Christians Who Don't Celebrate Easter: What Do They Know?
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Wrong. While the Jerusalem council is the body of apostles, they are acting under human understanding. How can you be sure that they are acting under the auspices of Hashem? While they were commissioned by Yeshua, they obviously faltered along the way. Otherwise we would not be in this predicament that we have today with the RC and protestant churches.Originally posted by Icemoon:Why are you asking this question?
The Jerusalem council is the body of apostles!! They are acting under the auspice of Hashem.
I'm suggesting your understanding is wrong. It seems that you are stuck by my question and your [easy] way out is to ask who is the greater authority.
There shouldn't be such a question at all!
My question is not the easy way out. If you believe in Hashem, then should you not also believe in His word? Which was made flesh in Yeshua, who also said to obey His Father's commands? -
Yeshua built His church upon the rock of Kefa!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Wrong. While the Jerusalem council is the body of apostles, they are acting under human understanding. How can you be sure that they are acting under the auspices of Hashem? While they were commissioned by Yeshua, they obviously faltered along the way. Otherwise we would not be in this predicament that we have today with the RC and protestant churches.
Haha .. the apostles faltered along the way. What a way to describe it! -
And Kefa did not teach any different from Yeshua, its what happened later that spoilt everything.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yeshua built His church upon the rock of Peter!
Haha .. the apostles faltered along the way. What a way to describe it! -
Kefa was in the Jerusalem Council ..Originally posted by breytonhartge:And Kefa did not teach any different from Yeshua, its what happened later that spoilt everything.
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as I'd said.... name me one prominent Jewish evangelist/scholar/teacher who were prominent in influencing the movement of the church after, say, AD 500? I am just plucking the year off the air. Fact remains that the spreading of the gospel were in the hands of white evangelists.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Easter is not just a secular tradition, it is also a church man made tradition, which has been wholly endorsed by the church. IF it truly was about just celebrating the death and ressurection of Yeshua, then why do all the churches call it an easter service??
If for over 1500 years, there were no efforts to rectify the so-called doctrinal errors and now suddenly in 2007, we start to whine about how wrong the church is? whose fault is this?
Sure we now have the internet and very much hindsight of what could have been done and what could have been corrected, fact remains that nothing is really done, especially in non-English speaking countries.
Fact remains too, that all your postulating is generated from English speaking sources who take offence of words like Easter, yet in non-English speaking countries, I don't believe such words exist in direct translation.
What I want to see is: the same postulation as yours, from Asian non-English speaking preachers telling me the same thing.
I ASK YOU AGAIN: SHOW ME WHO ARE THE PROMINENT JEWISH SCHOLARS FROM AD 500 WHO HAD DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO AVERT THE PREDICAMENT THAT WE ARE IN TODAY! AND THAT CHURCH HAD REFUSED TO FOLLOW THEIR CORRECT THEOLOGY. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
I'd refer to the bottom section of this wiki article. It contains the entire gamut of names used in place of Easter in various countries. It is interesting to note that only a few countries used the term Easter or it's deriatives.... most of the names used is derived from Pascha.
My point is: get off the English speaking mindset and see the world in a more global manner! -
Ok so get off the english speaking mindset, and get back to basics. Call it passover! Pesach. And please celebrate it on the right day?Originally posted by Chin Eng:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
I'd refer to the bottom section of this wiki article. It contains the entire gamut of names used in place of Easter in various countries. It is interesting to note that only a few countries used the term Easter or it's deriatives.... most of the names used is derived from Pascha.
My point is: get off the English speaking mindset and see the world in a more global manner!
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None of the Jews have a responsibility to correct the doctrinal errors of the church it is for us who claim that we follow the God of the Jews to find out for ourselves how Hashem wants us to live. You have your bible and you can clearly read and understand english or mandrin so you go read your Holy Scriptures and you tell me what Hashem says about keeping His feasts and whether Yeshua commanded us to celebrate easter?Originally posted by Chin Eng:as I'd said.... name me one prominent Jewish evangelist/scholar/teacher who were prominent in influencing the movement of the church after, say, AD 500? I am just plucking the year off the air. Fact remains that the spreading of the gospel were in the hands of white evangelists.
If for over 1500 years, there were no efforts to rectify the so-called doctrinal errors and now suddenly in 2007, we start to whine about how wrong the church is? whose fault is this?
Sure we now have the internet and very much hindsight of what could have been done and what could have been corrected, fact remains that nothing is really done, especially in non-English speaking countries.
Fact remains too, that all your postulating is generated from English speaking sources who take offence of words like Easter, yet in non-English speaking countries, I don't believe such words exist in direct translation.
What I want to see is: the same postulation as yours, from Asian non-English speaking preachers telling me the same thing.
I ASK YOU AGAIN: SHOW ME WHO ARE THE PROMINENT JEWISH SCHOLARS FROM AD 500 WHO HAD DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO AVERT THE PREDICAMENT THAT WE ARE IN TODAY! AND THAT CHURCH HAD REFUSED TO FOLLOW THEIR CORRECT THEOLOGY.
Even if the churchers celebrated passover, they have already missed the time. Passover and easter have almost never fallen on the same time frame. Sometimes they are weeks apart. The predicament that we are in today is not the fault of the Jews who have always kept Hashem's ways and feasts and commandments.
The fault that we have today is that of the gentile church for wanting to distance itself from the chosen people of Hashem for fear of repirsal from the authorities way back in around 300AD?
So now we have come round full circle. THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES NOT WHO ARE THE PROMINENT JEWS WHO COULD HAVE AVERTED THIS TRADGEDY BUT DID NOT, BUT RATHER, NOW THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION? CONTINUE IN YOUR PERVIOUS WAYS OR MAKE THE COURSE CHANGE? WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU!!! -
So I take it that there are no prominent Jewish scholars who are able to undo the errors committed???? Seeing that you are still unable to answer that question?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Ok so get off the english speaking mindset, and get back to basics. Call it passover! Pesach. And please celebrate it on the right day?
Isn't that the whole point? With hindsight, we whine about why we are not doing things correctly, yet, we are not able to provide evidence that the correct people did correct things by correcting them when they happen. Now we start to point fingers and take that holier-than-thou stand by accusing everyone as being wrong, yet, we are still not able to look and understand and appreciate what right things were done to prevent this from happening...
Brey, I have said this many times. As long as you can provide some evidence that the Hebrew people had in the past consciously and vigoriously attempted to correct the wrongs of the church and that the church had rejected these efforts, I will opening and unconditionally accept that you are right! However, I feel that I will be disappointed because I am very sure you are able to provide any answer to me. -
Like I said, the Jews do not have to do a thing. We are worshipping their God. Its up to us to find out what Hashem really wants of us.Originally posted by Chin Eng:So I take it that there are no prominent Jewish scholars who are able to undo the errors committed???? Seeing that you are still unable to answer that question?
Isn't that the whole point? With hindsight, we whine about why we are not doing things correctly, yet, we are not able to provide evidence that the correct people did correct things by correcting them when they happen. Now we start to point fingers and take that holier-than-thou stand by accusing everyone as being wrong, yet, we are still not able to look and understand and appreciate what right things were done to prevent this from happening...
Brey, I have said this many times. As long as you can provide some evidence that the Hebrew people had in the past consciously and vigoriously attempted to correct the wrongs of the church and that the church had rejected these efforts, I will opening and unconditionally accept that you are right! However, I feel that I will be disappointed because I am very sure you are able to provide any answer to me.
The church in AD 300 plainly rejected the ways of Hashem, it is clearly documented. They did so because they did not want repraisals from Rome. The church then proceeded to create a new religion to distance itself from Hashem's and Yeshua's teachings, such as worshipping on sunday, the first day of the week, and absorbing pagan rites and festivals into the churches belief system, which we are told not to do. Yet for all the festivals that we are told to keep, we do not do it. Even the simplest thing of keeping Shabbat, the church has not taught! Yet when we read the Holy Scriptures, we find that Hashem considers it so important that those who do not keep Shabbat will be put to death! It is only by the grace of Yeshua that we are given time to repent of all of this and come back to Hashem!! -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
So now we have come round full circle. THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES NOT WHO ARE THE PROMINENT JEWS WHO COULD HAVE AVERTED THIS TRADGEDY BUT DID NOT, BUT RATHER, NOW THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION? CONTINUE IN YOUR PERVIOUS WAYS OR MAKE THE COURSE CHANGE? WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU!!! so don't have lah....
continue in what previous ways???? religious opinions are a dime a dozen, furthermore in this age of internet preaching, each loony can post his opinons and claim that it's from God or at least a closer understanding than anyone else. You think you are correct, so is the guy who thinks bigamy is biblical!
to me it's simple: when I meet my maker, and if he's displease with me, that's his prerogative.... he wants to throw me into the lake of fire, that's his prerogative too. I have never even once consider myself worthy to be loved, yet I try to serve him as much as it's possibly can.
if, at the end of the day, he is going to question me on all these, and finds fault with it and inspite of my servitude, so be it.
if, my God wishes to punish me inspite of the fact that I don't better, so be it.
if, my God chooses to be petty and insist that everything has to be 100% adhered to otherwise there is no salvation, again so be it. However, I don't believe even you are 100% correct in everything.... so how? Will we meet in hell and start SGforums there? -
Now my turn to rant.
Actually English is the most fark up language in Christiandom. It confuses people also.
For example, I wonder who is the idiot who translated the Hebrew Bible into English and came out with the following book titles like Numbers and Judges?
Luckily the chinese translators have brains. Numbers now become min2 shu4 ji4 and Judges is now shi4 shi2 ji4. Anyone with a moderate command of chinese can now guess Numbers has to do with a census and Judges has to do with a group of people who are warrior-priest.
More examples:
Book of James -> ya3 ge2 shu1
Book of Jude -> you2 da4 shu1
Gospel of John -> yue2 han4 fu2 yin1
From Brey's sticky, the chinese translations are actually closer to the Hebrew names:
JAMES - YA'AKOV
JUDE - Y'HUDAH
JOHN - YOCHANAN -
So you have your own version of DaVinci Code?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Like I said, the Jews do not have to do a thing. We are worshipping their God. Its up to us to find out what Hashem really wants of us.
The church in AD 300 plainly rejected the ways of Hashem, it is clearly documented. They did so because they did not want repraisals from Rome. The church then proceeded to create a new religion to distance itself from Hashem's and Yeshua's teachings, such as worshipping on sunday, the first day of the week, and absorbing pagan rites and festivals into the churches belief system, which we are told not to do. Yet for all the festivals that we are told to keep, we do not do it. Even the simplest thing of keeping Shabbat, the church has not taught! Yet when we read the Holy Scriptures, we find that Hashem considers it so important that those who do not keep Shabbat will be put to death! It is only by the grace of Yeshua that we are given time to repent of all of this and come back to Hashem!!
Documented? and we have access of it only now? -
wah! use bad words.... careful, mod very strict one.Originally posted by Icemoon:Now my turn to rant.
Actually English is the most fark up language in Christiandom. It confuses people also.
For example, I wonder who is the idiot who translated the Hebrew Bible into English and came out with the following book titles like Numbers and Judges?
Luckily the chinese translators have brains. Numbers now become min2 shu4 ji4 and Judges is now shi4 shi2 ji4. Anyone with a moderate command of chinese can now guess Numbers has to do with a census and Judges has to do with a group of people who are warrior-priest.
More examples:
Book of James -> ya3 ge2 shu1
Book of Jude -> you2 da4 shu1
Gospel of John -> yue2 han4 fu2 yin1
From Brey's sticky, the chinese translations are actually closer to the Hebrew names:
JAMES - YA'AKOV
JUDE - Y'HUDAH
JOHN - YOCHANAN
that's the whole point isn't it.... kbkb about how words are used.
... and we are wondering why English is the language for business globally.
anyway... nuff said lah... brey had said once that he wants to learn from people to write in to DT, my respond then was, there is nothing for him to learn..... it is true again today. -
Your position is untenable lah. Pls read my criticism of you in the Romans topic in EH.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Like I said, the Jews do not have to do a thing. We are worshipping their God. Its up to us to find out what Hashem really wants of us.
You say you are worshipping their God, but how come they are not worshipping your God Yeshua leh? -
Actually tenable, when Messiah returns again, those of the Jews who are seeking, will acknowledge Him as LORD!Originally posted by Icemoon:Your position is untenable lah. Pls read my criticism of you in the Romans topic in EH.
You say you are worshipping their God, but how come they are not worshipping your God Yeshua leh? -
Qiang ci duo li!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Actually tenable, when Messiah returns again, those of the Jews who are seeking, will acknowledge Him as LORD!
Your position was never tenable in the past and it still untenable now.
Future things who knows? -
Rubbish! It has always been tenable.Originally posted by Icemoon:Qiang ci duo li!
Your position was never tenable in the past and it still untenable now.
Future things who knows? -
The Jews have never worshipped Yeshua and are still not doing it now.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Rubbish! It has always been tenable. -
They will when He returns... those of them that are waiting for Messiah anyway...Originally posted by Icemoon:The Jews have never worshipped Yeshua and are still not doing it now. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:The Jews have never worshipped Yeshua and are still not doing it now.Originally posted by breytonhartge:They will when He returns... those of them that are waiting for Messiah anyway...
unfortunately, I agree with ice on the untenable thing..... -
no prob...Originally posted by Chin Eng:
unfortunately, I agree with ice on the untenable thing..... 
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Ask you a theological question. I really dunno the answer.Originally posted by breytonhartge:They will when He returns... those of them that are waiting for Messiah anyway...
How come Yeshua keep on threatening that the Son of Man is coming soon, but till today still haven't come ah? -
Unker...Originally posted by Chin Eng:as I'd said.... name me one prominent Jewish evangelist/scholar/teacher who were prominent in influencing the movement of the church after, say, AD 500? I am just plucking the year off the air. Fact remains that the spreading of the gospel were in the hands of white evangelists.
If for over 1500 years, there were no efforts to rectify the so-called doctrinal errors and now suddenly in 2007, we start to whine about how wrong the church is? whose fault is this?
Sure we now have the internet and very much hindsight of what could have been done and what could have been corrected, fact remains that nothing is really done, especially in non-English speaking countries.
Fact remains too, that all your postulating is generated from English speaking sources who take offence of words like Easter, yet in non-English speaking countries, I don't believe such words exist in direct translation.
What I want to see is: the same postulation as yours, from Asian non-English speaking preachers telling me the same thing.
I ASK YOU AGAIN: SHOW ME WHO ARE THE PROMINENT JEWISH SCHOLARS FROM AD 500 WHO HAD DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO AVERT THE PREDICAMENT THAT WE ARE IN TODAY! AND THAT CHURCH HAD REFUSED TO FOLLOW THEIR CORRECT THEOLOGY.
to be fair, during the post apostlotic (spelling mistake) days of the church ... mots of the leaders are anti-jews, some of these are commonly found in the teaching (over the pulpit) or personal comments such as
1) The Jews are over, finished, the Church had replaced them as God's people
2) Its the Jews that had mudered our Lord Jesus Christ
....etc
so its not a wonder that during this times, there is no prominent Jewish evangelist/scholar/teacher who were prominent in influencing the movement of the church (probably, they are excluded from the church).
cheers
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Wah! Vince what are you doing up so late?? Shabbat Shalom!