Wenger: Why I Won't Add Experience To Arsenal
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Arsene Wenger is sticking to his Gunners.
Perhaps only wily Arsene Wenger, who's fielded some obscenely young Arsenal teams over the years, could describe a 27-year-old as over-the-hill.
He told UEFA.com: "You cannot have a youth policy and suddenly buy three players aged 27.
"You destroy what you have done and created. I could have put a player in front of [Theo] Walcott, Denilson and [Cesc] Fabregas, but that would be crazy."
However, most Arsenal fans cite the lack of a couple of wily veterans as the only thing 'crazy' about Wenger's set-up.
The Emirates gaffer refused outright to add experience in the summer and then stripped old head William Gallas of the captaincy, subsequently handing the armband to 21-year-old Fabregas.
Make Room
Justifying his youth-first approach in more detail, he continued: "If you want to develop players and bring them out, then you have to make room for them (in the team). If you don't play him, you lose him."
In turn, Wenger feels that his players are plenty experienced, having been thrown in at the deep end at the fledgling stage.
He added: "Now, we have more experience and more quality, with the players improving year to year."
Despite Wenger's typically bullish words, the Arsenal faithful have been uncharacteristically impatient this term and The Professor's long-term project will perhaps have been in vain if there's no silverware in the cabinet come the summer. -
crazy opinion!
this season if he dont get into the top 4 and miss out UCL spot.
arsenal season may really start to cumble with less income and pressure from fans!,
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I dunno, in theory, the logic is sound. You start with a young team and after a few years of playing together and developments, they will be formidable. However, in the process, you still need veterans to guide the young players in and offer valuable stability and guidance. Also, importantly, because the young team is not expected to win anything for the beginning few years, players may get disillusioned and wanted out - making it easy for big teams to pry away promising players (like flammini to Milan). The challenge is for Wenger to hold onto his young players against the lure of the established teams.
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with the emirates pay structure, i dont think arsenal can hold on to many of its young stars.
maybe arsenal can pay top salary to its top 2 stars such as gallas and fabregas.
the rest are subjected to better offer from other clubs.
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Alan Hansen once said "You can't win anything with kids." But Alex Ferguson made him eat his own word though.
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Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger eyes Everton midfielder Mikel Arteta as Cesc Fabregas cover
London calling: Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger could move for Everton midfielder Mike Arteta as cover for injured captain Cesc Fabregas in January
Arsenal are ready to test Everton's resolve to hold on to their top players by offering £10m for midfielder Mikel Arteta when the transfer window re-opens on January 1.
The 26-year-old, a £2m signing from Real Sociedad in 2005, has been a key figure in the Merseysiders' rise to sixth place in the Barclays Premier League and scored twice in Sunday's win over Sunderland.
Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger believes Arteta is the creative player who can be an immediate replacement for the injured Cesc Fabegras and could eventually form an effective partnership with his fellow Spaniard.
Cash-strapped Everton will find it hard to resist, despite boss David Moyes’ reluctance to lose his star player.
Wenger has earmarked the Spaniard as an ideal replacement for Fabregas, who is out for four months with knee ligament damage.
Wenger wants an experienced player who can go straight into his team without needing time to settle in.
Arteta is in his fifth season in the Premier League and, crucially, he would be available to play in Arsenal’s Champions League campaign, despite appearing for Everton in the UEFA Cup this season.
But it is Arteta’s vision, passing and ability to play anywhere across the midfield which has convinced Wenger the Everton ace is the closest thing to Fabregas.
And Arteta, 26, would prove a valuable long-term addition to Arsenal’s inexperienced young squad rather than just an understudy for his fellow Spaniard.
Wenger did consider making another move for Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso after failing with a £15m bid in August.
But he knows he does not stand a chance of persuading Rafa Benitez to sell — and believes Arteta is a more realistic target.
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Wenger did consider making another move for Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso after failing with a £15m bid in August. <--- £15m for Alonso? lol at least £20m for him!!
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Originally posted by sg_forum:
Alan Hansen once said "You can't win anything with kids." But Alex Ferguson made him eat his own word though.
Actually a word of fairness, when Fergie won the Premier League and FA cup double in 95/96, United had a few experienced players like Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, McClair and not forgetting the King, Cantona to guide the Nevilles, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Butt along.
Arsenal ony has Gallas... Not really a good example t follow eh?
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Arteta for £10m only? Come on la Wenger.
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arteta is quite a good player. i always think he is too good for everton and more suited for arsenal.
he can hold the ball and a very skillful player as well. more impt he is not injury prone player.
asharvin, arteta and yaya toure is good buy!!
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Originally posted by bizzkit0102:
Actually a word of fairness, when Fergie won the Premier League and FA cup double in 95/96, United had a few experienced players like Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, McClair and not forgetting the King, Cantona to guide the Nevilles, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Butt along.
Arsenal ony has Gallas... Not really a good example t follow eh?
Word of fairness, but they also had more than half the team in their early 20s... And I mean really very early... And they went on not just to win the league title, but also did the double with so many young players... Arsenal themselver had their King in Henry but...In 1995/1996 season.
Gary Neville - 20 yrs old - Played 31 games in the League.
David Beckham - 20 yrs old - Played 33 games in the League scored 7 goals
Nicky Butt - 20 yrs old - Played 32 games in the League scored 2 goals
Ryan Giggs - 21 yrs old - Played 33 games in the League scored 11 goals
Paul Scholes - 21 yrs old - Played 26 games in the League scored 10 goals
Phil Neville - 18 yrs old - Played 24 games in the League scored 0 goals
Andy Cole - 24 yrs old - Played 34 games in the League scored 11 goals
Roy Keane - 24 yrs old - Played 29 games in the League scored 6 goals
Arsenal's current players age...
Manuel Almunia 31
William Gallas 31
Mikael Silvestre 31
Kolo Toure 27
Emmanuel Eboue 25Bacary Sagna 25Robin Van Persie 25Emmanuel Adebayor 24
Arsenal's youngsters...Samir Nasri 21Theo Walcott 19Cesc Fábregas 21Gaël Clichy 22Denilson 20 -
without any disrespect for Arsenal and their fans.... but Zocoss... who in Arsenal team is in the mould of P. Schmeichel and Cantona or to a certain extend Keane??? Keane might have been only great after the departure of Cantona but even at that point he and Ince are quietly enforcing the midfield preventing attack on their defences..
as for Giggs????? he is such a talent even at that age, and mind you, he knock out the most expensive youth player (Lee Sharp or something along this name) that SAF at that point of time, during the 93-94 or 94-95 season (if i didn't remember wrongly) there was a poll asking who defenders fear most during that period and Giggs was the player whom more then 50% fear cos they just couldn't figure out what he is up next and the speed of him in full flight...
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i like giggs too =)
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but his hair needs hair treatment though. lol
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and not forgetting that Russian winger Andri Kan..... he is one of the best in the days he is with ManU but fade away after being sold, and the reason of selling him has got nothing to do with his skill or anything.. just that the rules at that point in time states no more then 4 non English players and SAF had to choose between Cantona, Schmeichel, Keane, Irwin, (stand be be corrected) but rule was change again...
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Originally posted by limpper:
but his hair needs hair treatment though. lol
talk about his hair... do you happen to know that he had once cut his hair and Nike issued a so call "warning" to him that if he is to do that again they might consider cancelling his contract...
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Originally posted by Saltiga:
talk about his hair... do you happen to know that he had once cut his hair and Nike issued a so call "warning" to him that if he is to do that again they might consider cancelling his contract...
got meh?
don rmb leh.
lol -
His goal against Arsenal in the FA cup semi final of 1999, fucking epic, fucking epic my friends
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Originally posted by Saltiga:
without any disrespect for Arsenal and their fans.... but Zocoss... who in Arsenal team is in the mould of P. Schmeichel and Cantona or to a certain extend Keane??? Keane might have been only great after the departure of Cantona but even at that point he and Ince are quietly enforcing the midfield preventing attack on their defences..
as for Giggs????? he is such a talent even at that age, and mind you, he knock out the most expensive youth player (Lee Sharp or something along this name) that SAF at that point of time, during the 93-94 or 94-95 season (if i didn't remember wrongly) there was a poll asking who defenders fear most during that period and Giggs was the player whom more then 50% fear cos they just couldn't figure out what he is up next and the speed of him in full flight...
Well, as much as most United fans love Cantona and credit it to the man that made it possible, It was also very much the club that made the man...Cos before Cantona came to United, he was not exactly consider a top footballer... And he had problems with club team-mates and directors way back since his days in France... He didn't had a settled club, he changed clubs like almost every year either because of problems with club fellow players of its directors...
You can imagine in 7 yrs, he move clubs 9 different times by loan or sold away. Not exactly your model player i would say... United was his 8 club he joint in 1992 (Nov)... It was only at United that he truly became a star...
Platini once offered Cantona to then Pool manager Souness but he declined the offer cos he felt Cantona wasn't good enough or he wasn't a great player... In 1992 Jan, Cantona came to England hoping to find a club that would take him... He even went for trial with Sheffield Wed but they didn't offer him a contract so he joint Leeds.
It was only after he joint United that he truly became the player the world respected...
Schmeichel was indeed a classed keeper, but Lehmann wasn't that bad was he?
I believe todays Fabregas is more better than the Keane who first arrived as a 22 yrs old... And by the time the 1995/96 season started, Inch was no longer a United player...
Yes, Giggs was probably the most exciting young player to come out during the mid 90s... Even as a 18 yrs old, he was beating defenders with his amazing runs... If we all think Robben is good today on the left, Giggs was far better than him during those days... Thats how good he was... And that goal against Arsenal's best defence team of (Dixon, Adams, Keown, Winterburn & Seaman) showed just what he was all about.
Kanchelskis was sold partly because Fergie had problems with him... He was one of those that Fergie got rid off in 1995 along with Ince and Mark Hughes who was getting too old and also the emergence of Beck led to Kanchelskis leaving...
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well.. i was wondering if you indeed had such knowledge about him or you've looked up on the wiki about him..but if you've not i give you my fullest respect...
but the main reason for clubs not interested in him is probably his disciplinary problems, SAF had always been able to control players with inflated ego or else they will be thrown out of the door, hence he believe in bring out the best in him, (but it was i guess a gamble which paid off more then he would ever admit) Ince, Keane, Beckham, Stam are just a couple that cross his line and was shown the door even thou ManU at that point in time would be better off with them.. but again SAF had proven he is almost always right, hence his decision had hardly ever been questioned other then when the thingy with his champion horse partner,
also its not always the amount of goals that matters most with him, he did score quite a couple of impotant goals but the main thing in him was that he is someone whom almost everyone look up to.. even player as furry as Keane was in a way still a class below him IMHO, i remember reading an acticle saying both him and Cantona had to attend court or something, Keane went to his house or soemthing and as usual Cantona was with his trademark collar up attire and when Keane asked him, "how can you dress in this way to attend court?" his answer was in my opinion classic.... he said "why not? i'm Cantona!!!" he had such a thing about him that makes ppl wanted to do things for him and thats how the group of youngster mature while playing with him..
as for Lehmann?? again IMHO, he is not even close to Schmeichel if you ask me.. Schmeichel famous long throw to Kan and Giggs is what makes ManU's counter attacking such a serious threat and his one on one is probably the best i've ever seen.. even Cezh or Buffon IMO is cannot be compare to him on one on one.. but i pretty much like that guy from Blackburn, Flowers or something.. during Blackburn hey day he was truly at his peak..
back on Keane against Fab, yes, i would agreed that Fab had better natural talent then Keane but 1st they dun play in the same role in their respective team 2ndly, he had Ince to cover his back when things goes wrong, just like Bruce and Pallister, Bruce was the more vocal one but Pallister was the quiet one cover things up when Bruce speed was exposed.. so in a way they compliment each other but as for Fab, who is going to do the covering??
Kan might have some problems with SAF or rather the other way round (that i had to admit i dunno) but do you happenned to know about the rule change with regards to players nationality during the start of EPL from the England Division one or probably after 2 EPL season?
Becks was indeed a better replacement for Kan in term of what Beckham achived but ManU speed suffer as a result and had to change the way they counter attack
as for Giggs, i had so much respect for him during those days.. but even with his skill and football brain he was told off by SAF for not scoring enough goals..
but all these are just my opinion.. lets go enjoy our new year and hope this year we will get to see more of football discussion then cat fight ard here...
Cheers to all !!!!!
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Originally posted by Saltiga:
well.. i was wondering if you indeed had such knowledge about him or you've looked up on the wiki about him..but if you've not i give you my fullest respect...
but the main reason for clubs not interested in him is probably his disciplinary problems, SAF had always been able to control players with inflated ego or else they will be thrown out of the door, hence he believe in bring out the best in him, (but it was i guess a gamble which paid off more then he would ever admit) Ince, Keane, Beckham, Stam are just a couple that cross his line and was shown the door even thou ManU at that point in time would be better off with them.. but again SAF had proven he is almost always right, hence his decision had hardly ever been questioned other then when the thingy with his champion horse partner,
also its not always the amount of goals that matters most with him, he did score quite a couple of impotant goals but the main thing in him was that he is someone whom almost everyone look up to.. even player as furry as Keane was in a way still a class below him IMHO, i remember reading an acticle saying both him and Cantona had to attend court or something, Keane went to his house or soemthing and as usual Cantona was with his trademark collar up attire and when Keane asked him, "how can you dress in this way to attend court?" his answer was in my opinion classic.... he said "why not? i'm Cantona!!!" he had such a thing about him that makes ppl wanted to do things for him and thats how the group of youngster mature while playing with him..
as for Lehmann?? again IMHO, he is not even close to Schmeichel if you ask me.. Schmeichel famous long throw to Kan and Giggs is what makes ManU's counter attacking such a serious threat and his one on one is probably the best i've ever seen.. even Cezh or Buffon IMO is cannot be compare to him on one on one.. but i pretty much like that guy from Blackburn, Flowers or something.. during Blackburn hey day he was truly at his peak..
back on Keane against Fab, yes, i would agreed that Fab had better natural talent then Keane but 1st they dun play in the same role in their respective team 2ndly, he had Ince to cover his back when things goes wrong, just like Bruce and Pallister, Bruce was the more vocal one but Pallister was the quiet one cover things up when Bruce speed was exposed.. so in a way they compliment each other but as for Fab, who is going to do the covering??
Kan might have some problems with SAF or rather the other way round (that i had to admit i dunno) but do you happenned to know about the rule change with regards to players nationality during the start of EPL from the England Division one or probably after 2 EPL season?
Becks was indeed a better replacement for Kan in term of what Beckham achived but ManU speed suffer as a result and had to change the way they counter attack
as for Giggs, i had so much respect for him during those days.. but even with his skill and football brain he was told off by SAF for not scoring enough goals..
but all these are just my opinion.. lets go enjoy our new year and hope this year we will get to see more of football discussion then cat fight ard here...
Cheers to all !!!!!
Well, to be honest... I did had some knowledged of his problems even before he joint United. The reason why i said it was not just the man who made the club but rather the club that made the man is... Cantona had serious problem way back in France... Maybe he couldn't even stay in France to play thats why he was one of those who came to England during those years when many didn't...
I still recalled when Fergie signed Cantona, there wasn't a big fanfare unlike Berbatov joining United... He was just another player. If anything, the moved from Leeds to United made more headlines than the player itself...
What made Cantona different then and why the fans started to love him was not just because he scored goals... He brought a certain style to United's game. At a time when the old division one and the early premiership was more on physical and brutal force, he was different... They had not seen a player with such skills and style then... His treadmark chips, flicks and back heels brought excitement to the fans... And he did them really well that even today's player don't dare to attempt... should it make them look silly if it doesn't come off.
On Keane, he was a young lad then so he probably didn't dare to throw his weight around like the Keane we eventually came to know...
In my opinion, Lehmann was a very outstanding keeper too... who played every game for Arsenal in that year they when unbeaten and won the epl title... But of course I do rate Schmeichel above him. Seaman was also a very decent keeper at his time.
On Keane and Fab, I have to inform you that Keane was not always the defensive midfielder that we came to know him for in his later years... He was more of an attacking midfielder when he first arrived as a 22 yrs old. He was bought to replace an ageing Robson in the AF role. By 24, Ince (his then defensive partner in midfield) was no longer with him and he had Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes by his side... Butt was always the DM, Keane was the attacking one. Scholes did well playing AM and Keane excel in his role in breaking up plays that Fergie eventually settled on the 4 of Giggs, Scholes, Keane & Beck. Together the 4 was fantastic. So you can see Keane wasn't very different from Fabregas at that age...
Yes, Fergie did had problems with Kanchelskis towards his last year... He became injury prone to a certain extent when Fergie thought he was fit enough while he felt he wasn't... Just like Saha before he was sold also to Everton (ironic)... United lost out to Blackburn in the league and Everton in the FA cup that year. Fergie eventually sold him but he did do well for Everton for a short period tho.
You are correct that they did change the rule in 1995. It came about because of the Bosman rule where all EU members players could moved to whichever club they wanted when their contract expired. So the limited numbers of players one can used was over.
Indeed Giggs was a great player at the height of his career. Unfortunately, he is from Wales therefore never really got the recognition from the rest of the world... But at least he is now the most decorated player with 10 EPL medals, something that would take some beating not just in England but throughout Europe too.
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Originally posted by zocoss:
Well, to be honest... I did had some knowledged of his problems even before he joint United. The reason why i said it was not just the man who made the club but rather the club that made the man is... Cantona had serious problem way back in France... Maybe he couldn't even stay in France to play thats why he was one of those who came to England during those years when many didn't...
I still recalled when Fergie signed Cantona, there wasn't a big fanfare unlike Berbatov joining United... He was just another player. If anything, the moved from Leeds to United made more headlines than the player itself...
What made Cantona different then and why the fans started to love him was not just because he scored goals... He brought a certain style to United's game. At a time when the old division one and the early premiership was more on physical and brutal force, he was different... They had not seen a player with such skills and style then... His treadmark chips, flicks and back heels brought excitement to the fans... And he did them really well that even today's player don't dare to attempt... should it make them look silly if it doesn't come off.
On Keane, he was a young lad then so he probably didn't dare to throw his weight around like the Keane we eventually came to know...
In my opinion, Lehmann was a very outstanding keeper too... who played every game for Arsenal in that year they when unbeaten and won the epl title... But of course I do rate Schmeichel above him. Seaman was also a very decent keeper at his time.
On Keane and Fab, I have to inform you that Keane was not always the defensive midfielder that we came to know him for in his later years... He was more of an attacking midfielder when he first arrived as a 22 yrs old. He was bought to replace an ageing Robson in the AF role. By 24, Ince (his then defensive partner in midfield) was no longer with him and he had Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes by his side... Butt was always the DM, Keane was the attacking one. Scholes did well playing AM and Keane excel in his role in breaking up plays that Fergie eventually settled on the 4 of Giggs, Scholes, Keane & Beck. Together the 4 was fantastic. So you can see Keane wasn't very different from Fabregas at that age...
Yes, Fergie did had problems with Kanchelskis towards his last year... He became injury prone to a certain extent when Fergie thought he was fit enough while he felt he wasn't... Just like Saha before he was sold also to Everton (ironic)... United lost out to Blackburn in the league and Everton in the FA cup that year. Fergie eventually sold him but he did do well for Everton for a short period tho.
You are correct that they did change the rule in 1995. It came about because of the Bosman rule where all EU members players could moved to whichever club they wanted when their contract expired. So the limited numbers of players one can used was over.
Indeed Giggs was a great player at the height of his career. Unfortunately, he is from Wales therefore never really got the recognition from the rest of the world... But at least he is now the most decorated player with 10 EPL medals, something that would take some beating not just in England but throughout Europe too.
i might have abit of different view on Keane thou, those days in my opinion, ManU attack with wingers and excel so much in it that they are so effective in counter attacking with Schmi throwing the ball directly to either Kan or Giggs and let them run the ball to cross line before crossing in for the strikers, for such a tactic to be effective they used both holding midfielders in Keano and ince and yes Keano is probably playing just a tab infront of Ince but not as much Fab who is more of a out and out attcking MF IMHO..
Robsen?? he is one of the main reason why i enjoy watching ManU play...
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Originally posted by Saltiga:
i might have abit of different view on Keane thou, those days in my opinion, ManU attack with wingers and excel so much in it that they are so effective in counter attacking with Schmi throwing the ball directly to either Kan or Giggs and let them run the ball to cross line before crossing in for the strikers, for such a tactic to be effective they used both holding midfielders in Keano and ince and yes Keano is probably playing just a tab infront of Ince but not as much Fab who is more of a out and out attcking MF IMHO..
Robsen?? he is one of the main reason why i enjoy watching ManU play...
Hmmm... I guess we had different recollection of it... The way you mentioned it, yes they did play that kind of counter attack but it wasn't as tho they did it ever so often... They had more to their game than just that. And during Kanchelskis days, It was more of Robson and Ince rather than Keane in the middle... Robson was the attacking midfielder always brave to go in for a challenge but always get himself hurt also. Ince the holding one... Only when Robson retired did Keane really took over... Kanchelskis didn't stayed long after that, he was eventually sold.And another thing is... During those days, United didn't really played with 2 defensive midfielders... Its not their style... Attacking has always been their brand of football so it really don't make sense to have 2 defensive midfielders. I don't think many or any in the old division one or early premier league did... I think it was only when Jose Mourinho came that having a 5 midfielders with 2 defensive ones really took off... United usually played with a 4 - 4 - 2 formation those days even up to 1999 when they won the CL and treble...
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arsenal thread becomes man utd thread.
happy new year folks! -
Originally posted by tripsky:
arsenal thread becomes man utd thread.
happy new year folks!
Get used to it, happens alot of times