Afterlife and Hell....
-
Question :Originally posted by laoda99:My personal views
1. Why do Christians seek for eternal afterlife?
3. Why is that non-Christians go to hell?
1)what is this eternal afterlife a christian desires?
3)Is there really a hell? -
Answer to question 1:
Christians go to Heaven.
Answer to question 2:
Hell is created for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Hell, all its PR, will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire.
Shalom -
means not christian then will go hell?
-
In regard to your answer to question 2 you said that "in hell, all its PR will enjoy 24/7 eternal BBQ with eternal fire" - if that is the case, what's the big deal to be in hell when the "unbelievers" are still existing & wont die although they are in eternal fire.Originally posted by Creation1656:Answer to question 1:
Christians go to Heaven.
Answer to question 2:
Hell is created for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Hell, all its PR, will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire.
Shalom -
Heaven: Only clouds. Just look up the sky.
Hell: Possible that half of Hollywood will be PR there. Stars and Starlets enjoying BBQ 24/7. Which is better? Go figure. -
where does it say in the bible that christians go to heaven?Originally posted by Creation1656:Answer to question 1:
Christians go to Heaven.
Answer to question 2:
Hell is created for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Hell, all its PR, will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire.
Shalom
and is there really a hell? -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
Proof that christians go to heaven is in the NT.
Where does it say in the bible that christians go to heaven?
and is there really a hell?
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ." Philippians 3:20 (NASB)
Citizenship don't come cheap. It costs applicants 10% of their monthly income, for life. NCC collected from believers $42.8 millions, FCBC $27 millions and CHC $30.9 millions. ST 29.10.2007 pp H4-H5.
Proof of existence hell in the NT
"If your hands causes you to stumble, cut it off, it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into unquenchable fire". Mark 9:43 (NASB)
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off, it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell". Mark 9:45 (NASB) also Mark 9:47 and 2 peter 2:4
Conclusion:
1. If you believe in NT. Then there is a hell and christians go to heaven.
2. But Rabbinic Jews, very clever. They only believe in Torah, the prophets and writings in the OT. Since they don't believe in NT, there is no HELL.
3. Rabbinic Jews also not very clever. Since they don't believe in NT they are not given citizenship in heaven. So no heaven for them.
4. What do you believe?
Shalom -
All the verse says is that our citizenship is in Heaven, which is right and true, because becoming a believer in Yeshua, we are now part of another kingdom, the Kingdom of Yahweh. Hence our citizenship is in heaven, but it does not say we will be going to heaven.Originally posted by Creation1656:Proof that christians go to heaven is in the NT.
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ." Philippians 3:20 (NASB)
Citizenship don't come cheap. It costs applicants 10% of their monthly income, for life. NCC collected from believers $42.8 millions, FCBC $27 millions and CHC $30.9 millions. ST 29.10.2007 pp H4-H5.
Proof of existence hell in the NT
"If your hands causes you to stumble, cut it off, it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into unquenchable fire". Mark 9:43 (NASB)
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off, it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell". Mark 9:45 (NASB) also Mark 9:47 and 2 peter 2:4
Conclusion:
1. If you believe in NT. Then there is a hell and christians go to heaven.
2. But Rabbinic Jews, very clever. They only believe in Torah, the prophets and writings in the OT. Since they don't believe in NT, there is no HELL.
3. Rabbinic Jews also not very clever. Since they don't believe in NT they are not given citizenship in heaven. So no heaven for them.
4. What do you believe?
Shalom
Read Matthew (Mattityahu) 5:5 which says the meek shall inherit the earth. Why would Yeshua say that if the christians were going to heaven?
Also consider this verse from Revelations:
“And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God” (Rev. 21:2-3)
Another question on hell, so what is your view on hell? ie is it one which is commonly held by most christians that it is a place of unquenchable fire?
I beg to differ on the part of rabbinic Jews, read Romans 11. -
Yeshua ben Yosef was a Jew, like most Jews he believe in a redeemed world. Olam Ha-Ba. The messianic age. A world characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all nations and people. There will be no sins and all humankind will acknowledge Hashem as only true G-d. In fact, Yeshua followed all the customs, or Law of Moses.
Yeshua, original teachings would be 'rabbinic', however things changed after 325CE. The nicean creed, 381CE Council of Constantinople etc. It was only in 369CE that Athanasius finished the NT presenting the NT in 27 books. So, you can see that the NT origin is without controversy? In fact the NT origin is controversial.
"I saw no temple in it, for the LORD God the almighty and the lamb are its temple". Rev 21:22
Please read Ezekiel chapters 40-48. Where is the temple of Hashem? How about the priesthood under Zadok?
If you quote Roman 11, the problems is, present day rabbinic Jews don't accept NT or St Paul writings, as scriptures.
Shalom -
I have questions:Originally posted by breytonhartge:All the verse says is that our citizenship is in heaven, which is right and true, because becoming a believer of Yeshua, we are now part of another kingdom, the kingdom of Yahweh. Hence our citizenship is in heaven, but it does not say we will be going to heaven.
1. If citizen of heaven don't live in heaven, then where? Where do christians go in their afterlife, if not heaven then where? Because in Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
2. Where is the kindom of Yahweh? Is it in heaven?
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
"Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and santified it because in it He rested from all His works which God had created and made." Genesis 2:1-3 (NASB) Also read Genesis chapter 1.
Another question on hell, so what is your view on hell? ie is it one which is commonly held by most christians that it is a place of unquenchable fire?
From the creation account, G-d did NOT create HELL. Hell is the creation of the NT, not G-d. G-d never said he created hell for the benefits of unbelievers.
What is your view on hell?
Shalom -
Yeshua indeed taught according to the Holy Scriptures, in fact He even went beyond that by teaching that we must also follow the spirit of the mitzvot as well.Originally posted by Creation1656:Yeshua ben Yosef was a Jew, like most Jews he believe in a redeemed world. Olam Ha-Ba. The messianic age. A world characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all nations and people. There will be no sins and all humankind will acknowledge Hashem as only true G-d. In fact, Yeshua followed all the customs, or Law of Moses.
Yeshua, original teachings would be 'rabbinic', however things changed after 325CE. The nicean creed, 381CE Council of Constantinople etc. It was only in 369CE that Athanasius finished the NT presenting the NT in 27 books. So, you can see that the NT origin is without controversy? In fact the NT origin is controversial.
"I saw no temple in it, for the LORD God the almighty and the lamb are its temple". Rev 21:22
Please read Ezekiel chapters 40-48. Where is the temple of Hashem? How about the priesthood under Zadok?
If you quote Roman 11, the problems is, present day rabbinic Jews don't accept NT or St Paul writings, as scriptures.
Shalom
Who were the people involved in the Council of Nicea? Not the true believers, but rather sun god worshipping pagans, masquarading as believers in the true faith.
Constantine convened the ecumenical council of Nicea in 325 to resolve the doctrinal differences between various Christian divisions. Before this, Constantine had already decreed that the day of the sun would be kept throughout the empire. This “day of the sun” was pivotal in unifying pagan sun-worshipers with nominal “Christians.”
These “Christians” had already accepted Sunday and had never observed God’s seventh-day Sabbath to begin with—except for apostates who had joined them. This was a marriage of convenience between Constantine and the church at Rome. The council of Nicea condemned the practice of true Christianity. All of the precepts of the emerging church at Rome were now decreed as part of the new state religion. As its protector, Constantine forced everyone, pagan or Christian, into either conformity or exile.
The pertinent verses that I speak of in Romans 11 are verses 25-27 and this is a direct quotation of Yeshayahu 59:20-21 and also from Yeshayahu chapter 27. This is directly out of the Tanakh. I think rabbinic jews will have not problems with this. Even when Shaul was preacing, he advocated for the people being taught to search the scriptures, which other scriptures would have existed then but the Tanakh? The Brit Chadashahwould not exist till 369AD as you point out...
Since you direct me to Yechezk'el, you already know that the temple will be in Yisrael.
In regards to the Cohen of Zadok, it is not for me to say, Yahweh Himeself will appoint the Cohanim who will serve Him in His sanctuary, yet do you not believe that in the remanant of Yisrael that there will be descendants of the lineage of Zadok? Even now, the Jews keep all the mitzvot of Yahweh that can be kept. They are more in tune with the true faith than the modern day christian church ever was. -
Even fro Yechezk'el, we can see that the new temple will be in Yisrael, and there Yahweh will dwell. There shall be a new heaven and a new earth, read Yeshayahu 65:17-25.Originally posted by Creation1656:I have questions:
1. If citizen of heaven don't live in heaven, then where? Where do christians go in their afterlife, if not heaven then where? Because in Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
2. Where is the kindom of Yahweh? Is it in heaven?
Shalom
So then, the Kingdom of Yahweh will be here on earth. I don't know where the christians go in the afterlife, but I do know that the true believers will be here with Yahweh on earth. -
I do not believe that there is a place as described by mainstream christianity called hell, where unbelievers and sinners suffer eternal torment. It is clearly stated, the penalty for sin is DEATH. That I would say is quite final.Originally posted by Creation1656:"Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and santified it because in it He rested from all His works which God had created and made." Genesis 2:1-3 (NASB) Also read Genesis chapter 1.
From the creation account, G-d did NOT create HELL. Hell is the creation of the NT, not G-d. G-d never said he created hell for the benefits of unbelievers.
What is your view on hell?
Shalom
Ezekiel 18:4 (KJV)
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
Since the church fathers at Nicea were not true believers, but pagans. How do you reconcile the fact that the theology of all the NT churches today are based on the Nicean Creed? May I ask you, as a believer of the NT, do you believe in the Nicean Creed?
Who are the people involved in Council of Nicea? Not true believers, but rather sun god worshipping pagans, masquarading as believers in the true faith. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
Can people now take the position that the NT is "not kosher"? Since the NT is the products of non believers i.e the nicean church fathers.
Even when Shaul was preacing, he avocated for the people being taught to search the scriptures, which other scriptures would have existed then but the Tanakh? The Brit Chadashah would not exist till 369AD as you point out...
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
"'But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of my santuary when the sons of Isreal went astray from me, shall come near to me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer me the fat and the blood,' decares the Lord GOD." Ezekiel 44:15 (NASB)
In regards to the cohen of Zadok, it is not for me to say, Yahweh Himself will appoint the Cohanim who will serve Him in His sanctuary, yet do you not believe that in the remanant of Yisreal that there will be descendant of the lineage of Zadok?
Without a shadow of doubt, the priesthood is given to the sons of Zadok. This is also comfirmed by Yeshua in Matthew.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" Matthew 5:18 (NASB)
However, if you read Hebrew chapters 7-8. It seems that the priesthood has changed. Now Christ is the new priesthood.
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
"'But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of my santuary when the sons of Isreal went astray from me, shall come near to me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer me the fat and the blood,' decares the Lord GOD." Ezekiel 44:15 (NASB)
In regards to the cohen of Zadok, it is not for me to say, Yahweh Himself will appoint the Cohanim who will serve Him in His sanctuary, yet do you not believe that in the remanant of Yisreal that there will be descendant of the lineage of Zadok?
Without a shadow of doubt, the priesthood is given to the sons of Zadok. This is also comfirmed by Yeshua in Matthew.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" Matthew 5:18 (NASB)
However, if you read Hebrew chapters 7-8. It seems that the priesthood has changed. Now Christ is the new priesthood.
Shalom -
Yeshua is our Cohen Hagadol, but if you read Yeshayahu 66, it seems that Yahweh will appoint cohanim and L'vi'im from the peoples of the nations...Originally posted by Creation1656:"'But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of my santuary when the sons of Isreal went astray from me, shall come near to me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer me the fat and the blood,' decares the Lord GOD." Ezekiel 44:15 (NASB)
Without a shadow of doubt, the priesthood is given to the sons of Zadok. This is also comfirmed by Yeshua in Matthew.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" Matthew 5:18 (NASB)
However, if you read Hebrew chapters 7-8. It seems that the priesthood has changed. Now Christ is the new priesthood.
Shalom -
I do not believe in the Nicean creed, but I do believe in Yahweh, Yeshua who saves me and the Ruach Hakkodesh. The Nicene creed is not part of the Tanakh, nor is it part of the Brit Chadashah.Originally posted by Creation1656:Since the church fathers at Nicea were not true believers, but pagans. How do you reconcile the fact that the theology of all the NT churches today are based on the Nicean Creed? May I ask you, as a believer of the NT, do you believe in the Nicean Creed? -
I think we have to remember that the books that form the Brit Chadashah were written by men who lived and fellowshipped with Yeshua, bar Shaul who only had an encounter. Yet, Shaul was a Pharisee who knew the full extent of the Tanakh and Torah. All of the followers of Yeshua would also have been taught the Torah and learned from the Tanakh.Originally posted by Creation1656:Can people now take the position that the NT is "not kosher"? Since the NT is the products of non believers i.e the nicean church fathers.
Shalom
the problem with the church using the Brit Chadashah is that they have no proper foundation hence have a skewed understanding of the Brit Chadashah. People do not read a book from the middle, but from the start to understand the context, yet, this is exactly what the church does. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
Even before the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood in year 2448, when G-d gave the Torah to Moses, there was already the priesthood, in the order of Melchizedek, among the people of the nations. There is no mention, in the OT, of a priesthood under Yeshua, or Yeshua ben Yosef as the High Priest to G-d. There is no Yeshua the Cohan Hagadol in the Torah.
Yeshua is our Cohen Hagadol, but if you read Yeshayahu 66, it seems that Yahweh will appoint Cohanim and L'vi'im from the people of the nations...
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
It is true that the Nicean creed is not found in the OT. But the Nicean creed is certainly preach in the NT. The virgin birth, the death and ressurection of Yeshua, Baptism and remission of sins, Yeshua ascended into heaven and now sit on the right hand of G-d etc.
I do not believe in the Nicean Creed, but I do believe in Yahweh, Yeshua who saves me and the Ruah Hakkodesh. The Nicean Creed is not part of the Tanakh, nor is it part of the Brit Chadashah.
If you have kept all the 613 law of Moses, you are already righteous in the eyes of G-d. Do you still need Yeshua to saves you? Consider these verses.
"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all my statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his trangressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live". Ezekiel 18:21-22
Shalom -
Psalm 110Originally posted by Creation1656:Even before the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood in year 2448, when G-d gave the Torah to Moses, there was already the priesthood, in the order of Melchizedek, among the people of the nations. There is no mention, in the OT, of a priesthood under Yeshua, or Yeshua ben Yosef as the High Priest to G-d. There is no Yeshua the Cohan Hagadol in the Torah.
Shalom
–A Psalm of David.
1 Adonai says to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 Adonai will send your powerful scepter out from Tziyon,
so that you will rule over your enemies around you.
3 On the day your forces mobilize,
your people willingly offer themselves
in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn:
the dew of your youth is yours.
4 Adonai has sworn it,
And will not relent,
“You are a Cohen forever
According to the order of Malki-Tzedek.”
5 Adonai at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.
This is from the Tanakh and it is a prophecy about Yeshua who will be our Cohen Hagadol. -
Shalom!Originally posted by Creation1656:If you have kept all the 613 law of Moses, you are already righteous in the eyes of G-d. Do you still need Yeshua to saves you? Consider these verses.
Shalom
Yeshua is the Messiah, he came not to abolish the "law" or Torah, but to conquer spiritual or eternal death of our souls and restore eternal life back to us, so yes, everyone needs Yeshua, even those who live faithfully by the Torah and Tanakh.
When Adam first sinned, the punishment was spiritual and natural death, the tree of (eternal) life was made inaccessible to mankind. Yeshua came to restore the way to the tree of life and this path has been reopened and made available to mankind now. The door through which we enter to this tree of life is Yeshua, the Messiah, the Word, the Way, Truth and Life.
The law of Moses is really YHVH's Word as given through Moses, it is not some man made "law" or religious belief.