[Archive] Questions on MRT/LRT
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How many YWT and YIS peak hour trains are there per day?
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Originally posted by Kawasaki C751B:
How many YWT and YIS peak hour trains are there per day?
For YWT , 3 trains but 7 trips.
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How many YIS peak hour trains per day?
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Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:
For YWT , 3 trains but 7 trips.
6 trips, each train does 2 rounds.
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Originally posted by Kawasaki C751B:
How many YIS peak hour trains per day?
How'd we know? They don't post about YIS peak hour trains.
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
I see, so basically the signalling & electricity collection must be the same, hence although the train in EWL / NSL can fit into NEL / CCL / DTL (After completeion) and vice versa but it cant move because
1: If they fit into NEL, the signalling & electricity collection is different and not compatible
2: If they fit into CCL/DTL then because the automatic lines (CBTC) is not compatible with traditional ATC, so even the trains did received the power it can move dangerously (Manual operation) or none (Automatic part)
Thus, to go either completely by either system, I am curious if
A: Is it possible that the lines have 2 signalling systems and 2 electricity collection (Such that eg: NEL has both CTBC and ATC for power collection as well as using both overhead cables and 3rd rail -- then the EWL / NSL trains can go into Sengkang in theory)
PS: I dont ask just for the sake of ask, this has curioused me by the fact that they are all standard gauges and seemed to me like it can fit and go.
Yes to both of your question but you do need to take note of one very important point;
Cross section. This is the most important point if you want train collecting electricity using third rail collection method and overhead collection method to run on all lines, If you realized, NEL has a tunnel which is more thin but "taller" to cater to the storage of the wires while CCL, NSL, EWL and the upcoming DTL will have a wider but "shorter" tunnel to cater to the storage of the third rail. Since the initial design of the tunnels and tracks is not designed to have a train collecting electricity from third rail to run on NEL, the tunnel may not be wide enough for the third rail to fit in and also, the tunnel in CCL, NSL, EWL and DTL may not be "tall" enough for the overhead wires and it's equipments to fit in. Not to forget the the pantograph or the "shoe" of the train may hit part of the tunnel/platform due to protruding parts.
This problem can be overcome, but at a great cost.
Originally posted by joeyfjj:
Yes. =D'Having two different gauges is possible like this:
As for having both ATC and CBTC, it should be possible, but I'm not sure...
Two different power collection method using the same tracks is not usually possible, as the current is not the same - if the OHLE is 25 kHz AC, but the third rail is 750 volts DC, it may lead to some nasty results...
It is possible to have a train to operate using both ATC and CBTC on it's respective lines, like ATC on NSL and EWL and CBTC on NEL and CCL.
An example will be the Tokyu Toyoko Line. Originally, the line runs on a ATS system. But due to the ever increasing passengers demands, Tokyu have to increase the frequency of the trains to a point where it's almost a job impossible (Yes, the driver is extremely stress during morning rush hour, where leeway for each train is at it's minimal). So until a point when they realized that simply adding more trains into the timetable could not solve the problem and in fact, make it worst, they began to research and develop a new signalling system for the line, which is the current CS-ATC.
Of course, the change wasn't a immediate change to the whole line, portion of the lines were gradually converted from ATS to CS-ATC. So there was this time, where the ATS section of the line is from Sakuragicho to Kikuna and the CS-ATC section of the line is from Kikuna to Shibuya. So what happen is that the the driver will operate the train in ATS mode from Sakuragicho to Kikuna. At Kikuna, the driver will deactivate the ATS mode and activate the CS-ATC mode. From Kikuna all the way to Shibuya, the driver operates the train in CS-ATC mode.
Originally posted by NickL_C151:For the trains, so far there are none to my knowledge yet. However, it is possible to electrify a track with both catenary wires and third rail to cater to different EMUs. I think it's easier for me to illustrate in example for you:
Imagine if NEL has both catenary wires and third rail. Ignoring the signalling system, I put a C151 on the line there, with a C715A behind. The C151 uses it's shoe to pick up electricity from the third rail and run. The C751A uses the pantograph to pick up electricity from the catenary wires and run also.
This example is also used in London, but I forgot which line(s).
This is a good idea but do remember that coupling of train during operation will interfere with the emergency exits at the ends of the train, unless the end sections of each train are coupled in such a way that it's connected along with a gangway to allow passengers in one train to travel from one train to another. A good example will be the E259 on the Narita Express.
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:A video that also has 2 different guages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ON3Zu1UOM
From 0:00 to 0:53 , on the extreme left.
Good finding over here! For those interested, this video was taken from Kanazawa Hakkei to Kanazawa Bunko. The person who took the video was on a 4-car Limited Express train bound for Haneda Airport. Somewhere between these two station, a 8-car Rapid Limited Express bound for Shinagawa or beyond overtook the train the owner was in. After the 8-car train arrives in Kanazawa Bunko, the 4-car train was given the signal to proceed and couple with the 8-car train, forming a 12-car train and this 12-car train will travel from Kanazawa Bunko to Keikyu Kawasaki as a Rapid Limited Express before being decoupled at Keikyu Kawasaki, where the first 8-car will travel towards Shinagawa and the last 4-car will travel towards Haneda Airport.
As a additional information, the situation Kanazawa Bunko station during morning rush hour ("7am~9am") is pretty "chaotic" as train arrives and depart at frequency of 1~3mins, not to mention that some train needs to be coupled at the station to cater to the morning rush hour crowd and trains crossing over from depot over to the "holding area". And due to the tight nature of the timetable, the distance separating between two trains is as close as 1.5metre and you can have up to 3 train bunching up behind, though they are cleared within 2~3mins most of the time.
Once again, my apologies for such a lengthy post but hope that I've at least answered part of your queries.
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i watched a video of 319/320 at tanah merah off service after the last train to changi airport had left, why is it that i hear something like a train going towards joo koon opening its door?
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Originally posted by Khairiano:
trains running main line (EWLNSL) use pnuematics... it use air presure.. while C751A and C380 use gear..That explain the door open sound different?
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Originally posted by E5:
Yes to both of your question but you do need to take note of one very important point;
Cross section. This is the most important point if you want train collecting electricity using third rail collection method and overhead collection method to run on all lines, If you realized, NEL has a tunnel which is more thin but "taller" to cater to the storage of the wires while CCL, NSL, EWL and the upcoming DTL will have a wider but "shorter" tunnel to cater to the storage of the third rail. Since the initial design of the tunnels and tracks is not designed to have a train collecting electricity from third rail to run on NEL, the tunnel may not be wide enough for the third rail to fit in and also, the tunnel in CCL, NSL, EWL and DTL may not be "tall" enough for the overhead wires and it's equipments to fit in. Not to forget the the pantograph or the "shoe" of the train may hit part of the tunnel/platform due to protruding parts.
This problem can be overcome, but at a great cost.
It is possible to have a train to operate using both ATC and CBTC on it's respective lines, like ATC on NSL and EWL and CBTC on NEL and CCL.
An example will be the Tokyu Toyoko Line. Originally, the line runs on a ATS system. But due to the ever increasing passengers demands, Tokyu have to increase the frequency of the trains to a point where it's almost a job impossible (Yes, the driver is extremely stress during morning rush hour, where leeway for each train is at it's minimal). So until a point when they realized that simply adding more trains into the timetable could not solve the problem and in fact, make it worst, they began to research and develop a new signalling system for the line, which is the current CS-ATC.
Of course, the change wasn't a immediate change to the whole line, portion of the lines were gradually converted from ATS to CS-ATC. So there was this time, where the ATS section of the line is from Sakuragicho to Kikuna and the CS-ATC section of the line is from Kikuna to Shibuya. So what happen is that the the driver will operate the train in ATS mode from Sakuragicho to Kikuna. At Kikuna, the driver will deactivate the ATS mode and activate the CS-ATC mode. From Kikuna all the way to Shibuya, the driver operates the train in CS-ATC mode.
This is a good idea but do remember that coupling of train during operation will interfere with the emergency exits at the ends of the train, unless the end sections of each train are coupled in such a way that it's connected along with a gangway to allow passengers in one train to travel from one train to another. A good example will be the E259 on the Narita Express.
Good finding over here! For those interested, this video was taken from Kanazawa Hakkei to Kanazawa Bunko. The person who took the video was on a 4-car Limited Express train bound for Haneda Airport. Somewhere between these two station, a 8-car Rapid Limited Express bound for Shinagawa or beyond overtook the train the owner was in. After the 8-car train arrives in Kanazawa Bunko, the 4-car train was given the signal to proceed and couple with the 8-car train, forming a 12-car train and this 12-car train will travel from Kanazawa Bunko to Keikyu Kawasaki as a Rapid Limited Express before being decoupled at Keikyu Kawasaki, where the first 8-car will travel towards Shinagawa and the last 4-car will travel towards Haneda Airport.
As a additional information, the situation Kanazawa Bunko station during morning rush hour ("7am~9am") is pretty "chaotic" as train arrives and depart at frequency of 1~3mins, not to mention that some train needs to be coupled at the station to cater to the morning rush hour crowd and trains crossing over from depot over to the "holding area". And due to the tight nature of the timetable, the distance separating between two trains is as close as 1.5metre and you can have up to 3 train bunching up behind, though they are cleared within 2~3mins most of the time.
Once again, my apologies for such a lengthy post but hope that I've at least answered part of your queries.
Thanks, I dont mind such long post with useful details.
But I would like to clarify 2 doubts:
1: Does your cross section refers to crossovers/ TBS and all sorts of "funny" track alignments (Such that to accomodate 2 power systems got bigger difficuilty compared to usual areas) or the power collection have to split into 2 parts (So one for overhead, the other for 3rd rail), and the concern on the tunnel's nature.
2: How long does the coupling take and wont the passengers feel awkard, suddenly feel a bump or sort of. --- This make me thought of 2 BPLRT trains kena crashed by back- front style in Phoenix.
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Originally posted by E5:
Good finding over here! For those interested, this video was taken from Kanazawa Hakkei to Kanazawa Bunko. The person who took the video was on a 4-car Limited Express train bound for Haneda Airport. Somewhere between these two station, a 8-car Rapid Limited Express bound for Shinagawa or beyond overtook the train the owner was in. After the 8-car train arrives in Kanazawa Bunko, the 4-car train was given the signal to proceed and couple with the 8-car train, forming a 12-car train and this 12-car train will travel from Kanazawa Bunko to Keikyu Kawasaki as a Rapid Limited Express before being decoupled at Keikyu Kawasaki, where the first 8-car will travel towards Shinagawa and the last 4-car will travel towards Haneda Airport.
As a additional information, the situation Kanazawa Bunko station during morning rush hour ("7am~9am") is pretty "chaotic" as train arrives and depart at frequency of 1~3mins, not to mention that some train needs to be coupled at the station to cater to the morning rush hour crowd and trains crossing over from depot over to the "holding area". And due to the tight nature of the timetable, the distance separating between two trains is as close as 1.5metre and you can have up to 3 train bunching up behind, though they are cleared within 2~3mins most of the time.
Once again, my apologies for such a lengthy post but hope that I've at least answered part of your queries.
Thanks for the explaination!
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
Thanks, I dont mind such long post with useful details.
But I would like to clarify 2 doubts:
1: Does your cross section refers to crossovers/ TBS and all sorts of "funny" track alignments (Such that to accomodate 2 power systems got bigger difficuilty compared to usual areas) or the power collection have to split into 2 parts (So one for overhead, the other for 3rd rail), and the concern on the tunnel's nature.
2: How long does the coupling take and wont the passengers feel awkard, suddenly feel a bump or sort of. --- This make me thought of 2 BPLRT trains kena crashed by back- front style in Phoenix.
1: Cross section in this case refers to the dimension of the tunnel/infrastructure such as maximum width, maximum height etc. As the 0, 200, 300 and 8000 series have "shoes" at the side of the bogies for electricity collection, some "extra space" is needed to ensure that the shoe won't be broken off by the wall/obstacles halfway during the journey and likewise, as the 70000 series have pantographs on the train for electricity collection, some "extra space" is needed to ensure that the pantograph won't be broken off by the roof/obstacles halfway through the journey.
So in order to counter this problem, an infrastructure upgrade is neccessary such as increasing the maximum width/height of the tunnel/infrastructure. But since upgrading everything is darn expensive, it's best to convert all lines to use only one electricity collection method for resource conservation purposes. Having multiple electricity can be done but it'll be extremely expensive to develop, build and mantain.
2. A picture speaks a thousand words, a video shows a thousand pictures. So, I am going to show you 3 videos of train coupling in service. Do have patience and watch all 3 videos. ><
Coupling of Keikyu 2100 Series and N1000 Series at Kanazawa Bunko Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezPcuaZ8Mo
Do take a peek at the seats of the first 8-car train and you'll realized something about the seats. And no, you don't have to pay extra fares to sit in that train.Detailed Coupling of Keikyu 2100 Series and N1000 Series at Kanazawa Bunko Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGQarLdO4iECoupling of E259 at Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcPmg5-0JQBy the way, these are world class standard, don't you agree? Comparing their system to ours, what are your says?
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Originally posted by E5:
1: Cross section in this case refers to the dimension of the tunnel/infrastructure such as maximum width, maximum height etc. As the 0, 200, 300 and 8000 series have "shoes" at the side of the bogies for electricity collection, some "extra space" is needed to ensure that the shoe won't be broken off by the wall/obstacles halfway during the journey and likewise, as the 70000 series have pantographs on the train for electricity collection, some "extra space" is needed to ensure that the pantograph won't be broken off by the roof/obstacles halfway through the journey.
So in order to counter this problem, an infrastructure upgrade is neccessary such as increasing the maximum width/height of the tunnel/infrastructure. But since upgrading everything is darn expensive, it's best to convert all lines to use only one electricity collection method for resource conservation purposes. Having multiple electricity can be done but it'll be extremely expensive to develop, build and mantain.
2. A picture speaks a thousand words, a video shows a thousand pictures. So, I am going to show you 3 videos of train coupling in service. Do have patience and watch all 3 videos. ><
Coupling of Keikyu 2100 Series and N1000 Series at Kanazawa Bunko Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezPcuaZ8Mo
Do take a peek at the seats of the first 8-car train and you'll realized something about the seats. And no, you don't have to pay extra fares to sit in that train.Detailed Coupling of Keikyu 2100 Series and N1000 Series at Kanazawa Bunko Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGQarLdO4iECoupling of E259 at Station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcPmg5-0JQBy the way, these are world class standard, don't you agree? Comparing their system to ours, what are your says?
Is it both trains on P4 or only the 2100 series on P4?
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Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:
Is it both trains on P4 or only the 2100 series on P4?
Which both train? the 4-car train has been travelling on P2 max due to signal restriction (40km/h) and the 8-car train is sprinting using P5 (110km/h~120km/h). Of course as usual, B1 is used before a completed stop. During coupling, only P1, B1, B2 and B3 is used.
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why must the train blare its horn for a full 3 to 5 seconds when leaving the station with passengers inside???
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Where is the train's traction system located at?
What is the weight of the motor of C151 , C651 and C751B?
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What is the series of the C151 train in Japan?
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Originally posted by E5:
C751A - 70000 series
C751B - 300 seriesOpps, before I forget, so actually while the contract numbers are similar, the series number are quite different, and isnt that the train carriage numbers?
So I am asking was the peroid of awarding the contract to respective tenders are the same, that is why they have a contract number of C751.
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Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:
Where is the train's traction system located at?
What is the weight of the motor of C151 , C651 and C751B?
Train traction system are normally located directly underneath the motor car between the bogies. From what I've observed, motor car nomally weigh 6~10 tonnes heavier than trailer car.
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:What is the series of the C151 train in Japan?
æ�±äº¬ãƒ¡ãƒˆãƒ03ç³» (日比谷線) - Tokyo Metro 03 Series (Hibiya Line)
æ�±äº¬ãƒ¡ãƒˆãƒ05ç³» (æ�±è¥¿ç·š) - Tokyo Metro 05 Series (East-West Line)Do note that only the first batch of the 05 series uses the same motor as the 0 series.
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:Opps, before I forget, so actually while the contract numbers are similar, the series number are quite different, and isnt that the train carriage numbers?
So I am asking was the peroid of awarding the contract to respective tenders are the same, that is why they have a contract number of C751.
Yeah, it's the japanese style of train identification convention. I am not really sure about how they derive the contract number though. Just like C151 for the 0 series and the C151A for the upcoming new train, the gap between these two contract are about 20 years.
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Originally posted by sinicker:
why must the train blare its horn for a full 3 to 5 seconds when leaving the station with passengers inside???
The horn is the TO pressing it.
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Originally posted by E5:
æ�±äº¬ãƒ¡ãƒˆãƒ03ç³» (日比谷線) - Tokyo Metro 03 Series (Hibiya Line)
æ�±äº¬ãƒ¡ãƒˆãƒ05ç³» (æ�±è¥¿ç·š) - Tokyo Metro 05 Series (East-West Line)Do note that only the first batch of the 05 series uses the same motor as the 0 series.
Is it all the 03 series(Hibiya Line) have the 0 series(SG) motor?
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Anyone who knows Japanese. What's this video about? Why always got horn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2QXefcQk8
Video info : http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/owner_train
自分ã�Œä»Šã�¾ã�§å‹•ç”»ã‚’æ’®ã�£ã�¦ã��ã�Ÿä¸ã�§ã€�è¦ç¬›ã�Œå…¥ã�£ã�Ÿãƒ¢ãƒŽã� ã�‘を集ã‚�ã�Ÿå‹•ç”»ã�§ã�™ã€‚
近鉄も入ã�£ã�¦ã�¾ã�™ã�Œã€�ã��ã‚Œã�¯ä¸å¤®ç·šã�¤ã�ªã�Œã‚Šã�¨ã�„ã�†ã�“ã�¨ã�§ãƒ»ãƒ»ãƒ»ã€‚ -
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:
Is it all the 03 series(Hibiya Line) have the 0 series(SG) motor?
Should be if I am not wrong, though there's some slight differences.
Originally posted by Bus and Train LoVuR:Anyone who knows Japanese. What's this video about? Why always got horn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2QXefcQk8
Video info : http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/owner_train
自分ã�Œä»Šã�¾ã�§å‹•ç”»ã‚’æ’®ã�£ã�¦ã��ã�Ÿä¸ã�§ã€�è¦ç¬›ã�Œå…¥ã�£ã�Ÿãƒ¢ãƒŽã� ã�‘を集ã‚�ã�Ÿå‹•ç”»ã�§ã�™ã€‚
近鉄も入ã�£ã�¦ã�¾ã�™ã�Œã€�ã��ã‚Œã�¯ä¸å¤®ç·šã�¤ã�ªã�Œã‚Šã�¨ã�„ã�†ã�“ã�¨ã�§ãƒ»ãƒ»ãƒ»ã€‚It's a video containing a collection of Osaka Municipal Subway train horning. Horn are usually sound when train is entering station at high speed, passing by station, passengers getting too close to the edge of the platform, near level crossing, another train is right infront etc.
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Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
That explain the door open sound different?
yes..
Train doors of 2 main lines use air pressure as you can hear "pssst" or "phiuu" while C751A and C830 you cant hear the air sound and it close like the HHPSDs...
This is how i know what machanisimn (dunno how to spell) of the door they use..
C151, C651 and C751B when the door close, try to "tahan" the doors for 15 sec with your hands.. when you letting go, you can see the doors close very fast like violent door..
wherebout C751A and C830 try "tahan" and let got for 15 sec.. the door still can be clos but no violent or normal.. it slows like PSD..
tahan any of train doors and HHPSDs at Pasir Ris.. and you can see the difference..
GUYS PLEASE DO NOT TRY IT! I DON'T WANT ANY OF YOU GET CAUGHT BY THE STAFF! I'VE TRIED IT BEFORE BUT LUCKILY I DIDN'T GET CAUGHT. SO DON'T TRY TO TAHAN THE TRAIN DOORS! -
Originally posted by Khairiano:
yes..
Train doors of 2 main lines use air pressure as you can hear "pssst" or "phiuu" while C751A and C830 you cant hear the air sound and it close like the HHPSDs...
This is how i know what machanisimn (dunno how to spell) of the door they use..
C151, C651 and C751B when the door close, try to "tahan" the doors for 15 sec with your hands.. when you letting go, you can see the doors close very fast like violent door..
wherebout C751A and C830 try "tahan" and let got for 15 sec.. the door still can be clos but no violent or normal.. it slows like PSD..
tahan any of train doors and HHPSDs at Pasir Ris.. and you can see the difference..
GUYS PLEASE DO NOT TRY IT! I DON'T WANT ANY OF YOU GET CAUGHT BY THE STAFF! I'VE TRIED IT BEFORE BUT LUCKILY I DIDN'T GET CAUGHT. SO DON'T TRY TO TAHAN THE TRAIN DOORS!Mechanism. =D
I thought the doors will detect your hand blocking it and open again? Like the BPLRT CX-100s?
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Try at dover better la. Let yr shirt stuck between the door. Good luck mate. HAHA.
If anyone of you kena before, confirm you know why..