Kefa (Peter's) vision about the sheet and the food...
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actually that vision was not in relation to food, Kefa himself asked the question as to why.. it is understood by Kefa, that certain foods are definitely not for eating, they are biblically unclean, Hashem is the same yesterday, today and forever... so how can Hashem change in His requirements that we can eat unclean food?Originally posted by Icemoon:'cos why did God give Peter that vision but not you?
I am just wondering.
If you continue to read the chapter, the spirit spoke to him saying "What Yahweh has cleansed, you must not call common."
In those days, the Jewish people separated themselves from the goyim, whom they considered common... and even in verse 19 Kefa still wondered about the vision... and while Kefa was still thinking about this... the Rauch spoke to him again saying that there were three men looking for Kefa and that Kefa was to go with them, doubting nothing... these three were romans, part of the goyim... and we find out from Kefa that it is unlawful for Jews to keep company with or to go to one of another nation.
Verse 28-29 is the crux which many in the modern day church miss in their eagerness to fashion an excuse to eat anything they like...
Kefa says and I quote
"Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But Yahweh has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Therefore I cam without objection as soon as I was sent for....
highlight mine... Here Kefa gives the real meaning of the vision plain for all to see, the vision was talking about people of other races and not food. -
your reasoning and deduction regarding this event is reasonable.Originally posted by breytonhartge:highlight mine... Here Kefa gives the real meaning of the vision plain for all to see, the vision was talking about people of other races and not food. -
his reasoning and deduction ming ming jiu shi qiang ci duo li.Originally posted by vince69:your reasoning and deduction regarding this event is reasonable.
Brey,
Hashem was showing Kefa a principle:15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
It applies to food as well as people!
The reason why Hashem used food was because Kefa was hungry and about to have his meal. -
It does not apply to food at all for if it did, why was Kefa so puzzled by the vision??? If food was to be understood in the interpretation of the vision, would not Kefa also say that unclean food is clean? But no, Kefa specifically states that BUT YAHWEH has shown me (Kefa) that I (Kefa) should not call any man common or unclean.Originally posted by Icemoon:It applies to food as well as people!
The reason why Hashem used food was because Kefa was hungry and about to have his meal.
If Yahweh showed Kefa the interpretation of the vision, would not Yahweh also state that unclean foods would not be considered clean??? But there is no where in the NT in the verses following, that this is the case. -
yes, it is a principle, but still Brey's deduction is not unreasonable given that, later in Acts 15:6-9, Peter explains that that it is for He purified their hearts by faith.Originally posted by Icemoon:his reasoning and deduction ming ming jiu shi qiang ci duo li.
Brey,
Hashem was showing Kefa a principle:Acts 15:6-9The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
oh, like what you said, why use food? probably you are right, because Peter is hungry (maybe this is how God get him to pay attention????)
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Your reasoning is getting from bad to worse.Originally posted by breytonhartge:It does not apply to food at all for if it did, why was Kefa so puzzled by the vision??? If food was to be understood in the interpretation of the vision, would not Kefa also say that unclean food is clean? But no, Kefa specifically states that BUT YAHWEH has shown me (Kefa) that I (Kefa) should not call any man common or unclean.
If Yahweh showed Kefa the interpretation of the vision, would not Yahweh also state that unclean foods would not be considered clean??? But there is no where in the NT in the verses following, that this is the case.
I showed you what Hashem told Peter:15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
Of course Kefa was puzzled by the vision! Because he was brought up Jewish!
Kefa need not mention about the food because he was not dealing with food, he was dealing with man. But the principle covers both cases. -
you say you showed me a principle... but I showed you the interpretation given by Hashem himself... read verse 28 again... BUT YAHWEH HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN...Originally posted by Icemoon:Of course Kefa was puzzled by the vision! Because he was brought up Jewish!
Kefa need not mention about the food because he was not dealing with food, he was dealing with man. But the principle covers both cases.
this is prefaced by the statement it is unlawful for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation, there is no where mentioned anything about clean or unclean food.
For if this was the principle that Hashem wanted to get across the Kefa, I think that it would be a rather significant change in Hashem's requirements to merit some mention of it? -
You have to read it in the larger context.
What did Paul say about clean and unclean food?
And please explain the use of "anything" in verse 15. -
Shalom! Interesting topic...Originally posted by Icemoon:Of course Kefa was puzzled by the vision! Because he was brought up Jewish!
Kefa need not mention about the food because he was not dealing with food, he was dealing with man. But the principle covers both cases.
Throughout the Bible, God gives dreams and visions which are not necessarily to be taken literally and people have to ask for interpretations of their dreams or visions.
For example in Joseph's days, 7 lean cows did not literally eat 7 fat cows and 7 thin ears of corn certainly didn't eat the 7 fat ears of corn. There was a meaning and interpretation that had to be sought.
Yeshua, when He was on earth, was not a food waster. Each time he fed the multitudes, he asked His disciples to gather up the remainder. Yet he allowed the demons to go into 2000 pigs resulting in the death of those pigs. If pigs could now be used for food, wouldn't those pigs make a whole lot of food?
Also, in Isaiah 66 where it talks of the new heavens and new earth, verse 17 says, amongst other things, that those who consume swine's flesh and the mouse, both unclean for food, shall be consumed together. Rev 18:2 also mentions that there still exists that some birds are unclean.
Acts 10:28 quite clearly says "...but God has shewed me that I should not call any MAN common or unclean" and nowhere makes mention of the vision being relevant to food. This vision was given in relation to MAN and not food.
Nowhere in the Bible mentions that foods of any kind may now be eaten and Yeshua Himself did not eat anything unclean, so if we are to be His disciples, are we not expected to do the same? -
Haha, you may have something there! While he became hungry and saw the vision, his meal, which was already being prepared for him, was a kosher one for sure, so no need for God to warn him about his upcoming meal!Originally posted by vince69:oh, like what you said, why use food? probably you are right, because Peter is hungry (maybe this is how God get him to pay attention????) 
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i did.. that "anything" is then qualified by Yahweh in verse 28... it is referring to the kind of person whom Kefa could associate with...Originally posted by Icemoon:You have to read it in the larger context.
What did Paul say about clean and unclean food?
And please explain the use of "anything" in verse 15.
In the whole context of this description, it is spoken by the Ruach to Kefa, go with the three men who are looking for you... if the Ruach did not speak to Kefa, he most certainly would not have gone with them, it was UNLAWFUL for him to do so.
We also see in the beginning of Acts chapter 10, Yahweh told Cornelius to send fo Kefa, so it was really arranged by Yahweh.
If you continue reading chapter 11 of the book of Acts, you will see the issue was that Kefa went and kept company with uncircumcised men, Kefa himself explained that Hashem Himself gave the same gift of the Ruach Hakkodesh to the goyim as well as to the Jewish people.
See chapter 11:18 in the book of Acts...
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified Yahweh, saying, "Then Yahweh has also granted to the goyim repentance to life."
Why would this whole story unfold in this manner if that were not the case? Where is the mention of food? The issue in chapter 10 is clarified so clearly in the proceeding chapter. -
And what did Paul say about clean and unclean food?
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Well .. the Apostle Paul did explain the meaning of clean and unclean food.Originally posted by Yaffa:Nowhere in the Bible mentions that foods of any kind may now be eaten and Yeshua Himself did not eat anything unclean, so if we are to be His disciples, are we not expected to do the same? -
Most of what Paul was talking about was in relation to food offered to idols... which passages exactly are you referring to?Originally posted by Icemoon:And what did Paul say about clean and unclean food? -
So how are food offered to idols different from other "unclean" food?Originally posted by Yaffa:Most of what Paul was talking about was in relation to food offered to idols... which passages exactly are you referring to? -
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...Originally posted by Icemoon:And what did Paul say about clean and unclean food? 
If you read the NKJV and the KJV versions of the bible, v15 says "What Yahweh has cleansed you must not call common."
Also, read v34-35 ... in truth, I preceive that Yahweh shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Does it speak about food? No. But it does talk about working righteousness... how do you know how to work righteousness? Follow the Torah. Does the Torah have anything to say about clean and unclean food? Yes, in fact it was so important that it was mentioned twice in Exodus and Deuteronomy, even in Noah's time, there was already the distinction between clean and unclean.
Malachi 3:6
“ For I am the LORD, I do not change; -
Brey .. are you circumcised?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Does it speak about food? No. But it does talk about working righteousness... how do you know how to work righteousness? Follow the Torah. Does the Torah have anything to say about clean and unclean food? Yes, in fact it was so important that it was mentioned twice in Exodus and Deuteronomy, even in Noah's time, there was already the distinction between clean and unclean.
Noah's time got clean and unclean food liao? -
Clean foods offered to idols, though in itself fit for consumption, are not acceptable as food since Paul explains we cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils. Other unclean foods are unclean because Yahweh says so.Originally posted by Icemoon:So how are food offered to idols different from other "unclean" food? -
erm .. can give the accompanying verses also? Thanks.Originally posted by Yaffa:Clean foods offered to idols, though in itself fit for consumption, are not acceptable as food since Paul explains we cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils. Other unclean foods are unclean because Yahweh says so. -
I won't answer the circumcision bit...Originally posted by Icemoon:Brey .. are you circumcised?
Noah's time got clean and unclean food liao?
But yes, Noah did know which animals were clean and unclean, otherwise how could he have obeyed God's command to bring into the ark 2 of each unclean animal and 7 each of clean animals? -
Oh sorry! Didn't quite know which ones you were implying, but I was referring to I Cor 10:19-21 as an example.Originally posted by Icemoon:erm .. can give the accompanying verses also? Thanks. -
Before I get asked, verses to the above: Gen 7:2-3Originally posted by Yaffa:I won't answer the circumcision bit...
But yes, Noah did know which animals were clean and unclean, otherwise how could he have obeyed God's command to bring into the ark 2 of each unclean animal and 7 each of clean animals? -
That is too personal a question for a forum... prefer not to say...Originally posted by Icemoon:Brey .. are you circumcised?
Noah's time got clean and unclean food liao?
Read Genesis Chapter 7 verse 2 :
You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each if animals that are unclean, a male and his female... -
Actually you two must understand ..
Icey here is pro Jewish.
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I know you are pro Jewish... so why all the fuss?Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually you two must understand ..
Icey here is pro Jewish. 