Largest car maker
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Originally posted by mh2:
what u mean by different aims?? the aim is to increase efficiency in turn reducing emissions...its not about performance here that we're talking about...
you yourself said it.
may i ask : Is camshaft profiling and variable valve timing the SIMILAR technologies as you mention below??
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Originally posted by alleggerita:
x2
Hence it's very hard to tell which is better when the [b]similar technologies applied by BMW and Toyota are used to achieve different aims..
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that is correct....the intake camshaft becomes nothing more than an eccentric shaft which just spins and the valve lift is controlled by a external motor...sounds good in theory but trust me its not...Originally posted by alleggerita:You got research or not? VVT-i incorporates camshaft profiling and variable valve timing while nowadays BMW's engines have VANOS and Valvetronic combined in one engine..VANOS is camshaft profiling in BMW-speak and Valvetronic is variable valve timing in BMW-speak..
So isn't it considered "similar technologies"?
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Because BMW's VANOS and Valvetronic is tuned towards performance more isn't it? While Toyota's VVT-i is geared more towards good fuel economy. So considered different aims?Originally posted by AE86tofu:what u mean by different aims?? the aim is to increase efficiency in turn reducing emissions...its not about performance here that we're talking about...
Of course there are cases where Toyota's VVT-i gets geared towards performance. In the case of the TOYOTA 1.8-litre engine used by Lotus in their Elises. -
nope...for BMW they always prefer both...the the old E46M3 for example...How did i manage 9km/l for one week? and at the same time the engine can still churn out 330BHP?Originally posted by alleggerita:Because BMW's VANOS and Valvetronic is tuned towards performance more isn't it? While Toyota's VVT-i is geared more towards good fuel economy. So considered different aims?
Of course there are cases where Toyota's VVT-i gets geared towards performance. In the case of the TOYOTA 1.8-litre engine used by Lotus in their Elises. -
Wow! 9km/l?? Considered amazing!Originally posted by AE86tofu:nope...for BMW they always prefer both...the the old E46M3 for example...How did i manage 9km/l for one week? and at the same time the engine can still churn out 330BHP?
But I will still put this down to Conti cars generally more superior engineering compared to Japs or Korean or China cars. And I still believe BMW tuned it for a compromise between power and FC.
Talking about FC, my dad's Picanto recently emitted a weird 'flapping' noise. C&C said it's due to loose valve. They tightened it up for my dad. Prior to tightening it, FC was about 12km/l. After tightening the valve, not only is the weird sound gone, FC is now 14.1km/l!!
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Originally posted by AE86tofu:
what ? you own a fleet Of BMW? or are you selling BMW?
i bet u didnt know that our engines are made of magnesium no? and that we use fiber optics for our cars?[/b] -
i dont sell BMWs nor i own a fleet....i say "OUR" cos i'm working for BMW. stop picking on pointless details...Originally posted by mh2:what ? you own a fleet Of BMW? or are you selling BMW? -
LOL even the owner himself after i returned him the keys when he came back from his trip...he didnt believe the trip counterOriginally posted by alleggerita:Wow! 9km/l?? Considered amazing!
But I will still put this down to Conti cars generally more superior engineering compared to Japs or Korean or China cars. And I still believe BMW tuned it for a compromise between power and FC.
Talking about FC, my dad's Picanto recently emitted a weird 'flapping' noise. C&C said it's due to loose valve. They tightened it up for my dad. Prior to tightening it, FC was about 12km/l. After tightening the valve, not only is the weird sound gone, FC is now 14.1km/l!! -
then dun ansewr!Originally posted by AE86tofu:i dont sell BMWs nor i own a fleet....i say "OUR" cos i'm working for BMW. stop picking on pointless details... -
u asked a question so i gave u an asnwer....is there anything wrong with that?Originally posted by mh2:then dun ansewr! -
But there's something I'm very curious about..isn't magnesium extremely flammable? How can the whole engine block be made of magnesium? Or is it a magnesium alloy used? Or not the whole engine block is made of magnesium?Originally posted by AE86tofu:i bet u didnt know that our engines are made of magnesium no? and that we use fiber optics for our cars?
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magnesium alloy la..Originally posted by alleggerita:But there's something I'm very curious about..isn't magnesium extremely flammable? How can the whole engine block be made of magnesium? Or is it a magnesium alloy used? Or not the whole engine block is made of magnesium? if its pure magnesium itsd be too soft liao wad...and if kenna water.... -
Only drive it out when it's not raining..Originally posted by AE86tofu:magnesium alloy la.. if its pure magnesium itsd be too soft liao wad...and if kenna water....
If drive halfway rain, get out and run for your life.. -
I think u guys are abit... just abit out of topic here but still i see nice discussion and some nice 'arguement' here hehehehehe... i see that its true that toyota engine is tuned for low fuel consumption but yet there are alot toyota model engines still drink fuel like water. VVT-i is just the variable valve timing... so thats mean there is low and high profile. its just depends how the person tune or time on the ECU. Even altis can run fast if they change the cam rite. Pls dun compare toyota(VVT-i) to BMW(Vanos+valvetronic) coz thats heaven and earth. they are in the different class man~~!!!! No doubt that toyota is the world largest car maker nowdays but did u realise that ppl buy that car because of the name 'TOYOTA'. lately i realise that there are models of toyota is a total failure but yet still alot of ppl buy it. For example there toyota Vigo. I think its failure. No power, stability not good enuf, cabin space is not spacious enuf...... If compare to mitsui Triton, i think triton is far more better buy still lot of ppl buying toyota. How bout the altis, its not good enuf if compare to mitsui lancer. Camry???? how bout compare it with cefiro....Altezza??? tht car is totally.... haizzzzzzz ..... still the same old 3SGTE engine.... wht do u guys think....
No offend to all the toyota lovers... its just what i think...
Peace to all toyota fans...
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I would agree..I would say Toyota sacrificed too much while fighting their way to the top spot as the largest carmaker in the world..and I hate Toyota (and their dealer's) c0cky attitude..I dunno why, but Toyota just gives me an impression that they are c0cky..or maybe it's just me..Originally posted by jinxmy:I think u guys are abit... just abit out of topic here but still i see nice discussion and some nice 'arguement' here hehehehehe... i see that its true that toyota engine is tuned for low fuel consumption but yet there are alot toyota model engines still drink fuel like water. VVT-i is just the variable valve timing... so thats mean there is low and high profile. its just depends how the person tune or time on the ECU. Even altis can run fast if they change the cam rite. Pls dun compare toyota(VVT-i) to BMW(Vanos+valvetronic) coz thats heaven and earth. they are in the different class man~~!!!! No doubt that toyota is the world largest car maker nowdays but did u realise that ppl buy that car because of the name 'TOYOTA'. lately i realise that there are models of toyota is a total failure but yet still alot of ppl buy it. For example there toyota Vigo. I think its failure. No power, stability not good enuf, cabin space is not spacious enuf...... If compare to mitsui Triton, i think triton is far more better buy still lot of ppl buying toyota. How bout the altis, its not good enuf if compare to mitsui lancer. Camry???? how bout compare it with cefiro....Altezza??? tht car is totally.... haizzzzzzz ..... still the same old 3SGTE engine.... wht do u guys think....
No offend to all the toyota lovers... its just what i think...
Peace to all toyota fans...
People used to say Toyota has the best quality among other Jap brands, but it doesn't seems so..probably because most of the Toyotas from Borneo Motors are Made in Thailand..btu I've sat in the new Camry, Vios and Altis and I think quality ain't that great as before..or maybe Made in Japan ones are better.. -
there is no such thing as VVT-I running 2 cam profiles...the onyl valve technology to do that is Honda's Infamous VTEC....VVT-T works something like Vanos...Originally posted by jinxmy:I think u guys are abit... just abit out of topic here but still i see nice discussion and some nice 'arguement' here hehehehehe... i see that its true that toyota engine is tuned for low fuel consumption but yet there are alot toyota model engines still drink fuel like water. VVT-i is just the variable valve timing... so thats mean there is low and high profile. its just depends how the person tune or time on the ECU. Even altis can run fast if they change the cam rite. Pls dun compare toyota(VVT-i) to BMW(Vanos+valvetronic) coz thats heaven and earth. they are in the different class man~~!!!! No doubt that toyota is the world largest car maker nowdays but did u realise that ppl buy that car because of the name 'TOYOTA'. lately i realise that there are models of toyota is a total failure but yet still alot of ppl buy it. For example there toyota Vigo. I think its failure. No power, stability not good enuf, cabin space is not spacious enuf...... If compare to mitsui Triton, i think triton is far more better buy still lot of ppl buying toyota. How bout the altis, its not good enuf if compare to mitsui lancer. Camry???? how bout compare it with cefiro....Altezza??? tht car is totally.... haizzzzzzz ..... still the same old 3SGTE engine.... wht do u guys think....
No offend to all the toyota lovers... its just what i think...
Peace to all toyota fans... -
now u r talking,Originally posted by AE86tofu:there is no such thing as VVT-I running 2 cam profiles...the onyl valve technology to do that is Honda's Infamous VTEC....VVT-T works something like Vanos...
is it you who say vvti got 2 camshaft profile?? -
Why Honda's VTEC is "infamous"?Originally posted by AE86tofu:there is no such thing as VVT-I running 2 cam profiles...the onyl valve technology to do that is Honda's Infamous VTEC....VVT-T works something like Vanos...
Back then when FIA banned turbocharging for F1 cars, Honda created VTEC to act like a turbo and it gave Honda's F1 team an edge over the others until the others adopted Honda's technology too.. -
go and read properly...i didnt say that...i said that VVT-I and VTEC is totally different as VTEC Uses 2 cam profiles wheras VVTI only uses ONE....Originally posted by mh2:now u r talking,
is it you who say vvti got 2 camshaft profile?? -
is the impreza infamous...??? same thing same concept....Originally posted by alleggerita:Why Honda's VTEC is "infamous"?
juz like the impreza churning out STIs wannabes...
there are lotsa eg6s and ek9s wannabes last time??? thanks to the VTEC b16a and b16b engines.... -
vvti runs only 1 cam profile...????? are u sure of that???? i dun say that i gopt the rite defination but its 'variable valve timing' rite???? so how is the valve can move in variable timing if its not controlled by the camshaft??? i'm just wondering ... no offence ok...
bout the infamous honda... huh from what i experience .... honda engine is really great... dam great ... but its for N/A version .... ONLY~~!!! if u put a turbo into it... then tht engine would become wasted... not much power u can pull out with honda b16a b16b... but b18c can pull out alot power with turbo....
but anyhow... honda engines is great.... -
Originally posted by jinxmy:
VVT-i offered by Toyota only controls valve timing. There is no control over valve lift. So only one camshaft profile is needed. But for Honda's VTEC, it incorporates both valve timing and lift control, hence it has two cam profiles. The other cam profile kicks in at high rpm to lift the valve more.
vvti runs only 1 cam profile...????? are u sure of that???? i dun say that i gopt the rite defination but its '[b]variable valve timing' rite???? so how is the valve can move in variable timing if its not controlled by the camshaft??? i'm just wondering ... no offence ok...
bout the infamous honda... huh from what i experience .... honda engine is really great... dam great ... but its for N/A version .... ONLY~~!!! if u put a turbo into it... then tht engine would become wasted... not much power u can pull out with honda b16a b16b... but b18c can pull out alot power with turbo....
but anyhow... honda engines is great....[/b]
But Toyota's new VVTL-i incorporates valve lift control as well. So for the VVTL-i, there will be more than one cam profile. -
honda looks nicer somehow... whereas the new toyota vios is like... fking nice
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camshaft and variable lift not the same la,Originally posted by alleggerita:VVT-i offered by Toyota only controls valve timing. There is no control over valve lift. So only one camshaft profile is needed. But for Honda's VTEC, it incorporates both valve timing and lift control, hence it has two cam profiles. The other cam profile kicks in at high rpm to lift the valve more.
But Toyota's new VVTL-i incorporates valve lift control as well. So for the VVTL-i, there will be more than one cam profile.
u sound like V lift = another profile
read more. -
You should be the one Reading more?Originally posted by mh2:camshaft and variable lift not the same la,
u sound like V lift = another profile
read more.
How much the valve lifts is dependent on the lobes on the camshaft.