Are the ten commandments not binding on christians????
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You can imagine without the authoritative Oral Tradition .. there would be even more confusion.Originally posted by breytonhartge:depends on whether you are expending energy in the pursuit of creating something... ? then how do you define what is creating something and what is not? its like asking how long is a piece of string right? Even amongst the Jews, there is much debate on what is acceptable and what is not in terms of keeping Shabbat.
also depends on what you consider challenges or whether it is a discussion of Torah and the ways of Hashem which are permitted on Shabbat.
Brey .. you don't follow the Oral Tradition right?
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I have actually read up what the Jews have written down from Oral Tradition. It is very interesting. I have also heard some from my better half...Originally posted by Icemoon:You can imagine without the authoritative Oral Tradition .. there would be even more confusion.
Brey .. you don't follow the Oral Tradition right? -
It is not as compulsory for woman to learn about the Oral Tradition.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I have actually read up what the Jews have written down from Oral Tradition. It is very interesting. I have also heard some from my better half...
So where did she learn it from?
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Family?Originally posted by Icemoon:It is not as compulsory for woman to learn about the Oral Tradition.
So where did she learn it from? 
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The operative word here being in Yeshua. The question then becomes are you in Yeshua? What does it mean to be in Yeshua?Originally posted by vince69:I disagree, we are under grace not law.
now, do we follow the commandments and do what is right? of course, you are even greatly encouraged to do so.
for us who are in Christ, our salvation is solely and fully based on the works of Christ, not our works.
Does this means we can go around committing sin? of course not, for us who are in Christ, though we may commit sin, its had become an unnatural act, like what the Apostle Paul lamented, that those things he do not want to do, he ended up doing them. Who then can deliver us? Thanks be to God, the answer is Christ. Because we are in Christ, when we fell, we fell in Christ.
Does this means we can ignore God's commandments? of course not, but knowing that on our own, we cannot, we need to rely on Christ to enable us, to put the desire in us, to help us, to bring us through.... Its all about Christ. Hence I put it up that, there is nothing to boast about.
If our salvation is assured in Christ, why do we still do all these? its precisely this, that we want to follow the commandments and do the right things, to do charity ..etc, first its out of the abundance of God's grace and second to be a living testamony of His love, kindness, beauty and grace.
cheers.
I think the concept of grace here is serverly misunderstood by mainstream christianity. Grace does not mean that you are no longer under the law, we are always under the law. The misinterpretation of christianity is that the law is a bad thing, but the law actually encompasses the Torah, which is the first five books of The Holy Scriptures.
The Torah is basic instruction for life, if you do not have the Torah, do you then have life? Even Yeshua said keep the commandments as He has kept the Fathers commandments.
Grace is unto repentance, not grace from not keeping Torah. Torah is our basic way of life. That is our basis. We are His children. There is only one way Hashems way. You cannot change that. Hashem is the same yesterday today and forever, this is His character. -
The word "law" really should be read "Torah", meaning God's instructions to us for life. So it is obviously impossible for us to disregard His instructions to us and expect to have abundant life. And to say His instructions have been nailed to the cross and replaced by Yeshua's blood has no meaning at all. These instructions show us how to please Him, Yeshua came to abolish eternal death which was the punishment for sin, not to change the instructions for life.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The operative word here being in Yeshua. The question then becomes are you in Yeshua? What does it mean to be in Yeshua?
I think the concept of grace here is serverly misunderstood by mainstream christianity. Grace does not mean that you are no longer under the law, we are always under the law. The misinterpretation of christianity is that the law is a bad thing, but the law actually encompasses the Torah, which is the first five books of The Holy Scriptures.
The Torah is basic instruction for life, if you do not have the Torah, do you then have life? Even Yeshua said keep the commandments as He has kept the Fathers commandments.
Grace is unto repentance, not grace from not keeping Torah. Torah is our basic way of life. That is our basis. We are His children. There is only one way Hashems way. You cannot change that. Hashem is the same yesterday today and forever, this is His character. -
[/b]Originally posted by vince69:
Heb 10:26-31
I disagree, we are under grace not law.
now, do we follow the commandments and do what is right? of course, you are even greatly encouraged to do so.
for us who are in Christ, our salvation is solely and fully based on the works of Christ, not our works.
Does this means we can go around committing sin? of course not, for us who are in Christ, though we may commit sin, its had become an unnatural act, like what the Apostle Paul lamented, that those things he do not want to do, he ended up doing them. Who then can deliver us? Thanks be to God, the answer is Christ. Because we are in Christ, when we fell, we fell in Christ.
Does this means we can ignore God's commandments? of course not, but knowing that on our own, we cannot, we need to rely on Christ to enable us, to put the desire in us, to help us, to bring us through.... Its all about Christ. Hence I put it up that, there is nothing to boast about.
If our salvation is assured in Christ, why do we still do all these? its precisely this, that we want to follow the commandments and do the right things, to do charity ..etc, first its out of the abundance of God's grace and second to be a living testamony of His love, kindness, beauty and grace.
cheers. [/b]
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who oppose God).
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worth, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, And again, The Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God"...
Heb 10:38-39
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him, but we are not of the who draw back unto perdition: but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."
It is obviously possible for one to lose or not to have salvation, simply by returning to his old ways or not changing his sinful ways. They draw back unto perdition meaning they are lost. Let this be a warning to us not to take His grace and offer of salvation for granted. We can't do whatever we want or think is right and expect to be saved in the end... -
Brey, please read my post again,Originally posted by breytonhartge:The operative word here being in Yeshua. The question then becomes are you in Yeshua? What does it mean to be in Yeshua?
I think the concept of grace here is serverly misunderstood by mainstream christianity. Grace does not mean that you are no longer under the law, we are always under the law. The misinterpretation of christianity is that the law is a bad thing, but the law actually encompasses the Torah, which is the first five books of The Holy Scriptures.
The Torah is basic instruction for life, if you do not have the Torah, do you then have life? Even Yeshua said keep the commandments as He has kept the Fathers commandments.
Grace is unto repentance, not grace from not keeping Torah. Torah is our basic way of life. That is our basis. We are His children. There is only one way Hashems way. You cannot change that. Hashem is the same yesterday today and forever, this is His character.
'Does this means we can ignore God's commandments? of course not'
I did say we are under grace, not law.
the Law is a bad thing? no the Law, maybe we should say the precepts or instructions of God are perfect. Like I said before, it is by the grace of God through Christ that we can live a life pleasing to God.
btw, the Instructions of God is not just in the first five books of the Holy Scripture, its everywhere, for in them, you will find the character of God. -
my post:Originally posted by Yaffa:Heb 10:26-31
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who oppose God).
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worth, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, And again, The Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God"...
Heb 10:38-39
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him, but we are not of the who draw back unto perdition: but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."
It is obviously possible for one to lose or not to have salvation, simply by returning to his old ways or not changing his sinful ways. They draw back unto perdition meaning they are lost. Let this be a warning to us not to take His grace and offer of salvation for granted. We can't do whatever we want or think is right and expect to be saved in the end...
'Does this means we can go around committing sin? of course not'
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Actually, it was the penalty that was nailed to the cross (personal opinion), not the precepts of the Lord.Originally posted by Yaffa:The word "law" really should be read "Torah", meaning God's instructions to us for life. So it is obviously impossible for us to disregard His instructions to us and expect to have abundant life. And to say His instructions have been nailed to the cross and replaced by Yeshua's blood has no meaning at all. These instructions show us how to please Him, Yeshua came to abolish eternal death which was the punishment for sin, not to change the instructions for life.
The penalty of our trangression He bore.
wonder where this is from? always thought the words of God are eternal and His precepts are perfect.
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I am lost.
Are the commandments binding on Christians? -
Torah means "instructions" if I remember correctly.Originally posted by vince69:btw, the Instructions of God is not just in the first five books of the Holy Scripture, its everywhere, for in them, you will find the character of God. -
of course! christians have to live by them, there is no excuse for not keeping Torah.Originally posted by Icemoon:I am lost.
Are the commandments binding on Christians? -
har? Christians cannot eat pork ah?Originally posted by breytonhartge:of course! christians have to live by them, there is no excuse for not keeping Torah. -
most definitely.Originally posted by Icemoon:har? Christians cannot eat pork ah? -
and no lobster.Originally posted by breytonhartge:most definitely.
You must be joking! -
Originally posted by Icemoon:and no lobster.
You must be joking! Wake up and smell the flowers, bro! -
Yup, you are right, posted above, reiterated by you!Originally posted by Icemoon:Torah means "instructions" if I remember correctly. -
Funny about that teaching, isn't it? Don't know how they came to the conclusion that the "law" was nailed to the cross and on what grounds this continues to be taught!Originally posted by vince69:Actually, it was the penalty that was nailed to the cross (personal opinion), not the precepts of the Lord.
The penalty of our trangression He bore.
wonder where this is from? always thought the words of God are eternal and His precepts are perfect. -
I get offended when christians can call the OT void, say the law is a curse and nailed to the cross.Originally posted by Yaffa:Funny about that teaching, isn't it? Don't know how they came to the conclusion that the "law" was nailed to the cross and on what grounds this continues to be taught!
they are best at this pattern. when situation demands it, they say "hey .. look Trinity in the OT also leh".
but when the OT becomes a liability, they say the OT is void.
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nope deadly serious.Originally posted by Icemoon:and no lobster.
You must be joking! -
if the OT is void, then the whole of the basis for christianity is void and chirstianity becomes a fake religion.Originally posted by Icemoon:I get offended when christians can call the OT void, say the law is a curse and nailed to the cross.
they are best at this pattern. when situation demands it, they say "hey .. look Trinity in the OT also leh".
but when the OT becomes a liability, they say the OT is void. -
It could very well be the case Christianity is a fake religion.Originally posted by breytonhartge:if the OT is void, then the whole of the basis for christianity is void and chirstianity becomes a fake religion.
Maybe the Church has perveted Jesus' teachings.
Read the church fathers like Justin Martyr and early church writings like the epistle of Barnabas. They are anti-semitic. -
Brey, wake up your idea.
Look at what happened historically. There were many Jewish sects in the past, pharisees, sadducees, essenes, ebionites, nazarenes etc.
ALL are gone except the the pharisees, now in the form of rabbinical Judaism.
Rabbinical Judaism never believe in Yeshua. -
OT is voidOriginally posted by Icemoon:I get offended when christians can call the OT void, say the law is a curse and nailed to the cross.
they are best at this pattern. when situation demands it, they say "hey .. look Trinity in the OT also leh".
but when the OT becomes a liability, they say the OT is void.
if OT is void, the NT how? most of Jesus' teaching and the Apostles' teaching all have quotes from OT and teach from there one leh .... does this means NT also void.