Taiji
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Which school of taiji is for fighting?
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There's various Taiji Style around, Chen and Yang being the more popular ones. I'm currently learning Chen style Taiji Quan. This is the website of the Master of whom I'm currently learning from:Originally posted by Cenarious:Which school of taiji is for fighting?
http://www.geocities.com/tukylam/
Are you interested in Taiji as well? I haven't any luck though finding a Chen Style Taichi School in Singapore, so I many pick up Wing Chun when I return.
Hope that helps! -
http://www.geocities.com/tukylam/dantian.htmOriginally posted by Cenarious:Which school of taiji is for fighting?
This is just one of the articles that might have the answer you're looking for. -
Well... I would recommend the Hua Tiong Association for real combat Tai Chi. It used to be really big in Singapore until Master Tan retired to concentrate on his business but it's making a comeback now. The Hua Tiong presence in Malaysia is incredibly huge though.
Here's the website: www.geocities.com/huationg_wushu
It's a little cheesy though. -
Interesting. Are you in any of the classes? No informations on the intakes though on the website ; /Originally posted by samadhi_fire:Well... I would recommend the Hua Tiong Association for real combat Tai Chi. It used to be really big in Singapore until Master Tan retired to concentrate on his business but it's making a comeback now. The Hua Tiong presence in Malaysia is incredibly huge though.
Here's the website: www.geocities.com/huationg_wushu
It's a little cheesy though. -
As Taiji is an internal art, you need to master qigong before you can use it on combat. Qigong is the basis of all internal art. Without that, other arts can easily overcome.
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There is a saying:Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:As Taiji is an internal art, you need to master qigong before you can use it on combat. Qigong is the basis of all internal art. Without that, other arts can easily overcome.
Lian Quan Bu Lian Gong,
Dao Lao Yi Chang Kong.
is it Lian or Nian? anyway u get the point ; j -
then where u go learn qigong? Art like kendo all that got learn qigong?
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Most internal art will teach you qigong when you start learning. Because if you don't learn, learning the martial art is as good as not learning. Internal arts, as you have seen, are as soft as water. But what makes it as good as external ones is the qigong. If your master doesn't teach you qigong, look for another master.Originally posted by NewAge:then where u go learn qigong? Art like kendo all that got learn qigong?
For Kendo, they do learn, but it's very different from Chinese martial arts. I'm not too sure, they are after all from another country. -
Think Kendo emphazise more on the KI or internal energy. Quite similiar with Aiki KenOriginally posted by NewAge:then where u go learn qigong? Art like kendo all that got learn qigong? -
Greetings. I agree the part when qigong (we a call neigong) is essential part of an internal art training, but it is not advisable to start learning rite at the beginnng. I look from the standpoint of a Chen taiji stylist, so I might be bias. Usually I bring my students through the basics in Chansi (silk reeling), fajin kicks before enbraking on the traditional form, lao jia yi lu. My teacher will be a bit diffferent, he dun usually teach chansi now, he prefer to bring students through qigong then laojia. I do that for my students during combat practises instead.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Most internal art will teach you qigong when you start learning. Because if you don't learn, learning the martial art is as good as not learning. Internal arts, as you have seen, are as soft as water. But what makes it as good as external ones is the qigong. If your master doesn't teach you qigong, look for another master.
For Kendo, they do learn, but it's very different from Chinese martial arts. I'm not too sure, they are after all from another country.
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Just a question, is fajin pronounced as fa1 jin4?Originally posted by Christoffel:Greetings. I agree the part when qigong (we a call neigong) is essential part of an internal art training, but it is not advisable to start learning rite at the beginnng. I look from the standpoint of a Chen taiji stylist, so I might be bias. Usually I bring my students through the basics in Chansi (silk reeling), fajin kicks before enbraking on the traditional form, lao jia yi lu. My teacher will be a bit diffferent, he dun usually teach chansi now, he prefer to bring students through qigong then laojia. I do that for my students during combat practises instead.
If yes, without qigong, can one do that? Confused about it.
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Yes, its fa1 jin4. A good fajin builts on the foundations of total body coordination. If you do chen style taiji, there is a part in the form known as yan shou hong quan. Take this for example, the generation of power comes from the coordination of a few area. 1. The 45 degrees trust from the ground from the back leg. 2. the very small rotation of the pelvis (kua). 3. The half turn from the body.
1. The 45 degree thingy: As in xinyi or in many martial arts. A good force comes from the ground. Its free, don't waste it.
The 45 degrees comes as a result of the geometry of the form at that instance. It should be be use quite free during combat. Much in the same way as a volleyball player using the ground force to play. Problems often seen in students is that the ground force dun correspond well to the generation of the force. Its rather difficult to put in words but its some force vectors thingy.
2. The small circle thingy: Many learners of chen styles are not aware of this. At least in singapore I can safely say that 90% of chen stylist here don't know, well how do I know? Haha. By chance. I had the privilege of listen to Grandmaster Zhu Tian Cai saying this when he was in singapore. A japanese guy who was the champion of the Sino-Japan taijiquan competition flew over to singapore 2/3 years ago just to get pointers from him for 3 days. My teacher ask me to rest for the morning and go listen to GM Zhu. That morning, I followed GM Zhu around listening to him speaking abt the routine. Many of which he never publicly said before. It really depends on his mood, I guess he was quite happy that morning. Most people will move the kua in a linear motion; back and forth, if they ever do it at all.
3. Turning of the body: The body is sliced into two portions, left and right. Assuming that a rod is inserted from the top of the head (Bai Hui Xue) through and out just below the testicles (Hui Yin Xue). When u turn left, the right side moves out, and when right, vices versa. In mantaining a certain height, the greatest force comes from turning the body in either direction. Tangential force.
Greatest force comes from 1+2+3+Song Tan (relax and elastic) =well coordinated body. Force is greatest when body moves as one. The same goes for xingyi. Do a Pi or Zuan, body moves as one.
Coming back to the part on qigong, it should serve as a complement, but not an essential. Take Guo Yun Shen for example, Beng quan for him is more than enough. It is good for combat and the same time as qigong. Prolong practise of a certain form will generate a certain "force" or "momentum" in a certain way. Just like a worker carrying refrigerators everyday. As he works, he'll developed a "feel" in how to carry these bulky items. Not through "si li" (brute strength), but through qiao (technique). In a real situation, carrying a person and throwing him is easy for him, in the same way as carry a fridge. Qigong is very much a TCM thing. Why do xingyi generate a huge force? Because of total body coordination. I had a chance of meeting a xingyi teacher from hubei when he came over to singapore for his son-in-law's PhD grad. He he did a sudden push on my friend, my friend literally flew up. His body was very relax but the force he generated from the total body coordination is tremedous. He told us the actually all the forms in xingyi are meant to practise the coordination. If one practise dillgent enough, wu xing lian huan is more than sufficent. -
wow what Christoffel said is very enlightening. so what u are saying that practice make perfect so which is equal to muscle memory isn't the same as the hard style of martial or all martial art. Frm the books i read qi=nei gong=ki(in japanese). from the book i read it said that the best way to develope ki is through sitting zazen which is very close to the lotus position in the books i read on tai ji. Such positions are like yoga.
The fianl question will be is it with the right breathing technique, anyone who has been practicing zazan can achieve nei gong? -
Hi all, I'm interested in combat Taiji. Any clubs to recommend?
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HiOriginally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Most internal art will teach you qigong when you start learning. Because if you don't learn, learning the martial art is as good as not learning. Internal arts, as you have seen, are as soft as water. But what makes it as good as external ones is the qigong. If your master doesn't teach you qigong, look for another master.
For Kendo, they do learn, but it's very different from Chinese martial arts. I'm not too sure, they are after all from another country.
I think all this "qi" thing is all a myth. That is why Western medicine overtook Chinese medicine although Chinese medicine has such a long history.
Chinese like to base all their beliefs on theories, but never conduct any scientific experiments to test if their theories are true or not, or work or not. Chinese are unwilling to throw away beliefs that have been shown to be false and wrong, and just keep building layer upon layer of bullshit to explain things. I'm a Chinese btw. They just accept that just because someone said so, it must be true.
I have a lot of respect for the ancient Chinese. But I think that along the way, the essence of things have been lost, and all that's survived are unworkable things. If Huo Yuan Jia could fight and beat ang moh boxers and all that, he must know how to fight. Look at the shaolin monks and the kind of fitness/endurance training they do, and all the conditioning of their hands/heads/neck/legs etc. Even if their kung fu doesn't work for nuts, their conditioning will allow them to win a large majority of fights against untrained people. This is also why the Muay Thai boxers can beat everyone else. And the stuff they do works.
One must realise that the power of suggestion is a powerful thing. There is this guy in US claiming he can "stun" someone and make them knockout without touching them! Master of Dim Mak or some other bullshat. When he tried it against his own disciples, they all fainted. When he tried it on people outside of his gym, nobody felt anything. Why do people still believe such bullshat? I don't know. I've learnt not to believe anything any "sifu" or "master" or "tough guy" says unless he can back it up and demonstrate it on a fully resisting person intent on punching and kicking the shats out of him.
If "qi" is so deadly, will any "qigong" master kindly join the UFC or Pride/K1 and kindly blow everyone to smithereens with his super power.
If "qi" is so powerful then how come the muay thai boxers beat up everyone in stand up fighting? They don't have any "qi", they only have scientific methods that work. Fitness training, strength training, conditioning to take hits, simple and KISS attacks and defense, realistic fight drills, full contact sparring, endurance, etc. No "chi" or "qi" and no cosmic power or super power. Yet they kick everybody's ass.
If one's ever been in a real fight before, you'll know that the 101 moves to counter a punch that you've learnt in kung fu class will not work for you under stress. You cannot think, your mind starts to shut down. And why make yourself nervous and edgy by learning 101 moves against a punch and 202 moves against a kick? Just 1 or 2 moves will be enough. Imagine what it'll take for your mind to process all that information and ask yourself "Hmmm..which move will I use today."
Not meaning to diss anyone or any art, but we should keep it realistic. Wing Chun guys may be able to kick my ass from here to Timbucktoo for all I know, but we should always keep an inquiring and skeptical mind and question everything. Honestly ask ourselves, will it work in a real world situation, when a 100kg gorilla of a guy is charging at me and swinging his arms trying to knock me out cold. He's not a compliant partner, he's not going to hold out his hand and wait for you to Akido him to death, he's going to beat and kick and push and choke the shat out of you.
Will it work in that situation? If the answer is no, the art is useless for self defense. -
I think you just opened a can of worms...
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What about offence? Not just talking about self-defence. Just for information about Bruce Lee, the theorectical progenator of jeet kun do, he did punch a 100kg gorilla of a guy with a fist 1 inch away from the chest and caused the football player to stagger back 5 metres. Next question is about harnessing the full power of the blow. Ever tried to punch something hard? You will find that you slow your fist down before contact. Why? Because of your mind's subliminal fear of pain. Even if you master your fear, the next level is not to even feel the pain. And that's just for starters.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:Hi
I think all this "qi" thing is all a myth. That is why Western medicine overtook Chinese medicine although Chinese medicine has such a long history.
Chinese like to base all their beliefs on theories, but never conduct any scientific experiments to test if their theories are true or not, or work or not. Chinese are unwilling to throw away beliefs that have been shown to be false and wrong, and just keep building layer upon layer of bullshit to explain things. I'm a Chinese btw. They just accept that just because someone said so, it must be true.
I have a lot of respect for the ancient Chinese. But I think that along the way, the essence of things have been lost, and all that's survived are unworkable things. If Huo Yuan Jia could fight and beat ang moh boxers and all that, he must know how to fight. Look at the shaolin monks and the kind of fitness/endurance training they do, and all the conditioning of their hands/heads/neck/legs etc. Even if their kung fu doesn't work for nuts, their conditioning will allow them to win a large majority of fights against untrained people. This is also why the Muay Thai boxers can beat everyone else. And the stuff they do works.
One must realise that the power of suggestion is a powerful thing. There is this guy in US claiming he can "stun" someone and make them knockout without touching them! Master of Dim Mak or some other bullshat. When he tried it against his own disciples, they all fainted. When he tried it on people outside of his gym, nobody felt anything. Why do people still believe such bullshat? I don't know. I've learnt not to believe anything any "sifu" or "master" or "tough guy" says unless he can back it up and demonstrate it on a fully resisting person intent on punching and kicking the shats out of him.
If "qi" is so deadly, will any "qigong" master kindly join the UFC or Pride/K1 and kindly blow everyone to smithereens with his super power.
If "qi" is so powerful then how come the muay thai boxers beat up everyone in stand up fighting? They don't have any "qi", they only have scientific methods that work. Fitness training, strength training, conditioning to take hits, simple and KISS attacks and defense, realistic fight drills, full contact sparring, endurance, etc. No "chi" or "qi" and no cosmic power or super power. Yet they kick everybody's ass.
If one's ever been in a real fight before, you'll know that the 101 moves to counter a punch that you've learnt in kung fu class will not work for you under stress. You cannot think, your mind starts to shut down. And why make yourself nervous and edgy by learning 101 moves against a punch and 202 moves against a kick? Just 1 or 2 moves will be enough. Imagine what it'll take for your mind to process all that information and ask yourself "Hmmm..which move will I use today."
Not meaning to diss anyone or any art, but we should keep it realistic. Wing Chun guys may be able to kick my ass from here to Timbucktoo for all I know, but we should always keep an inquiring and skeptical mind and question everything. Honestly ask ourselves, will it work in a real world situation, when a 100kg gorilla of a guy is charging at me and swinging his arms trying to knock me out cold. He's not a compliant partner, he's not going to hold out his hand and wait for you to Akido him to death, he's going to beat and kick and push and choke the shat out of you.
Will it work in that situation? If the answer is no, the art is useless for self defense. -
I think the once inch punch is a trick...in any case, why would you want your punch to push someone back?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What about offence? Not just talking about self-defence. Just for information about Bruce Lee, the theorectical progenator of jeet kun do, he did punch a 100kg gorilla of a guy with a fist 1 inch away from the chest and caused the football player to stagger back 5 metres. Next question is about harnessing the full power of the blow. Ever tried to punch something hard? You will find that you slow your fist down before contact. Why? Because of your mind's subliminal fear of pain. Even if you master your fear, the next level is not to even feel the pain. And that's just for starters.
What's that got to do with chi? -
Now that the can of worms has been opened, how can anyone believe this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPAmScOHCYQ
Note: I have absolutely no experience of Taiji; so will some one in the know explain the video? I believe it is known as Ling Kong Jin -
Certainly. The truth is painful, but only when we're willing to wake up and see the truth can we start to learn and improve.Originally posted by scabstermooch:I think you just opened a can of worms...
My moment of enlightenment came when I was getting the snot beat up of me by an untrained street gangster.
Why doesn't my flying kick, or turning kick, or axe kick or back hook work? Oh, I'm wearing jeans, not gi pants, and haven't done my warm up excercises and stretching. Should I ask this gangster to wait while I stretch?
What if I try to back hook him and miss, and he closes with me, should i ask him to obey the rules that he should not punch my face? And he should just stick to crescent kicks if he wants to hit me with kicks at that distance?
When he's charging me, why is it then when I do a side kick, I connect but end up on my butt on the ground? Why isn't he waiting for me to get up and for the refree to say continue, but is beating and kicking the shit out of me?
I don't know. When I asked my instructor why we learn all the stupid low, high, inside, outside blocks, forward stance, back stance, punching from horse riding stance with the punch coming from the hip, and then we spend 1 yr plus training that, how come when we finally go for full contact sparring, we don't use ANY OF IT?? WHY??!?
Oh...because they help you improve the beauty of your art, because of this because of that. It's all total bullshat.
So I woke up! And I opened my eyes to see what actually works. My advice to akido guys hoping to train for self defense, is also to wake up.
Peace!
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Have you seen anyone do the "one inch punch" in a real brawl before?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What about offence? Not just talking about self-defence. Just for information about Bruce Lee, the theorectical progenator of jeet kun do, he did punch a 100kg gorilla of a guy with a fist 1 inch away from the chest and caused the football player to stagger back 5 metres. Next question is about harnessing the full power of the blow. Ever tried to punch something hard? You will find that you slow your fist down before contact. Why? Because of your mind's subliminal fear of pain. Even if you master your fear, the next level is not to even feel the pain. And that's just for starters. -
It's exactly this kind of stupid charlatans that I'm talking about. It's ok if they want to believe in this bullshat, but people come to them wanting to learn how to defend themselves are getting cheated not only of their money but their time and effort.Originally posted by scabstermooch:Now that the can of worms has been opened, how can anyone believe this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAiwnNSh49c
His training partner can join bollywood, I'm sure he'll make it big. -
You know, when I was watching the video, I was just thinking how funny it'll be if in the middle of all his bullshat, a little kid goes up to him and kicks him in the nuts. Hahahaha! That would really be hilarious!Originally posted by scabstermooch:Now that the can of worms has been opened, how can anyone believe this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPAmScOHCYQ
Note: I have absolutely no experience of Taiji; so will some one in the know explain the video? I believe it is known as Ling Kong Jin