I hear of a Bjj dojo in Chinatown with an instructor who...
-
Wah. this thread from a loser purple belt suddenly became a thread on Darren. Well, anyway, I guess the gyms dislike him because he is doing well. Plus his students are doing well too.
Saw the combatacademy website..Cool. KOTC in Singapore in Nov. Wow. Mma is growing here on our little island eh? I guess from a much much earlier reply from one of you about 'proof' let's see if Jason sends in anyone (or maybe himself) to fight in this one. Afterall, he is one of the 'highest ranking belts' in Singapore.
Aiya, I saw the grappling tournament you were talking about kimuraguy. Was it last year? I cant remember. The bloody fool Jason must have been the fat guy who tried to pin the skinny guy against the wall a couple of times right? Never seen that move in a grappling tournament before. So cannot-make-it.I agree, Darren's guy was robbed. I was sitting beside a ABC guy and he said that he (Jason) must have sucked some guys c#$k for his blue belt. I just laughed...It's all coming back to me now.
Anyway, I found that tournament so badly organised. Some poor angmoh broke his leg and there was no ambulance or medic on site...And yes...I thought that many of the judges decisions were questionable. Sometimes, 1 shoulder off the ground also consider pin. Maybe the judges kelong. Needless to say, I would never go to watch one of their tournaments again. Waste time. Plus you are right..There were only a few students who performed submissions. The rest all by pin. Sibeh Sian. You are telling me that ALL the submissions I saw were by Darren's students only?
But it is so funny...After the tournament, all of the different instructors shake hands like friends lei. Then now I hear they dun like Darren. Aiyo. So beetchy.
Hmm some of you maybe wondering what martial arts I do....I do KNNBCBHootAH..Singapore Style
. Aiya. I just like to watch and beetch only lah. But judging from the standard I saw at that competition. I REALLY dun think some of them can even tap a spectator like myself. -
Eh...I know the combat academy website says so...but the KOTC website has no mention.Originally posted by Albinogorilla:Saw the combatacademy website..Cool. KOTC in Singapore in Nov. Wow. Mma is growing here on our little island eh?
http://www.kingofthecage.com/schedule.html
Wonder if it will come to pass. -
I think all this badmouthing is totally unnecessary. We learn an art to improve ourselves. Some people will just be better physically from the start than others, there's no necessity to call anyone a loser or whatever. I can be a karate, judo, bjj, akido, bullshido black belt 9th dan, and Fedor can be in his totally untrained state, and in a fight he'll probably still kick my ass real bad.
I agree that this Jason guy, if he's really overpowered by a white belt, his belt ranking system is really suspect. Because I understand that you have to be able to tap most of the white belts in your school, and also from other schools in tournaments, before you can be promoted to even a blue.
I don't think a reputable purple belt will be tapped out by many white belts, maybe one or two out of a lot, because like I said some people are just naturally very good or already have a judo background or even a judo black belt. What I've read on the net says that even a BJJ blue belt can regularly tap out judo black or brown belts.
And when the term "Darren's guys" are used, did Darren train these people from scratch, or are these people ang mohs from other country who've already trained for many years, or from the Phillipines, and they just fight under Darren's banner? Because if they were already all trained overseas by good teachers and just come to fight here under a certain gym's banner, then they're not really Darren's students right?
I am very against this kind of attitude because my TKD coach also used to be like that. Very aggressive and belligerent, always want to make trouble and cannot get along with anybody. In the S'pore TKD Federation, he dunno quarrel with how many people, even woman also he quarrel. Somemore in some demo match he go and kick the woman figher's head and make her KO, and still can feel very proud about it and boast to us. I got very sick and tired of his attitude, he's not a sportsman, even though his skill is good and he's my coach, he's just a chow ah beng.
No social skills one, but he's a construction worker so I can understand. He can fight, but I don't respect his character at all, although he has trained a SEA games gold medalist. I don't think he understand the meaning of sportsmanship. Good thing not many of his students adopt his attitude.
E.g. I like painting, and have been doing it for years. There was this guy I've known for years who's been practicing painting too. He's actually not very good, but he's very passionate in what he does and it makes him happy and he has experienced personal growth with his painting, and he keeps getting better. I don't consider him a loser, I respect him for his tenacity and passion.
Normally people don't dislike you because you're doing well or you've won tournaments or you're good etc. That sounds just like what Americans say when people dislike them. Oh..they're jealous of our freedoms, our greatness, our power, our great country, etc. But we know that's not the reason. We dislike them because they're rude, arrogant, pompous and insensitive. Same goes with people. Sakuraba beat Gracie, yet look at how humble he is in victory. I'm sure there is no bad blood between them, and I'm sure the Gracies respect him very much as a fighter and as a person, and not dislike him because he's good.
When we lose a match, we say judges kelong, not fair, etc. This is really not sportsmanship. This is a very loser attitude. Look at the Thais. They go to china to fight, the chinese govt. rigs the fight by making them wear elbow pads and modifying the rules to favour the sanda fighters. Does the muay thai guy complain? No, he just takes it at that and proceeds to do his best in the ring. That, to me, is the ultimate courage and sportsmanship. They don't argue over every little detail, they just go in and do their best, and they end up kicking everybody's butt anyway. Outside the ring they are humble, courteous and there's no bad blood.
If all the products of this Darren's gym are like this, I think I'll just give it a pass. Sigh...is it so hard to find a good instructor here in S'pore. -
very well said...
the most intelligent and critical comment in this thread so far.
At least there is someone here who is able to look beyond the surface of things.
which is really important especially in forums where credibility is difficult to verify.
I gotta agree with you that it is not uncommon to find instructors with terrible character and insecurities. I'm completely guessing but it almost seems like they took up martial arts to compensate for their insercurities and flaws. However the really issues were never addressed but merely masked over.
the worst part of it though is that the students have deal with it. it takes quite a lot of emotional energy to deal with the instructors insercurities, energy which could be wiser spent. some people should never be in the position of
leadership. -
I agree totally. In fact, I think a lot of people take up martial arts because they were bullied as a child. Others take it up because of movies. But I find those that are more interested in "real-world" arts that can be applied have mostly been beaten up or bullied sometime in their lives. It is like this for me too.Originally posted by thunder_cracker:I gotta agree with you that it is not uncommon to find instructors with terrible character and insecurities. I'm completely guessing but it almost seems like they took up martial arts to compensate for their insercurities and flaws. However the really issues were never addressed but merely masked over.
the worst part of it though is that the students have deal with it. it takes quite a lot of emotional energy to deal with the instructors insercurities, energy which could be wiser spent. some people should never be in the position of
leadership.
But I don't think we should turn around and become bullies once we become good at fighting, then what different are we from the people who bullied us in the first place? I believe in using my art to give me confidence and give me the option of protecting people who can't protect themselves, not to bully people.
I have been under the thumb of my terrible instructor for so many years, he'll even humilate us with vulgarities in front of girls in the class if we don't perform up to his standard, so hell if I'll submit myself to this kind of instructor again.
Some of the best fighters are real nice people, like Geoff Thompson, whom I've met and who's been in hundreds of street fights as a bouncer. But beating up people is his job, but in real life, the guy is very humble and very nice, no tough guy attitude at all.
Tough guys are people who just haven't found the confidence in themselves to be nice, and need to project a "front" and fake facade to "make" people respect them. -
You make some good points here. I apologize on behalf of "Darren's guys" if we came across as such "products."Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I think all this badmouthing is totally unnecessary. We learn an art to improve ourselves. Some people will just be better physically from the start than others, there's no necessity to call anyone a loser or whatever. I can be a karate, judo, bjj, akido, bullshido black belt 9th dan, and Fedor can be in his totally untrained state, and in a fight he'll probably still kick my ass real bad.
I agree that this Jason guy, if he's really overpowered by a white belt, his belt ranking system is really suspect. Because I understand that you have to be able to tap most of the white belts in your school, and also from other schools in tournaments, before you can be promoted to even a blue.
I don't think a reputable purple belt will be tapped out by many white belts, maybe one or two out of a lot, because like I said some people are just naturally very good or already have a judo background or even a judo black belt. What I've read on the net says that even a BJJ blue belt can regularly tap out judo black or brown belts.
And when the term "Darren's guys" are used, did Darren train these people from scratch, or are these people ang mohs from other country who've already trained for many years, or from the Phillipines, and they just fight under Darren's banner? Because if they were already all trained overseas by good teachers and just come to fight here under a certain gym's banner, then they're not really Darren's students right?
I am very against this kind of attitude because my TKD coach also used to be like that. Very aggressive and belligerent, always want to make trouble and cannot get along with anybody. In the S'pore TKD Federation, he dunno quarrel with how many people, even woman also he quarrel. Somemore in some demo match he go and kick the woman figher's head and make her KO, and still can feel very proud about it and boast to us. I got very sick and tired of his attitude, he's not a sportsman, even though his skill is good and he's my coach, he's just a chow ah beng.
No social skills one, but he's a construction worker so I can understand. He can fight, but I don't respect his character at all, although he has trained a SEA games gold medalist. I don't think he understand the meaning of sportsmanship. Good thing not many of his students adopt his attitude.
E.g. I like painting, and have been doing it for years. There was this guy I've known for years who's been practicing painting too. He's actually not very good, but he's very passionate in what he does and it makes him happy and he has experienced personal growth with his painting, and he keeps getting better. I don't consider him a loser, I respect him for his tenacity and passion.
Normally people don't dislike you because you're doing well or you've won tournaments or you're good etc. That sounds just like what Americans say when people dislike them. Oh..they're jealous of our freedoms, our greatness, our power, our great country, etc. But we know that's not the reason. We dislike them because they're rude, arrogant, pompous and insensitive. Same goes with people. Sakuraba beat Gracie, yet look at how humble he is in victory. I'm sure there is no bad blood between them, and I'm sure the Gracies respect him very much as a fighter and as a person, and not dislike him because he's good.
When we lose a match, we say judges kelong, not fair, etc. This is really not sportsmanship. This is a very loser attitude. Look at the Thais. They go to china to fight, the chinese govt. rigs the fight by making them wear elbow pads and modifying the rules to favour the sanda fighters. Does the muay thai guy complain? No, he just takes it at that and proceeds to do his best in the ring. That, to me, is the ultimate courage and sportsmanship. They don't argue over every little detail, they just go in and do their best, and they end up kicking everybody's butt anyway. Outside the ring they are humble, courteous and there's no bad blood.
If all the products of this Darren's gym are like this, I think I'll just give it a pass. Sigh...is it so hard to find a good instructor here in S'pore.
Let me share with you briefly how it's been. I've know Darren since 2002 and as the rest have said, he's not very well-liked by the others in the community. Why? I have no idea but as the rest have suggested, could be due to his "relaxed" philosophy when it comes to student-teacher relations, could be due to his success, or it could be that they viewed him as a threat because of his skills (imagine if you were a ranked BJJ exponent who knew you were nowhere near him in skill), etc. As a student and a friend, it is definitely not due to his attitude. Darren goes out of his way to help his students and fellow instructors in any way he can. He let a Kyokushin-karateka to teach in his school when he wanted to start out, helping him market his classes in his advertisements, asking only that he pay for utilities.
As a result of being, in a sense, an "outcast", he gets funny calls challenging him to fights only not to turn up (Jason challenged Darren to a fight but backed down - this was back in 2003), the school does not get invited to tournaments until the very last minute (leaving us no time to train - but we still win anyway), and if you looked at the internet forums before, he's always been bad-mouthed. However, through all these, he's managed to persevere and now that his students are numerous enough to defend him online, we seem to have reversed roles on the surface. But you must understand that whatever shit gets thrown at Darren, is shit thrown at us too and we're tired of it. Darren doesn't control us and doesn't condone all this. If you think we're dirty, you should've seen what they were doing.
I have had personal experience with this Chinatown instructor so my view is biased. If any of you wish to learn BJJ/grappling, all these schools offer trial lessons. The best judge of anything is yourself so my suggestion would be to try out each and everyone of these schools, and then decide for yourself.
Schools that I know of would be: MMA Academy, Jason's Machado school, Kon's Kreation Jiu-jitsu, Chris DeWett's Contact Kinetics and perhaps Budo Academy (although this could be Kon's too).
Google the schools, I'm too lazy to post the adds. As for your comments about Darren's fighters not being his products, his fighters are his fighters. The best examples would be his two best fighters: Bruce and Cain. The overseas students only form a very small portion and they're usually just visiting. The student who competed in NAGA was a judo exponent who learnt his groundwork from Darren, a Singaporean.
Alright, enough nonsense. Good luck to whoever's searching for a school. Gotta get ready for training.
Btw, NoRiceBoys, if you're ever interested in checking out Darren's school, drop me a PM. I'll be glad to show you around. -
That is unfortunate. There is no reason any instructor should make you feel less about yourself. Punishment trainning is a very poor form of motivation, it eats up your sense of self-respect, especially for young people who are growing up and developing their own sense of self awareness. it can be a dangerous thing.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I have been under the thumb of my terrible instructor for so many years, he'll even humilate us with vulgarities in front of girls in the class if we don't perform up to his standard, so hell if I'll submit myself to this kind of instructor again.
A mark of a good instructor is his ability to bring out the best in the people around him. not just in terms of skill but also in terms of self-worth. with self-worth, motivation comes naturally.
this is not to say that he shouldn't push you. He should be pushing you hard to challenge your limits, and you should be knocked down, suffering physically, throwing up buckets, but it should never eroded your self-respect.
simply said, despite the physical pain if you don't enjoy the company of people and the activity you engage in at some mental level, then you are most probaly in the wrong place. -
nicely said noriceguys
but i think you missed the whole point of what i was trying to say and i guess you have never put yourself in the shoes of an instructor.
When the judges kelong in the last grappling match darren's fighter took it in good manner. they was no protesting or bitching. however darren felt bad.
he's the kind of guy that treats people well and takes really good care of his fighters. he treats everyone in the gym like family. he felt bad coz HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN TO YOUR FIGHTER THAT AFTER ALL THE TRAINING HE LOST BECAUSE OF POLITICS." he felt that his fighters trusted him to enter them in a tournament where the judges were not biased but they were.
he felt bad for entering them into that tournament. and i've got proof coz there was a no slamming rule and darren's fighter got slammed 5 times and the opponent was not even warned coz the ref was from the other school. I HAVE IT ON TAPE
guys come overseas coz i think darren shows them a whole different approach to martial arts and it betters their fighting.
he really is a nice guy. and looks into the positive in other people.
so before you make a decision give him a try. you'll not regret. i didn't -
i was a student at e mma academy when it was still at tanjong pagar ard 2004.. anyway i quitted after 4-5 mths cos of family n financial problems.. i was still a student at tat time and paying e monthly fees is quite hard for me although i haf to admit tat darren's school is e one of e most affordable of the mma schools around.
ok.. about darren.. from e short time i train under him.. i find him to be a humble guy as well as a gd trainer.. no airs or ego from him at all.. when i was there.. i also heard many negative things about him from internets forums.. people talks.. however i am not one to believe hearsay.. what e others haf said about his student-teacher relationship is also correct.. he treats his students as his frens..
anyway i quite regretted quitting quietly.. i did not tell him i want to quit.. just kept quiet n fade away as was quite paisey at tat time to tell him i haf no money to train.. haha.. so ya. .aniway.. in my humble opinion he's a down to earth guy as well as a good mma trainer. -
dude, you just gotta go try, if you cannot stand it you can always leave. darren won't force you to stay..Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I think all this badmouthing is totally unnecessary. We learn an art to improve ourselves. Some people will just be better physically from the start than others, there's no necessity to call anyone a loser or whatever. I can be a karate, judo, bjj, akido, bullshido black belt 9th dan, and Fedor can be in his totally untrained state, and in a fight he'll probably still kick my ass real bad.
I agree that this Jason guy, if he's really overpowered by a white belt, his belt ranking system is really suspect. Because I understand that you have to be able to tap most of the white belts in your school, and also from other schools in tournaments, before you can be promoted to even a blue.
I don't think a reputable purple belt will be tapped out by many white belts, maybe one or two out of a lot, because like I said some people are just naturally very good or already have a judo background or even a judo black belt. What I've read on the net says that even a BJJ blue belt can regularly tap out judo black or brown belts.
And when the term "Darren's guys" are used, did Darren train these people from scratch, or are these people ang mohs from other country who've already trained for many years, or from the Phillipines, and they just fight under Darren's banner? Because if they were already all trained overseas by good teachers and just come to fight here under a certain gym's banner, then they're not really Darren's students right?
I am very against this kind of attitude because my TKD coach also used to be like that. Very aggressive and belligerent, always want to make trouble and cannot get along with anybody. In the S'pore TKD Federation, he dunno quarrel with how many people, even woman also he quarrel. Somemore in some demo match he go and kick the woman figher's head and make her KO, and still can feel very proud about it and boast to us. I got very sick and tired of his attitude, he's not a sportsman, even though his skill is good and he's my coach, he's just a chow ah beng.
No social skills one, but he's a construction worker so I can understand. He can fight, but I don't respect his character at all, although he has trained a SEA games gold medalist. I don't think he understand the meaning of sportsmanship. Good thing not many of his students adopt his attitude.
E.g. I like painting, and have been doing it for years. There was this guy I've known for years who's been practicing painting too. He's actually not very good, but he's very passionate in what he does and it makes him happy and he has experienced personal growth with his painting, and he keeps getting better. I don't consider him a loser, I respect him for his tenacity and passion.
Normally people don't dislike you because you're doing well or you've won tournaments or you're good etc. That sounds just like what Americans say when people dislike them. Oh..they're jealous of our freedoms, our greatness, our power, our great country, etc. But we know that's not the reason. We dislike them because they're rude, arrogant, pompous and insensitive. Same goes with people. Sakuraba beat Gracie, yet look at how humble he is in victory. I'm sure there is no bad blood between them, and I'm sure the Gracies respect him very much as a fighter and as a person, and not dislike him because he's good.
When we lose a match, we say judges kelong, not fair, etc. This is really not sportsmanship. This is a very loser attitude. Look at the Thais. They go to china to fight, the chinese govt. rigs the fight by making them wear elbow pads and modifying the rules to favour the sanda fighters. Does the muay thai guy complain? No, he just takes it at that and proceeds to do his best in the ring. That, to me, is the ultimate courage and sportsmanship. They don't argue over every little detail, they just go in and do their best, and they end up kicking everybody's butt anyway. Outside the ring they are humble, courteous and there's no bad blood.
If all the products of this Darren's gym are like this, I think I'll just give it a pass. Sigh...is it so hard to find a good instructor here in S'pore. -
Some of you guys here should be a priest, kept on preaching and preaching..
-
hmm.. both were featured yesterday on Sunday Times life.
-
Yeah... evangelizing is a big turn off.Originally posted by BlackbeltJones:Some of you guys here should be a priest, kept on preaching and preaching..
I was just thinking, a good way for readers to get a good feel of how a particular school / gym is like would be for the students of that school to actually talk about why you do what you do on a personal level. In this case martial arts.
That way we get an insight to the mind of a typical student of a particular school. From there readers can deduce if they would able to fit into the school's culture.
whatmore, i think would make more decent conversation. as compared to stating my school is this, has so many champions, has x number of students, etc...
Let's try to make this thread more insightful -
hi Thunder a agree and also disagree on what you wrote. i disagree that stating the acheivements would be a negative effect here. i mean whats wrong with stating the acheivements of a school here. if it has produced champions and has a larger number of followers is that not a good sign for a gym?
i really wish people here can share their experiences and knowledge on martial arts instead of bitching.
So to get the ball rolling i shall contribute an article or tips on martial arts or self defense every week and hopefully we can all come together and help each other better ourselves. (will try hard as i can as i have limited knowledge on the arts) -
Only if you can back it up with concrete proof. Proof that shows the actual skill level of a gym, such as a video clip. making a claim such as "i was there along with a dozen other people when we sweep up all the gold medals" isn't good enough. such statements are inconclusive at best and misleading at worst. It leaves too much doubt, for example all the other competitors could be crap.Originally posted by kimuraguy:i mean whats wrong with stating the acheivements of a school here. if it has produced champions and has a larger number of followers is that not a good sign for a gym?
a school having a large number of students do not necessarily mean quality. A school with a large number of lousy students is still gonna be a lousy school. A school that has smaller number of students with porportionately high skill level and more importantly a culture that encourages peer learning would be a much better place.
in short, i would appreciate posts that provide accurate insight and inspire new ways of thinking. -
ok i've something to say..
If being the top team in competition doesn't prove anything, does this mean competition itself, actually doesn't prove anything at all?
Why is "winning most of the gold medals" inconclusive and misleading?
It doesn't "leave too much of a doubt" imo. If the other competitors are crap, that means those schools need to buck up and their skill level are indeed leaves much to be desired. Consequently, that means darren's club is the top club in spore. The crux of the matter is not with darren's club but with other school's ability to win the medals.
I do agree that a school having a large number of students do not necessarily mean quality. But this will be for another topic. -
not neccessarily.Originally posted by BlackbeltJones:ok i've something to say..
If being the top team in competition doesn't prove anything, does this mean competition itself, actually doesn't prove anything at all?
If you are the top team in a competition that consists of skilled competitors, then yes. Conversely being able to beat low level competitors may not neccessarily mean that you are good. -
So, considering that all the grappling/MMA schools are participating in these tournaments, what you're saying is that...... everyone sucks. =)Originally posted by thunder_cracker:not neccessarily.
If you are the top team in a competition that consists of skilled competitors, then yes. Conversely being able to beat low level competitors may not neccessarily mean that you are good.
Again, to all those who are interested in picking up grappling, wake up your f**king idea and get off these bloody forums. Singapore is small - it's not that hard to find these schools and go for a trial lesson.
He says his teacher teacher better, I say mine better. It will never end. Stop finding shortcuts and start training. You all never read Jing Yong - all the different sects always fighting. All got good fighters, all got CBs also. -
I have to admit that as a newcomer who's looking for a school, it gets a little confusing for me.Originally posted by BlackbeltJones:Consequently, that means darren's club is the top club in spore. The crux of the matter is not with darren's club but with other school's ability to win the medals.
So as BlackBeltJones has suggested, may we list down:
1) Which tournament was it (place held, name of tournament, rough timeframe) that Darren's guys won the medals?
2) How many players took part, from each school? Which BJJ schools sent representatives to this contest?
3) What was the final results?
It is important to know how many players each team sent because in certain tournaments, one team may send 12 people, and other teams 2 people. So in effect many of the matches are fought between people from the same team.
Will appreciate the facts, thanks very much.
Thanks to everyone for the really civillized and polite discourse so far. -
Dude, i did not suggest anything, i'm just voicing a little of my opinion. - As an outsider, how i see things.
-
The true spirit of martial arts in my opinion has been lost due to excessive competitions and martial arts fighting shows like UFC and Pride.
-
Aren't we talking about the local scene? what has this got to do with Pride and UFC?
Do you mean excessive competitions in the local scene or overseas? -
If you are looking for a school, why don't you just take free trial lessons at the respective schools?Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I have to admit that as a newcomer who's looking for a school, it gets a little confusing for me.
...
Even if one of them is the super duper uber grappler of doom!(TM), it would not mean much if you have a personality clash with the people at the school. Just go take the trial lesson and see which one you are most comfortable with, cost performance or otherwise.
Further, if you are coming to BJJ/grappling as a complete beginner, it really doesn't matter all that much which instructor is technically better; ALL of them would tap you on a whim.
-
^^ Yep that's right.
-
doesnt matter where the competitions are held, am talking about in general.Originally posted by BlackbeltJones:Aren't we talking about the local scene? what has this got to do with Pride and UFC?
Do you mean excessive competitions in the local scene or overseas?