Why are cars in europe mostly manual
-
Just wondering... europe seems to have a high proportion of stick shift cars... esp places like italy...why ah?
-
manual gearbox have little power loss and automatic transmission can have power loss up to 20% when engine torque transmit to powertrain so its more sensible to use manual gearbox in hilly places
-
Perhaps has to do with extreme weather conditions - snow and ice so manual for better control? Cost of living in Europe very expensive so also to keep the costs down.
-
Originally posted by seyKai:
manual gearbox have little power loss and automatic transmission can have power loss up to 20% when engine torque transmit to powertrain so its more sensible to use manual gearbox in hilly places
Rubbish. Modern automatic transmissions like Porsche's PDK, SMG, DSG, SST,etc offer unparalled up and downshifting timing with minimal power loss. In fact, as compared to their manual counterparts, they offer better fuel consumption, faster 0-100 timings and higher top speeds, to name some advantages. I agree with purplejade that a major factor might be to keep costs down.
20% power loss? I wonder which century you are living in?
-
Originally posted by nightsky87:
Rubbish. Modern automatic transmissions like Porsche's PDK, SMG, DSG, SST,etc offer unparalled up and downshifting timing with minimal power loss. In fact, as compared to their manual counterparts, they offer better fuel consumption, faster 0-100 timings and higher top speeds, to name some advantages. I agree with purplejade that a major factor might be to keep costs down.
20% power loss? I wonder which century you are living in?
Second that,Even my auto 1.3 have better FC..Nowadays only auto gearbox that cost more to maintain than the manual one. -
Originally posted by nightsky87:
Rubbish. Modern automatic transmissions like Porsche's PDK, SMG, DSG, SST,etc offer unparalled up and downshifting timing with minimal power loss. In fact, as compared to their manual counterparts, they offer better fuel consumption, faster 0-100 timings and higher top speeds, to name some advantages. I agree with purplejade that a major factor might be to keep costs down.
20% power loss? I wonder which century you are living in?
That is for the rich people with good car.
The normal peasents have to deal with the power lost.
Seriously, Porsche?
-
Originally posted by skythewood:
That is for the rich people with good car.
The normal peasents have to deal with the power lost.
Seriously, Porsche?
? No lah, because TS mention Europe, so I was using the example of Conti cars, hence the PDK, SMG, DSG, etc etc..
Peasant like me don't even have car - so no power loss issues, any power loss is SBS Transit's issue not mine liao..
-
People in europe like classical things ma.
For example quartz watch is more accurate, maintainence free and cheap but they still die die use auto mechanical (more ex, need winding often)which they think is more attached to their soul...
-
Originally posted by nightsky87:
Rubbish. Modern automatic transmissions like Porsche's PDK, SMG, DSG, SST,etc offer unparalled up and downshifting timing with minimal power loss. In fact, as compared to their manual counterparts, they offer better fuel consumption, faster 0-100 timings and higher top speeds, to name some advantages. I agree with purplejade that a major factor might be to keep costs down.
20% power loss? I wonder which century you are living in?
do you know how a torque convertor works? -
Originally posted by seyKai:
do you know how a torque convertor works?Do you know that the dual clutch transmissions I have mentioned as examples above uses wet/dry multiple plate clutches/clutch packs instead of a torque converter?
-
tell me what are the cars that are using these clutch plates instead of a torque converter?
-
Mostly because an automatic transmission can still be pretty much rubbish in challenging conditions. For the average European driver this consists of several things virtually unknown in Singapore such as hilly terrain and snow. Controlling the torque with the clutch in situations like these is essential, something I couldn't live without.
In expensive cars there might be some decent semi-automatic ones as well, but even in many sports cars the manual one simply allows you go faster. Not just because you can change faster, but also because the gearbox itself is lighter which in turn improves pretty much everything in the car.
As for fully automatic I can't imagine a situation where I'd want one. It's for the lazy and the unskilled.
-
Originally posted by nightsky87:
Rubbish. Modern automatic transmissions like Porsche's PDK, SMG, DSG, SST,etc offer unparalled up and downshifting timing with minimal power loss. In fact, as compared to their manual counterparts, they offer better fuel consumption, faster 0-100 timings and higher top speeds, to name some advantages. I agree with purplejade that a major factor might be to keep costs down.
20% power loss? I wonder which century you are living in?
There's a stark difference between fully auto gearbox with manual overide and sequential manual gearbox. for BMW's SMG, its a sequential manual box with fully auto option. essentially, its a manual gearbox not unlike those found on motorbikes and F1 cars. just that it offers fully auto mode as an option with the computer taking over for gear shifting. the downside is that when in fully auto mode, there will be delay when it comes to shifting gears and shift shocks are very pronounced. most other auto gearboxes with +/- works just like a normal auto gearbox, just that it offers the driver with the option of shifting gears. they still have the traditional torque converter.
Volkswagen's DSG and Nissan's GR6 gearboxes are basically twin-clutches auto gearbox. it offers faster shift times mainly due to the dual clutches which engage the next gear even before the gear is selected.
its true that modern auto gearboxes offers better fuel economy, but that's only restricted to bigger engines. smaller engines with auto gearboxes generally consumes more fuel than manual ones. small cars like Honda Fit however manages to obtain excellent fuel economy is due to the fact that it uses a CVT gearbox.
power loss on an auto box can range from 5% to 15%, mainly due to the power sapping torque converter. and when it comes to maintenance, a manual box is far more easier to maintain than an auto box.
-
asian perception of auto/manual is luxury, non-luxury.
european perception is a lifestyle difference. whether or not you want good handling, or city driving. for big countries where travelling can take hours or even days, this is indeed a major consideration.
-
Originally posted by r34gtr:
its true that modern auto gearboxes offers better fuel economy, but that's only restricted to bigger engines. smaller engines with auto gearboxes generally consumes more fuel than manual ones. small cars like Honda Fit however manages to obtain excellent fuel economy is due to the fact that it uses a CVT gearbox.
power loss on an auto box can range from 5% to 15%, mainly due to the power sapping torque converter. and when it comes to maintenance, a manual box is far more easier to maintain than an auto box.
Why are modern auto gearboxes only restricted to bigger engines?
I seem to remember that the Golf /Jetta / Touran 1.4 has DSG as well. Well, then again if you think 1.4l is "big" and hence "deserves a modern gearbox", then I really don't know what you mean by "smaller engines" liao
-
is DSG classified as a automatic gearbox?
-
Because you find more real drivers in Europe.
-
Originally posted by seyKai:
is DSG classified as a automatic gearbox?
It all boils down to what's your definition of an automatic gearbox. If auto to you simply means the box will shift the gears for you, then yes, the DSG is an auto box. But a more accurate description of the DSG is: Automated clutch gearbox.
Many people take automatic gearbox as torque convertor. Hence it's all very confusing. Posh's PDK or VW's DSG can also be classified loosely as an auto gearbox because it can shift gears itself (depending on your definition of automatic gearboxes).
Alright, put it simply. There are 5 types of gearboxes. The good ol' manual gearbox with a clutch, an automated clutch gearbox (aka DSG, Selespeed, E-gear, etc), dual-clutch gearbox (aka DSG, PDK, etc), torque convertor gearbox (aka auto gearbox in most people's languages) and CVTs.
-
Originally posted by seyKai:
is DSG classified as a automatic gearbox?
DUH - Do you see cars with DSG having 3 foot operated pedals? I mean, DSG is obviously not a manual gearbox right? Anything that is not a manual is generally classfied as an automatic gearbox - that's where the name comes from - automatically changes the gears for you without the need for human intervention.
Then again, I don't really expect much from you - after all, you're the one who cannot differentiate a brake rotor and a brake disc, no?
-
Originally posted by nightsky87:Why are modern auto gearboxes only restricted to bigger engines?
I seem to remember that the Golf /Jetta / Touran 1.4 has DSG as well. Well, then again if you think 1.4l is "big" and hence "deserves a modern gearbox", then I really don't know what you mean by "smaller engines" liao
Agree with nightsky87. r34gtr sounded professional right until paragraph 3.
If auto gearbox paired with big engines = good FC and auto gearbox paired with small engines = shitty FC, then why the hell would Honda use the CVT on the Jazz last time and VW using it's DSG on some of it's 1.4 TSI models like the Golf 1.4 TSI?
It depends on what kind of auto gearboxes you're talking about man.
-
fuel eating la deh
-
wow... its been like so long since we had such intelligent discussions ard here... LOL
juz to add on.. the reason why CVT appears in so many small cars is due to the simple fact that the CVT gearbox can only tolerate up to a certain amount of torque...
-
And it's been a long time since i've last seen you n0x.
Added: The good ol' "mitsubishihater" days.
-
Originally posted by n0x:
wow... its been like so long since we had such intelligent discussions ard here... LOL
juz to add on.. the reason why CVT appears in so many small cars is due to the simple fact that the CVT gearbox can only tolerate up to a certain amount of torque...
Please don't mind if I refute that - the Lexus LS600 (520Nm) uses a CVT, while the LS460 (500Nm) uses the Lexus 8-speed automatic. Then again, it could be because the 600 is AWD while the 460 is RWD.
-
Originally posted by nightsky87:
Please don't mind if I refute that - the Lexus LS600 (520Nm) uses a CVT, while the LS460 (500Nm) uses the Lexus 8-speed automatic. Then again, it could be because the 600 is AWD while the 460 is RWD.
But AWD or not, all 500Nm is still going through the CVT.
