Singapore cracks down on anime piracy
-
darkmirage posted a thread at EDMW @HWZ asking people to take part in this survey. i participated.Originally posted by MohamedF:BTW, results from a 48hr online survey...
http://survey.darkmirage.com/
a substantial 59.6% of respondents have declared they will NEVER support Odex
81.8% have a "from bad to worse" impression on Odex
and 70.1% have bought anime DVD by first being exposed to fansubs
but the results seems contradicting, 81.8% have a "from bad to worse" impression on Odex but only 59.6% of respondents declared they will NEVER support Odex.
-
hmmm.. i dun really say that is contradicting, though they get a worse impression doesnt mean they stop buying right? Since it is cheap and such.Originally posted by Gordonator:darkmirage posted a thread at EDMW @HWZ asking people to take part in this survey. i participated.
but the results seems contradicting, 81.8% have a "from bad to worse" impression on Odex but only 59.6% of respondents declared they will NEVER support Odex. 
-
me. all my xbox 360 games are original. but 1 is 2nd hand (cheaper but mint condition), the other is $10 (cos of some shell escape points thing that can be used to pay for the other $60)Originally posted by duotiga83:you don't get the picture...i am not saying abt SONY....i am saying abt GAME DEVELOPERS
i am using the same logic reasoning from you also.......tell me for console games who will buy ORIGINAL GAMES in SG?
i personnally do......
the other 3 came with the console when i bought it as part of a package. yea. -
EVEN then i won't buy their anime. at least now i know i can turn to bluemax and poh kim.Originally posted by ditzy:hanor, if odex really wanna stop something, they should go after the subbers instead. No subbers, no fansubs, no freeloaders.
here's a true story.. my fren ask me watch dunno wad anime last time, i watched fansubs for free. after that i went to the shop to find the anime in dvd but dont have. only got vcd. i wanted to buy it but the english written on the box was quite terrible and i tot it was like pirated. after that i dont want to buy already. i just download n keep the fansub.
next i watched chobits last year on fansub. i realli liked it. i wanted to buy the dvd also. but can't find. so i went online and i wanted to buy it. but then i checked with MDA about censorship thing n buying dvds from overseas they said customs might confiscate.. then i was worried i wont get it =( and nobody could advise me otherwise so i couldn't buy it. i'm still hoping to get an original chobits dvd series every episode. i have the money prepared. but there's no where that i can buy from with confidence. =( can someone tell me where to buy from? and no i'm not buying from odex if they DO have chobits - although i think they dont have.
and odex if u're reading this: yes, i watched the anime and i want to buy the dvd AFTER watching fansub. although i dont think u care much.
ok so can anyone tell me where to get chobits and (maybe) school rumble on original dvds? region 1 or anywhere as long as its good quality jap audio and eng sub..
website or addresses in singapore will b v much appreciated thank u =) -
I think as long as you're not buying hentai or porn it should be ok. I received my DVDs from amazon.com without any problems last Friday. Notice the yellow ICA inspection sticker on the box. So yes, they do check your packages.Originally posted by Vigelic:i wanted to buy the dvd also. but can't find. so i went online and i wanted to buy it. but then i checked with MDA about censorship thing n buying dvds from overseas they said customs might confiscate.. then i was worried i wont get it =( and nobody could advise me otherwise so i couldn't buy it. i'm still hoping to get an original chobits dvd series every episode. i have the money prepared. but there's no where that i can buy from with confidence. =( can someone tell me where to buy from? and no i'm not buying from odex if they DO have chobits - although i think they dont have.
[/color]
-
Seen like there is Odex spy in here. Anyway, Odex try to patch their public image after all this chaos. Can only fail if someone can feature the tales of their victims to air on public. Especially so if the 9 year old kid. People tent to pitty them.
This probably make their principles' or any anime studios think twice of giving them the next lisence.
I know I am bad but looking at the whole saga. Is hard to support them. -
I dont support odex. I dont remember myself proclaiming "ODEX IS RIGHT!"Originally posted by Father Lim:why sad?? after reading all your posts, i still do not understand why do you support ODEX... i can accept arguments that downloads are illegal and wrong...
I can accept arguments that we should support original products... after it's the right thing to do...
BUT what I cannot understand is that after all the things being published by the media, their director being smug that he had sued the pants off some kids, producing low quality products, never finish their products, YOU are still supporting ODEX...
since u were given a letter, was it part of the terms of your settlement that u have to defend ODEX... seriously, you are the only person on thsi forum who still supports what ODEX is doing....
Another question i would like to ask: how many ODEX products have you bought so far??
Infact in DM's survey, the option i choose was "from bad to worse"
The thing i wanna bring across is, hardcore freeloaders deserve it. And many of these self claim anime fans in sg happen to fall within this catergory.
Thats all.
And from many of the forumnites post.
Apparently you guys feel that "freeloading" is correct. And it perfectly alright to dl without paying.
And this entire saga is blantanly odex fault due to their bad subs and bad vid quality.
Which is something i strongly dis-agree.
Part of the fault goes to the freeloading community as well.
Dont want to say liao.
Different point of view. Later flame war come.
Cheers. -
hmm but i mostly watch those anime without much fighting one.. then like even fruit basket odex claimed that mda did not allow the subbing to talk abt guy-guy interest..Originally posted by av98m:I think as long as you're not buying hentai or porn it should be ok. I received my DVDs from amazon.com without any problems last Friday. Notice the yellow ICA inspection sticker on the box. So yes, they do check your packages.
and even chobits i think 1st episode dunno mda will allow a not.. -_-
i scared waste money. nvm i try and buy. heh amazon.com right? =D ty!
anywhere else i can get them?
oh and my fren told me j-list.com got sell anime dvds.. but how to tell which one is hentai which one is not? -_- like hard to tell lei
EDIT: ok i went to amazon.com and searched for school rumble.. but very confusing..
last time school rumble already aired 26 episodes with ova 2 episodes right? then according to wikipedia "FUNimation Entertainment recently announced at Fanime Con that the first volume and starter box set will be released on August 21, 2007."
what is starter box set? first volume = 1st episode or 1st few episodes?
also there is "16 Used & new" means wad? means some of the products is 2nd hand on amazon.com? -
http://www.odex.com.sg/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97
If they know there will be no profits, why do they have to demand $3k - $5k of settlement fees in the 1st place?
Originally Posted by xysing
I think I should put up something here to tell a bit of our side of the story, all these had been communicated one way or another to the press.
First, the double-six issue.
Now, that is entirely my fault, and it has nothing to do with Odex as a whole. In hindsight I admit that it was a flippant remark, and could have been more sensitive about it. But it was never intentional, nor meant to offend anybody, the last thing I'd think of doing is to alienate myself with our potential customers. But enough had been said about this.
The 9-year old kid.
I've received his parent's consent to release the terms. (Please note that we cannot do so without his agreement, that is a privacy issue). His appeal to the copyright holders was based upon age and low income family with all documents furnished and accepted. The final amount was S$600 to be paid over 12 months, and the parents paid up one shot. The case was resolved in July.
The charity issue.
The original message to the press was : We will invite or engage a reputable auditor to audit our accounts pertaining to the collection and costs of this excercise. If (note the word IF) there is any profit, we will donate all of them to a charitable cause.
Now if you ask me, I'm absolutely confident that there will be NO PROFIT. But the only way to show the public this is to have an audit so as to prove our motive and transparency. If we are to be found that there is a profit, then we should not take that money, it's that simple actually.
Traditionally piracy issues tackle distribution entites - shut down the local pirate shop and you resolved much of the problem. BitTorrent changes that completely. Downloaders and filesharers no longer need to go anywhere physically to pick up something. Yes, you can say it is all "non-profit", but while you're downloading you're uploading too - what gives you the rights to give somebody else something that you did not own? What gives you the rights to get something that you didn't pay for - anime is a business production, the anime studio has a rights to demand payment for it - and that should be respected. By taking them just off the net willfully, you've basically throw the respect of copyright aside, and justifying it to say that it is for the "greater good". The greater good of who? Certainly not the anime studios or the animators in Japan.
The so called merchandising benefit only applies to a very minor sector of anime - no doubt that they are usually the most advertised, or the most well-known. But the majority of anime in Japan doesn't have a merchandising potential that is bigger than TV/DVD sales, and those titles, and therefore their studios, suffer because of illegal filesharing. We've talked to all of them, they told us. Have you talked to them?
(o.o)y
Originally Posted by xysing
But with so much publicity now, it is difficult for me to be convinced that somebody who is still downloading NOW is unaware that filesharing is illegal.
So if the individual is still doing so, what choice do we have except to take stern actions against him.
However, for all who are willing to respect the Anime studio's rights to survive, please stop illegal filesharing now. There will be no backlog letters.
There is really no point arguing about quality, speed, availability and so on, the fundamental is the same - illegal filesharing is infringing the intellectual property rights of the copyright holders. And no one is going to dispute that it is wrong. Judge Ernest said that, Andy Ho said that, everybody said that. So even if Odex is restricted by the technicalities of the Singapore law to help the copyright holders, that is not going to change a thing, the copyright holders will do it themselves if need be.
(o.o) -
No backlog letters will be sent.
No one will receive any more letters dated after August who addresses illegal filesharing with dated evidence.
Let me put it in a very clear and straightforward release to avoid any misunderstanding then.
If an individual stop downloading now, today, on the 3rd September, 2007, he will have no possibility of ever receiving any letters from the copyright holders, (aka the Odex letter) as we will not take anything that he has downloaded before this date against him. We will not send any letters to him.
If an individual continues to download and shows up on our investigation we will send him a letter to ask him to explain why it is so. If he cannot give us a reasonable explanation of why that happened, we will reserve the rights to take legal action against him, with all the evidences that we have collected before and after the 3rd of September (there would necessarily be evidence after the 3rd in order for this to happen).
If you have any friends who still do not know the danger of filesharing, please let them know. Filesharing is illegal and it infringes the intellectual property of the copyright holders. Please do not download.
(o.o)Those letters whom have already been sent out, were sent out, not too sure about the date but it is definitely at least 3 weeks ago, those who should have received the letters, should have already received them. Barring super-delayed letters (because many of them has not yet got back to us, so we must assume that some have not collected the letters)
A better explanation will be :
Those who have STOPPED downloading after the date of Sep 03 will not get any letters from us.
(o.o)yThe current excercise has already been executed, and the costs incurred. No one can turn back time.
If one stops downloading now, we will be giving the individual the chance to do what is right, and prioritze our actions on people who are still downloading despite all these publicity.
I don't see the reason why an individual should only stop downloading because they know that we are not going to send them any letters, that is so besides the case. Illegal filesharing is a crime in Singapore, and the fact that we will or will not send any letters to anyone shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the individual want or do not want to stop downloading. With all the news that we're getting now, I think a typical law-abiding Singaporean should already know that filesharing/downloading is illegal, since, through all the articles available out there, the only single constant fact is that downloading is illegal in Singapore.
But yes, if Mr A stops downloading today, he will not be receiving any letters from us.
(o.o)Yes, the current group of PACNET users will not be receiving letters from us.
(o.o) -
What's lost is lost.
And I am still not entirely convinced of the larger picture behind the small issue of illegal downloading.
The fact remains that Japanese law constrains these very same studios from proceeding with such actions in Singapore, back home in Japan.
I do not wish to see Singapore being made into a precedent case in an era where customer protection and privacy has been diluted and greater , perhaps too much protection has been afforded to the corporate sector, leading to possible unnatural weightage given to legal interpretations on their side. -
I feel that the more Odex tried to explain, more lies are coming out. SS keep harping on downloading is wrong, which I guess for the past few weeks, we had already know about it. But he still refuse the address the other problems such as bad subtitling.
And for him to said that all of those on his OWN forum, I cant see why I should believe it. -
Because that's the only line they have left.Originally posted by tortoise55:I feel that the more Odex tried to explain, more lies are coming out. SS keep harping on downloading is wrong, which I guess for the past few weeks, we had already know about it. But he still refuse the address the other problems such as bad subtitling.
And for him to said that all of those on his OWN forum, I cant see why I should believe it. -
Instead of tackling the root causes of downloading (limited availability, relatively high cost, poor image quality, poor subtitling), Odex chose to go after the downloaders instead. Before they started all this crap, did they ever stop to ask themselves: 'WHY are the people downloading? Could it be that our products are not satisfying the customers?'Originally posted by tortoise55:I feel that the more Odex tried to explain, more lies are coming out. SS keep harping on downloading is wrong, which I guess for the past few weeks, we had already know about it. But he still refuse the address the other problems such as bad subtitling.
And for him to said that all of those on his OWN forum, I cant see why I should believe it.
They could have just gone out to do market research. And surely, with enough objective and honest research (surveys, interviews with Otakus, etc), the root causes can be identified and subsequently addressed.
Instead what do they do? They sit in their ivory towers and keep telling themselves that they weren't doing anything wrong. And when they do admit to their mistakes, they try to deflect it away from them.
I still refuse to accept the 'double-6' incident as a 'PR disaster', for, as I've mentioned before, 'it was a PR disaster' translates as 'We said things that others didn't want to hear, and we're sorry for that'. That, to me, is not the same as a full and unreserved apology.
And deflecting the problem of poor subtitling to the MDA.... that's pure hogwash. Then in that case my younger cousin should blame Cambridge if he doesn't do well for his O Level English, for he's not allowed to write about explicit sex scenes in his composition. Never mind about his bad grammar.
Pfft... 'nuff said. I will never support Odex products at all.
One of the cardinal rules of marketing:
'You need to work twice as hard and spend twice as much to woo a customer whom you have lost compared to trying to keep the customer.'
So if they go bust.... they should look to themselves before blaming others. -
Well, the damage has been done, even if we are not the first country to use laws to help the corporate sector.Originally posted by LazerLordz:What's lost is lost.
And I am still not entirely convinced of the larger picture behind the small issue of illegal downloading.
The fact remains that Japanese law constrains these very same studios from proceeding with such actions in Singapore, back home in Japan.
I do not wish to see Singapore being made into a precedent case in an era where customer protection and privacy has been diluted and greater , perhaps too much protection has been afforded to the corporate sector, leading to possible unnatural weightage given to legal interpretations on their side. -
Why the white flag ? Only when worms are starting to be uncovered...Originally posted by tortoise55:I feel that the more Odex tried to explain, more lies are coming out. SS keep harping on downloading is wrong, which I guess for the past few weeks, we had already know about it. But he still refuse the address the other problems such as bad subtitling.
And for him to said that all of those on his OWN forum, I cant see why I should believe it.
One has to ponder, is he hiding something greater ? -
The tone has changed.. even the diction and the words used.Originally posted by Sagara:Why the white flag ? Only when worms are starting to be uncovered...
One has to ponder, is he hiding something greater ?
A marked difference in speech patterns too..
Seems nervous to me.. -
*takes oreo cookies and watches show*
-
One's speech pattern won't change for no reason... it's their way of writing and speaking. If you ask me, I would think someone has been framed along the process... although I'm not entirely sure. What I know for sure is the way of writing and speaking won't change, even if it does, it's not much, so it's pretty recognizable.
-
Er, no point in arguing about those? but that's the WHOLE point why people prefer fansub - or even imported DVDs compared to ODEX dvds!Originally posted by tortoise55:http://www.odex.com.sg/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97
There is really no point arguing about quality, speed, availability and so on, the fundamental is the same - illegal filesharing is infringing the intellectual property rights of the copyright holders. And no one is going to dispute that it is wrong. Judge Ernest said that, Andy Ho said that, everybody said that. So even if Odex is restricted by the technicalities of the Singapore law to help the copyright holders, that is not going to change a thing, the copyright holders will do it themselves if need be. -
Someone has problems with comprehension lah.Originally posted by Vigelic:Er, no point in arguing about those? but that's the WHOLE point why people prefer fansub - or even imported DVDs compared to ODEX dvds! -
if we can't download anime, we still can watch them using YouTube. & u can even download YouTube videos.
enrealite.blogspot.com/2007/07/how-to-download-youtube-videos.html
enrealite.blogspot.com/2007/07/faster-way-to-download-youtube-videos.html -
leopard cannot change its spot
-
Wrong, because fansub is FREE!Originally posted by Vigelic:Er, no point in arguing about those? but that's the WHOLE point why people prefer fansub - or even imported DVDs compared to ODEX dvds! -
download manga not illegal right?