Originally posted by Tenzin:The Zen Conference must been very interesting!
The 7th International Zen Conference concluded it's 2 days event today at Suntec and it was truly an inspiring experience: getting to know the approach of Zen Buddhism and the teachings shared during these 2 days. Below is a very interesting example given by one of the Zen Masters as an illustration of the nature of the mind:
As we all know, Winnie the Pooh will take all the honey his friends have in their home and they will do what they could to avoid that. It so happened that one day, Winnie paid a visit to the Rabbit:
[b]Winnie: Is there anyone home??
Rabbit: * Keeps quiet *
Winnie: Is anyone in there????
Rabbit: NO!
Winnie: Oh, I'm sorry.... * but thought to himself after a while * Hmmm.... if there is nobody home............. how could nobody say there is nobody...... If someone says there is nobody home, there must be somebody!
Winnie: Open up! I know someone is in there. Rabbit, is that you?
Rabbit: * Knowing he made a mistake *Oh all right, come on in......
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Personal interpretation & explanation as requested by Zeming:
The mind is a result of various constituents or functions as we may learn from the sutras taught by the Buddha, such as the 5 aggregates, like 'feelings' and 'consciousness' (just to name a few)*. An englightened person is one who is able to identify these constituents through their deep meditation, and further break them down and disallow their influences. When all these constituents are identified and disallowed to continue working, one will be enlightened, and the 'self' will exist no longer.
As such, if we are to say 'we' are nobody? Who exactly is that person making the statement? Since the mind is a result of various subtle functions, how could the mind be referred as 'somebody' or 'I', when it is a result of the initially very different functions of the mind? What made up this 'somebody' or 'I' concept?
In Zen Buddhism, they teach us to understand this nature through their Kong-An and unique meditation, to identify what are creating that 'I' and to understand what is really happening.
* Reference: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html[/b]
#1: Since they could be identified and 'broken down', they COULD be made independent, but due to our ignorance, they are made to condition one another which results in the formation of our mind. However true that could be, I'll need to meditate and find that out for myself in my practice.Buddhism teaches ..... interdependant origination, but you said they are independant, how is that so?
#2: I see this as a question which an answer would lead to the questioning of how compassion could arise from 1 without the aggregates. (My speculation though) As such, I will need to clarify with our venerable. I'm however inclined to reply this way:How nice of you!!
I have not attained enlightenment yet. When I have, I'll give you a call right away.
Hitting the floor hard and shouting KATZ is the Zen's wayOriginally posted by Tenzin:KATZ???
quote:The answer lies in the highlighted part of my earlier answer.
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#1: Since they could be identified and 'broken down', they COULD be made independent, but due to our ignorance, they are made to condition one another which results in the formation of our mind. However true that could be, I'll need to meditate and find that out for myself in my practice.
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Buddhism teaches ..... interdependant origination, but you said they are independant, how is that so?
I see, sorry for being carelessOriginally posted by Tenzin:The answer lies in the highlighted part of my earlier answer.
Haha, don't make the same mistake as me for replying a message by editing the other person's post! I always do that in the past!Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Hope my answer could be helpful. * Bows *
I see, sorry for being carelessHope my answer could be helpful. * Bows *
Haha, don't make the same mistake as me for replying a message by editing the other person's post! I always do that in the past!Haha, yeah, I noticed, then I was like.. Oh no... and so the new post here.
Wah, you edit my post again by mistakeOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Naruhodo~~ Many people were perturbed by these small actions and when they ask why they 'HAR!', they get 'HAR!' as a reply, so it was a double heart attack.
If you are not attached to KATZ or HIT or one finger, then you will understand that the meaning behind these actions is only clear mind. The different actions are just different styles of pointing to clear mind. It is impossible to explain clear mind in words, so the Zen Masters used shouting and hitting and holding up one finger to explain. You must put it down! KATZ is only KATZ, HIT is only HIT, one finger is only one finger. You must understand this.Naruhodo~~ Many people were perturbed by these small actions and when they ask why they 'HAR!', they get 'HAR!' as a reply, so it was a double heart attack.
Wah, you edit my post again by mistakeMessages came too fast ah, me noob here, that's why.
HAR!!!!!
Ya it's okOriginally posted by Tenzin:Messages came too fast ah, me noob here, that's why.
gong an or koan post in any of the zen threadOriginally posted by kaiyi:sorry i'm new here.. think i sent a personal msg to tenzin instead.. haha sorry
anyway.. i wanted to ask if anybody has any gong an to post up here? i'm kinda interested..
http://www.zenguide.com/zenmedia/index.cfmOriginally posted by kaiyi:sorry i'm new here.. think i sent a personal msg to tenzin instead.. haha sorry
anyway.. i wanted to ask if anybody has any gong an to post up here? i'm kinda interested..
I bring answer for your 2nd question and the way it is presented is accordingly to a presumption that you are already well informed of the pali terms, so I'll explain them only at further request:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:The Zen Conference must been very interesting!
An englightened person is one who is able to identify these constituents through their deep meditation, and further break them down and disallow their influences. When all these constituents are identified and disallowed to continue working, one will be enlightened, and the 'self' will exist no longer.
I have two questions:
1) does that mean that each of the 5 skhandas are independant of each other?
2) you said 'constituents are identified and disallowed to continue working', in that case, does the Buddha lack the 5 Skhandas?