Mx5 testdrive accident
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Actually cannot take it anymore. stop bashing the MX5!. Its a very easy car to drive. And it IS very stable. Dun blame the car, blame other factors. I've driven an MX5 for 8 years - no worries on handling unless you turn the blind eye to foolishness.Originally posted by HENG@:wah u dunno ah. MX-5 can be considered very unstable.
Short wheelbase
Lightweight = less inertia
fairly powerful RWD in a lightweight car
need i say more?
Cars with 'standard steel' roofs can also get people killed in overturns. (I'll admit maybe less), but you gotta go, you gotta go. -
most car review will give the MX5 5 stars for its handling. without doubt a good car to drive.Originally posted by mx5owner:Actually cannot take it anymore. stop bashing the MX5!. Its a very easy car to drive. And it IS very stable. Dun blame the car, blame other factors. I've driven an MX5 for 8 years - no worries on handling unless you turn the blind eye to foolishness.
Cars with 'standard steel' roofs can also get people killed in overturns. (I'll admit maybe less), but you gotta go, you gotta go. -
We are discussing about the probability for an MX-5 to flip. Due to its weight, it does not need to travel very fast in order to flip. The probability of an S-class to get flipped to the other lane is significantly lower than the Mazda considering the weight of both cars.
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Erm .. Ah Heng said the MX5 handles very well, but the price to pay is stability. I think this is not hard to understand at all.Originally posted by mx5owner:Actually cannot take it anymore. stop bashing the MX5!. Its a very easy car to drive. And it IS very stable. Dun blame the car, blame other factors. I've driven an MX5 for 8 years - no worries on handling unless you turn the blind eye to foolishness.
Cars with 'standard steel' roofs can also get people killed in overturns. (I'll admit maybe less), but you gotta go, you gotta go. -
from what i heard, he is suicidal now. On sedatives and needs to be watched over and what not.Originally posted by chikopek:If I am the driver I think I might commit suicide.
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i have to ask u, stable as compared to? are u talking about an abitary judgement, or an absolute judgement on a scale?Originally posted by mx5owner:Actually cannot take it anymore. stop bashing the MX5!. Its a very easy car to drive. And it IS very stable. Dun blame the car, blame other factors. I've driven an MX5 for 8 years - no worries on handling unless you turn the blind eye to foolishness.
Cars with 'standard steel' roofs can also get people killed in overturns. (I'll admit maybe less), but you gotta go, you gotta go.
i mean, u might feel it is stable but thats because u don't yank the wheel like a madman around a lot?
Im sorry but in accidents, the car will often BE a factor as well.
speaking of tin toppers, anyone remember that incident in hongkong where an AE101 with a sunroof overturned, and the driver or front passenger(can't remb which) got flung such that half the head was out of the sunroof when the car landed on its top and slid along the road? The top half of the head got grounded off. -
once again, stability do not = handling.Originally posted by Gazelle:most car review will give the MX5 5 stars for its handling. without doubt a good car to drive.
and like I just said, mx5owner said its stable, but based on his own feeling? or an absolute scale?
Stable I know would be like a Mercedes E-Klass. A long time ago when I was still a fool on the road, I threw it into a U-turn MUCH too fast and all it did was understeer a bit, scrub off speed, and then make the U-turn. I shudder to think if I attempted the same in a MX5, or a Peugeot 206 or any car with a shortwheelbase and a light curbweight. -
Heng, nothing against you really, just want to clarify:Originally posted by HENG@:once again, stability do not = handling.
and like I just said, mx5owner said its stable, but based on his own feeling? or an absolute scale?
Stable I know would be like a Mercedes E-Klass. A long time ago when I was still a fool on the road, I threw it into a U-turn MUCH too fast and all it did was understeer a bit, scrub off speed, and then make the U-turn. I shudder to think if I attempted the same in a MX5, or a Peugeot 206 or any car with a shortwheelbase and a light curbweight.
Stability can equal handling (if its not stable, how can it handle). Hmm, how do you measure stability on an absolute scale? Sure its subjective till we all go for a drive and sit down over coffee and discuss the drive experience.
I have done what what u did in the merc with the mx5 many times- same results as yours - car shdders in understeer, back off, and back to u-ey turn. Cars do not flip or overturn unless you hit something like a kerb. Sure they will skid/slide, any car will do that.
Cars with short w-b and lightness, then the mini/sub-compacts of <1000-1300cc will have the same effect of 'weight-lessness', with tires that lasts... now these are scary cars to fool around in.
I've had a couple of spin-outs at PG in an MX5 at 140kmph in semi-wet/dry conditions: a sign of instability due to its lightweight? - no!.... just applying/releasing the gas at wrong times. This will happen to any RWD, even FWD if its fast enough.
Anyway... its just that i'm an MX5 fan, and just wanted to give the MX5 a chance in terms of what it can really do. Sure, i agree on less overhead protection - a price to pay for that kind of roll-over fear. Even SUV's roll over too ( classic case of 'stable' but cannot handle.) Rex's are stable.. and can handle too, right?
Its about road conditions and the experience to do the right thing on the road.
No flames pls... just defending a cute little nice car (that some pple do not understand) that is getting bad press. -
Quite agree.. then a mini-sub-compact cars are more likely to do the flip too when hitting the kerbs.... relative to the speeds they were travelling at before such an incident.Originally posted by philia:We are discussing about the probability for an MX-5 to flip. Due to its weight, it does not need to travel very fast in order to flip. The probability of an S-class to get flipped to the other lane is significantly lower than the Mazda considering the weight of both cars.
Cars of any nature, in relative to the speed and angle of approach, do not flip, overturn, unless it hits something in its way, eg a kerb.
So the lesson here, anyone wanna do something foolish... do it on an open road space, with no kerbs, like the track, to truly test a car at 110%.. else back off on our public roads. -
I think the fella should stand out and make a public apology. That's a decent thing to do....
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he hiding somewhere lah, begging desperately for his rich daddy and mummy to engage a good lawyer to mitigate his sins..Originally posted by qooorange:I think the fella should stand out and make a public apology. That's a decent thing to do.... -
why need to beg? i'm sure philia wld b happy to represent him. amelican english leh. tok very loud one. wu sia wu sng, bo sia bo sng pattern. im sure philia can make a good dfence attorney !!Originally posted by Edgar_Davids:he hiding somewhere lah, begging desperately for his rich daddy and mummy to engage a good lawyer to mitigate his sins..Originally posted by philia:He was not even speeding to begin with. -
Ah but I have to disagree with your view. 1stly, any car expert will tell u that some stability will have to be sacrificed for a car to handle. How would an MX5's stability compare to say a Merc S class?Originally posted by mx5owner:Heng, nothing against you really, just want to clarify:
Stability can equal handling (if its not stable, how can it handle). Hmm, how do you measure stability on an absolute scale? Sure its subjective till we all go for a drive and sit down over coffee and discuss the drive experience.
I have done what what u did in the merc with the mx5 many times- same results as yours - car shdders in understeer, back off, and back to u-ey turn. Cars do not flip or overturn unless you hit something like a kerb. Sure they will skid/slide, any car will do that.
Cars with short w-b and lightness, then the mini/sub-compacts of <1000-1300cc will have the same effect of 'weight-lessness', with tires that lasts... now these are scary cars to fool around in.
I've had a couple of spin-outs at PG in an MX5 at 140kmph in semi-wet/dry conditions: a sign of instability due to its lightweight? - no!.... just applying/releasing the gas at wrong times. This will happen to any RWD, even FWD if its fast enough.
Anyway... its just that i'm an MX5 fan, and just wanted to give the MX5 a chance in terms of what it can really do. Sure, i agree on less overhead protection - a price to pay for that kind of roll-over fear. Even SUV's roll over too ( classic case of 'stable' but cannot handle.) Rex's are stable.. and can handle too, right?
Its about road conditions and the experience to do the right thing on the road.
No flames pls... just defending a cute little nice car (that some pple do not understand) that is getting bad press.
Let me ask u. U say u have done the same thing I did many times. What speeds did u do them at? PM me on this. Not something we should be discussing openly.
2ndly stability in a car is also measure by how likely it is to spin when u make an error. Some cars are more forgiving, some cars less so. The fact is that an MX5 does need some familiarity with it. Granted, once u know the car, the drive is rewarding, no doubt. U have to be clear about this, we're discussing the characteristics of a car from an abstract point of view, and its impact on the cause of the accident. Nobody is blaming the car itself. I understand that as an MX5 owner u feela certain sense of pride about the car, but u have to be objective about things.
Anyways, since u're comparing a WRX, well honestly, a WRX understeers at 1st, until u can use the power to tease the rear out. Cars like the EVO n GT-R, depend heavily on electric trickery to affect their handling and stability. When we talk about cars which still depend heavily on mechanical ability alone for its handling, a car which handles is always less stable compared to 'normal' cars. Do note that we're not saying that everytime u step on the gas or turn the wheel the MX5 spins. No in this instance, if the stability of a normal family car is say, a 10, then an MX5 would be a 7.5 to 8. More care is required, but not to the extent that u have to slip it in neutral and let it roll along by itself.
Anyways, like I said, I speak from past experiences from racing. I know that if I want my vehicle to handle better, I have to sacrifice stability. This golden rule of thumb goes all the way up to even formula 1 cars. if its a car, it generally cannot escape this rule unless u have a car choke full of electronic wizardry. Thats why the really fast F1 drivers, are the ones who can cope with oversteer. An oversteery car allows them to turn in at a higher speed, sharper, faster, IF they can deal with the oversteer. Drivers like Michael Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen drives like this. Drivers like David Coulthard, Jenson Button, are fast drivers but they prefer stable cars, which is why they're quick, but not Kimi-quick. They depend on a smooth driving style to be fast because their car is more stable, but less responsive to handling inputs.
Since time immemorable, I've read about car magazine journos talking about the trade-off between handling and stability. Nothing escapes the golden rules of automotive engineering. -
Hmm.... is Heng part of your real name...... looks like we may know each other, at least by face, if not we may really know each other! Had spent some time on circuit/racing too as well, maybe not as much as u may have been (if you are who i think u are..?)
I know what you mean by compromise... more toe out at front to get the turn in... but straight-line is not the best casual drive.. or grooves on a concrete higway!
something to agree on? -
i doubt it. I did a different sort of racing I believe. I was doing some semi-pro racing in single seater machines. But yea. That grooves thing, u mean tramlining?Originally posted by mx5owner:Hmm.... is Heng part of your real name...... looks like we may know each other, at least by face, if not we may really know each other! Had spent some time on circuit/racing too as well, maybe not as much as u may have been (if you are who i think u are..?)
I know what you mean by compromise... more toe out at front to get the turn in... but straight-line is not the best casual drive.. or grooves on a concrete higway!
something to agree on?