G_d three distinct persons?? Really??
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Yahweh is not three distinct persons. It is very very clear, Yahweh is ONE GOD. Hence I always post:Originally posted by laoda99:God is three distinct persons.
Campy, I suggest u attend classes in your own church regarding the trinity. Mebbe u can join those pre-baptism classes which gives u a study in Christology and other essential beliefs in Christianity.
My pre-baptism class helped me a lot.
Shema Israel Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad. What is so hard to understand?
Hear O Israel the LORD thy GOD is ONE. -
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! -
How come you believe in Yeshua but not the three persons?
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see above answer...Originally posted by Icemoon:How come you believe in Yeshua but not the three persons? -
I see no answer .. just the Shema.Originally posted by breytonhartge:see above answer... -
Deut 6:4 which is the Shema. That is my answer. It is clear, Yahweh Himself says, Hear O Israel, the LORD THY G_D IS ONE!Originally posted by Icemoon:I see no answer .. just the Shema. -
Of course God is one! Even the church fathers thought so.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Deut 6:4 which is the Shema. That is my answer. It is clear, Yahweh Himself says, Hear O Israel, the LORD THY G_D IS ONE!Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human. -
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so then icy we agree, Hashem is one.
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Nope .. I asked you why you don't believe in the three persons of the Trinity. Then you pointed me to the Shema. But I've showed you the church fathers did not have problems reconciling the three persons with the Shema.
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Yahweh, Yeshua and the Ruach Hakkodesh are 3 different aspects of Hashem. Just as we are body, soul and spirit, but one, Hashem is Father, Son and the Ruach.Originally posted by Icemoon:Nope .. I asked you why you don't believe in the three persons of the Trinity. Then you pointed me to the Shema. But I've showed you the church fathers did not have problems reconciling the three persons with the Shema. -
once again .. not found in the OT.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Yahweh, Yeshua and the Ruach Hakkodesh are 3 different aspects of Hashem. Just as we are body, soul and spirit, but one, Hashem is Father, Son and the Ruach. -
the shema is my reason for not believing in the trinity. That is OT.Originally posted by Icemoon:once again .. not found in the OT. -
[quote]Originally posted by breytonhartge:
[b]
quote:
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Originally posted by laoda99:
God is three distinct persons.
Campy, I suggest u attend classes in your own church regarding the trinity. Mebbe u can join those pre-baptism classes which gives u a study in Christology and other essential beliefs in Christianity.
My pre-baptism class helped me a lot.
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Can anyone explain to me what the theology of the trinity is? Thank you! -
but the Shema also never talk about the Yahweh, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit.Originally posted by breytonhartge:the shema is my reason for not believing in the trinity. That is OT.
I was saying the Shema doesn't contradict the Trinity. -
Here is it ..Originally posted by Yaffa:Can anyone explain to me what the theology of the trinity is? Thank you!Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully. -
Thank you for that. Are there any scriptures to justify that God exists in 3 persons and that they are 3 persons?Originally posted by Icemoon: -
Well there are serveral places that mentioned God as three separate person, normally its like The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit...etc . There are also serveral places that says the Lord God is OneOriginally posted by Yaffa:Thank you for that. Are there any scriptures to justify that God exists in 3 persons and that they are 3 persons?
The end of the day is this, afte going through many places that tries or attempt to describe this concept of Trinity, I have yet find one that can really describe God adequately.
Could it be its due to the limitation our human understanding and knowledge and experience that we cannot fully describe God?
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Nope. It was just man's futile attempt to justify their agenda, to package and market their new religion.Originally posted by vince69:The end of the day is this, afte going through many places that tries or attempt to describe this concept of Trinity, I have yet find one that can really describe God adequately.
Could it be its due to the limitation our human understanding and knowledge and experience that we cannot fully describe God?
The Trinity wasn't revealed to the Israelites. Not in their Written Torah. Nor Oral Torah.
How do you explain that?
Edit: The Trinity is indispensable for salvation, because only God in Yeshua is the perfect sacrifice. Now we wonder, why the Jews didn't know that from their Mesorah?
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Try the Johannine Comma?Originally posted by Yaffa:Thank you for that. Are there any scriptures to justify that God exists in 3 persons and that they are 3 persons?
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Not really, its more like man's futile attempt to describe God.Originally posted by Icemoon:Nope. It was just man's futile attempt to justify their agenda, to package and market their new religion.
The Trinity wasn't revealed to the Israelites. Not in their Written Torah. Nor Oral Torah.
How do you explain that?
btw, you did not mention that the word Trinity was not mentioned in neither the OT nor the NT (its an infered notion).
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is this inferred notion biblical or is it man made... I assume it is man made... we have been brainwashed so long that we need to seek the truth of the matter.Originally posted by vince69:Not really, its more like man's futile attempt to describe God.
btw, you did not mention that the word Trinity was not mentioned in neither the OT nor the NT (its an infered notion).
like icy said, trinity never mentioned in Holy Scripture. -
Don't be too happy yet.Originally posted by breytonhartge:like icy said, trinity never mentioned in Holy Scripture.
Yeshua also not spelt out in the Holy Scripture.
Or else why was the Mesorah silent about the arrival of God as Messiah as the sacrifice? -
The Jews did not shun away from describing God. Read Ein Sof and the Tree of Life.Originally posted by vince69:Not really, its more like man's futile attempt to describe God.
btw, you did not mention that the word Trinity was not mentioned in neither the OT nor the NT (its an infered notion).
Trinity is just a marketing word like Ipod. -
A. Prophecies concerning his birth:Originally posted by Icemoon:Don't be too happy yet.
Yeshua also not spelt out in the Holy Scripture.
Or else why was the Mesorah silent about the arrival of God as Messiah as the sacrifice?
Go to text
He would be born in Bethlehem. -- Micah 5:2
He would be born of a virgin. -- Isaiah 7:14
He would be a descendent of David. -- Jeremiah 23:5 (inter alia)
He would be called out of Egypt. -- Isaiah 11:1
He would come 434 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem -- Daniel 9:24-27
B. Prophecies concerning his ministry:
Go to text
He would be preceded by "a voice crying in the wilderness" -- Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1.
Through him God would honor Galilee. -- Isaiah 9:1,2
He would be a "light to the Gentiles." -- Isaiah 42:6
He would speak in parables. -- Psalm 78:2
He would heal the blind, the deaf and the lame. -- Isaiah 35:5
He would work quietly, without fanfare. -- Isaiah 42:1-4
He would enter Jerusalem riding on the colt of a donkey. -- Zechariah 9:9
His people would reject him. -- Isaiah 49:7, 52:14, 53:3
C. Prophecies Concerning his suffering and death:
Go to text"
He would be betrayed by someone he ate with. -- Psalm 41:9
His " sheep " would be scattered. -- Zechariah 13:7
He would not protest. -- Isaiah 53:7, 12
His back would be beaten. -- Isaiah 50:6
They would spit on him. -- Isaiah 50:6.
He would be sorely disfigured. -- Isaiah 52:14
He would die among criminals. -- Isaiah 53:9 , 12
His hands and feet would be pierced. - Psalm 22:16
People would cast lots (like drawing straws) for his clothes. - Psalm 22:18.
He would rise from the dead. - Isaiah 53:11,12