Christianity=Idolatory?
-
has christianity gone the way that Yahweh has said not to go? this might be a better question... ? dunno.Originally posted by charlize:Idolatory as in what?
Worshipping titanium structures and high end surround sound systems?
Vince what do you think? -
I would prefer to wait for Yaffa's answer before answering this questionOriginally posted by breytonhartge:has christianity gone the way that Yahweh has said not to go? this might be a better question... ? dunno.
Vince what do you think?
-
brey words just rang something in my mind
you guys know of the latest shooting in an Amish school?
then CNN shows a documentary on the Amish people
they live their life almost to the bible
i wonder who else can really do that -
the jews?Originally posted by laurence82:brey words just rang something in my mind
you guys know of the latest shooting in an Amish school?
then CNN shows a documentary on the Amish people
they live their life almost to the bible
i wonder who else can really do that
Yeah, that was all over the news... really sad.
Lots of shootings in the states... -
ok... so can Yaffa please give an answer...Originally posted by vince69:I would prefer to wait for Yaffa's answer before answering this question 
-
Christians claim to worship Christ, just like in other religions, woshippers or believers of those religions pray to the idols or gods they believe in and walk in related ways.Originally posted by vince69:hmmm...
may I request that you kindly rephrase your question to be more specific? Its not easy to reply to an open ended question such as this.
oh, since I am here, can you also include your view to this question?
Thanks
However, if Christians are not emulating Christ, then have they just created in their own heads their own ideas of Christ and are worshipping that instead of who He really is? In this case, are they then just practising a form of idol worship?
-
Originally posted by charlize:Idolatory as in what?
Worshipping titanium structures and high end surround sound systems?
Don't forget the pastors, leaders, etc... -
Originally posted by charlize:Idolatory as in what?
Worshipping titanium structures and high end surround sound systems?
Don't forget the popes, pastors, leaders, etc... -
this sounds so much clearer... Thanks, Yaffa.Originally posted by Yaffa:Christians claim to worship Christ, just like in other religions, woshippers or believers of those religions pray to the idols or gods they believe in and walk in related ways.
However, if Christians are not emulating Christ, then have they just created in their own heads their own ideas of Christ and are worshipping that instead of who He really is? In this case, are they then just practising a form of idol worship?
on this note,
Christian do claims to belong to Christ, but our relationship with Christ differ to that that is between woshippers/believers of other religions.
yes, I do agree with you that there are "christians" (not sure how to refer to them as), who are in actual facts non-christians (they may claim to be a believer, when they may not in be in practice). -
my question now is what about mainstream christianity? do they not also do the same thing?Originally posted by vince69:this sounds so much clearer... Thanks, Yaffa.
on this note,
Christian do claims to belong to Christ, but our relationship with Christ differ to that that is between woshippers/believers of other religions.
yes, I do agree with you that there are "christians" (not sure how to refer to them as), who are in actual facts non-christians (they may claim to be a believer, when they may not in be in practice).
think about it, we are commanded that we are to keep the shabbat on saturday, but all christians keep sunday as the lords day, yet no where in the bible are we commanded to keep sunday as the day of rest, a HOLY convocation. There is only one day that is sanctified and made HOLY, the seventh day and it is on this day that we are invited by Yahweh to come and rest...
We are commanded to keep the feasts of the Lord, yet the churches teach otherwise.... and the list can go on and on and on...
If we ask the question who is Yahweh, can the churches give an accurate answer??
-
I am not trying to pick another fight or anything along those lines.Originally posted by breytonhartge:my question now is what about mainstream christianity? do they not also do the same thing?
think about it, we are commanded that we are to keep the shabbat on saturday, but all christians keep sunday as the lords day, yet no where in the bible are we commanded to keep sunday as the day of rest, a HOLY convocation. There is only one day that is sanctified and made HOLY, the seventh day and it is on this day that we are invited by Yahweh to come and rest...
We are commanded to keep the feasts of the Lord, yet the churches teach otherwise.... and the list can go on and on and on...
If we ask the question who is Yahweh, can the churches give an accurate answer??
Let's look at this objectively.... the church has been immersed with the traditions for so long. Getting them to change overnight is NOT possible.
You're probably going to say - they should have known better. Yeah, we should all know better.... but I've said this before, hindsight is 20/20.
Just because someone's gone "wrong" somewhere, sometime, it does not mean that the current worshippers do not attempt to honour God. Most of them may not be even aware of such deep studies or has access to such "deeper truth" (pun unintended).
We can all look at the "practices" and condemn them, but would we look at the heart and look at the fervency?
So at the end of the day, we should stop condemning and start the healing....
I've asked you before, what do/can you do about it? Bearing in mind that these "practices" are far reaching and deep, and that some believers are not even literate.
I don't know..... most believers may not even know that such practices are deemed "wrong".... so if their hearts are innocent, would God condemn them....???
Bu3 Zhi1 Ze3 Bu2 Jui1 - he who does not know, is innocent. -
Brey,Originally posted by breytonhartge:my question now is what about mainstream christianity? do they not also do the same thing?
think about it, we are commanded that we are to keep the shabbat on saturday, but all christians keep sunday as the lords day, yet no where in the bible are we commanded to keep sunday as the day of rest, a HOLY convocation. There is only one day that is sanctified and made HOLY, the seventh day and it is on this day that we are invited by Yahweh to come and rest...
We are commanded to keep the feasts of the Lord, yet the churches teach otherwise.... and the list can go on and on and on...
If we ask the question who is Yahweh, can the churches give an accurate answer??
Yes, its commentable to be able to keep the proper sabbath on (friday evening to saturday evening), and all the Lord's feast.
yes, we need to be understanding enough that not everyone is able to do this. hence in these cases, imposing this requirement on them will be like putting onto them a yoke of accussation.
its eventually boils down to what does the Lord requires of us.
1) To worship the Lord with all our hearts and mind (To walk humbly before the Lord, To honor him with our work and deeds, To trust in Him alone)
2) To Love our neighbours as our own (To minister to each other, To help the poor, the sick, the weak, the broken hearted ...etc)
yes, we had failed many times, the churches may have their short coming too, but when trying to do good and we fell short, there will be grace sufficient enough to lift us up to continiue on.
shalom. -
sighhh....
-
Vince,Originally posted by vince69:Brey,
Yes, its commentable to be able to keep the proper sabbath on (friday evening to saturday evening), and all the Lord's feast.
yes, we need to be understanding enough that not everyone is able to do this. hence in these cases, imposing this requirement on them will be like putting onto them a yoke of accussation.
its eventually boils down to what does the Lord requires of us.
1) To worship the Lord with all our hearts and mind (To walk humbly before the Lord, To honor him with our work and deeds, To trust in Him alone)
2) To Love our neighbours as our own (To minister to each other, To help the poor, the sick, the weak, the broken hearted ...etc)
yes, we had failed many times, the churches may have their short coming too, but when trying to do good and we fell short, there will be grace sufficient enough to lift us up to continiue on.
shalom.
We are not asked whether we can or cannot keep Shabbat. We are commanded to keep it. I did not impose this requirement on them. Yahweh did. If we read the NT, even Shaul did not waver from keeping Shabbat and he did not instruct any of the gentiles differently. The only exceptions then were 1) no immediate need for circumcision, 2) do not eat food offered to idols and 3) abstain from sexual imorality. Amongst the believers Shabbat was still kept in the synagogues on Shabbat. The keeping of Shabbat is not an imposition or a yoke. It only becomes one when the person or persons decide not to follow the commandments of Yahweh.
You make the point of worshipping Yahweh with all our hearts, mind and if I am not wrong scripture also says strength. So by not keeping Shabbat, are you then worshipping Yahweh with all your heart, mind and strength? Make not mistake, sunday is not holy neither are any other days holy the only day which Yahweh has sanctified and made holy is shabbat, and we are commanded to keep it.
Exodus 16:23
Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’”
Exodus 16:29
See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”
Exodus 20:8
“ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exodus 31:13
“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Exodus 31:16
Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 19:30
‘You shall keep My Sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 23:3
[ The Sabbath ] ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
Numbers 15:32-36
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Deuteronomy 5:12
‘ Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Isaiah 58:12-14 (New King James Version)
12 Those from among you
Shall build the old waste places;
You shall raise up the foundations of many generations;
And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach,
The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In.
13 “ If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the LORD honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
Ezekiel 20:20
hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.Â’
Matthew 24:20
And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
Mark 6:2
And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, “Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!
Luke 13:10
Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.
John 19:31
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Acts 13:14
But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.
Acts 13:44
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
There are many many more verses... but it is clear that Shabbat is not to be kept at our convenience, there is only ONE day and ONE day alone. The Yoke of Yahweh is light and not burdensome.
Are we not adopted children of Yahweh, part of the commonwealth of Israel? Then our duty to Yahweh is clear. Keeping Shabbat on the seventh day is not an option, it is a requirement.
Leviticus 19:37
37 ‘Therefore you shall observe all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them: I am the LORD.’” -
My wife and I were reading the bible and this passage jumped out at us.
Leviticus 20:22-26
22 ‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out. 23 And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them. 24 But I have said to you, “You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.
We keep the statutes and the commandments, because Yahweh is the LORD our GOD. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Let's look at this objectively.... the church has been immersed with the traditions for so long. Getting them to change overnight is NOT possible.
You're probably going to say - they should have known better. Yeah, we should all know better.... but I've said this before, hindsight is 20/20.
Just because someone's gone "wrong" somewhere, sometime, it does not mean that the current worshippers do not attempt to honour God. Most of them may not be even aware of such deep studies or has access to such "deeper truth" (pun unintended).
We can all look at the "practices" and condemn them, but would we look at the heart and look at the fervency?
It is a process, and everybody has to start somewhere, so consider DT a starting poing for all those who are reading and understanding or who have never heard this before, this is the reason for DT. IF your heart and fervency are genuine, it would ultimately lead you to keep the right thing. Heart and fervency count for nothing if you are doing the wrong thing. If one is truly so fervent Yahweh will lead you back to Him. The whole of proverbs talks about how important it is to get the truth and wisdom and knowledge. I would say most people have access to the internet, and they all have their bibles... so there is no excuse to say they do not have access to deeper studies or the truth... these studies are not even deeper studies, they are our fundamental basics. They are spelt out very clearly in the bible alone. -
just a quick sharing...
Yesterday I took sometime off to look for a new car... and whilst at the showroom, we were chatting to the salesperson and about to test drive a few cars, the sales person then asked whether we wanted to come back on saturday to further discuss the vehicles as it was getting late and to the close of business... my wife and I said we do not do business on saturday. Immediately the salesperson said this... "are you Jewish"
This meant so much to me because immediately: I was recognised as a child of Yahweh. I was recognised as part of the children of Yahweh. -
meaning to say, aside from DT, there are no other plans?Originally posted by breytonhartge: It is a process, and everybody has to start somewhere, so consider DT a starting poing for all those who are reading and understanding or who have never heard this before, this is the reason for DT.
So according to this, generations of Christians are lost? Isn't that sad?Originally posted by breytonhartge: IF your heart and fervency are genuine, it would ultimately lead you to keep the right thing. Heart and fervency count for nothing if you are doing the wrong thing. If one is truly so fervent Yahweh will lead you back to Him. The whole of proverbs talks about how important it is to get the truth and wisdom and knowledge.
Access of internet is overated. There are heaps of elderly, the uneducated, and the poor that does not have access to this tool.Originally posted by breytonhartge: I would say most people have access to the internet, and they all have their bibles... so there is no excuse to say they do not have access to deeper studies or the truth... these studies are not even deeper studies, they are our fundamental basics. They are spelt out very clearly in the bible alone.
well, as long as you are happy.... it is really not odd for a car sales looking at you, a Chinese baba and recognises you as one who embraces a form of Judaism.Originally posted by breytonhartge:just a quick sharing...
Yesterday I took sometime off to look for a new car... and whilst at the showroom, we were chatting to the salesperson and about to test drive a few cars, the sales person then asked whether we wanted to come back on saturday to further discuss the vehicles as it was getting late and to the close of business... my wife and I said we do not do business on saturday. Immediately the salesperson said this... "are you Jewish"
This meant so much to me because immediately: I was recognised as a child of Yahweh. I was recognised as part of the children of Yahweh.
If that meant anything to you.... I am happy for you. -
BUt the bible is still available... no excuse there... and that is also why pastors are all doubly accountable.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Access of internet is overated. There are heaps of elderly, the uneducated, and the poor that does not have access to this tool. -
of course there are....Originally posted by Chin Eng:meaning to say, aside from DT, there are no other plans?
-
the car sales person was greek, would he know that I believed in Yahweh unless I said that I do not work on saturday? There is nothing that sets apart a christian as one who believes in Yahweh.Originally posted by Chin Eng:well, as long as you are happy.... it is really not odd for a car sales looking at you, a Chinese baba and recognises you as one who embraces a form of Judaism.
If that meant anything to you.... I am happy for you.
I do not embrace judiasm in any way, I keep the commandments and feasts and statues of Yahweh as are written in the bible, in the Holy Scriptures. As should all believers in Yeshua. Otherwise how can the world know that you are His? See my earlier post from Leviticus... -
Yup, unfortunately, you'd say that the Christian bible is also adulterated. Ok lor, no excuses.... all the Christians will burn in hellOriginally posted by breytonhartge:BUt the bible is still available... no excuse there... and that is also why pastors are all doubly accountable. and the world is still unharvested.
.... and they are?????Originally posted by breytonhartge:of course there are....
Actually he probably think that you are embracing Judaism rather than a deeper understanding of Christianity.... whatever it is, I am glad you are happy here.Originally posted by breytonhartge:the car sales person was greek, would he know that I believed in Yahweh unless I said that I do not work on saturday? There is nothing that sets apart a christian as one who believes in Yahweh.
I do not embrace judiasm in any way, I keep the commandments and feasts and statues of Yahweh as are written in the bible, in the Holy Scriptures. As should all believers in Yeshua. Otherwise how can the world know that you are His? See my earlier post from Leviticus... -
Good to hear this.Originally posted by breytonhartge:just a quick sharing...
Yesterday I took sometime off to look for a new car... and whilst at the showroom, we were chatting to the salesperson and about to test drive a few cars, the sales person then asked whether we wanted to come back on saturday to further discuss the vehicles as it was getting late and to the close of business... my wife and I said we do not do business on saturday. Immediately the salesperson said this... "are you Jewish"
This meant so much to me because immediately: I was recognised as a child of Yahweh. I was recognised as part of the children of Yahweh. may your life continues to reflects the beauty of Yeshuah, draws all men to Him. -
Shalom all! Sorry for keeping so quiet after starting this topic... unusually busy the past few weeks.
Just from reading the posts thus far, they reiterate what the topic is about.
Yeshua lived on earth as a faultless Jew fulfilling every bit of the Torah. So when he asked us to follow Him, wouldn't that mean for us to follow His example of how He lived here?
These days, Christians claim to follow Christ, but yet, how can they know who He really is because in the majority of cases, the Torah is not taught to them and are taught that it is obsolete, the "old covenant", so they are unable to fully appreciate who Yeshua is and what He taught while He was on earth, since He constantly referred to the Torah.
So if they have a foreign concept of who Christ is, then in their worshipping of who they formulate Christ to be, out of either erroneous teaching or ignorance, has Christ just become an idol to them? -
see my topic on hell... or the lack thereof...Originally posted by Chin Eng:Yup, unfortunately, you'd say that the Christian bible is also adulterated. Ok lor, no excuses.... all the Christians will burn in hell and the world is still unharvested.