[Archive] Questions on MRT/LRT

• jerryonhere

  2 Jan 10, 20:15

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Ok, then if non peak hour, is it that 2 trains coupled together all go back depot to decouple and one of them come out? (Or there is 2 sets of trains, 1 of them is non coupled and the other is coupled train, thus in peak hours coupled train is shown or else they are hidden in depot)

  Might be...
  
  Is there any coupling rules for that (I.e: 110 must coupled with 111 and not 119)

  Nope, there aren't any coupling rules. They will couple any train available.

   See answer in quote

• E5

  2 Jan 10, 20:30

  Actually, platform 2 is used for passenger service too in morning and evening peak hour and on some rare occassion, non-peak hour. And to add, DNB train does not neccessary use platform 2, it can also use platform 1 too.

  Coupling and decoupling is done in the depot. Here's a timeline to show what's happening in the depot;

  Train couple together
  Goes to the track right outside Ten Miles for standby
  Commence revenue service at BP station
  Continue service until times up
  Upon receving signal/code to return back to depot, two scenario will occur;

  A: Train will make last trip to CCK station, before returning back to depot as a DNB train
  B: Train will make last trip to BP towards CCK, before returning back to depot as a DNB train

  Again, back in the depot, 2 scenario will occur;

  A: Train will be decoupled in depot, with one of the train getting ready for revenue service
  B: Train will either decouple or 'leave as it is' and 'sleep' in depot till needed

  To jayh272416,
  The purpose of the 2-car train is to increase passengers service per train. It does improve frequency by "a bit". But as there's only 19 cars available, coupling all train into 2-car is not a solution. So the following is their solution during peak hour according to the commuters demand;

  In morning peak - Most 2-car train run on Service B
  In evening peak - Most 2-car train run on Service A

  Just as an additional information, in the early days of LRT operation, there's 2 set of 2-car trains running on service C, but due to the lack of demand over time, this has been reduced to 1 set of 1-car train on service C. And to add, the LRT in the past is "fast" and riding on it was like riding a roller coaster. I still remember passengers screaming when the train accelerate to a speed faster than the current one upon exiting BP station running on Service A.

  Lastly, the way the system works currently is "not-so-effiecient" as each train have a headway of 1 station (Exception to this is BP and CCK station, where train will stop right before the station; distance is about 6-LRT-car length).

• Bus and Train LoVuR

  2 Jan 10, 20:36

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Ok, then if non peak hour, is it that 2 trains coupled together all go back depot to decouple and one of them come out? (Or there is 2 sets of trains, 1 of them is non coupled and the other is coupled train, thus in peak hours coupled train is shown or else they are hidden in depot)
  
  
  Is there any coupling rules for that (I.e: 110 must coupled with 111 and not 119)

  Don't neded to follow MRT , must be 109/110. Can couple with any train. (Like 101 with 111.)

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 21:01

  Originally posted by E5:

   

  In morning peak - Most 2-car train run on Service B
  In evening peak - Most 2-car train run on Service C

  Most 2 car train run on Service C ?
  
  Should it be A?

• E5

  2 Jan 10, 21:23

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Most 2 car train run on Service C ?
  
  Should it be A?

  
  Opps a typo mistake. Post has been edited. Thanks for pointing out.

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 21:30

  Thanks to everyone who have replied my question, do you stay (near) there to have so much info. I today managed to went there which therefore arouse my curiosity.

   

  If anybody managed to have a video of coupling / decoupling of trains will be better.

• nganmatthias

  2 Jan 10, 21:50

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Funny you leh, people want to get destination fast so they take trains, and you expect the train drive slow slow, how slow do you want? 10kmh? or 20kmh?

  
  Nowadays the drivers drive faster even if the entire train is jerking wildly.

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 21:50

  Another question:

   

  1: On various Schemantic diagram on various lines / extensions, such as one for DTL, I saw some "PG intake". What does it means??
  
  

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 21:54

  Originally posted by nganmatthias:

  
  Nowadays the drivers drive faster even if the entire train is jerking wildly.

  Almost forgot, how come jerking is more frequent when raining, I know it is in CM mode but sometimes it is really close to the station and I remembered that it already has a gap of 2mins or more liao. So why stop under CM mode and make it more jerky.

• willis_chong

  2 Jan 10, 21:58

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Almost forgot, how come jerking is more frequent when raining, I know it is in CM mode but sometimes it is really close to the station and I remembered that it already has a gap of 2mins or more liao. So why stop under CM mode and make it more jerky.

  It's wheelslip.

• nganmatthias

  2 Jan 10, 22:02

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Almost forgot, how come jerking is more frequent when raining, I know it is in CM mode but sometimes it is really close to the station and I remembered that it already has a gap of 2mins or more liao. So why stop under CM mode and make it more jerky.

  
  BTW yesterday when 123/124 was in CM Mode the train was still speeding.

• E5

  2 Jan 10, 22:20

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Thanks to everyone who have replied my question, do you stay (near) there to have so much info. I today managed to went there which therefore arouse my curiosity.

   

  If anybody managed to have a video of coupling / decoupling of trains will be better.

  Not possible, because the depot is a restricted area. Now, please don't try to snuck into the train to enter the depot or enter it through any means, as it will land you in to some serious trouble. If you're curious about any train related stuffs, ask here, don't tresspass or 'peform stunts'.

  Originally posted by nganmatthias:

  
  Nowadays the drivers drive faster even if the entire train is jerking wildly.

  Do you mean at curve? If you mean jerk at curves, it's because the operator is pushing the train very hard on curves and the more violent the left-right jerk, the more the train is closer to derailment.

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Almost forgot, how come jerking is more frequent when raining, I know it is in CM mode but sometimes it is really close to the station and I remembered that it already has a gap of 2mins or more liao. So why stop under CM mode and make it more jerky.

  Like what willis had pointed out, the train wheel is slipping or in "free-roll". As train wheels does not have "threads" like cars do, the drainage of water out between the wheel and rail is not very good, which will cause a layer of water to accumulate between the train wheels and rail, which in turn cause the train to slip. The only way to prevent jerks during raining is to accelerate and brake more gently. But this comes with a downside, train will be late and commuting time between station will take tremendously long and not to mention the risk of overrun. So this is something unavoidable if one wants a balance between schedule accuracy and comfort. You will know why when you drive a train yourself(Please do so ONLY WITH A LEGAL REASON).

  Originally posted by nganmatthias:

  
  BTW yesterday when 123/124 was in CM Mode the train was still speeding.

  Just as a correction, in our system, TO cannot perform 'speeding' on train. Doing so means breaking the speed limit define by ATC & ATP in a particular section which in turn means, ATP will overrule ATO, ATC , TO's control and bringing the train to a complete halt using EB (4.5km/h/s). In Japan however, this is possible on the ATS system. For example;

  Sectional limit: 120km/h
  Train actual speed: 125km/h

  When this happens, train stills moves as usual with no brakes applied and "stunts" like this can be seen during morning peak, where diagrams (timetable schedules) are congested and 'speeding' is needed to regain the time lost. But one cannot 'speed' it's way by breaking signals, as the train will brake according depending on the signal limits.

• jerryonhere

  2 Jan 10, 22:44

  Originally posted by E5:

  Not possible, because the depot is a restricted area. Now, please don't try to snuck into the train to enter the depot or enter it through any means, as it will land you in to some serious trouble. If you're curious about any train related stuffs, ask here, don't tresspass or 'peform stunts'.

  You can see the depot at Ten Mile Junction station, though trains only pass by.

• E5

  2 Jan 10, 22:52

  Originally posted by jerryonhere:

  You can see the depot at Ten Mile Junction station, though trains only pass by.

  
  I know. Just explaining that it's almost impossible to see LRT train couple and decouple with your own eyes without being inside in the depot. Thanks for the mention anyway.

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 23:03

  Thanks everyone, what I can say is that

   

  1) Enter depot of LRT is more dangerous than MRT (Surprisingly) as conducted by my preliminary studies. So the chance is next to nil. (Even though now I know how to emergency open BPLRT door, but SKLRT / PGLRT does not seemed to have)

   

  2) CM a train? No, please no, that will = fine of $50000 and jail 6 months or both. Repeat offenders fine $5000. Now, unless I am PM's who but no, no, so no intention of doing so.

• Interception_7

  2 Jan 10, 23:48

  Originally posted by willis_chong:

  It's wheelslip.

  Ask you guys, you think SMRT Trains got sanding anot?

   

  So if got wheelslip how?

  When driving in rain conditions, let say, he put to Notch 2, and got wheelslip... You knw SMRT trains got no sanding feature, so they will just put back to Notch 0, and will increase slow and steadily.. Until the jerk is gone, since the train has pick up speed...

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 23:55

  Wow, this kind of thing really hard to describe in few sentences, then in order to be TO of any train system (MRT / LRT, dont care SBST or SMRT), do I need driving license?

• Samuel Lee

  2 Jan 10, 23:56

  Originally posted by Interception_7:

  Ask you guys, you think SMRT Trains got sanding anot?

   

  So if got wheelslip how?

  When driving in rain conditions, let say, he put to Notch 2, and got wheelslip... You knw SMRT trains got no sanding feature, so they will just put back to Notch 0, and will increase slow and steadily.. Until the jerk is gone, since the train has pick up speed...

  Anyway, i never heard of singapore mrt got sanding.

   

  So basically the jerking idea is this:
  
  If there is a baby cry (In MRT case, is a wheel slip) , I (As parent, in MRT case, a TO) do nothing to it and let it cry until enough (In MRT case, TO give no accleration at all to "waste" the extra energy by the slipping wheels) to solve the issue? I have heard of it in M$ Train Simulator and for that, the train ended up hard to move / acclerate and sanding is one of the solution.

• Interception_7

  3 Jan 10, 00:08

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Anyway, i never heard of singapore mrt got sanding.

   

  So basically the jerking idea is this:
  
  If there is a baby cry (In MRT case, is a wheel slip) , I (As parent, in MRT case, a TO) do nothing to it and let it cry until enough (In MRT case, TO give no accleration at all to "waste" the extra energy by the slipping wheels) to solve the issue? I have heard of it in M$ Train Simulator and for that, the train ended up hard to move / acclerate and sanding is one of the solution.

  Sort of, let say I left YWT in CM mode, heavy rain. So I start the train by putting to P1.. Then to P2.. And when it is in P2, it started to slip, so I will put it back to P1 or Coasting..Then afterthat will pick up speed.. Cause when you put power, the wheel wants to spin faster, but since metal + metal contact, and got water, sure wheel slip.. Then if you put back to coast, the wheel will move freely according to what the speed is..

• jerryonhere

  3 Jan 10, 08:52

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Thanks to everyone who have replied my question, do you stay (near) there to have so much info. I today managed to went there which therefore arouse my curiosity.

   

  If anybody managed to have a video of coupling / decoupling of trains will be better.

  I do stay near the BPLRT....When I'm bored I always spot LRT trains. That's why I have much info.

• Veyron16.4

  3 Jan 10, 11:26

  In which month do the C651s go for refurbishment?

• NickL_C151

  3 Jan 10, 11:48

  Originally posted by Veyron16.4:

  In which month do the C651s go for refurbishment?

  No news has been released yet. And before we start, I would like to appeal to all members not to speculate the dates, STARIS installation, ads, etc.

• Interception_7

  3 Jan 10, 11:58

  Originally posted by NickL_C151:

  No news has been released yet. And before we start, I would like to appeal to all members not to speculate the dates, STARIS installation, ads, etc.

  If want to speculate, must have a source! And also cross-reference. :P

• Samuel Lee

  4 Jan 10, 10:27

  Originally posted by Interception_7:

  If want to speculate, must have a source! And also cross-reference. :P

  Even though Wikipedia says somewhere this year is possible for refurbishment of C651, here is why NOT:

   

  1: It was only reported that the earliest possible date / year of refurbishing C651s is in 2010. This certainly does not equate to it must be (starting to) refurbished in 2010.

  2: C151 trains are refurbished only on 2007 - 2008 (Depending on batch)

  3: C151 trains started serving between 1987 to 1988 (Depending on batch) while C651 serve at 1994. There is a gap of 7 years.

  4: No message on refurbishment on C651 is made as to date.

  5: Just a year to go and we will have C151A trains, a brand new trains in PRC.

  With the above 5 reasons, I think that C651 will be refurbished, but at least 3 to 5 years away from now. (To make it closer to gap of 7 years, 3 years is given that the train is the most problematic ones and 5 years is for the normal ones)

   

• wenjie639

  4 Jan 10, 17:00

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Even though Wikipedia says somewhere this year is possible for refurbishment of C651, here is why NOT:

   

  1: It was only reported that the earliest possible date / year of refurbishing C651s is in 2010. This certainly does not equate to it must be (starting to) refurbished in 2010.

  2: C151 trains are refurbished only on 2007 - 2008 (Depending on batch)

  3: C151 trains started serving between 1987 to 1988 (Depending on batch) while C651 serve at 1994. There is a gap of 7 years.

  4: No message on refurbishment on C651 is made as to date.

  5: Just a year to go and we will have C151A trains, a brand new trains in PRC.

  With the above 5 reasons, I think that C651 will be refurbished, but at least 3 to 5 years away from now. (To make it closer to gap of 7 years, 3 years is given that the train is the most problematic ones and 5 years is for the normal ones)

   

  In 2007, the News paper(forgotton which one) states that "After the Generation 1 MRT Trains refurbishment, Generation 2 MRT Trains will be refurbished by 2010." and, i do not know is this true ornot.