Afterlife and Hell....
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Originally posted by breytonhartge
King David, a man after Hashem heart. In his life, David faced many trials and tribulations. His Psalms reflect his faith and hope in Hashem during trials and tribulations. Psalm 110 is an example. However Christians would like to infer that this Psalm refers to Yeshua. To Christians, Yeshua is both king and High Priest. However I beg to defer.
Psalm 110
–A Psalm of David.
1 Adonai says to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 Adonai will send your powerful scepter out from Tziyon,
so that you will rule over your enemies around you.
3 On the day your forces mobilize,
your people willingly offer themselves
in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn:
the dew of your youth is yours.
4 Adonai has sworn it,
And will not relent,
“You are a Cohen forever
According to the order of Malki-Tzedek.”
5 Adonai at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.
This is from the Tanakh and it is a prophecy about Yeshua who will be our Cohen Hagadol.
Let's look at verse 1 & 5. It is not possible for Yeshua, one person, to be both at the right hand and left hand of Hashem.
Perhaps, we can read Psalm 110 from this angle. King David was facing his final trials during his Kingship. Please read 1 Kings chapters 1 & 2.
His son, Adonijah made himself king against the wishes of his father and Hashem. Adonijah was supported by Joab, commander of David's army, and Abiathar, a high priest under king David, a descendent of Eli.
Zadok, the other high priest under king David remains loyal. Nathan, the prophet and Benaiah, a commander in David's army also remains loyal.
Together the managed to secure the kindship for Solomon, the rightful heir.
"As the LORD has been with my lord the king, so may He be with Solomon, and make his throne greater than the throne of my lord king David". 1 Kings 1:37.
After Zadok and Nathan had anointed Solomon as King, consider what king David said.
"The King has also said thus, 'Blessed be the LORD, the God of Isreal, who has granted one to sit on my throne today while my own eyes see it" 1 Kings 1:48.
This Psalm refer to a young king, Solomon, who has yet to consolidate his rule. With Hashem help, he will consolidate his rule and his kingship will even be more glorious that his father, king David.
Zadok, who remain loyal, became the only high priest under Solomon Kingship. Zadok priesthood is also comfirmed by Hashem in Ezekiel chapter 44.
Shalom -
Originally posted by Yaffa
I do respect your conviction that Yeshua is the Way, Truth and Life. However I beg to differ.
Shalom!
Yeshua is the Messiah, he came not to abolish the "law" or Torah, but to conquer spiritual or eternal death of our souls and restore eternal life back to us, so yes, everyone needs Yeshua, even those who live faithfully by the Torah and Tanakh.
When Adam first sinned, the punishment was spiritual and natural death, the tree of (eternal) life was made inaccessible to mankind. Yeshua came to restore the way to the tree of life and this path has been reopened and made available to mankind now. The door through which we enter to this tree of life is Yeshua, the Messiah, the Word, the Way, Truth and Life.
The law of Moses is really YHVH's Word as given through Moses, it is not some man made "law" or religious belief.
Let us look at these verses:
"But now, if you will, forgive their sin - and if not, please blot me out from your book which you have written!" The LORD said to Moses "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book" Exodus 32:32-33 (NASB)
"But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for allotted portion at the end of the age" Daniel 12:13 (NASB)
It is without a shadow of doubt that Hashem alone will decide who will be included in His book of Life at the end of the age.
Shalom -
This psalm cannot refer to Shlomo because he is not Cohen forever...Originally posted by Creation1656:King David, a man after Hashem heart. In his life, David faced many trials and tribulations. His Psalms reflect his faith and hope in Hashem during trials and tribulations. Psalm 110 is an example. However Christians would like to infer that this Psalm refers to Yeshua. To Christians, Yeshua is both king and High Priest. However I beg to defer.
Let's look at verse 1 & 5. It is not possible for Yeshua, one person, to be both at the right hand and left hand of Hashem.
Perhaps, we can read Psalm 110 from this angle. King David was facing his final trials during his Kingship. Please read 1 Kings chapters 1 & 2.
His son, Adonijah made himself king against the wishes of his father and Hashem. Adonijah was supported by Joab, commander of David's army, and Abiathar, a high priest under king David, a descendent of Eli.
Zadok, the other high priest under king David remains loyal. Nathan, the prophet and Benaiah, a commander in David's army also remains loyal.
Together the managed to secure the kindship for Solomon, the rightful heir.
"As the LORD has been with my lord the king, so may He be with Solomon, and make his throne greater than the throne of my lord king David". 1 Kings 1:37.
After Zadok and Nathan had anointed Solomon as King, consider what king David said.
"The King has also said thus, 'Blessed be the LORD, the God of Isreal, who has granted one to sit on my throne today while my own eyes see it" 1 Kings 1:48.
This Psalm refer to a young king, Solomon, who has yet to consolidate his rule. With Hashem help, he will consolidate his rule and his kingship will even be more glorious that his father, king David.
Zadok, who remain loyal, became the only high priest under Solomon Kingship. Zadok priesthood is also comfirmed by Hashem in Ezekiel chapter 44.
Shalom
Also note here that it is Adonai who said sit... not man. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge
1. Hashem gave the Kingship to the descendents of Solomon.
This psalm cannot refer to Shlomo because he is not Cohen forever...
Also note here that it is Adonai who said sit... not man.
2. Hashem gave the priesehood to the descendents of Zadok.
Let us take a close look at Ezekiel chapters 40-49.
"but the chamber which faces towards the north is for the priest who keep charge of the altar. These are the sons of Zadok, who from the sons of Levi come near to the LORD to minister to Him" Ezekiel 40:46 (NASB)
"He said to me, 'son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Isreal forever..." Ezekiel 43:7 (NASB)
"'You shall give to the Levitical priests who are from the offspring of Zadok, who draw near to Me to minister to Me, declares the Lord GOD, a young bull for a sin offering" Ezekiel 43:19 (NASB)
"But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept my charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Isreal went astray from Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood, declares the Lord GOD." Ezekiel 44:15 (NASB)
"The holy allotment shall be for these, namely for the priests, ..........., and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in its midst. It shall be for the priests who are santified of the sons of Zadok, who kept My charge, who did not go astray when the sons of Isreal went astray as the Levites went astray" Ezekiel 48:10-11 (NASB)
"The city shall be 18,000 cubits round about; and the name of the city from that day shall be 'THE LORD IS THERE'" Ezekiel 48:35 (NASB)
Without a shadow of doubt the priesthood is given by Hashem to the sons of Zadok. Hashem, commanded that only the sons of Zadok shall minister to Hashem, as priests in the eternal temple of Hashem. This direct command of Hashem, was recorded by the prophet Ezekiel, a true prophet of Hashem. However the writer of Hebrew, in the NT has clouded the issue of priesthood. Moreover the authorship of the book of Hebrew cannot be positively identified.
Shalom -
yet you conveniently leave out verse 45 whhcih also reads that there are other chohanim not of the descendants of Zadok.Originally posted by Creation1656:2. Hashem gave the priesehood to the descendents of Zadok.
"but the chamber which faces towards the north is for the priest who keep charge of the altar. These are the sons of Zadok, who from the sons of Levi come near to the LORD to minister to Him" Ezekiel 40:46 (NASB)
Shalom
Also, the verse mentions nothing about appointment of a cohen hagadol which is different from ordinary cohanim. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Let us examine verse 45 and 46
yet you conveniently leave out verse 45 whhcih also reads that there are other chohanim not of the descendants of Zadok.
Also, the verse mentions nothing about appointment of a cohen hagadol which is different from ordinary cohanim.
"He said to me, 'This is the chambers which faces toward the south, intended for the priests who keep charge of the temple; but the chamber which faces north is for the priests who keep charge of the alter. These are the sons of Zadok, who from the sons of Levi come near to the LORD to minister to him.'" Ezekiel 40:45-46 NASB
The Aaronic priesthood is hereditary. Hashem give the priesthood to Aaron and his sons, and their descendents after them. During Isreal's exile in Babylon, Hashem commanded that only the sons of Zadok shall come near to minister to Hashem. The rest of the descendents of Aaron will continue to serve in the Temple of Hashem. According to the OT,Hashem did not rescind their priesthood. Remenber, all the sons of Zadok are Levites but not all Levites are sons of Zadok.
Regarding the appointment of High priest in the OT. Let us examine the scriptures when the Aaronic priesthood was first established in year 2448.
"You shall put the holy garments on Aaron and anoint him and consecrate him, that he may minister as a priest to me." Exodus 40:13 NASB
Hashem commanded that Aaron minister as priest to him. Is Aaron not the high priest to Hashem?
Let us also examine the scriptures regarding Korah's rebellion.
"Then Moses said to Korah, 'Hear now, you sons of Levi, is it not enough for you that the God of Isreal has seperated you from the rest of the congregation of Isreal, to bring you near to Himself, to do the servive of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them; and that He has brought you near, Korah, and all your brothers, sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking for the priesthood slso?". Number 16:8-10 NASB.
1. Only the Levites are allowed to minister to Isreal.
2. The priesthood is given to Aaron and his descendents after him. From the sons of Aaron, Hashem commanded that only the sons of Zadok can come near to minister to Hashem.
Also consider the following scriptures:
"Take Aaron and his son Eleazar and bring them up to mount Hor; and strip Aaron of his garments and put them on his son Eleazar. So Aaron will be gathered to his people, and will die there......After Moses had stripped Aaron of his garments and put them on hs son Eleazar, Aaron died there on the mountain top. Then Moses and Eleazar come down from the mountain." Number 20:25-28 NASB
Zadok was a desecendent of Eleazar. Is Zadok a high priest during the reign of king David? He was the sole high priest during the reign of King Solomon?
I sincerely hope that you read the NT carefully. The NT contains many contradictions and errors that it could not be the words of Hashem. For Hashem is not a man, Hashem is G-d who will not contradict Himself.
Perhaps, you may like to discuss the contradictions in the NT?
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Let us examine verse 45 and 46
yet you conveniently leave out verse 45 whhcih also reads that there are other chohanim not of the descendants of Zadok.
Also, the verse mentions nothing about appointment of a cohen hagadol which is different from ordinary cohanim.
"He said to me, 'This is the chambers which faces toward the south, intended for the priests who keep charge of the temple; but the chamber which faces north is for the priests who keep charge of the alter. These are the sons of Zadok, who from the sons of Levi come near to the LORD to minister to him.'" Ezekiel 40:45-46 NASB
The Aaronic priesthood is hereditary. Hashem give the priesthood to Aaron and his sons, and their descendents after them. During Isreal's exile in Babylon, Hashem commanded that only the sons of Zadok shall come near to minister to Hashem. The rest of the descendents of Aaron will continue to serve in the Temple of Hashem. According to the OT,Hashem did not rescind their priesthood. Remenber, all the sons of Zadok are Levites but not all Levites are sons of Zadok.
Regarding the appointment of High priest in the OT. Let us examine the scriptures when the Aaronic priesthood was first established in year 2448.
"You shall put the holy garments on Aaron and anoint him and consecrate him, that he may minister as a priest to me." Exodus 40:13 NASB
"The priest who is highest among his brothers, on whose head the anointing oil has been poured and who has been conscreted to wear the garments, shall not uncover his head or tear his clothes; nor shall he approach any dead person, nor defile himself even for his father or his mother;....He shall take a wife in her virginity." Leviticus 21:10-13 NASB
Hashem commanded that Aaron minister as priest to him. Is Aaron not the high priest to Hashem?
Let us also examine the scriptures regarding Korah's rebellion.
"Then Moses said to Korah, 'Hear now, you sons of Levi, is it not enough for you that the God of Isreal has seperated you from the rest of the congregation of Isreal, to bring you near to Himself, to do the servive of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them; and that He has brought you near, Korah, and all your brothers, sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking for the priesthood also?". Number 16:8-10 NASB.
1. Only the Levites are allowed to minister to Isreal.
2. The priesthood is given to Aaron and his descendents after him. From the sons of Aaron, Hashem commanded that only the sons of Zadok can come near to minister to Hashem.
Also consider the following scriptures:
"Take Aaron and his son Eleazar and bring them up to mount Hor; and strip Aaron of his garments and put them on his son Eleazar. So Aaron will be gathered to his people, and will die there......After Moses had stripped Aaron of his garments and put them on hs son Eleazar, Aaron died there on the mountain top. Then Moses and Eleazar come down from the mountain." Number 20:25-28 NASB
Zadok was a desecendent of Eleazar. Is Zadok a high priest during the reign of king David? He was the sole high priest during the reign of King Solomon?
I sincerely hope that you read the NT carefully. The NT contains many contradictions and errors that it could not be the words of Hashem. For Hashem is not a man, Hashem is G-d who will not contradict Himself.
Perhaps, you may like to discuss the contradictions in the NT?
Shalom -
last time i saw 1 buddist book.. they gt draw 1 picture.. showing tat christians goes to hell too.. n the hell is the same as the buddist/taoist one lol.. but i oso got hear a nun said tat if the christian is gd.. they go heaven but not to meet jesus tho.. they go up to meet buddha n listen to their teachings.. if cannot change to gd ppl or wad.. den go back to hell -.-
i dun mean aniting.. jus wan 2 share wad i've saw n heard by sum ppl out dere hahs -
Yahweh will not contradict Himself. The contradictions come as a result of flawed understanding on the part of man who employ a roman/greek hellenistic understanding of the Tanakh and not a Hebraic one. If one employs a Hebraic understanding the whole of the Brit Chadashah will be seen in a different light.Originally posted by Creation1656:I sincerely hope that you read the NT carefully. The NT contains many contradictions and errors that it could not be the words of Hashem. For Hashem is not a man, Hashem is G-d who will not contradict Himself.
Perhaps, you may like to discuss the contradictions in the NT?
Shalom -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Even with 'Hebraic' understanding, there are factual discrepancies. Let us examine these verses:
Yahweh will not contradict Himself. The contradictions come as a result of flawed understanding on the part of man who employ a roman/greek hellenistic understanding of the Tanakh and not a Hebraic one. If one employs a Hebraic understanding the whole of the Brit Chadashah will be seen in a different light.
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144 000 sealed from every tribes of Isreal;
From the tribe of Judah, 12 000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12 000, from the tribe of Gad 12 000,
from the tribe of Asher 12 000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12 000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12 000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12 000, from the tribe of Levi 12 000, from the tribe of Issachar 12 000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12 000, from the tribe of Joseph 12 000, from the tribe of Benjamin, 12 000 were sealed." Revelation 7:4-8 NASB
1. Are the above all the tribes of Isreal? What happen to tribe of Dan?
2. Do you have problem with verse 8. Is there a tribe call "Joseph". Consider these scriptures:
"Now your two sons, who are born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, shall be mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine no less than Reuben and Simeon. But the progeny born to you after them shall be yours; they shall be recorded instead (under the names) of their brothers in their inheritance." Genesis 48:5-6 Tanakh (JPS) -
Of course it will be Yahweh who will decide who is included in the book of life at the end of this age.Originally posted by Creation1656:I do respect your conviction that Yeshua is the Way, Truth and Life. However I beg to differ.
Let us look at these verses:
"But now, if you will, forgive their sin - and if not, please blot me out from your book which you have written!" The LORD said to Moses "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book" Exodus 32:32-33 (NASB)
"But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for allotted portion at the end of the age" Daniel 12:13 (NASB)
It is without a shadow of doubt that Hashem alone will decide who will be included in His book of Life at the end of the age.
Shalom
Yeshua taught no different. He came so that we may be righteous before Yahweh because He is our atoning sacrifice once and for all. He came so that we may have the grace to repent. Yeshua is the one that points us to the way of life, making it possible for us to be part of Israel. He is the one that tears down the wall of division ending the enimity between Jew and Goyim so that one new man is made out of the two.
Salvation is the free gift of Yahweh to man, apart from works and the Torah. Salvation is by grace through faith in Yeshua, producing works acceptable to Yahweh. One may not earn, merit, or keep this eternal salvation by his own efforts. However, please remember, faith without works is dead. -
1. The tribe of Dan went into idolatry see Judges 17:1-18:31 also see also Amos 8:11-14.Originally posted by Creation1656:Even with 'Hebraic' understanding, there are factual discrepancies. Let us examine these verses:
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144 000 sealed from every tribes of Isreal;
From the tribe of Judah, 12 000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12 000, from the tribe of Gad 12 000,
from the tribe of Asher 12 000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12 000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12 000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12 000, from the tribe of Levi 12 000, from the tribe of Issachar 12 000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12 000, from the tribe of Joseph 12 000, from the tribe of Benjamin, 12 000 were sealed." Revelation 7:4-8 NASB
1. Are the above all the tribes of Isreal? What happen to tribe of Dan?
2. Do you have problem with verse 8. Is there a tribe call "Joseph". Consider these scriptures:
"Now your two sons, who are born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, shall be mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine no less than Reuben and Simeon. But the progeny born to you after them shall be yours; they shall be recorded instead (under the names) of their brothers in their inheritance." Genesis 48:5-6 Tanakh (JPS)
what does Revelation 7:23 say just before listing those sealed? It says "And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, TILL WE HAVE SEALED THE SERVANTS OF OUR GOD in their foreheads."
The tribe of DAN was not faithful to Yahweh but served idols and false gods.
2. The tribe of Joseph is mentioned because of the loss of Epharim (The tribe of Joseph replaces that of Epharim). The tribe of Epharim is also lost due to idolatry. See Hosea 4:17 and Hosea 7:16.
Hosea 4:17 says, "EPHRAIM IS JOINED TO IDOLS: let him alone."
Hosea 7:1-16 says, "When I would have healed Israel, then THE INIQUITY OF EPHRAIM WAS DISCOVERED, and the wickedness of Samaria: for they commit falsehood; and the thief cometh in, and the troop of robbers spoileth without. And they consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness: now their own doings have beset them about; they are before my face. They make the king glad with their wickedness, and the princes with their lies. They are all adulterers, as an oven heated by the baker, who ceaseth from raising after he hath kneaded the dough, until it be leavened. In the day of our king the princes have made him sick with bottles of wine; he stretched out his hand with scorners. For they have made ready their heart like an oven, whiles they lie in wait: their baker sleepeth all the night; in the morning it burneth as a flaming fire. They are all hot as an oven, and have devoured their judges; all their kings are fallen: there is none among them that calleth unto me. Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned. Strangers have devoured his strength, and he knoweth it not: yea, gray hairs are here and there upon him, yet he knoweth not. And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and THEY DO NOT RETURN TO THE LORD THEIR GOD, nor seek him for all this. Ephraim also is like a silly dove without heart: they call to Egypt, they go to Assyria. When they shall go, I will spread my net upon them; I will bring them down as the fowls of the heaven; I will chastise them, as their congregation hath heard. WOE UNTO THEM! FOR THEY HAVE FLED FROM ME: DESTRUCTION UNTO THEM! because they have transgressed against me: though I have redeemed them, yet they have spoken lies against me. And they have not cried unto me with their heart, when they howled upon their beds: they assemble themselves for corn and wine, and they rebel against me. Though I have bound and strengthened their arms, yet do they imagine mischief against me. They return, but not to the most High: they are like a deceitful bow: their princes shall fall by the sword for the rage of their tongue: this shall be their derision in the land of Egypt."
Hosea 5:9
Ephraim shall be desolate in the day of rebuke;
Among the tribes of Israel I make known what is sure.
Hosea 5:11
Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment,
Because he willingly walked by human precept. -
1. An Isrealite must be born into a tribe, an Isrealite cannot change tribe. So, who will be the people in the tribe of "Joseph". Please read again Genesis 48:5-6.Originally posted by breytonhartge:1. The tribe of Dan went into idolatry see Judges 17:1-18:31 also see also Amos 8:11-14.
what does Revelation 7:23 say just before listing those sealed? It says "And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, TILL WE HAVE SEALED THE SERVANTS OF OUR GOD in their foreheads."
The tribe of DAN was not faithful to Yahweh but served idols and false gods.
2. The tribe of Joseph is mentioned because of the loss of Epharim (The tribe of Joseph replaces that of Epharim). The tribe of Epharim is also lost due to idolatry. See Hosea 4:17 and Hosea 7:16
2. Are you very sure that the tribe of Dan will be cut off from Isreal during the messianic age? Consider these scriptures:
"These are the names of the tribes: At the eastern end, along the Hethlon road, Lebo-hamath to Hazar-enan which is the border of Damascus, with Hamath to the north from the eastern border to the sea: Dan - one tribe." Ezekiel 48:1 Tanakh JPS. Please read Ezekiel chapter 48:2-29.
All the 12 tribes of Isreal are allocated their portions, if tribe of Levi is included then it is 13 tribes in total. There is no tribe of Joseph and there is a tribe of Dan.
Shalom -
The tribe of Joseph actually consisted of Manasseh and Epharim, since Epharim went into idolatry, the Tribe of Joseph replaced it.Originally posted by Creation1656:1. An Isrealite must be born into a tribe, an Isrealite cannot change tribe. So, who will be the people in the tribe of "Joseph". Please read again Genesis 48:5-6.
2. Are you very sure that the tribe of Dan will be cut off from Isreal during the messianic age? Consider these scriptures:
"These are the names of the tribes: At the eastern end, along the Hethlon road, Lebo-hamath to Hazar-enan which is the border of Damascus, with Hamath to the north from the eastern border to the sea: Dan - one tribe." Ezekiel 48:1 Tanakh JPS. Please read Ezekiel chapter 48:2-29.
All the 12 tribes of Isreal are allocated their portions, if tribe of Levi is included then it is 13 tribes in total. There is no tribe of Joseph and there is a tribe of Dan.
Shalom
Yes, I know the verse, did I say the tribe of Dan was cut off? No. I just said that they did not get their blessing. Well since you know so much, then, it is pointless debating with you. You had best argue with Yahweh about whether there will be a tribe of Joseph or not. For ultimately it is He that has final say. Who am I to argue with Him??
The tribe of Levi will never be alloted their portion because Yahweh is their portion. -
Shalom, brother. May the peace of Hashem be with you.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Yes, I know the verse, did I say the tribe of Dan was cut off? No. I just said that they did not get their blessing. Well since you know so much, then, it is pointless debating with you. You had best argue with Yahweh about whether there will be a tribe of Joseph or not. For ultimately it is He that has final say. Who am I to argue with Him?? -
Heaven and hell are concepts for weak minded people...
-
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Judaism don't preach heaven and hell.
Heaven and hell are concepts for weak minded people... -
are you sure you are that strong minded?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Heaven and hell are concepts for weak minded people... -
can give summary or not?Originally posted by Creation1656:Shalom, brother. May the peace of Hashem be with you.
what are the two of you arguing? -
only two pages... go and read lah...Originally posted by Icemoon:can give summary or not?
what are the two of you arguing?
-
It was already confusing from the start.Originally posted by breytonhartge:only two pages... go and read lah...
How come creation tried to answer your questions from a Christian pov .. then end up two of you arguing? -
Originally pocted bt Icemoon:
Should sympathize with the dilemma faced by NT believers, when confronted with the prospect that the NT may not be infallible. BTW the piece you wrote in EH, comparing the writings in Hebrew to Jeremiah, is brilliant.
It was already confusing from the start.
How come creation tried to answer your questions from a Christian pov .. then end up two of you arguing? 
What do you think would be the reactions of NT believers to your thesis? -
purely because brey will NOT accept anything from a Christian POV....Originally posted by Icemoon:It was already confusing from the start.
How come creation tried to answer your questions from a Christian pov .. then end up two of you arguing?
if anything else, brey is very similar to our dear andrew.... will not accept anything other their own POV....
i am not even talking about AGREEING.... merely accept the fact that there are many views and none can really be proven correct or infallible...
... as a cantonese will say: SAI HEI! -
Many NT writings plagiarise from the OT; sometimes the translation (Hebrew to Greek) really yi2 xiao4 da4 fang1.Originally posted by Creation1656:Should sympathize with the dilemma faced by NT believers, when confronted with the prospect that the NT may not be infallible. BTW the piece you wrote in EH, comparing the writings in Hebrew to Jeremiah, is brilliant. What do you think would be the reactions of NT believers to your thesis?
While both sides can argue till cows come home about who is right, one thing is clear - much of the NT was written to convince a Jewish audience that Yeshua is their Messiah. Our contested writings in Hebrews are precisely that; yet I suspect many Christians do not even realize the verses came from Jeremiah! Sadly, or fortunately (depending on whose perspective .. lol), the educated Jews during that time did not fall for the trick.
The modus operandi of the early Christians is clear - when they cannot explain something, they sweep it under the carpet. So when Jesus didn't go back during the same generation, they say He will go back during the millennium. When He still failed, they say next millennium.
So whatever is not fulfilled by Yeshua, it will be fulfilled, according to them, during His Second Coming.
By the way, the second coming is a theological topic by itself, If you are interested, can read up on parousia. -
I reminiscene (sp?) those days when I try to prove him wrong and the Christian POV right.Originally posted by Chin Eng:purely because brey will NOT accept anything from a Christian POV....
if anything else, brey is very similar to our dear andrew.... will not accept anything other their own POV....
Maybe I should do it again.