Real Madrid and ManU are jokes.
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Well, everyone loves good football!( unless u are not a soccer fan)
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i bet not many pple knew Chelsea bought... Gianfranco Zola the EPL Hall Of Famer for 4.5 mill pound from Parma. Great players like .. Mark Huges, Rudd Gullit, Gianluca Vialli, Brian Laudraup, Marcel Desailly, Frank LeBeouf, Ed De Goey, Cudicini, Dan Petrescu. ALL of them are bought at cheap prices or FREE transfers. Players like Gullit, Vialli (both became chelsea's player/manager), Poyet, Tore Andre Flo(later sold for 10 mill to rangers) all came FREE. Roberto Di Matteo scored the fastest ever goal in the FA cup final. Chelsea have won FA cups, league cup, charity sheild, Euro super league cup, against Real Madrid and the most famous Euro Cup winners cup, the winner scored by none other den Zola. And frequently are in the top 4 of the EPL year in and out. All these acheivements and players bought are done long before Abramovic even came onboard.
Chelsea is a team with proud tradition and history and have been constanly winning silverwares for the past ten years. To say dat success was bought with money is unfair. The groundworks, foundation of the club was built long ago. To able to attract players like Zola, Desailly is sumthing to boast about. -
Well, this is a good one.Originally posted by ^_____^:i bet not many pple knew Chelsea bought... Gianfranco Zola the EPL Hall Of Famer for 4.5 mill pound from Parma. Great players like .. Mark Huges, Rudd Gullit, Gianluca Vialli, Brian Laudraup, Marcel Desailly, Frank LeBeouf, Ed De Goey, Cudicini, Dan Petrescu. ALL of them are bought at cheap prices or FREE transfers. Players like Gullit, Vialli (both became chelsea's player/manager), Poyet, Tore Andre Flo(later sold for 10 mill to rangers) all came FREE. Roberto Di Matteo scored the fastest ever goal in the FA cup final....
But some people has no brain, they thought money alone can bring trophies.
Roberto Di Matteo, a 28 second record! -
Good foodball in what sense?Originally posted by oliverpang:Well, everyone loves good football!( unless u are not a soccer fan)
For example, like clapping and provoking the referee when awarded yellow card? wahahahahaha.............................. -
man u, liverpool, real madrid, newcastle, arsenal and many other teams spent a lot of money buying players too. chelsea is not the only one!!!
the only difference is just that chelsea is spending all in one season what the others spent in a few seasons. -
Originally posted by Jeno:
b) Wayne Rooney - Oh come on ! Made the headlines for the wrong reason ? Where have you been last season ?? How many times has he rescued United ? I dun think making ur Champions League Debut and getting a hat-trick is a bad headline ? Euro 2004 anyone ? This season has not even passed the halfway mark.. and everyone is berating him and United... Anyone recalled that he scored one and made one (albeit racing down 60 yards to provide a pass for RVN) at St. james park this season ??
Let's see..
i. Ronney cheated on his 'wife-to-be', made headlines for hitting on some girl
ii. Loses his temper too easily and too often, gets more yellow cards than any other player at Utd
iii. Recently got sent off for petulance in the match with Villareal.
And he cost what? a whopping 27mil? He has scored some incredible goals yes, but missed some incredible sitters too. Keep that in mind. He's a thug, not a footballer, plain and simple.
And with that kind of price tag, you could get 3 decent quality players to complement the team.
c) Fergie to stand down - I dun really like the 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 formation but if it is the way Chelski is knocking the lights out of other teams.. why can't we use the same formation too ?
Martin O'Neill to be a replacement for Fergie ? Yes.. he had done admirably well at Celtic.. but what has he won ? A few scottish leagues and cups.. where no other teams will win except them n Rangers..
Have not progressed to the last 16 of the champions league b4... His previous job , manager at Leicester wasn't that eye-catching too.. Although he had a weak team ... but then again.. Sam Allarydce didn't inherit a good team.. but he still chop n change till the team he had today..
You're biting off way more than you can chew kiddo. Ferguson was almost SACKED early on when he brought zero trophies to Utd till Cantona came. He was LUCKY that the board decided to stick with him. Other clubs would have KICKED HIM OUT. Since then, he has prospered, also in part because the managers in EPL sucked. Keegan came closest to dethroning him but it was only when Arsene Wenger arrived did he start to shake in his boots.
In comparison, Martin O'Neal turned unfashionable Leicester City from relegation candidates into UEFA cup regulars, with perhaps a tenth of the budget Fergie had. And in his first season at Celtic, he won the Scottish Premier League and cup double. In his first champions league outing, they won all their home games against strong teams like Juve. Man Utd, under fergie, were completely outclassed by those teams in THEIR first UCL outing in the 1990s and at times, given a footballing lesson. This shows the gulf in preparation between O'Neal and Fergie. You're just clutching at straws mate.
What has he won since his U-turn? 1 league title and 1 FA cup. Like i said, poor returns...
I'd say sack the senile man.... -
rooney 27 mill pound.... 27 x 3 = SGD 81 Million !!! How many of us can earn dat in our lifetime ??
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i wonder whose fault it is that most top players are now overpaid. many clubs can hardly survive with that kind of overheads. it is crazy to pay a 30000-120000 pound-a-week salary.
it is bad for football in the long run. -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
Manchester United want to buy players, the price tag will skyrocket easily.
[b]
b) Wayne Rooney - Oh come on ! Made the headlines for the wrong reason ? Where have you been last season ?? How many times has he rescued United ? I dun think making ur Champions League Debut and getting a hat-trick is a bad headline ? Euro 2004 anyone ? This season has not even passed the halfway mark.. and everyone is berating him and United... Anyone recalled that he scored one and made one (albeit racing down 60 yards to provide a pass for RVN) at St. james park this season ??
Let's see..
i. Ronney cheated on his 'wife-to-be', made headlines for hitting on some girl
ii. Loses his temper too easily and too often, gets more yellow cards than any other player at Utd
iii. Recently got sent off for petulance in the match with Villareal.
And he cost what? a whopping 27mil? He has scored some incredible goals yes, but missed some incredible sitters too. Keep that in mind. He's a thug, not a footballer, plain and simple.
And with that kind of price tag, you could get 3 decent quality players to complement the team.
[/b]
Not everyone will be willing to sell them at 8-9 m pounds without sucking their blood. Now Chelsea is getting the same...
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I think some people forgot Man U and Real Madrid have been doing that for years. It's definite not Chelsea fault. Not at all.Originally posted by dragg:i wonder whose fault it is that most top players are now overpaid. many clubs can hardly survive with that kind of overheads. it is crazy to pay a 30000-120000 pound-a-week salary.
it is bad for football in the long run.
Man U and Real Madrid paying sky high to buy stars in the pass. At that time, Chelsea is one of the poor things who can only grab cheap and free players.
Aiya, now Man U no money to buy, then they say people spoilt the game by paying sky high money, how about themselves in the pass? This Mr F-Up really suxxx. He failed to get great player, say so lah, his tactics failed, say so lah, his techniques failed, say so lah, what for blaming people spend a lots? -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
haha.. some of your comments are laughable.. but i respect your opinions.. kindly let me do some rebuts on my own.. no offense thou.. this is all for the sake of some friendly debate..
[b]
b) Wayne Rooney - Oh come on ! Made the headlines for the wrong reason ? Where have you been last season ?? How many times has he rescued United ? I dun think making ur Champions League Debut and getting a hat-trick is a bad headline ? Euro 2004 anyone ? This season has not even passed the halfway mark.. and everyone is berating him and United... Anyone recalled that he scored one and made one (albeit racing down 60 yards to provide a pass for RVN) at St. james park this season ??
Let's see..
i. Ronney cheated on his 'wife-to-be', made headlines for hitting on some girl
ii. Loses his temper too easily and too often, gets more yellow cards than any other player at Utd
iii. Recently got sent off for petulance in the match with Villareal.
And he cost what? a whopping 27mil? He has scored some incredible goals yes, but missed some incredible sitters too. Keep that in mind. He's a thug, not a footballer, plain and simple.
And with that kind of price tag, you could get 3 decent quality players to complement the team.
c) Fergie to stand down - I dun really like the 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 formation but if it is the way Chelski is knocking the lights out of other teams.. why can't we use the same formation too ?
Martin O'Neill to be a replacement for Fergie ? Yes.. he had done admirably well at Celtic.. but what has he won ? A few scottish leagues and cups.. where no other teams will win except them n Rangers..
Have not progressed to the last 16 of the champions league b4... His previous job , manager at Leicester wasn't that eye-catching too.. Although he had a weak team ... but then again.. Sam Allarydce didn't inherit a good team.. but he still chop n change till the team he had today..
You're biting off way more than you can chew kiddo. Ferguson was almost SACKED early on when he brought zero trophies to Utd till Cantona came. He was LUCKY that the board decided to stick with him. Other clubs would have KICKED HIM OUT. Since then, he has prospered, also in part because the managers in EPL sucked. Keegan came closest to dethroning him but it was only when Arsene Wenger arrived did he start to shake in his boots.
In comparison, Martin O'Neal turned unfashionable Leicester City from relegation candidates into UEFA cup regulars, with perhaps a tenth of the budget Fergie had. And in his first season at Celtic, he won the Scottish Premier League and cup double. In his first champions league outing, they won all their home games against strong teams like Juve. Man Utd, under fergie, were completely outclassed by those teams in THEIR first UCL outing in the 1990s and at times, given a footballing lesson. This shows the gulf in preparation between O'Neal and Fergie. You're just clutching at straws mate.
What has he won since his U-turn? 1 league title and 1 FA cup. Like i said, poor returns...
I'd say sack the senile man....
[/b]
1) Ronney cheated on his 'wife-to-be', made headlines for hitting on some girl ---> Did anyone noticed that John Terry was an alcoholic and Jonathan Woodgate was involved in some racist attacks.. Jamie Carragher was doing a striptease during a Xmas party.. Ryan Giggs and Stan Collymore beating up their wives/gf... Owen a die-hard gambler.. but come to think of it.. no one knows or cares... why ? because they ain't big enuff a star ?
2) Loses his temper too easily and too often, gets more yellow cards than any other player at Utd ----> Gets more yellow cards ? Hmmm.. i dun see him got suspended for Man Utd too often last season.. Seems like you are clutching at straws for this point.. (to quote you .. )
3) Recently got sent off for petulance in the match with Villareal. ---> this point is valid.. he deservedly got sent off for such a stupid issue.. i m not going to say because he is young or bullshit like that... but all i can say that he is now trying his best to curb that weakness...and for me.. that is good enough...
But then again.. even the Great Zidane got sent off more than once.. France 98.. stamped on a Saudi Arabia player.. isn't that worse than clapping at a ref ?
About missing sitters.. oh come on.. i suppose anyone missed sitters.. Shevchenko, anyone ? In the CL final.. missed from 2 yards out ? Adriano ? played for brazil.. open goal.. hit the post instead ?
Everyone is saying that he is a thug.. i dun know whether the media has been selling their stories successfully or whether u all have been watching the game... yes.. he swears.. he runs with the ball and doesn't get knock down.. he uses his massive size and strength ... is that considered a thug ? i dun see anyone brand Duncan Ferguson as a thug ?!
4) "You're biting off way more than you can chew kiddo." This sentence has no reference to anything.. Dun use a phrase just for the sake of using it cause it has no relevance at all .. Liked i said Martin O'Neill did reasonably well both at Leicester and Celtic.. but as u said with a tenth of a budget.. he got Leicester to UEFA hopefuls.. Big Sam got Bolton to UEFA with a budget even lesser than what MArtin O'Neill had ... does it make him a much better manager ? i would think so...
Another valid point made by another forumite is that clubs will sell their players at a much higher price .. especially if the buying club is man utd or chelski... that's a fact.. i can't deny that Rooney and Ferdinand are overpriced.. but so too are SWP , Drogba and Essien.. to name a few...
Btw.. one more thing.. it wasn't Cantona who saved Fergie's arse.. it was a virtual unknown (can't remember his name) who got United the FA cup.. and it spared Fergie the chop...
I don think anyone can deny the fact that Martin O'NEill has more misses than hits in the CL.. Fergie has had more than his fair share of rough times in the Champions LEague.. but so too does Arsenal.. Arsene Wenger has also found the Champions League a tough nut to crack...
And liked i said.. Scottish Premier LEague is onli abt 2 teams.. celtics and rangers.. tell me how hard is it to do a double ? when fergie took over united.. i need to stress that united hasn't won anything at all for a long long time... and during those times.. Liverpool was the king... Arsenal was the challengers.. and Nottingham Fores (yes.. FOrest!) was among the Euro elites.. u really can't compare anything in terms of league success... if that is the case.. Rosenborg's manager must be the best of all time.. cause rosenborg has won their norwegian league for 10yrs consecutive ( i think so.. )
"What has he won since his U-turn? 1 league title and 1 FA cup. Like i said, poor returns..." ... Liked i said too.. This league is no longer just about Man Utd... U certainly dun expect United to win 4 out of 4 ? isn't it ?
All in all.. of course Ferguson made mistakes.. and quite a lot in recent times.. but i would think that the gaffer deserve more than a chance.. Ppl talked abt overpriced players.. but if u win.. no one would care 2 hoots abt it.. that's the fact... and of course.. the season has onli jus began.. U certainly dun present the Championship in Sept...
United We Stand
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i wonder.... Y no ppl says other club that spent alot but also din do every well like barce few seasons back.. they spent lots of $$ but got a mid table placing.. newcastle spend also but no ppl kb they jokes or wad... how liverpool??? u noe how much they spent, they many pay not alot for 1 player but they bought lots of useless ones. Cummon.. it is the clubs ppl hate la... chelsea will be the next wan if it fails...
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Originally posted by Jeno:
1) Did anyone noticed that John Terry was an alcoholic and Jonathan Woodgate was involved in some racist attacks.. Jamie Carragher was doing a striptease during a Xmas party.. Ryan Giggs and Stan Collymore beating up their wives/gf... Owen a die-hard gambler.. but come to think of it.. no one knows or cares... why ? because they ain't big enuff a star ?
What has comparing other players who screwed up got to do with rooney's cheating? You wanted valid points to show why he is screwed, i gave them. For everything you raised, i could name a whole list who were model professionals from day one with zero black marks to their names. Oliver Bierhoff, Paolo Maldini, Bobby Charlton etc etc.
2) Gets more yellow cards ? Hmmm.. i dun see him got suspended for Man Utd too often last season.. Seems like you are clutching at straws for this point.. (to quote you .. )
Can your arguments get any dumber? getting 1 yellow a game does not equal a suspension. But sure, let him accumulate them and get loads of suspension this season. Let's see how that goes.
But then again.. even the Great Zidane got sent off more than once.. France 98.. stamped on a Saudi Arabia player.. isn't that worse than clapping at a ref ?
Sure. Another no-brainer comparison....shall i list all the career ending tackles by players too? Then you can compare those...why stop at Zidane?
About missing sitters.. oh come on.. i suppose anyone missed sitters.. Shevchenko, anyone ? In the CL final.. missed from 2 yards out ? Adriano ? played for brazil.. open goal.. hit the post instead ?
Won't waste my time answering this.
Everyone is saying that he is a thug.. i dun know whether the media has been selling their stories successfully or whether u all have been watching the game... yes.. he swears.. he runs with the ball and doesn't get knock down.. he uses his massive size and strength ... is that considered a thug ? i dun see anyone brand Duncan Ferguson as a thug ?!
I branded his off-field antics as 'thug', not on-field. On the field, he's more of a bull.
4) "You're biting off way more than you can chew kiddo." This sentence has no reference to anything.. Dun use a phrase just for the sake of using it cause it has no relevance at all .. Liked i said Martin O'Neill did reasonably well both at Leicester and Celtic.. but as u said with a tenth of a budget.. he got Leicester to UEFA hopefuls.. Big Sam got Bolton to UEFA with a budget even lesser than what MArtin O'Neill had ... does it make him a much better manager ? i would think so...
You obviously have no idea what you're blabbering. Look at Leicester and Bolton first. 90% of Leicester were british players with a handful like muzzy izzet as foreign players bought in the transfer market. He barely spent much and brought in home-grown players. This tradition was followed by peter taylor after he took over.
Big Sam pretty much bought an entire team. How many british players are there? From GK to Striker, i count only Kevin Nolan, simon davis, gary speed, ian walker and joey o'brien. And half of them are not first team players.
'budget even lesser than what MArtin O'Neill had'??? You dun even have your facts right.
Another valid point made by another forumite is that clubs will sell their players at a much higher price .. especially if the buying club is man utd or chelski... that's a fact.. i can't deny that Rooney and Ferdinand are overpriced.. but so too are SWP , Drogba and Essien.. to name a few...
agreed. The bigger the clubs, the higher the asking price. It's better to buy overseas players than british ones.
Btw.. one more thing.. it wasn't Cantona who saved Fergie's arse.. it was a virtual unknown (can't remember his name) who got United the FA cup.. and it spared Fergie the chop...
Care to find out who this virtual unknown is? Everyone knows that cantona was the missing puzzle when he arrived from leeds. Before then, Utd were always so close yet so far...
I don think anyone can deny the fact that Martin O'NEill has more misses than hits in the CL.. Fergie has had more than his fair share of rough times in the Champions LEague.. but so too does Arsenal.. Arsene Wenger has also found the Champions League a tough nut to crack...
Based on the total time SPENT in the UCL, Martin O'Neal has progressed much further than Fergie. You never bothered to read my post. O'neal turned Celtic (hardly a proven european team before his arrival) into giant killers in his FIRST season in UCL. Bit players like Stillian Petrov and Didier Agathe became transfer targets after their incredible season and even sparked talk of Eng players like Chris Sutton returning to the England side. If you're comparing the two, then there's just one UCL title between them. Were he at Utd, he woud have brought similar if not more success to Utd.
And liked i said.. Scottish Premier LEague is onli abt 2 teams.. celtics and rangers.. tell me how hard is it to do a double ? when fergie took over united.. i need to stress that united hasn't won anything at all for a long long time... and during those times.. Liverpool was the king... Arsenal was the challengers.. and Nottingham Fores (yes.. FOrest!) was among the Euro elites.. u really can't compare anything in terms of league success... if that is the case.. Rosenborg's manager must be the best of all time.. cause rosenborg has won their norwegian league for 10yrs consecutive ( i think so.. )
And Utd continued to win nothing for a few years when he came over....it doesn't downplay the SPL's achievements or that of their coaches. Glassglow rangers and now Celtic are capable of competing against the best in europe, never mind SPL or EPL.
The only reason why EPL is 'more popular' or more 'successful' is because sponsers pump in huge sums to promote teams and players and they get overpriced deals for television coverage.
"What has he won since his U-turn? 1 league title and 1 FA cup. Like i said, poor returns..." ... Liked i said too.. This league is no longer just about Man Utd... U certainly dun expect United to win 4 out of 4 ? isn't it ?
No, but as a fan i do expect a consistent top two finish, considering the kind of money you pump in to buy 'quality' players and the fact that Fergie is also unusually bullish of the chances of league and european success.
All in all.. of course Ferguson made mistakes.. and quite a lot in recent times.. but i would think that the gaffer deserve more than a chance.. Ppl talked abt overpriced players.. but if u win.. no one would care 2 hoots abt it.. that's the fact... and of course.. the season has onli jus began.. U certainly dun present the Championship in Sept...
Obviously, nobody cares if overpriced players win trophies...he proved it during 99-00 season with the treble. But with a stuttering start to the season, it's already beginning to look like Chelski's title all the way. Let's see how he manages....he's already screwed-up Man Utd's formation, just lost roy keane, maybe giggs is next to go...maybe we should let him stay on...so he can get sacked. -
i quote "Glassglow rangers and now Celtic are capable of competing against the best in europe, never mind SPL or EPL. " ...
for this line.. i onli got one thing to say... Artmedia.. Celtic got knocked out by this team.. remember ? i certainly dun think that Artmedia is included in your list of best teams in Europe ? dun u think so too ?
yes.. a fluke.. u might say..
then u would carry on saying that Man utd lost to poorer teams b4...
Another no brainer comparison ?
"Can your arguments get any dumber? getting 1 yellow a game does not equal a suspension. But sure, let him accumulate them and get loads of suspension this season. Let's see how that goes. "
haha.. dumber ? i dun think u get my point at all.. dude..
let him accumulate them ? i quote again.. u mentioned that he gets more yellow cards than any other player at united... i m very sure that is not the case..
and the matter of fact is that if he doesn't get suspended.. who cares abt how many yellows he collect... (p.s. i do know that 1 yellow doesn't mean 1 game suspension.. duhx)
u were right in saying that for every i raised.. you could mention a whole list of players who did wrong things too.. that's the main point ! then why are u listing off rooney's cheating and so for ? when so many other players are doing those shite too ? jus a personal opinion of mine..
"Won't waste my time answering this." this is in regards to missing sitters.. maybe i shouldn't answer you on this point in the 1st place.. cause it is an absolute no-brainer point from u in the 1st place..
Regarding abt Big Sam n Martin O'Neill (not O'Neal.. he's not some black american basketball player.. duhx) ..
Does it mean that u buy British players and not foreign players.. equate to u being a good manager ? Get a life dude ! duhx...
"'budget even lesser than what MArtin O'Neill had'??? You dun even have your facts right. " ---> then u showed me the facts ...
Abt cantona.. yes.. he revolutionsed united.. but it wasn't him who spared Fergie from the chop... that's my point..
"Based on the total time SPENT in the UCL, Martin O'Neal has progressed much further than Fergie." .. care to enlighten me on this point ? how do you count the progression ? on an average ? How many times did O'Neill got celtic into the last 8.. the answer is a resounding 0...
how many had fergie brought them in there ? at least 8 times...
that's ur answer... i dun count the CL Victory in 99.. there isn't even a need to compare...
All in all.. my final point is that ... yes.. we might have screwed up.. but calling for Fergie's head is definitely not the solution right now... Fans have always been calling for loyalty from players... but where's the loyalty from them in showing support for "arguably" the best manager of all time ? -
Obviously, you seem too eager to polish your dirt than admit that Man Utd have flaws which ferguson (which you blindly proclaim 'the best manager of all time") can't seem to correct.Originally posted by Jeno:i quote "Glassglow rangers and now Celtic are capable of competing against the best in europe, never mind SPL or EPL. " ...
for this line.. i onli got one thing to say... Artmedia.. Celtic got knocked out by this team.. remember ? i certainly dun think that Artmedia is included in your list of best teams in Europe ? dun u think so too ?
yes.. a fluke.. u might say..
then u would carry on saying that Man utd lost to poorer teams b4...
Another no brainer comparison ?
"Can your arguments get any dumber? getting 1 yellow a game does not equal a suspension. But sure, let him accumulate them and get loads of suspension this season. Let's see how that goes. "
haha.. dumber ? i dun think u get my point at all.. dude..
let him accumulate them ? i quote again.. u mentioned that he gets more yellow cards than any other player at united... i m very sure that is not the case..
and the matter of fact is that if he doesn't get suspended.. who cares abt how many yellows he collect... (p.s. i do know that 1 yellow doesn't mean 1 game suspension.. duhx)
u were right in saying that for every i raised.. you could mention a whole list of players who did wrong things too.. that's the main point ! then why are u listing off rooney's cheating and so for ? when so many other players are doing those shite too ? jus a personal opinion of mine..
"Won't waste my time answering this." this is in regards to missing sitters.. maybe i shouldn't answer you on this point in the 1st place.. cause it is an absolute no-brainer point from u in the 1st place..
Regarding abt Big Sam n Martin O'Neill (not O'Neal.. he's not some black american basketball player.. duhx) ..
Does it mean that u buy British players and not foreign players.. equate to u being a good manager ? Get a life dude ! duhx...
"'budget even lesser than what MArtin O'Neill had'??? You dun even have your facts right. " ---> then u showed me the facts ...
Abt cantona.. yes.. he revolutionsed united.. but it wasn't him who spared Fergie from the chop... that's my point..
"Based on the total time SPENT in the UCL, Martin O'Neal has progressed much further than Fergie." .. care to enlighten me on this point ? how do you count the progression ? on an average ? How many times did O'Neill got celtic into the last 8.. the answer is a resounding 0...
how many had fergie brought them in there ? at least 8 times...
that's ur answer... i dun count the CL Victory in 99.. there isn't even a need to compare...
All in all.. my final point is that ... yes.. we might have screwed up.. but calling for Fergie's head is definitely not the solution right now... Fans have always been calling for loyalty from players... but where's the loyalty from them in showing support for "arguably" the best manager of all time ?
Footballers should remember that while they are big earners, they should remain role models. The only publicity Rooney has earned so far is negative and considering his youth, that likely bodes worse things to come; unless he changes. I have stated the reasons why he was a bad buy at 27 Mil pounds but for reasons only the blind can answer, you choose to evade them and draw irrelevant parallel comparisons.
For Celtic, i would not waste time drawing comparisions to MU's losses to poorer teams. Bratislava came back from 2 goals down to beat FC Porto in their own stadium. So don't rationalise this team as small. They've proven that a compact game can hurt giants. FC Thun also notched a first in beating Sparta Prague, proving that there is no such thing as small teams anymore in the UCL.
And yes, it was an obvious 5-0 fluke, especially when the return leg was 4-0 in their favour. I would also add that O'Neill left Celtic and for gordon strachan, a relatively inexperienced manager at european level, it would take time to forge a new era.
Being already aware that Martin spent a fraction of the time in UCL then ferguson, how can you directly compare the two? Saying that Fergie reached as many quarter finals as he did compared to O'Neill's zero is simply contemptuous.
By comparing the quality of celtic's first season in UCL, with all the points i raised, anyone (except the blind) will admit they performed admirably, beating difficult teams like Barca and Juve. And they only missed out on the 2nd round by a single point. Would Man Utd have performed that well in their first season had they been grouped with such giants? After being 'taught a football lesson' in their first season UCL by Juve back in the 90s, the answer will be a resounding no.
And yes, with so many seasons in UCL, if fergie didn't get past the group stage each time, he would be out of a job.
Celtic had nowhere near the resources as Man Utd did and O'Neill spent prudently to get the best out of mid-priced players and journeymen, footballers like Chris Sutton, John Hartson and Neil Lennon. In the last 3 years, Ferguson has spent millions on players like Rio Ferdinard, Tim Howard, louis saha, david bellion and kleberson and he has failed to get the most out of them.
Worst, kleberson was sold, tim howard suddenly lost form and is now relegated to the sub's bench, bellion plays more with the reserves then the first team and rio ferdinard stalled on his contract negotiations, drawing the wraith of both manager and fans, this coming after the much-publicised debacle of his missed doping test.
Evidently, you avoid the points i raised regarding O'Neill's abilities and instead choose to banter on rubbish. READ my post again on Sam and Martin at Bolton and Leicester.
Did i say managers who buy foreign players = bad managers? Do you even open your eyes when you read? What separates the two is the use of youth system and homegrown talent vs BUYING a new team.
You reply with delusional arguments and irrelevant snide remarks and expect me to take you seriously? If you don't even know what both Allardyce and O'Neill spent on their squads, then don't try to manoeuvre that info out of me. Go do some real research before posting trash. -
There is something really wrong with united now.. no doubt.The midfield is and the formation is the one that made United not the same as b4, lack of a midfield anchor man n a creative player.. They depend too much on the flank player this season and last season. but i dun think u say sam n O'neil being the better compare to fergie, he make what ManU is today dude !! He take over a ManU side that is a bad team during the late eighties, buget limited too, but see what he brought?? The great dane , cantona and keane comes cheap n do wonder for the club and lets not forget he train the likes of beckham, sharpe, neviles, scholes and butt. Alot of player came to United cheap n unknown too. It is during the big $$ spending stars that fergie make mistake with.
Bolten dun tell me nv make any wrong signing? jardel? every club sure will have bad signings, onli to see if the player little or much. So i dun see how u can compare the manager by its signing, only some remain unknown while others ppl talk alot abt it. You may say its a waste of $$ signing rooney coz of the temperament, but lots of the top player has bad attidude as well. Cantona did his kungfu kick. Di canio push the Ref. Keane also KP so much during his whole career. This dun make them bad players what, somemore he is still young and time will make him a better person la.. -
I never said Sam Allardyce was a bigger manager than Fergie.
I was answering in response to Jeno's earlier claim that Big Sam formed his squad with a fraction of what Martin O'Neill spent on Leicester City, which is untrue.
Suggest you re-read the posts again. -
a team's success should be judged based on its ability to win a domestic league title, not cups. consistency is important in winning league titles. fergie will remain as the premiership's best coach for many years to come. the only one who can beat his record is probably mourihno. but he has to win at least 7 more league titles and 1 champions league to prove it.
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i can onli say.. to each his own..
i respect your opinion.. hopefully u respect mine..
but it sure seems like u dun respect any opinions except yours own..
u "politely asked" me to read ur views.. but i would like to ask u if u DID read mine properly too ?
i said fergie was arugably the best manager of all time.. did u missed out some word there ? Arguably ?
and critizing other ppl's views as trash ? hmmm.. maybe u need to learn some well-groomed manners.. not that i m that well a person.. but mutual respect between forumites is the very least we can ask for...
i will be the 1st one to admit that united have flaws.. as i did mentioned alot of times in my previous post.. why can't u take a proper look at it ? hmm.. weird..
as for celtic.. it wasn't me who mentioned that they can take on the best teams in Europe.. for the record.. it was you , BillyBong who mentioned it..
that's why i had to inform u that Artmedia wasn't that good a team to be ranked in the best of Europe, isn't it ? Dun u agree ??
U carried on saying that FC Thun also went n claimed their 1st victory.. and therefore proving that there is no small thing.. i would like to know if United lose to Artmedia 5-0... would u say that too ? or berate Man U for the uncompromising defeat ?
yeah.. i know that O'neill.. n strachan took over.. but it is you again .. who proclaim.. NOW.. Celtic can take on the best of teams in Europe.. maybe u can take alook at ur own posts too ?
Yes.. i agreed that Celtic did well in the 1st season in UCL.. but what after that ? u kept on harping abt the same old achievements of beating barca n juve... one season wonder is nothing to rave abt .. ask Everton on this..
As i said b4.. u kept on picking on Fergie's poor buys and compared them to O'Neill's good buys.. of coz.. fergie can't win...
again i will be the 1st one to admit that fergie made alot of mistakes in the transfer market.. Kleberson was a total flop.. Howard excelled during the start and faded away badly.. not to mention the out-of-sorts Eric Djemba Djemba..
i had to apologise for the Bolton n Celtic squads info.. cause i tot that u were mentioning abt the players they bought.. as u mentioned Muzzy Izzet.. i do apologise for my slip of an eye...
i do know that some points i made were nt totally correct.. and i do apologise for that..
but it seems like you being you.. nv one to admit that you were wrong.. hmmm...
i still can't get over the word.. trash... maybe u really need to learn some respect.. be it the hard way or not... -
I am with Jeno!
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In comparison, Martin O'Neal turned unfashionable Leicester City from relegation candidates into UEFA cup regulars, with perhaps a tenth of the budget Fergie had. And in his first season at Celtic, he won the Scottish Premier League and cup double. In his first champions league outing, they won all their home games against strong teams like Juve. Man Utd, under fergie, were completely outclassed by those teams in THEIR first UCL outing in the 1990s and at times, given a footballing lesson. This shows the gulf in preparation between O'Neal and Fergie. You're just clutching at straws mate.
Can tell me what u means by this???? Martin O'Neal is a better manager? -
Does more preparation in one season make him a better manager than fergie?Originally posted by tarcki:Can tell me what u means by this???? Martin O'Neal is a better manager?
Did i openly tout Martin O'Neill as a BETTER manager than Fergie?
I saw Martin O'Neill as a suitable replacement for fergie should the latter be sacked or decides to really step down. He is both resourceful and capable and has earned the respect of players and coaches in the clubs he has so far managed.
Hence i mentioned his name and his achievements.
As for whether Fergie deserves the 'best manager' title, you have to look at other managers who have managed abroad and won titles, like Giovanni Trappattoni (Bungdesliga and Serie A titles) and Fabio Capello (La Liga and Seria A titles) or Velibor Milutinovic who has coached 5 nations to the world cup finals.
All are capable strategists and should be respected. -
response to Jeno
As always you seem ready to paint a person based solely on your opinions. It is because i read and re-read your opinions that i responded the way I have.
So you intend to harp on the word 'arguably'? Throughout your posts, you have steadfastly maintained that fans should give him a chance; that Fergie is perhaps the best manager and his track record speaks for itself. So are you or are you not saying he is indeed ‘the best manager of all time’? Don’t use modal terms and sit on the fence, switching sides when questioned.
For someone who has just 40+ posts and is ‘arguably’ a newbie, don’t lecture others about respect. This discussion started when you CHOSE to rebut my comments with half-facts and snappy remarks. And you speak of respect? If you’re not prepared for the subsequent replies, then why bother to criticize?
As for the suggestion if MUFC lost 5-0 to Artmedia Bratislava, the repercussions would have been a little of both, knowledge that a big club underestimated a relative unknown and the fact that big clubs donÂ’t have enough respect for small ones. For me, I would view it as just another failure of the manager, not the club as a whole.
And I stand by the fact that Celtic can compete with the best. Of course after selling their top marksman in Henrik Larsson to Barca and losing several of their core midfield players in the last 2 years, expect another revolution in the works before they eventually get back in the champions league. ItÂ’s the same if Man Utd sold Ruud van Nisterooy and a number of core players. As everyone knows, the number of headed goals and goal ratio from open play per season dropped after MUFC sold Beckham to Real Madrid.
As for whether one-hit wonders are anything to crow about, there is no need to ask Everton, since they didnÂ’t even make it past Villarreal and has now stumbled out of the UEFA cup. But i agree, Celtic should have done better after that magnificant season.
Did OÂ’Neill ever make a bad buy? All the players he brought to Celtic and even the ones with him at Leicester were bit players, certainly nowhere near the big-spending players Man Utd signed. I agree that the profile of such players will inevitably mean a failure will be blown out of proportion when compared to fringe professionals. But thatÂ’s life. Fergie can learn from Wenger and buy players without an inflated price tag. Or choose not to be held to ransom by the selling clubs.
I speak frankly as a person. If by now you havenÂ’t realized from my past posts in various threads, I am also a Man Utd Fan. Unlike you, I prefer to focus on areas the club can improve. There is no point basking in past glory. Man UtdÂ’s treble was the pinnacle of their achievement. Now everything is going downhill. By selling Stam to AC Milan over his autobiography, Fergie showed how petulant he can get, especially when Stam was his rock in defence and had just signed a new contract.
Mistakes by ferguson are compounded by still more mistakes. I love the club, but I refuse to allow one manÂ’s pride to bring about its downfall. Excellent young players like Ronaldo, fletcher, OÂ’shea and perhaps promising youths like Chris Eagles, John Spector and Kieran Richardson may depart if the next few seasons end up trophy-less.
That is a fate worst than Malcolm Glazer's recent takeover. -
COME ON!!! ALL OF U ARE MANUTD FANS>!
PEACE!......
UNITED FOREVER,UNITED WE STAND -
United We Stand