Jesus never abolished the Law!!!
-
but then you say you follow Yeshua? so Yeshua said that Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and strengh and love your neighbour as your self. On these hang the LAW and the prophets.Originally posted by Jamison:Is this not clear enough? Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:24-25 What Law is he referring to? Was it only the Ceremonial Law that you call that Paul is referring here? The "Ceremonial Law" leads us to the Savior. Or was it only the 10 Commandments that Paul was referring here? Paul elsewhere clearly writes that all of these leads to Christ. The 10 commandments made the Jews aware that they are sinners and that lack righteousness. The "Ceremonial Law" (that you call) made them aware of that they need forgiveness of sins. Are these not the things that Jesus gave sinners? Righteousness and Forgiveness of sins? The Law (all of them) leads to Christ. But after Christ has come in the life of the sinner is he still under it? No. "But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. How then will we serve God? Ro 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Why do I keep emphasising that we are to know and obesrve the law? No we are no longer under the law, that would mean that we are slaves to it. Being under the law means that we are trying to get saved through keeping the law. It means we are not trusting in what Yeshua did for us and so are trying to achieve righteousness through our own works. Another word for this is legalism. Which is not what I am advocating. It is a very fine line.
Shaul says that the law shows us what sin is, it shows us what is right and wrong. Rom3:20 and Rom 7:7. The law exposes sin in our lives, it cannot save us. Only repentance and faith in Yeshua can. Legalism is the curse that we have been set free from. Legalism is a misuse of the law. We are never supposed to be "under the law" trying to achieve our own righteousness. However we are called to fulfill the law in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Understand that freedom is not the do whatever we want. REAL freedom is the ability to do what is RIGHT. If we are saved through faith in Yeshua, and then live in willful disobedience to the Law, we are living in sin. This is called lawlessness. 1 John 3:4 states very clearly that everyone who sins breaks the law, sin is lawlessness. Yeshua says in Matthew 7:21-23, lawless people cannot inherit the kingdom of Yahweh.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Legalism is a misuse of the law. Lawlessness is to rebel against the law. The right way is through Yahweh's holy word and instruction. We are in a new covenant where we obey Yahweh's laws in the power of the Holy Spirit. -
did i ever say i am for sinless perfection? your question came from my statement Christians died to sin which i got from Paul. You argue with Paul:Originally posted by breytonhartge:so then you agree that there is not perfect sinlessness, so what then convicts you of the sin that remains?
Ro 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Ro 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Is Paul saying here that Christians can be perfectly righteous? of course not!!! -
so then answer the second question, what convicts you of the sin? and then answer this one... what is the spirit guided by? What guides the Holy Spirit who is guiding you?Originally posted by Jamison:did i ever say i am for sinless perfection? your question came from my statement Christians died to sin which i got from Paul. You argue with Paul:
Ro 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Ro 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Is Paul saying here that Christians can be perfectly righteous? of course not!!! -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Yeah
but then you say you follow Yeshua? so Yeshua said that Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and strengh and love your neighbour as your self. On these hang the LAW and the prophets.
Yes, we follow Jesus commands not Moses' commands. The new commandment of Jesus is infinitely higher than Moses'. Moses said: and love your neighbour as your self, he told that to Israel. The Christians after the Holy Spirit has indwelt them are given a new commandment: Joh 15:12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you
Which is higher, loving other people like we love ourselves or loving people like Jesus loved us?
Why do I keep emphasising that we are to know and obesrve the law? No we are no longer under the law, that would mean that we are slaves to it. Being under the law means that we are trying to get saved through keeping the law.
Hoho........i disagree. Paul disagrees with you: Ga 3:2 Give me an answer to this one question, Did the Spirit come to you through the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? having made a start in the Spirit, will you now be made complete in the flesh? Galatians fell into the error of legalism. They absorbed the doctrines of Judaizers like you to be justified by faith + Law and sanctified by faith + Law
It means we are not trusting in what Yeshua did for us and so are trying to achieve righteousness through our own works. Another word for this is legalism. Which is not what I am advocating. It is a very fine line.
Ga 3:3 Are you so foolish? having made a start in the Spirit, will you now be made complete in the flesh?
Shaul says that the law shows us what sin is, it shows us what is right and wrong. Rom3:20 and Rom 7:7. The law exposes sin in our lives, it cannot save us. Only repentance and faith in Yeshua can. Legalism is the curse that we have been set free from.
Legalism is not the curse of the Law
Legalism is a misuse of the law. We are never supposed to be "under the law" trying to achieve our own righteousness. However we are called to fulfill the law in the power of the Holy Spirit.
All 9 of the 10 commandments are carried into the commands of grace in the New Testament. When we walk in the Spirit, when we keep our focus on Christ letting Him drive and control our lives, we spontaneously emit the righteous requirements of the Law. The Law was a shadow of Jesus, the Savior. What the Law was Jesus is.
Understand that freedom is not the do whatever we want. REAL freedom is the ability to do what is RIGHT. If we are saved through faith in Yeshua, and then live in willful disobedience to the Law, we are living in sin.
Our law is the Law of Jesus. The Law of Love. The more we know Jesus and His grace, the better we know how we can let His life live in us. We fix our eyes on Jesus not on the Law and when we do that (focusing on Jesus) we examine our lives, and we will just realize that this is just what the Law requires!!!! We focus on the Law, we can't obey it. We focus on Jesus (our Law), the righteous requirements of the Law is fulfilled in us. 2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
This is called lawlessness. 1 John 3:4 states very clearly that everyone who sins breaks the law, sin is lawlessness. Yeshua says in Matthew 7:21-23, lawless people cannot inherit the kingdom of Yahweh.
Being under grace is not lawlessness in fact it is freedom from sin and the Law (which is the strength of sin) . Ro 6:14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be!
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has come, giving salvation to all men,
12 Training us so that, turning away from evil and the desires of this world, we may be living wisely and uprightly in the knowledge of God in this present life;
Again let me quote someone: The Bible clearly teaches in many places that a Christian is not under the law of Moses. Those who insist that we are under the law of Moses mistakenly claim that without the law of Moses you give a licenses to sin. What they donÂ’t realize is that just because Christians are not under the law of Moses doesnÂ’t mean they are without divine law. Think about it for a moment, people from Adam to Moses were without the law of Moses, yet God gave them commands to follow as previously shown above. Some of the laws given to those from Adam to Moses were similar to those given in the Mosaic law, such as murder. Yet others were complete opposites such as the eating of clean and unclean animals. There were two different laws to govern two different groups of people. The same is true today, Christians are not under the law of Moses, they are under the law of Christ which is love. Therefore the divine law for Christians is the law of love. If we love God as we should then we would never sin against Him. If we love our neighbors and enemies as we should then we would never sin against them. The law of love is far superior to the law of Moses. The law of Moses was an external list of 613 doÂ’s and donÂ’t which one could be forced to follow to a certain degree even if their heart was not in it. On the other hand the law of love covers every conceivable sin one can commit and those who obey do so from the heart because true love comes from the heart. This is why love is the greatest law and fulfills the law and the prophets. Christians do not commit murder, adultery, lies etc. because it is against the law of love, not because it is a violation of the Mosaic law. We obey righteousness because we are under the law of Christ, not as incorrectly claimed by some that we are under the law of Moses
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, [b]you who practice lawlessness!’
Legalism is a misuse of the law. Lawlessness is to rebel against the law. The right way is through Yahweh's holy word and instruction. We are in a new covenant where we obey Yahweh's laws in the power of the Holy Spirit. [/b]
Paul was also accused of two things because of his teaching on grace (that we are not under law but under grace) He was accused of license to sin: Ro 6:1 What may we say, then? are we to go on in sin so that there may be more grace? He went on explaining No, you can't live in sin you died to it. He was accused of lawlessness: Ro 6:15 What then? are we to go on in sin because we are not under law but under grace? Let it not be so!!! He went on explaining that we may not be under the Law becaused we died to it but we are under Christ who is a higher law, married to him.
The administration of the law started at Sinai and ended at the cross. The Law is for Jews exclusively. What you are quoting are directed to the Jews still under the administration of the Law (Old covenant). After the cross a new administration began, the administration of Grace.
Eph 2:15 And in his human nature put an end to the cause of enmity between them--the Law with its injunctions and ordinances--in order to create, through union with himself, from Jew and Gentile, one New Man and thus make peace.
Col 2:14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. You don't belong to Israel, you belong to the Christian administration (His kindness to non-jews like us) -
You mis-understand, I never said that I was justified and sanctified by faith and law. I am justified and sanctified by faith in Yeshua, through grace.Originally posted by Jamison:They absorbed the doctrines of Judaizers like you to be justified by faith + Law and sanctified by faith + Law
But because I am justified and sanctified, I keep Yeshua's laws.
You are very contradictory, you say you believe in the law but are not under the law, yet you claim to be under the law of Yeshua. How do you reconcile that position?