Internal Energy Art - how powerful can it get?
-
How much are you putting up? Venue?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:How about challenging me? I havn't even taken any formal training but I can bet I can still kick your butt.
-
Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:
Mike Tyson trains physical strength as well as technique. You can think of internal energy as the equivalent of physical strength. Learning internal energy alone does not mean you are a great fighter, technique is important as well. How to dodge, where to hit, these all come under technique.
I give up. Please carry on.
Edited to add: I guess folks like Mike Tyson, Matt Hughes, Mas Oyama, Bas Rutten, Buakaw, Fedor and Cro Cop are all limp-wristed soggy buscuits compared to bodybuilders.
I shudder at the level of delusionment and stupidity demonstrated on this forum.
I take my leave.......
A simple example is this...
A strong man chopping thru a pile of bricks using brute force. There is no technique involved in the chopping motion, it just a simple downward strike. Similarly when those xiaolin monks or wudang priests do the same there is no technique involved except they use internal energy instead of physical strength.
Internal energy = power
Technique = skill -
Nothing can beat Genuine Internal Kong Fu,Nothing in your ufc matches.
I like to watch the ufc & see the so called fighters who suffer from frail bodys(easily injured bones ) & early baldness,a sign they have low level Yang Chi
-
Standing from a Chen style taiji practitioner point of view (more of mine and maybe most of the Chen villagers in China), I do agree with NoRiceBoys on a contact to contact basis. While i will not dwell into the argument here, I do believe in an actual contact sparring to at the very least, protect yrself from others who know martial arts. I know I may sound offending to many taiji masters around the world, but i guess many may wan to give a second thought to wat i say. We all know of many great present day taiji masters, respecting them for their skills and character. However, many stopped at the stage of "playing" with the students, esp in push hands. Being great in push hands does not equal to being able to fight. They are many who can fight as well, i ganna before....
I rem a time when i was passing by a friend's class when she was teaching taiji. One of her student's asked a classic qn: "Mdm, how do you use this stance?", and the classic reply being:"ok, u give me a punch.....", the student gives a slow punch and she does watever she deems correct. Well there's nth wrong with it but when i found out the student is a karate 2nd dan, it makes pple ponder. If the student really throws a hard and fast punch, can you handle it? Let's talk abt the internal things as yet, if u can't even recieve the punch, nth else needs to be said. The taiji set design by past generations masters are definitely effective BUT the full power of it can only be harness provided u test and refined it yrself. Dun take taiji and bagua or any martial art as ultimate, they aren't. I, too, ask my students to throw punch at me when explaining, and i asked them to punch hard and fast. I often get punched on my body too, sometimes can't get my student's punch on time but that a learning path for me to improve my techniques too. Any contact outside yr own class, pple's not gonna give chance to u u know. If u wan yr technique to work; soft, hard, short, long range and all sorts of hands techniques u must have been in contact before. Without all these basic experiences, dun talk abt internal energy and stuff. High chance u can't even handle a street gangster, much less another martial artist. Ppl in Chen village (Taiji orgin) in China for example, dun talk much abt internal energy too. Got a prob? Whack. Simple as that. I'm not encouraging pple to fight of course (mata are watching me. haha), but without physical NO RULES contact to contact.... any type of art is jus hua jia zi. -
Isnt this the reason why ppl does push hands, Christoffel.
-
Push hands is an interminate stage to combat, but it is not combat itself. Push hands techniques usually works well when u are able to "stick" to the person, but only when u can recieved, then u can stick. That's the part when i say traditonal routines will have its uses but only after u tested it out yrself. It usually goes like this:
1. Recieving: Able or unable?
2. Pushing hands: Realistic or Not realistic way of pushing?
3. Total body defence: Punch? Body? Kicking? Any combination coming?
Keeping this things in mind then maybe, jus maybe. Push hands training will complement free sparing and routine better. Else playing with fun pushing wun really help much. -
Christoffel,
i always tot that the reason for pushing hand is to try out the things that u learnt in the forms. A push which is liken to a palm strike can easily evolve to a punch or hook. Also during the fight it is the 1 second of contact which make all the difference, if u are not sensitive enough bye bye -
you're right NewAge. But got to extend further than push hands, any martial arts should have basic 4 elements: Ti (kick), Da (strike), Shuai (Throw), Na (hold). Pushing hands alone will increase yr reflexes (or sensativity per say), but we have to further probe into hand to hand, hand to leg, hand to body contact and such. Say for an example, a BJJ guy brings to u the ground, wat can u do? Probably some may think "i wun let him have a chance to bring me to the ground." But things aren't always that easy. So in our normal class practise, we have to think ahead 1st. I totally agree to wat u say abt the sensativity part. But it ain always 1 touch u're can feel and u're out. Push hands allows u to go 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 .....changes, normal practise will really be wat is described by Chen style as:
�½ÈË�ÆÊÖÈçΧÆ壬һÀ´Ò»�ùÂ۸ߵ�£»
Χµ½É½ÇîË®¾¡Ê±£¬�½È»Ò»Ê½Å�´Æ�Û¡£
combat wise, 1 , 2 , 3. At most (in my opinion). That's when what u've said fits in perfectly. 3 at most, u must finish it. This 3 could be any of the 4 stuff i mentioned above. So push hands is very important, but it should be taken to a higher level in a combat situation to further enhance the sensativity trained. -
Dear Christoffel,
What u said is right! Honestly i still do not know what to do if a bjj guy come at me. I ask a master what to do at such situation. He told me to siam that guy when her try to grapple me and that is where the foot work come in. He also mentioned about the stance in which if a grappler successfully cross he can only get hold of a single leg. If u are able to sunk correctly u shld not loose yr balance. at the instance u shld know what to do lah dont need me to elaborate right? -
Amazing...
I believe internal energy in comic but dont really believe it in real life... -
As said, I've not tried with a real Muay Thai fighter. At one point of the lesson, we only wanted to test out theories with Muay Thai rules applied.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:Have you actually tried this in a real fight against a real muay thai fighter, or is this just theory that you heard from someone else?
Well, when rules were applied, we (internal arts practitioner) had an upper hand. Without rules, it's another issue. It will all depends on the skills of both the Muay Thai fighter as well as the internal art practitioner.
No worries about that. There are facts and myths in all things. Theories will always be theories, it looks good on surface.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I'm sorry if I was rude before, it's just that I really can't stand bull crap, especially when the bull crap misleads gullible people and is mainly done for money because it leads people to believe they can get superhuman powers. There is really no secret to having good fighting skills. Its just training, training and more training in techniques that work and can be easily explained. E.g you punch, I slip and counter with a hook. You kick, I block and counter with my own kick. You come close, I clinch and throw knees. You grab me, I perform osoto gari. Etc. No super mumbo jumbo theories.
Err... it all depends on skills. Currently, only a few could do it. The rest, at the most, could induce injuries, not do some fancy things as said previously.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:I'm not directing this at you personally, maybe you were told this by someone else, you seem like a nice enough person. If I've offended you in my previous post, I sincerely apologize. But frankly, I don't believe it.
About the same thinking as me. I hardly believe in those crap, until I've experienced it. But at best, I've only experienced my own teacher's skills, not my grandmaster. Though I don't think I want to try.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:Why? Because the people who push these astounding feats of power are always the last ones to step in the ring to put prove their theories. They will give lots of excuses why they cannot step into the ring to fight and prove their powers (because our art will kill you, because we train for peace not for war, because ours is for real fights not for sport, because we believe in discipline and respect for others, etc.) If you can't even win a sport fight in a controlled and safe environment, how can you win a real fight in the streets when you have to account for weapons and multiple attackers? To me, these are just "siam"-ing.
I'm not really sure if money is really a push factor. Also given a fact that these arts only work in close range and requires someone to initiate an attack first, chances are they will not win.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:Why do I think there's no such thing? Because the prize money for winning a K1, Pride or UFC fight is sometimes close to a million bucks. If these arts were real, don't you think the fighters will go learn chi kung and easily dispatch their opponents with just one punch? People are willing to eat all kinds of shit and live on an island for months with other smelly people to win $1 million, winning K1 with one punch should be easy money.
Ignoring their own disciples, you have to go in with an open mind. Before I trained in internal arts, I was trained in external arts. When I first went for the lesson, I wouldn't believe in the crap of internal energies. Someone demonstrated on me, which changed my view. He merely tapped my shoulder. The feeling was extremely different. When a normal person taps your shoulder, you will just feel it, and nothing else.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:These feats of superhuman power are always practiced on or demonstrated on their own disciples, who've been conditioned to believe in this. Against fighters from other physical arts, they don't seem to work. Why is this so?
Theirs was completely different. Yes, you feel it, as per usual. After that (around 1 to 2 seconds later), you will feel pain, which hurt quite a bit. I thought nothing, 1 second later I was shocked by the pain.
Not interested at this stage, plus my skills not good enough. Will be a disgrace.Originally posted by NoRiceBoys:Please don't get your entire school to challenge me to fight. The burden of proof is on you if you claim to be able to do the things you claim. You can go sign up at any muay thai or sanda fight and show to the world the power of your chi kung. Since its so easy to KO a muay thai fighter with just one punch. -
There's no way to tell if someone is skilled in internal arts, until he shows his skills. There's not even a way to tell if they use internal energy on you, until you are injured.Originally posted by Skibi:There are many different kinds of tournaments, but i think the one you are refering to is the technique tournament. People wear protective gear and are not allowed to use internal energy. Points are awarded when vital areas of the opponents body are tapped. If internal energy is used(very obvious) then the person has lost, sometimes even disgraced and banned from the tournament.
I think to rank up in karate at higher levels you are required to chop things? Rank up is not equal to tournament.
An internal art practitioner doesn't train his muscles, so he looks like anybody on the streets. -
Admitted.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Mayi jie jie is wrong again on certain points of Muay Thai. Yes, Muay Thai does grapple and knee but the knee is appearing on the opposite side of the grapple. Hence, your counter-strike will not hit the opponent at full strength as the Muay Thai practitioner will twist his body to knee from the other side and your strike will not hit his centreline. Of course, he will not try the same trick twice so you better make that first counter count.
We are all Chinese martial arts practitioners, only trying out various theories. I wouldn't say we are right, because we are imitating them only. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Where got so powerful? -_-
owl want to fu[b]ck mayi jie jie? Be careful she send you flying away first.
[/b] -
External arts and internal arts complements each other. None is superior over the other.Originally posted by fireball_smith:Nothing can beat Genuine Internal Kong Fu,Nothing in your ufc matches.
I like to watch the ufc & see the so called fighters who suffer from frail bodys(easily injured bones ) & early baldness,a sign they have low level Yang Chi
External trains techniques, internal trains health. -
Hmm... can elaborate more? On the stance part. In theory, I think it's workable, but in reality, I don't think it's possible.Originally posted by NewAge:Dear Christoffel,
What u said is right! Honestly i still do not know what to do if a bjj guy come at me. I ask a master what to do at such situation. He told me to siam that guy when her try to grapple me and that is where the foot work come in. He also mentioned about the stance in which if a grappler successfully cross he can only get hold of a single leg. If u are able to sunk correctly u shld not loose yr balance. at the instance u shld know what to do lah dont need me to elaborate right? -
A grapple goes low below yr waist to try to lift u off yr feet. When u sunk into yr back leg yr front leg which he grasps will be empty thus he will be unable to tumble u immediately. When he grasp yr leg he exposes his head so at the instance hit it. Anyway letting him grab u is the last thing u want to do since he is superior on the ground so learn yr footstep, triangle and lines well. Till now i still cant grasp all the triangle thingy.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Hmm... can elaborate more? On the stance part. In theory, I think it's workable, but in reality, I don't think it's possible. -
It's related to your footwork if I'm not wrong, for the triangle thing.Originally posted by NewAge:A grapple goes low below yr waist to try to lift u off yr feet. When u sunk into yr back leg yr front leg which he grasps will be empty thus he will be unable to tumble u immediately. When he grasp yr leg he exposes his head so at the instance hit it. Anyway letting him grab u is the last thing u want to do since he is superior on the ground so learn yr footstep, triangle and lines well. Till now i still cant grasp all the triangle thingy.
Hmm... I could try it out one day on the sinking part. -
it is related to foot work in a certain way but mostly it shows ppl the lines of attackOriginally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:It's related to your footwork if I'm not wrong, for the triangle thing.
Hmm... I could try it out one day on the sinking part.