Should Genghis Khan period be considered as World War 1?
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
hahahaha very entertaining . but pardon me from my illiterate on music, I can only say that the Second clips are more 'Arabian' kind of music .
To add in to what I No Stupid typed above . The Mongol conquest death toll is approximately 40 millions . I personally think such event should be labelled as "World War" since more than 10 kingdoms participated in it and involved Many parts of Asia and Many Parts of Europe regardless whether it is involving America and London and Paris . 40 millions means something .
Yup. The best part is that the mongols used ancient weapons like swords, arrows etc to kill 40 million people.Imagine if they started the war in the 1930s and had the same weapons like bombs, guns etc.
I think everybody in the world will be dead liao
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Still....nothing beats WWII.
And hopefully no one tries.
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
hahahaha very entertaining . but pardon me from my illiterate on music, I can only say that the Second clips are more 'Arabian' kind of music .
To add in to what I No Stupid typed above . The Mongol conquest death toll is approximately 40 millions . I personally think such event should be labelled as "World War" since more than 10 kingdoms participated in it and involved Many parts of Asia and Many Parts of Europe regardless whether it is involving America and London and Paris . 40 millions means something .
40 millions casualties is an impossible number. There aren't millions of Mogol warriors, just tens or hundreds of thousands. The conquest campaigns took years to cover the vast geographical expanse - three generation of Khans.
And there were little resistance considering the invaders were running over villages and nomadic camps! The Mongolians were good horsemen and archers and that explained their military might. Also, they were fearless and wild used to wrestling one another and going to rival camps to raid and rape. The Han Chinese were terrified by such barbaric behaviour and built the Great Wall. If you look at the length of the Great Wall, that gives you an idea where the Mongols used to roam!
40 millions would be the population of the countries conquered.
The extent of Mongol Empire (minus China) would be about the same size as Soviet Union (USSR). And history had a twist - Mongolia was a vassal state of USSR until recent time. And USSR no longer exists!
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the ancient world population in 13th century was about 360 to 400 million...and 40 million massacred is one-tenth of it....woots....
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Originally posted by icare:
Yup. The best part is that the mongols used ancient weapons like swords, arrows etc to kill 40 million people.Imagine if they started the war in the 1930s and had the same weapons like bombs, guns etc.
I think everybody in the world will be dead liao
But it was gun powder weapons which ended their age.
from the moment guns and cannons became common, nomadic people were subjucated by sedentary people.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
40 millions casualties is an impossible number. There aren't millions of Mogol warriors, just tens or hundreds of thousands. The conquest campaigns took years to cover the vast geographical expanse - three Khans.
And there were little resistance considering the invaders were running over villages and nomadic camps! The Mongolians were good horsemen and archers and that explained their military might. Also, there were fearless and wild used to wrestling one another and going to rival camps to raid and rape. The Han Chinese were terrified by such barbaric behaviour and built the Great Wall. If you look at the length of the Great Wall, that gives you an idea where the Mongols used to roam!
40 millions would be the population of the countries conquered.
The extent of Mongol Empire (minus China) would be about the same size as Soviet Union (USSR). And history had a twist - Mongolia was a vassal state of USSR until recent time. And USSR no longer exists!
actually i think for most parts of china's history, it was cheaper to build a wall rather then send an army to fight them which prompt the decision to keep a wall there. It was meant to keep raiders out rather than a real army.
Han and Tang dynasty's control extended beyond the great wall. Song dynasty only had the south china so no great wall for them.
the current wall's built in ming dynasty long after the mongols were gone.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
You are right !
Now let me give you a quiz: (do not check internet before you answer wor, hehehe)
Those dark dark Indians (i.e Abunene) in Singapore, which main group do they belong in?
To choose from Mongoloids, Caucassoids and Negroids . I would choose errmm.. Negroids ? -
Originally posted by I No Stupid:
40 millions casualties is an impossible number. There aren't millions of Mogol warriors, just tens or hundreds of thousands. The conquest campaigns took years to cover the vast geographical expanse - three Khans.
And there were little resistance considering the invaders were running over villages and nomadic camps! The Mongolians were good horsemen and archers and that explained their military might. Also, there were fearless and wild used to wrestling one another and going to rival camps to raid and rape. The Han Chinese were terrified by such barbaric behaviour and built the Great Wall. If you look at the length of the Great Wall, that gives you an idea where the Mongols used to roam!
40 millions would be the population of the countries conquered.
The extent of Mongol Empire (minus China) would be about the same size as Soviet Union (USSR). And history had a twist - Mongolia was a vassal state of USSR until recent time. And USSR no longer exists!
But I think it happened back then bro coz I stumbled upon it in wiki this is how it goes :Before Genghis Khan died, he assigned Ögedei Khan as his successor and split his empire into khanates among his sons and grandsons.[7] He died in 1227 after defeating the Western Xia. He was buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in Mongolia at an unknown location. His descendants went on to stretch the Mongol Empire across most of Eurasia by conquering and/or creating vassal states out of all of modern-day China, Korea, the Caucasus, Central Asian countries, and substantial portions of modern Eastern Europe, Russia and the Middle East. Many of these invasions resulted in the large-scale slaughter of local populations, which have given Genghis Khan and his empire a fearsome reputation in local histories.[8] Mongol campaigns may have resulted in the deaths of 40 million people."[9]
Beyond his military accomplishments, Genghis Khan also advanced the Mongol Empire in other ways. He decreed the adoption of the Uyghur script as the Mongol Empire's writing system. He also promoted religious tolerance in the Mongol Empire, and created a unified empire from the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. Present-day Mongolians regard him as the founding father of Mongolia.[10]
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
To choose from Mongoloids, Caucassoids and Negroids . I would choose errmm.. Negroids ?Caucasoid
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40 million casualties are too high considering that arrows and swords were the weapons of mass destruction then!
Also, it is not a world war in that there is basically ONE conqueror, one power against weak neighbours. How many Chinese were massacred when Kublai Khan rode into Beijing? Do you think it would more than what the Japanese did in the Rape of Nanking?
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Lol . when I first figured that out I was baffled too . but then I realized this is nothing to joke about . imagine during such war time the barbaric and savage mongol warrior is walking and sniffing your whereabouts while grunting and salivating at the same time yelling war cry hooka hooka laksa laksa durian durian .
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
Lol . when I first figured that out I was baffled too . but then I realized this is nothing to joke about . imagine during such war time the barbaric and savage mongol warrior is walking and sniffing your whereabouts while grunting and salivating at the same time yelling war cry hooka hooka laksa laksa durian durian .
I think it is a joke.
The Mongols were no more barbaric than the Chinese or Japanese. To arrow 40 million people is quite a task!
However, my modern office colleagues can do that .... they arrow everyday!
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
I think it is a joke.
The Mongols were no more barbaric than the Chinese or Japanese. To arrow 40 million people is quite a task!
However, my modern office colleagues can do that .... they arrow everyday!
Wikipedia publishes no jokes . however personally I see modern office politics as the result of mismanagement . -
Originally posted by Kosen pang:
Wikipedia publishes no jokes . however personally I see modern office politics as the result of mismanagement .Wikipedia provides information, not necessarily the truth.
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Then I would rather still believe in it than you who only deject without providing any forward analysis or standard prove .
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
Then I would rather still believe in it than you who only deject without providing any forward analysis or standard prove .
did wikipedia provide any proof? it claimed 40 million and you believed? why were you initially baffled?
how many japs died when the first atomic bomb was dropped?
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
did wikipedia provide any proof? it claimed 40 million and you believed? why were you initially baffled?
how many japs died when the first atomic bomb was dropped?
Wikipedia is a better prove than what you type . non chalant .I initially was baffled because I've heard about Gengis Khan and the mongol invasion all my life but before I stumbled upon those figures I never thot it would be that much and that effective for those nomadic horse riders .
I fail to see how the first atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki could relate to this . althou it is a very interesting topic . we can start a new one thou if you like . cheers! =D
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
Wikipedia is a better prove than what you type . non chalant .I initially was baffled because I've heard about Gengis Khan and the mongol invasion all my life but before I stumbled upon those figures I never thot it would be that much and that effective for those nomadic horse riders .
I fail to see how the first atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki could relate to this . althou it is a very interesting topic . we can start a new one thou if you like . cheers! =D
hahaha, wikipedia's stuff are contributions by readers and there were corrections... don't be so guillible as to accept everything as wholesale truth.
I've not come across this 40 million in all my reading on the Mongols and Mongolia, even the latest exhibition at Marina Bay Sands museum.
I mentioned atomic bomb for comparison between a weapon of mass destruction and arrows. Mongolia at that time, just as at today did not have a large population, so you can estimated the size of the fighting force.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
hahaha, wikipedia's stuff are contributions by readers and there were corrections... don't be so guillible as to accept everything as wholesale truth.
I've not come across this 40 million in all my reading on the Mongols and Mongolia, even the latest exhibition at Marina Bay Sands museum.
I mentioned atomic bomb for comparison between a weapon of mass destruction and arrows. Mongolia at that time, just as at today did not have a large population, so you can estimated the size of the fighting force.
The mongol invasion how many years ? it goes on from Gengis Khan period to his grandsons . it is possible .
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
The mongol invasion how many years ? it goes on from Gengis Khan period to his grandsons . it is possible .
There may be several Khan generations, each expanding the Mongol empire, not necessarily by large and long battles resulting in huge casualties. There could be walkovers, little resistance, small but decisive battles. Also, while the geographical stretch is large, the population centres ar few and far between. In other words, if you take a village in Changi, you can claim you take Singapore!
Take the Japanese invasion of Malaya - they landed somewhere in Trenggganu, sink two British ships, cycled into Singapore and the British surrendered all the colonies in SEA !!!! For that how many died fighting the Japanese?
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The mongols conqured ancient china . do you know how many troops ancient china own excluding civilians ? dont forget that ancient china was divided into a few countries . not one country in itself . and how many troops each of this countries have ?
The Qin itself own 1 million troops . excluding civilians . that is only china .
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
The mongols conqured ancient china . do you know how many troops ancient china own excluding civilians ? dont forget that ancient china was divided into a few countries . not one country in itself . and how many troops each of this countries have ?
The Qin itself own 1 million troops . excluding civilians . that is only china .
I should think that ancient China had a population bigger than Mongolia. If it had 1 million troop and still lose to a country with a small population, it is a SHAME the Chinese must admit. Didn't you know that China was divided, disunited, fighting amongst themselves silly, each wanting to be the yellow emperor?
Manchuria also had a smaller population than Han Chinese, yet it over-run them and set up the Qing dynasty. China also has a population bigger than Japan, yet it was defeated and occupied.
So, do you think Kublai Khan need a big army to engage the 'million' Chinese troop?
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
I should think that ancient China had a population bigger than Mongolia. If it had 1 million troop and still lose to a country with a small population, it is a SHAME the Chinese must admit. Didn't you know that China was divided, disunited, fighting amongst themselves silly, each wanting to be the yellow emperor?
Manchuria also had a smaller population than Han Chinese, yet it over-run them and set up the Qing dynasty. China also has a population bigger than Japan, yet it was defeated and occupied.
So, do you think Kublai Khan need a big army to engage the 'million' Chinese troop?
The mongols were fighting among themselves too . gengis khan fought and united them all first . and then march south to china .
I dont know about the comparison in troops but it is rather possible for the mongols to produce 40 millions death tolls . since it is agreed that they do not need bigger army to engage the stronger country .
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He must have had some fit soldiers to have covered those distances. Back then more soldiers died from disease than from anything else.
And 40 million: they got this figure by estimating the European/Chinese/XX population at various times. Where there was a big drop at the time of the invasions, it was linked to them.
Nobody actually counted 40 million deaths. 40 million = war dead, civilians killed, deaths from hunger and disease, slaves taken away, refugees migrating, people unborn due to hardship
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Originally posted by Kosen pang:
The mongols were fighting among themselves too . gengis khan fought and united them all first . and then march south to china .
I dont know about the comparison in troops but it is rather possible for the mongols to produce 40 millions death tolls . since it is agreed that they do not need bigger army to engage the stronger country .
The Mongol Empire lasted 3 generations till the end of the Yuan dynasty. As I said, the Mongolians were excellent horsemen and archers and even unarmed combat like wrestling. As nomadic they were used to living in small groups, independent and wandering the vast steppes and far flung wilderness where their horses would take them. Also, there were clan clashes and raids and rapes were common. It was Temujin, the son of a warlord who united the various clans and formed a formidable fighting force.
I seriously doubt the 40 million dead figure that was directly attributable to the Mongol conquests. How many died in WWII ?
I have given reasons for my doubt. You have stuck to the figure without much basis - like 'it is possible', 'it is published by wikipedia', etc.