[Archive] Questions on MRT/LRT

• Samuel Lee

  27 Jun 10, 22:27

  Originally posted by SmRtFrEaks:

  today 029/030 accelerates at p1 speed at every station..was pretty slow?? is there a timetable for the TO to follow or is the train at AM mode??

  Yes, the TO had their timetable to follow. But under most circumstances, TO dont CM just because they are early for the schedule.

• SBS9231S

  27 Jun 10, 22:50

  Originally posted by SmRtFrEaks:

  today 029/030 accelerates at p1 speed at every station..was pretty slow?? is there a timetable for the TO to follow or is the train at AM mode??

  097/098 Also Like that yesterday. but i think it was because when train accer, Whole Train jerk Backwards

• Din89

  29 Jun 10, 10:50

  Wat is p1??

• Interception_7

  29 Jun 10, 19:00

  Originally posted by Din89:

  Wat is p1??

  P = Power

  Power 1, means the throttle is set to level 1, the lowest speed.

  It can also mean Notch 1.

• Yongjunzer

  1 Jul 10, 22:01

  for crossover trains from nsl to ewl,is it the first 3  that crossover terminates its service at upd?

• jcqh

  4 Jul 10, 20:36

  Originally posted by Yongjunzer:

  for crossover trains from nsl to ewl,is it the first 3  that crossover terminates its service at upd?

  Mon to Thurs

  101 - continues
  102 - UPD
  103 - UPD

  Fri

  101 - UPD
  102 - continues
  103 - UPD

• Yongjunzer

  4 Jul 10, 20:41

  Originally posted by jcqh:

  Mon to Thurs

  101 - continues
  102 - UPD
  103 - UPD

  Fri

  101 - UPD
  102 - continues
  103 - UPD

  
  continues that means  what?

   

• willis_chong

  4 Jul 10, 21:39

  Originally posted by Yongjunzer:

  
  continues that means  what?

   

  means the train continue its journey without terminating in the middle of the line.

• Yongjunzer

  5 Jul 10, 12:20

  Originally posted by willis_chong:

  means the train continue its journey without terminating in the middle of the line.

  
   terminating at ulu pandan will crossover to pasir ris and then back too joo koon before terminating at upd?

• Din89

  9 Jul 10, 17:16

  Hey,wat is inside the suitcase-like bag TOs always carry on their hands??

• Interception_7

  9 Jul 10, 21:48

  Originally posted by Din89:

  Hey,wat is inside the suitcase-like bag TOs always carry on their hands??

  If I am not wrong.. It contains items like

  Train time table, Portable receiver set (Walkie-talkies), Hand signal lamp etc.. There are still more though but I did not manage to find out..

• Fryderyk HPH

  10 Jul 10, 18:54

  I don't know if others have asked this question, but I have a genuine question to ask the local train enthusiasts.

   

  I have no clue about this, but in other countries, trains are coupled, decoupled, and multi-coupled(terminalogy for multi-coupled only used for Europe). On SMRT and SBST lines, what is the max number of units that can be couple together(obviously not for standard commuter use, but for instance in a breakdown one can be coupled with another). What is the max number of sets of trains possibly coupled together? 2(12cars) or 3(18cars)?

   

  I know for a fact one disadvantage about using DC power is that for a section of rails, not too many trains can operate(otherwise there will be a power surge). So there should be a limit for this(2 or 3) right?

   

  Also, is it possible to couple different trainsets(C151 with C751/651) and operate under special circumstances? Or is it limited in that sense to only one type of trainset? While the coupling mechanism might be the same, is there also any limitation pertaining to different TCAS systems?

• LHDW

  10 Jul 10, 22:53

  Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:

  I don't know if others have asked this question, but I have a genuine question to ask the local train enthusiasts.

   

  I have no clue about this, but in other countries, trains are coupled, decoupled, and multi-coupled(terminalogy for multi-coupled only used for Europe). On SMRT and SBST lines, what is the max number of units that can be couple together(obviously not for standard commuter use, but for instance in a breakdown one can be coupled with another). What is the max number of sets of trains possibly coupled together? 2(12cars) or 3(18cars)?

   

  I know for a fact one disadvantage about using DC power is that for a section of rails, not too many trains can operate(otherwise there will be a power surge). So there should be a limit for this(2 or 3) right?

   

  Also, is it possible to couple different trainsets(C151 with C751/651) and operate under special circumstances? Or is it limited in that sense to only one type of trainset? While the coupling mechanism might be the same, is there also any limitation pertaining to different TCAS systems?

  Recently a C151 breakdown caused it to be coupled with a C751B. Basically the C751B is just dragging the C151.

• Dragonaxe

  10 Jul 10, 23:05

  Originally posted by LHDW:

  Recently a C151 breakdown caused it to be coupled with a C751B. Basically the C751B is just dragging the C151.

  Trainset number?

• Dragonaxe

  10 Jul 10, 23:15

  Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:

  I don't know if others have asked this question, but I have a genuine question to ask the local train enthusiasts.

   

  I have no clue about this, but in other countries, trains are coupled, decoupled, and multi-coupled(terminalogy for multi-coupled only used for Europe). On SMRT and SBST lines, what is the max number of units that can be couple together(obviously not for standard commuter use, but for instance in a breakdown one can be coupled with another). What is the max number of sets of trains possibly coupled together? 2(12cars) or 3(18cars)?

   

  I know for a fact one disadvantage about using DC power is that for a section of rails, not too many trains can operate(otherwise there will be a power surge). So there should be a limit for this(2 or 3) right?

   

  Also, is it possible to couple different trainsets(C151 with C751/651) and operate under special circumstances? Or is it limited in that sense to only one type of trainset? While the coupling mechanism might be the same, is there also any limitation pertaining to different TCAS systems?

  Only 2 can be coupled. If you are going to couple 3, it can only travel less than 30km/h due the weight its dragging. If you couple 3 trainsets together, you are going to ask the first train to be dragging 435.6 tons of weight ( excluding the train itself ). Power is not a problem because its using the first train motors only. The 2nd train is being "towed" to depot. If you have at least 3 or more than that, it may cause a power surge as more power is required to drag the faulty trains behind.

   

  It is possible to couple a C151 with a C651, a C651 with a C751B and a C151 with a C751B. Given that SMRT programmed the motors to have a downgradeable code to match the older train. But I dobut that SMRT has done that. 

  There is no TCAS danger when you miscouple a different type of trainsets together. Since that the signalling codes are still the same. (If not how they run on the same line?).

  The signalling is still the same no matter what you couple with. If you couple a C151 with a C751A, then the C151 can run at full speed but the C751A can only run in RM (15km/h and below). 

  C751As use CBTC for signalling but NSL/EWL uses the traditional ATS system. The C751A can RECEIVE the code but it CANNOT read the code. Vice versa if a C151 on NEL. 

   

• Interception_7

  11 Jul 10, 01:37

  Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:

  I don't know if others have asked this question, but I have a genuine question to ask the local train enthusiasts.

   

  I have no clue about this, but in other countries, trains are coupled, decoupled, and multi-coupled(terminalogy for multi-coupled only used for Europe). On SMRT and SBST lines, what is the max number of units that can be couple together(obviously not for standard commuter use, but for instance in a breakdown one can be coupled with another). What is the max number of sets of trains possibly coupled together? 2(12cars) or 3(18cars)?

   

  I know for a fact one disadvantage about using DC power is that for a section of rails, not too many trains can operate(otherwise there will be a power surge). So there should be a limit for this(2 or 3) right?

   

  Also, is it possible to couple different trainsets(C151 with C751/651) and operate under special circumstances? Or is it limited in that sense to only one type of trainset? While the coupling mechanism might be the same, is there also any limitation pertaining to different TCAS systems?

  There has been a case of a C151 that brokedown and coupled with a C151 before, 2-4 years back. 12 cars should be the maximum number of sets coupled together.
  
  Before a train rescue were to take place, 12-car operation (when one 6-car train immobalised) will only take place after complete coupling had been done. This will then allow the brakes to be released on the defective train. In a 12-car operation, only the resuce train controls the traction, but not brake applications on defective 6-car set. There will always be a brake application (parking brakes) on the defective train, in case the 'train breaks away' or pre-mature coupling.
  
  It is possible to a certain extent perhaps. Technically speaking, in terms of dimensions of each carriage, the height and width are the same, which makes it possible to be coupled together. However, their traction system differs, which, I think may affect the operation of the trains. I will try to dig out some more information if I manage to.

   *1 EMU set unit comprised of 1 DT- 1 M1 - 1 M2.
  A train-set comprises 2 EMU set units.
  
  C151 sets could be worked with C151 sets only.
  
  C151 EMU set could not be worked with C651 or C751B sets.

• LHDW

  11 Jul 10, 16:50

  Originally posted by Dragonaxe:

  Trainset number?

  http://mlrts.sgforums.com/forums/2080/topics/370454?page=36

• Fryderyk HPH

  13 Jul 10, 10:58

  Originally posted by Dragonaxe:

  Only 2 can be coupled. If you are going to couple 3, it can only travel less than 30km/h due the weight its dragging. If you couple 3 trainsets together, you are going to ask the first train to be dragging 435.6 tons of weight ( excluding the train itself ). Power is not a problem because its using the first train motors only. The 2nd train is being "towed" to depot. If you have at least 3 or more than that, it may cause a power surge as more power is required to drag the faulty trains behind.

   

  It is possible to couple a C151 with a C651, a C651 with a C751B and a C151 with a C751B. Given that SMRT programmed the motors to have a downgradeable code to match the older train. But I dobut that SMRT has done that. 

  There is no TCAS danger when you miscouple a different type of trainsets together. Since that the signalling codes are still the same. (If not how they run on the same line?).

  The signalling is still the same no matter what you couple with. If you couple a C151 with a C751A, then the C151 can run at full speed but the C751A can only run in RM (15km/h and below). 

  C751As use CBTC for signalling but NSL/EWL uses the traditional ATS system. The C751A can RECEIVE the code but it CANNOT read the code. Vice versa if a C151 on NEL. 

   

  Erm, contradiction with Interception_7's post.

   

  But I just want to say something. I'm pretty sure there will be a TCAS issue. The system recognises the first train only right? The systems TCAS in the "dead" weight train would be deactivated to couple with the pulling train, so the train behind this set of 12 carriage will recognise the xxx metres limit from the six carriages right? Is that a potential safety issue?

   

  Also, Interception_7 says that C151 trains cannot be pulled with their newer batches, so I'm a little confused over this now.

• Fryderyk HPH

  13 Jul 10, 11:01

  Originally posted by Interception_7:

  There has been a case of a C151 that brokedown and coupled with a C151 before, 2-4 years back. 12 cars should be the maximum number of sets coupled together.
  
  Before a train rescue were to take place, 12-car operation (when one 6-car train immobalised) will only take place after complete coupling had been done. This will then allow the brakes to be released on the defective train. In a 12-car operation, only the resuce train controls the traction, but not brake applications on defective 6-car set. There will always be a brake application (parking brakes) on the defective train, in case the 'train breaks away' or pre-mature coupling.
  
  It is possible to a certain extent perhaps. Technically speaking, in terms of dimensions of each carriage, the height and width are the same, which makes it possible to be coupled together. However, their traction system differs, which, I think may affect the operation of the trains. I will try to dig out some more information if I manage to.

   *1 EMU set unit comprised of 1 DT- 1 M1 - 1 M2.
  A train-set comprises 2 EMU set units.
  
  C151 sets could be worked with C151 sets only.
  
  C151 EMU set could not be worked with C651 or C751B sets.

  Thanks so much for that. Very interesting indeed.

• SBS8945Y

  13 Jul 10, 12:21

  Can anyone predict wad will happen to 216 and 225?

• LHDW

  13 Jul 10, 12:33

  Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:

  Erm, contradiction with Interception_7's post.

   

  But I just want to say something. I'm pretty sure there will be a TCAS issue. The system recognises the first train only right? The systems TCAS in the "dead" weight train would be deactivated to couple with the pulling train, so the train behind this set of 12 carriage will recognise the xxx metres limit from the six carriages right? Is that a potential safety issue?

   

  Also, Interception_7 says that C151 trains cannot be pulled with their newer batches, so I'm a little confused over this now.

  
  i think he meant the coupling between the two motor cars.

• Interception_7

  13 Jul 10, 20:12

  Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:

  Thanks so much for that. Very interesting indeed.

  Don't worry, I got my answers from my uncle.

• Samuel Lee

  14 Jul 10, 15:59

  Originally posted by Interception_7:

  Don't worry, I got my answers from my uncle.

  Erm, I have an question for that as well, what if there are a lack of trains (Meaning if a C651 got broke down but the nearest C651 available is probably more than 5 ~ 6 stations away then how?)

   

  C651 is the minority population in the SGMRT. (Only 19 cars)

• joeyfjj

  14 Jul 10, 16:53

  Originally posted by Dragonaxe:

  Only 2 can be coupled. If you are going to couple 3, it can only travel less than 30km/h due the weight its dragging. If you couple 3 trainsets together, you are going to ask the first train to be dragging 435.6 tons of weight ( excluding the train itself ). Power is not a problem because its using the first train motors only. The 2nd train is being "towed" to depot. If you have at least 3 or more than that, it may cause a power surge as more power is required to drag the faulty trains behind.

   

  It is possible to couple a C151 with a C651, a C651 with a C751B and a C151 with a C751B. Given that SMRT programmed the motors to have a downgradeable code to match the older train. But I dobut that SMRT has done that. 

  There is no TCAS danger when you miscouple a different type of trainsets together. Since that the signalling codes are still the same. (If not how they run on the same line?).

  The signalling is still the same no matter what you couple with. If you couple a C151 with a C751A, then the C151 can run at full speed but the C751A can only run in RM (15km/h and below). 

  C751As use CBTC for signalling but NSL/EWL uses the traditional ATS system. The C751A can RECEIVE the code but it CANNOT read the code. Vice versa if a C151 on NEL. 

   

  Just to correct this: NS/EW Lines uses ATP, with ATC as a fallback system.

• mrtdude5

  14 Jul 10, 17:00

  Originally posted by Samuel Lee:

  Erm, I have an question for that as well, what if there are a lack of trains (Meaning if a C651 got broke down but the nearest C651 available is probably more than 5 ~ 6 stations away then how?)

   

  C651 is the minority population in the SGMRT. (Only 19 cars)

  19 cars? Trains, you mean. 19 cars make only three trains.