Laptops
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if i were to tell u that i was a victim of receiving a bad unit of the notebook from Dell before how will it go? i got a few dead pixels from that unit and i cannot connect to the internet. turns out that i could only connect after a clean format. definitely someone has toyed with that unit before and made all the default settings inaccessible for online connection.Originally posted by rmyfrm:This is a groundless accusation and reflects your narrow-mindedness.
Let me explain the Dell build process briefly:
1) You place your order - order is sent to the factory
2) Parts are picked out from their warehouses and sent to the factory.
3) The machine is built, tested and gets software installed.
4) Shipped to your door
During the build process, you can track your order at any point in time through their online order status check.
FYI: If your Dell laptop does turn out to be a lemon (and only very rarely does that happen), you can definitely return it and get a full refund, OR get an exchange. I know that Dell will exchange even for the most minor of things, e.g. light leakage
I'm not a big fan of Dell, but I do believe in thinking/checking facts before speaking.
EDIT: Mistakes in sentence structure.
EDIT EDIT: In any case, Dell wouldn't specifically "target" you - why would they? Dell doesn't hope to just sell computers once to each customer; they hope you'll actually return to buy more - and trust me, a good number (and a rather large percentage) of their customer base are indeed returning customers (or corporations)
as a manufacturer of course Dell would want to keep up the good reputation and hope customers come back again to buy their products but its the system that may allow loopholes and human errors or negligence to occur.
FYI some or most forumers here know how OEMs operate, all those testing and packing prior to shipment. But if i am a notebook buyer and notebook being a highly portable device, i will do all i can to go test out the model/s on display, then call the sales assistant to bring out a new set of the model i want, test (again) it prior to buying it. If Dell has it this way why not, buy from them if i like a specific model.
The hassle of returning and receiving a new unit again is not what the customer wants. Even if you have a good RMA system and reasonable lead time for replacement the hurt has already been done. -
I agree. I have found Dell's CS to be absolutely incompetent. However, I must once again state that this is probably a rare occurence; in any case I'm surprised they did not offer you any freebies. This is my 3rd Dell - they screwed up this order but are giving me roughly $400 worth of free upgrades (+ another $150 in free items - wireless router + colour kit + mouse + bag) in compensation for the two weeks of hell I've endured from their CS.Originally posted by pipipopo:if i were to tell u that i was a victim of receiving a bad unit of the notebook from Dell before how will it go? i got a few dead pixels from that unit and i cannot connect to the internet. turns out that i could only connect after a clean format. definitely someone has toyed with that unit before and made all the default settings inaccessible for online connection.
as a manufacturer of course Dell would want to keep up the good reputation and hope customers come back again to buy their products but its the system that may allow loopholes and human errors or negligence to occur.
FYI some or most forumers here know how OEMs operate, all those testing and packing prior to shipment. But if i am a notebook buyer and notebook being a highly portable device, i will do all i can to go test out the model/s on display, then call the sales assistant to bring out a new set of the model i want, test (again) it prior to buying it. If Dell has it this way why not, buy from them if i like a specific model.
The hassle of returning and receiving a new unit again is not what the customer wants. Even if you have a good RMA system and reasonable lead time for replacement the hurt has already been done.
Indeed if you just want a one off purchase with no worries - then I must say I agree that it would be better to just go to the shops (note the higher price as well). -
yours a typical 'gianpeng' style. even if they giv me freebies its pointless. i alreasy have all the items they give as freebies and any more freebies from obsolete stocks and advertising goods means rubbish to me. And i am laughing my butts out when you even dare to write "2 weeks of hell you endured.." with your experiences and my incident will anyone call it an isolated case now? yeh anyone could, just like what u did. and what about the Dell batteries? Isolated case again?Originally posted by rmyfrm:I agree. I have found Dell's CS to be absolutely incompetent. However, I must once again state that this is probably a rare occurence; in any case I'm surprised they did not offer you any freebies. This is my 3rd Dell - they screwed up this order but are giving me roughly $400 worth of free upgrades (+ another $150 in free items - wireless router + colour kit + mouse + bag) in compensation for the two weeks of hell I've endured from their CS.
Indeed if you just want a one off purchase with no worries - then I must say I agree that it would be better to just go to the shops (note the higher price as well).
i want a one off purchase because i want something that work and quality means value for money the years ahead. and if you are too engrossed with online shopping retails stand the risk of losing sales when they start jacking up their prices because other OEMs (e.g Acer) have their standard configuration and prices list too. -
As I stated, only on my third order did any screw ups happen ~ I don't think its fair to just judge Dell based on the few negative experiences we've had. Actually, they gave me $400 of upgrades in that, I'm getting new processor, new memory (higher freq + double the size), higher performance hdd etc. etc.Originally posted by pipipopo:yours a typical 'gianpeng' style. even if they giv me freebies its pointless. i alreasy have all the items they give as freebies and any more freebies from obsolete stocks and advertising goods means rubbish to me. And i am laughing my butts out when you even dare to write "2 weeks of hell you endured.." with your experiences and my incident will anyone call it an isolated case now? yeh anyone could, just like what u did. and what about the Dell batteries? Isolated case again?
i want a one off purchase because i want something that work and quality means value for money the years ahead. and if you are too engrossed with online shopping retails stand the risk of losing sales when they start jacking up their prices because other OEMs (e.g Acer) have their standard configuration and prices list too.
I also purchased the laptop for school, but I don't think that few weeks (most likely day or two for others) of use will come to much hassle and trouble for anyone such that it warrants whines/complaints about the difficulty of transferring all the data to a new computer (exchange with Dell)
Shit happens, and you probably just got a lemon. Note my computer was not faulty, infact it was perfect on arrival - Dell just built it to the wrong specs.
There is nothing wrong with the work or quality of Dell computers - the mistake was made on CS/Sales side, and that human error is a variable that is present across all industries.
And I must re-emphasize my point - if there are any problems with the laptop e.g. quality, it WILL appear within a year, and you will be able to have it fixed under warranty. These kinda things, even if you bought from a store, you will not be able to tell.
Dell also has a return policy FYI - full refund if unsatisfied - call Dell to enquire.
pipipopo - if you truly needed a laptop to depend on from the first day of use, you yourself should know better than to purchase from Dell - you put yourself in a position of anticipated risk - any reasonable person would be able to tell that with direct sales (with no middle man), there is an increased risk of receiving a lemon.
Edit: You know what the best part of my purchase from Dell was?
Saving $650 (almost $1000 after the free upgrades) in cash as compared if I purchased a HP notebook. Whilst I do not consider Dell any less a brand than Acer (and neither do I consider Cheap-Knockoff-China-Made-Laptops any less a computer), I understand that Singaporeans tend to draw a line between name-brands and plain-brands. I reckon alot of it is in the head and once you get over the initial hurdle of daring to try like I have, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. -
Dell is working to improve itself, so I'm probably not interested in Dell products as of now. For a tech person, brands do matter, as it differentiate between a good lasting product or a product that spoils within a short time frame. For the lay people out there, it's just as important, surely they do want to call the customer service half the time to get their laptop working?
Willing to try is good, but it is seriously a lot of luck. If the experience is bad, it will be hard to convince them again. Just like how you guys say Google is far superior search engine than MSN, when MSN has made huge improvements.
If something is really good, it will get to spread, so do bad things. -
that's bad because on my thrid notebook purchase nothing went wrong because i stood by my way of purchase to ensure nothing screws up.Originally posted by rmyfrm:As I stated, only on my third order did any screw ups happen ~ I don't think its fair to just judge Dell based on the few negative experiences we've had. Actually, they gave me $400 of upgrades in that, I'm getting new processor, new memory (higher freq + double the size), higher performance hdd etc. etc.
this comments is irrelevent to our discussion.Originally posted by rmyfrm:I also purchased the laptop for school, but I don't think that few weeks (most likely day or two for others) of use will come to much hassle and trouble for anyone such that it warrants whines/complaints about the difficulty of transferring all the data to a new computer (exchange with Dell)
yes this is what happens when people take your orders on line. For me this never ever happen when i check the system specification at the retail stores before i cash and carry my notebooks. A mistake at the sales side is enough to wreck the reputation of the product/s they represent. It will be eliminated when you can check your hardware on the spot prior to purchase.Originally posted by rmyfrm:Shit happens, and you probably just got a lemon. Note my computer was not faulty, infact it was perfect on arrival - Dell just built it to the wrong specs.
There is nothing wrong with the work or quality of Dell computers - the mistake was made on CS/Sales side, and that human error is a variable that is present across all industries.
a dead pixel can be spotted on the screen beccause it is a manufacturing flaw when one of the transistor is either at a permanently on/off position. a dead pixel will not grow over time and once its there, its there. by doing my purchase direct at the retail stores, i can insist on not getting that unit with the dead pixel and there's nothing the shop can do. an i also know that if there's a problem withthe hardware configuration and specification on the notebook unit, i can have it fixed on the spot by asking the shop assistant to get me a correct unit. oh yes if a brand new notebbok in the store is taking a long time to access an empty folder i will avoid that unit...who knows what is going on with the hard disk drive in the notebook. as for the refund policy... there will be rules applied and its not like everyday and every little problem you can simply refund the notebook.Originally posted by rmyfrm:And I must re-emphasize my point - if there are any problems with the laptop e.g. quality, it WILL appear within a year, and you will be able to have it fixed under warranty. These kinda things, even if you bought from a store, you will not be able to tell.
Dell also has a return policy FYI - full refund if unsatisfied - call Dell to enquire.
who told you that? i had another computer to back me up. but didn't you just pointed out that that was just an isolated lemon?Originally posted by rmyfrm:pipipopo - if you truly needed a laptop to depend on from the first day of use, you yourself should know better than to purchase from Dell - you put yourself in a position of anticipated risk - any reasonable person would be able to tell that with direct sales (with no middle man), there is an increased risk of receiving a lemon.
i think most likely you will have to draw a line between freebies, 'gianpeng' and name-brands. i reckon its in your head and once you get over the intial hurdle of daring to loose the freebies like i always do, you will be presently surprised.Originally posted by rmyfrm:Edit: You know what the best part of my purchase from Dell was? Saving $650 (almost $1000 after the free upgrades) in cash as compared if I purchased a HP notebook. Whilst I do not consider Dell any less a brand than Acer (and neither do I consider Cheap-Knockoff-China-Made-Laptops any less a computer), I understand that Singaporeans tend to draw a line between name-brands and plain-brands. I reckon alot of it is in the head and once you get over the initial hurdle of daring to try like I have, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. -
Relax, it's only a discussion.
Besides, it's another forumer's thread, not good to fight in his/her thread. -
i will never concede defeat and i dare him to open a thread so that can can discuss there. i trust that he will not start flaming becasue the person who loses the temper first is already the loser. i still stand firm with my believe and my way of purchasing notebooks. this is not some chit chat forum and i trust that forumers here are at least technically inclined with the basics.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Relax, it's only a discussion.
Besides, it's another forumer's thread, not good to fight in his/her thread.
i can only say that if the mod/s have not made their point clear this discussion will carry on no doubt.
my advice to the TS is still - go down to the shops, see and feel the notebook you shall be buying and test that particular set which you are going to take home. if you want freebies, there are roadshows and promotions to check out so just ask around and b kept informed. -
This discussion will carry on no doubt, but minus the flamings. I hate to close a thread that belongs to a user asking for help.Originally posted by pipipopo:i will never concede defeat and i dare him to open a thread so that can can discuss there. i trust that he will not start flaming becasue the person who loses the temper first is already the loser. i still stand firm with my believe and my way of purchasing notebooks. this is not some chit chat forum and i trust that forumers here are at least technically inclined with the basics.
i can only say that if the mod/s have not made their point clear this discussion will carry on no doubt.
my advice to the TS is still - go down to the shops, see and feel the notebook you shall be buying and test that particular set which you are going to take home. if you want freebies, there are roadshows and promotions to check out so just ask around and b kept informed.
While it's still relevant to the discussion, it is somehow getting more and more out of point, with almost no chance of bringing the discussion back.
I would prefer that you and rmyfrm start another thread, or settle this privately through PM since you yourself have admitted that you won't concede defeat.
What you've said made sense, if the threadstarter is a wary buyer. If the threadstarter prefers everything to be hassle-free, then Dell would be the way to go. Any company that lets you order online would be hassle-free, but this means that the product might come with defects, due to lots of factors like shipping, human errors, etc. -
I think you got me wrong - my only intention is to prove that Dell is not necessarily as bad as you think. My only objection was your gross and overt remarks against Dell.Originally posted by pipipopo:i will never concede defeat and i dare him to open a thread so that can can discuss there. i trust that he will not start flaming becasue the person who loses the temper first is already the loser. i still stand firm with my believe and my way of purchasing notebooks. this is not some chit chat forum and i trust that forumers here are at least technically inclined with the basics.
i can only say that if the mod/s have not made their point clear this discussion will carry on no doubt.
my advice to the TS is still - go down to the shops, see and feel the notebook you shall be buying and test that particular set which you are going to take home. if you want freebies, there are roadshows and promotions to check out so just ask around and b kept informed.
Matter of fact, I did advise the threadstarter to go to the shops and have a look - please see my posts on page 1.
Threadstarter asked about Dell notebooks, I merely responded in a fair manner which pointed that they were fine manufacturers.
That's when you came in with your accusations against Dell. I merely rebutted them in defense of Dell.
In any case, I do not get paid to defend Dell, and I definitely do not have to. I'm just being fair and helpful by pointing out to the threadstarter and for all who care to know, that Dell makes fine notebooks.
Forums are for discussions - not for close-ended remarks. I definitely agree with somethings you say as can be seen from my earlier posts, and I believe that despite your persistent denials, I'm sure you agree to some extent with what I say as well. -
settle thru pm
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Great.
Now, revert back to the original discussion. -
i think the TS knows what decision to make. even if he go for a Dell no prob to me. i hope i hav helped many others who may be new to buying a notebook and are lost as to how to go abbout with it.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Great.
Now, revert back to the original discussion.
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In fact, it will be best if you do not close this topic.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:This discussion will carry on no doubt, but minus the flamings. I hate to close a thread that belongs to a user asking for help.
While it's still relevant to the discussion, it is somehow getting more and more out of point, with almost no chance of bringing the discussion back.
I would prefer that you and rmyfrm start another thread, or settle this privately through PM since you yourself have admitted that you won't concede defeat.
What you've said made sense, if the threadstarter is a wary buyer. If the threadstarter prefers everything to be hassle-free, then Dell would be the way to go. Any company that lets you order online would be hassle-free, but this means that the product might come with defects, due to lots of factors like shipping, human errors, etc.
Pipi (my affectionate way of calling pipipopo after having exchanged much with him/her), and myself have been pretty objective in our discussion thus far - which will probably serve as a useful guide to all those interested in purchasing from Dell, demonstrating the pros and cons -
I hope the thread starter will avoid any computer brandsthat ships online at all costs no matter if this is a new or second notebook you are buying. Simply because you need to:-
1) test the notebook which you are going to take home for any configuration errors or adnormal behaviours.
2) check for dead pixels on the LCD screens as dead pixels will not occur over time. If its there, its there and if it happens to appear at the centre of the screen the display will look very bad.
3) if you want freebies you can check out roadshows and promotions. all OEMs have it one time or another and is not only limited to those that sells their hardware online only.
4) do not be tempted into believing that free upgrades of $650/ $1000 are available to you. always check for the upgrade details and conditions written before you buy the notebook. you may even doubt there are upgrades of up to $1000/- available at all.
5) last but not least be wary of notebooks that explodes. -
What pipi has said should be noted. But do not reject online computer shops too fast - especially not a major manufacturer like Dell:
1) If the notebook arrives faulty (highly unlikely as the notebooks are tested before shipping) - Dell will ship a new one out to you in exchange or you can seek a refund - even mere dissatisfaction qualifies.
2) Regarding dead pixels - see (1) regarding dissatisfaction
3) Indeed roadshows give a number of freebies - Dell has none - they have no middleman. But Dell shapes their global supply and demand by fast changes in pricing - i.e. if they decide to run out Core Duos, they'll have a massive price reduction + cash off + free delivery + free memory upgrade + free hdd upgrade etc etc - if you miss out on this, too bad - these happen very quickly and you need to be monitoring the website - pricing changes usually occur every three days
4) Not every time will you get free upgrades of $650/$1000, but it has happened before, and it will happen again. Depends on your luck and timing. It really depends on whether Dell is hitting their projected sales figures - if they're not, they'll have massive reductions + free upgrades just to bump it up and meet their quarterly financial targets.
The last major run-out was when Core 2 Duos came out - Dell had massive sale - for the same price on the website now, you would have received a faster processer, more memory, larger hard drive, free anti-virus, free shipping + delivery (usually not free) + misc. freebies. That's how I got my laptop cheap. and Note: Core 2 Duo and Core Duos do not have major performance differences.
I expect the next run-out will be when the new Core 2 Duo platforms come out which will be next year.
5) Regarding notebook batteries, Dell has since switched suppliers - matter of fact, Sony was never Dell's only supplier. It really depends on your luck, your batch. In any case, Dell is not the only manufacturer affected by the recall, but as one of the largest selling manufacturers, they were definitely one of the worst hit.
6) Just because you buy online, does not mean you won't get warranty. There's an interesting difference. When my HP crapped out, I had to bring it to a service centre. When my Dell dvd drive crapped out, 2 technicians came to my house and resolved the issue.
But I must fairly point out, as I have earlier, Dell has HORRID CS. They are polite but absolutely incompetent. You will spend hours on the phone with them just trying to get them to understand your problem.
7) There is alot that can be gained both ways when you look at the different brands and their methods of delivery - you can gain immediate reliability (through your own affirmation of the quality when purchasing first hand), or you can gain huge savings (at the risk of initial quality being not there, albeit a very low one) - be objective and decide what best suits you.
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With regards to what pipi said, I completely agree. It is entirely reasonable to purchase notebooks from shops. It really depends on what you want.
There is a major computer fair coming up soon - I don't know what (I'm not even in Singapore), that will be the best time to purchase, and negotiate for the brand name notebooks. -
Originally posted by pipipopo:i think the TS knows what decision to make. even if he go for a Dell no prob to me. i hope i hav helped many others who may be new to buying a notebook and are lost as to how to go abbout with it.
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I have no intention of closing it. Luckily, you guys settle it peacefully, if not I become guilty person.Originally posted by rmyfrm:In fact, it will be best if you do not close this topic.
Pipi (my affectionate way of calling pipipopo after having exchanged much with him/her), and myself have been pretty objective in our discussion thus far - which will probably serve as a useful guide to all those interested in purchasing from Dell, demonstrating the pros and cons -
Regarding dead pixels, company policies differ. Some companies only offer an exchange or refund if more than 3 dead pixels are found. If you insist on changing, you might have to pay.
That's one thing you have to take note of. Ask the sales person about their company policy first before purchasing, otherwise, you might find yourself at the losing end.
Next, about exploding batteries. My advice would be to try not to use the battery if you are connected to a power source. This would greatly reduces the chance of an exploding battery.
Whether you want to buy online or offline, it's wise to read up or ask about their company policies, check out their warranty terms and conditions (some companies do list it, like Acer) and read the fine print.
Since the threadstarter is more of a general user, almost all laptop-making companies are able to satisfy your needs. If you want something that lasts long, it will be reasonable to go for well known brands like IBM, though they are expensive. If you are thinking of upgrading every few years when technology evolves, it might be more sensible to buy a PC, since it's cheaper and upgrading is easier. -
Avoid online computer brands because
1) If the notebook arrives faulty (likely as the notebooks though are tested before shipping but are not tested for its entire lifespend), shipping a new one out to you in exchange means they will circulate the bad ones to the next customer who pick up the unit. A full refund is almost impossible if the flaw or defect on the notebook do not fit the manufacturer's terms and conditions.
2) Regarding dead pixels, if you get one you may still not be able to return because their policy may be 3 or more dead pixel before you can return.
3) Indeed roadshows give a number of freebies - online stores have none - they have no middleman but evens their profits by charging everything to tthe shipping costs. It will definitely be more expensive than your single trip cab fares. Online stores shapes their global supply and demand by fast changes in pricing - i.e. if they decide to run out Core Duos, they'll have a massive price reduction + cash off + free delivery + free memory upgrade + free hdd upgrade etc etc - if you miss out on this, too bad - these happen very quickly and you need to be monitoring the website - pricing changes usually occur every three days. but to wait for this to happen its like waiting for the blue moon to appear. if they decide to run out the core duo to pump in all the freebies, they will have to wait for the ram and hdd models and config to run out too because to put them in free costs money too. these are just gimmicks online stores put in to sell they recirculated fautly sub standard notebooks.
4) Not every time will you get free upgrades of $650/$1000, but it has happened before, and it will happen again. Depends on your luck and timing. It really depends on whether the online store is hitting their projected sales figures - if they're not, they'll have massive reductions + free upgrades just to bump it up and meet their quarterly financial targets. however, these are influnced by many factores including the market trends. so do youwant to wait until then before you can get to use a notebook or replace that old/ faulty unit you hav there on your lap?
The last major run-out was when Core 2 Duos came out - Dell had massive sale - for the same price on the website now, you would have received a faster processer, more memory, larger hard drive, free anti-virus, free shipping + delivery (usually not free) + misc. freebies. That's how someone got its laptop cheap. and Note: Core 2 Duo and Core Duos do not have major performance differences....well i will proof that once i got my hands on benchmarks tests and reviews and reports from ttrusted source or people.
I expect the next run-out will be when the new Core 2 Duo platforms come out which will be next year so please guys hand in there and support online stores.
5) Regarding notebook batteries, online stores have since switched suppliers - matter of fact, Sony was never the online store's only supplier. It really depends on your luck, your batch. In any case, the online store is not the only manufacturer affected by the recall, but as one of the largest selling manufacturers, they were definitely one of the worst hit. bad because of their returns now every other notebook manufacturers who hav good working batteries hav to return the batteries too for they fear that they will take the place of the manufacturer that sells what terrorists made.
6) Just because you buy online, does not mean you won't get warranty. but come to think of it all OEMs ffer warranties. There's an interesting difference. When my HP crapped out, I had to bring it to a service centre. When my Dell dvd drive crapped out, 2 technicians came to my house and resolved the issue. i guess the techicians must be too free with no jobs to do to ever be authorised to make a trip down to the client's location to servie a highly portable DVD drive...i guess it happens often so technicians hav to be on standby to make their customers happy in the event of DVD crapping out.
But I must fairly point out, as I have earlier, online stores has HORRID CS. They are polite but absolutely incompetent. You will spend hours on the phone with them just trying to get them to understand your problem because you never ask to speak with the techical guy instead u spoke to the sales representative. failing to understand they arrow their technicians down to look at the crappy DVD hot swappable drive.
7) There is alot that can be gained both ways when you look at the different brands and their methods of delivery - you can gain immediate reliability (through your own affirmation of the quality when purchasing first hand), or you can gain huge savings (at the risk of initial quality being not there, albeit a very low one) - be objective and decide what best suits you...oh what sh it i just worte...nevermind.
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i really can't agree wif online stores....but its just me so you decide if things can actually be so sweet and dear in life.
There is a major computer fair coming up ..... oh who cares -
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yeh sounds sensibleOriginally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Regarding dead pixels, company policies differ. Some companies only offer an exchange or refund if more than 3 dead pixels are found. If you insist on changing, you might have to pay.
That's one thing you have to take note of. Ask the sales person about their company policy first before purchasing, otherwise, you might find yourself at the losing end.
Next, about exploding batteries. My advice would be to try not to use the battery if you are connected to a power source. This would greatly reduces the chance of an exploding battery.
Whether you want to buy online or offline, it's wise to read up or ask about their company policies, check out their warranty terms and conditions (some companies do list it, like Acer) and read the fine print.
Since the threadstarter is more of a general user, almost all laptop-making companies are able to satisfy your needs. If you want something that lasts long, it will be reasonable to go for well known brands like IBM, though they are expensive. If you are thinking of upgrading every few years when technology evolves, it might be more sensible to buy a PC, since it's cheaper and upgrading is easier. -
The crux of it all is
do research and have a good grasp of the item you want to buy.
Personally. i would use 6 months of product study(online and SLS) to decide which specific range i'm going to get.
I nearly wanted Dell as well, but was turn off by the weight and size.
My friend bought a laptop from them, so far good. But the system is still unstable.
Could be due to 1st Gen Duo Core chip.
I'd still suggest dell to those who wants budget PC or Notebook.
Sonny VAIOs is a no go. Cannot make it and expensive.
Each brands of products have their strength, so once again.
Research. -
Another budget brand is Acer. Try the Acer Aspire 5551AWXMi at S$1898.