Choosing English as working language ensured SG survival
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i rather keep the Chinese dialects, the Malay dialects, the Indian dialects, than go for economic progress and choose English.
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Many people have forgotten that English language has also been a BIG HUGE part of Singapore's history and culture.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
Many people have forgotten that English language has also been a BIG HUGE part of Singapore's history and culture.
It's still an alien language introduced here by colonialists. And has nothing to do with the native cultures of the people here. Even the peranakan's original mother tongue was baba malay but later switched to english.
In colonial Singapore, the nearest thing to a common language had been Bazaar Malay, a form of Malay with simplified grammar and a very restricted vocabulary that members of many ethnic groups used to communicate in the marketplace.
The government used English, with translators employed when necessary, as in the courts.
Among the Chinese a simplified form of Hokkien served as the language of the marketplace.
The Chinese schools, which were founded in large numbers in the early years of the twentieth century and associated with the rise of Chinese nationalism, attempted to teach in Mandarin Guoyu, the use of which on such formal occasions as weddings and Chinese national holiday celebrations came to carry some prestige.
In the terminology of sociolinguistics, Singapore's language system was multilingual and diglossiac, that is, characterized by two languages or dialects, high and low, or classical and vernacular, each used in different social contexts and carrying differential prestige.
Bazaar Malay and market Hokkien were the low languages, employed in the streets and market places, and English and Mandarin were the high languages, used in education, government offices, and public celebrations.
In addition, such native tongues as pure Malay, Teochiu, Tamil, or Punjabi were used in the home and in gatherings of members of the same speech group.
In a 1972 survey asking which language people understood, Hokkien came first, at 73 percent, followed by Malay, with 57 percent.
Malay was the most important language for intergroup communication, with almost all the Indians and 45 percent of the Chinese claiming to understand it.
http://countrystudies.us/singapore/20.htm
Lee Kuan Yew, who became prime minister of Singapore aged just 35, is the most obvious example.
He claims a Hakka heritage, although his upbringing was that of a baba: at home, he spoke English with his parents and baba Malay to his grandparents.
With the increased ambiguity of the status of the Babas, many of them
neither dared to admit they were Babas nor spoke Baba Malay in public. The
days of Baba Malay as an inter-group language of commercial value were also
gone, and Baba Malay stagnated and became confined to the domestic domain.
The once flourishing literary activities in Baba Malay came to a grinding
halt and wayang peranakan and dondang sayang were in crisis. Thus, the most
important "Malay" aspect of the previous Baba identity was indeed in
decline.
Baba Malay as a lingua franca had been on the decline from the '20s
onwards, and after Merdeka, English became the most important lingua
franca.
In addition, a gradual and incomplete switch in mother tongue from Baba
Malay to English occurred among the Singapore Babas.
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lol as if Chinese is not an alien language by ur definition. English has more links to Singapore than Chinese, Tamil, and even Malay. Just because most of the Chinese people who came here spoke Hokkien does not mean that it should have been the best 'cultural' choice.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
English has more links to Singapore than Chinese, Tamil, and even Malay.
In what way?
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This island in the sun should have English as the common language. And British English at that.This would have generated a Singaporean identity long ago.
Instead now we are no where in creating an identity. Singaporeans are the only people in the world who are generally not proficient in any language. Is that an identity?
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
.....The top economies in this world, how many use english as dominant language?...
I dunno and can't be bothered to look into history - but I dare say that the periods (and hence economic environment) in which the other top economies were developed in, were different to that of Sgp's. In turn, the 'needs' would have been different too.Given the time when Sgp was born and grew, if English wasn't selected, this place would be different me feelz.
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Originally posted by mancha:
This island in the sun should have English as the common language. And British English at that.Disagree.
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Originally posted by Loor:
Given the time when Sgp was born and grew, if English wasn't selected, this place would be different me feelz.Agree. Sense of belonging and identity would definitely be stronger if a local language was used.
As Fang Chuang Pi said:
"I said that using a certain language to create a culture, the culture created can at best be a commercial culture, or technology culture, or we may call it pasar culture.
It has no roots, and identifies itself with a certain material interest. It is the product of expediency.
"It is like duckweed, floating at the harbour. When it absorbs fertilisers, it will flourish very quickly. But once it rains and floods set in, it will perish,"http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/independence/ref/plen3.html
It has no roots, and identifies itself with a certain material interest. It is the product of expediency.
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you're probably right.
so i guess it's a matter of choice between maintaining culture, or having a thriving economy?
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Originally posted by Loor:
so i guess it's a matter of choice between maintaining culture, or having a thriving economy?
I don't see the link between economy and english.
There are many factors in building up a economy. Some countries where english is used like Philippines have a rather undeveloped economy, while others where english is not used, like Japan have a rather developed and industrialised economy.
To say that a language is the no.1 factor in determining the development of economy is a falsehood concocted by Lee Kuan Yew to serve his own narrow agendas.
This type of thinking is a creation of PAP(Lee Kuan Yew) propaganda, it is wrong and must be completely rejected.
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I like how he keeps saying "We are the only country in the region that uses English as our working language"
Come on, you know and I know that the working language in Singapore is definitely not English.
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Choosing English as working language ensured SG survival
That is garbage and racist.
I firmly reject Harry Lee Kuan Yew's rubbish anglophile propaganda.
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Originally posted by mancha:
This island in the sun should have English as the common language. And British English at that.This would have generated a Singaporean identity long ago.
Instead now we are no where in creating an identity. Singaporeans are the only people in the world who are generally not proficient in any language. Is that an identity?
It is kind of sad that this is true :(
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
In what way?
when the british first came here, the island had no humans, though it belonged to johor. So the first language spoken in modern singpaore is English.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
when the british first came here, the island was had not humans, though it belonged to johor. So the first language spoken in modern singpaore is English.
There were chinese and malays and others in Singapore before 1819. You can check this fact up in history books.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
It is kind of sad that this is true :(
That is due to the erroneous language and educational policies of the PAP.
They have ruined the linguistic capabilities of people in Singapore and made us a laughing stock to others.
I think the no.1 culprit for these failed policies is Harry Lee Kuan Yew.
If you examine the social policies of Lee Kuan Yew, almost all have failed.
Lee Kuan Yew is incompetent in social affairs.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
There were chinese and malays and others in Singapore before 1819. You can check this fact up in history books.
gosh i know that, but I am talking about modern Singapore as a state or country.
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Harry Lee Kuan Yew is a failure in social policies. He is incompetent in social affairs.
He needs to admit his errors and leave PAP immediately.
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nothing wrong to retain all the differnt cultures dialect. but english is a minimm must know language. worse some also don;t know you give them a very simple instruction and they come back and ask you for the answer to what you already wrote on the paper.
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Originally posted by troublemaker2005:
nothing wrong to retain all the differnt cultures dialect. but english is a minimm must know language. worse some also don;t know you give them a very simple instruction and they come back and ask you for the answer to what you already wrote on the paper.
A problem is that people who learn Mandarin as a 1st language have trouble learning English as a 2nd language.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
A problem is that people who learn Mandarin as a 1st language have trouble learning English as a 2nd language.
It will not be a problem if it is mandated we learn all 4 local languages from young (i.e. Malay, Tamil, Chinese, English)
Not just one or two.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
It will not be a problem if it is mandated we learn all 4 local languages from young (i.e. Malay, Tamil, Chinese, English)
Not just one or two.
siao. No one is interested in so many languages.
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Originally posted by Siliconchip:
siao. No one is interested in so many languages.
When it is mandated, you got no choice.
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bird langauge must learn. eveyrwhere people know bird language and wen u know it you can bird it out everyday anywhere with everyone, well...maybe not everyone fancy tokin bird lan though
