Originally posted by charlize:I like the part where the father said he was worried because his son was holding on to his supplementary credit card.
He obviously doesn't want a shock next time and then tears start rolling down his cheeks.
Knowing that your hard earned money is used to fund someone else's Sentosa Cove is not a good feeling you know. ![]()
Will lao bak sai very hard u know ![]()
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Oh and laurence82 deserves special mention as his knowledge of the Bible is below zero, in the negative. And that probably goes for his knowledge of Singapore Constitution too. Duh.
Dont shame yourself so much
I am still remembering the day you pwned yourself with lack of knowledge of the Constitution and still insist like a kid everyone listen what you said
lol
oh shucks stfu
We all know where this thread is headed.
Originally posted by laurence82:Dont shame yourself so much
I am still remembering the day you pwned yourself with lack of knowledge of the Constitution and still insist like a kid everyone listen what you said
lol
Except of course that hardly anyone agreed with your views back then. Professor Dr. Thio Li-Ann, who is a Singapore constitutional scholar, said that "Evangelism is legal and in fact a constitutional right" and that "It would in fact be intolerant to ban this form of speech."
Of course atheists like laurence82 are hardly the tolerant type of people.
![]()
Originally posted by ditzy:We all know where this thread is headed.
Guys , you all focus on con man Kong Hee and his partner in crime Phil Pringle of C3. Then you blame God and criticise the Bible.
In the book of Hebrews cahpter11, the Bible says "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."
We can only look to Jesus perfection and his Truth. Kong Hee & Pringle do not preach Truth. They twist the word of God and use scriptures out of context to manipulate money out of their cult followers. They are not a true church but con artists.
You can take verses and make them mean anything.eg Here are actual verses:-
Judas hanged himself.
(Verese out of context)...Go thou and od likewise.
You could even prove that the early disciples played cricket! In Acts2:14
"Jesus stood up with the eleven and was bold (bowled)."
Kong Hee takes scriptures out of context to achive his monetary goals eg. The Sentosa apartment and Sun Ho's career.
plus the guys atrract the gals and gals attract the guys....
Life is surreal. ![]()
Originally posted by motoway:
Knowing that your hard earned money is used to fund someone else's Sentosa Cove is not a good feeling you know.
Will lao bak sai very hard u know
Damn scary. ![]()
We shall see when the result comes out, but his actions shows that his guilty.
Especially the part he wants the whole CHC to supports him.
I had read a blog site, and the short story there actually shows Kong Hee's actions to be rather weird.
www.shiroiluke.wordpress.com if you wanna read more.
CHATROOM | MAK YUEN TEEN
A law to protect whistleblowers?
NUS don Mak Yuen Teen believes laws to protect whistleblowers who act in good faith and with reasonable belief should be considered. He also feels there is room to modify defamation laws. -- PHOTO: DIOS VINCOY JR FOR THE STRAITS TIMES
BY GOH CHIN LIAN
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
IN THE light of the City Harvest case, corporate governance advocate Mak Yuen Teen talks about the governance of charities.
The National University of Singapore don is a member of the Charity Council, set up under the Charities Act to promote good governance standards in the charity sector.
• Are you following the City Harvest case? Is it deja vu?
Yes and no. There are obviously parallels with certain cases in terms of a charismatic leader, questions about board independence, and a whistleblower having to apologise.
No, in the sense that the allegations about how transactions were executed and attempts to hide them are somewhat different from those in other charity cases, and are more similar to some corporate cases.
Also, the alleged amounts involved are larger. But let's be clear that they are only allegations at this stage.
• How do you feel about the way governance of charities and regulatory oversight have evolved since the National Kidney Foundation saga?
Both have improved a lot. Charity rules, guidelines and codes have been enhanced. Regulatory oversight has been enhanced as well, for example, having regulators for different sectors, sector administrators and also governance reviews of charities.
Overall, awareness of governance and implementation of good governance practices have improved. But there will always be exceptions when we are talking about around 2,000 charities in total.
• The 7th Charity Council Governance Seminar in March this year was titled Good Governance Keeps The Regulator Away. However, again, the regulator has to step in. Is the charity sector as a whole and on group level doing enough to ensure good governance?
Well, when there are governance concerns, this will bring the regulators in. That is their role. If charities do the right thing, they should never worry about regulators looking over their shoulders.
I think awareness has improved a lot, and implementation is happening, perhaps more in some sectors than others. For example, the religious sector tends to have lower compliance with the code of governance on the degree of management involvement in the governing board, including in chairing the board, because some view these as secular guidelines which do not really apply to them.
• To what extent have charities and their members internalised the values of good governance? What are the challenges?
One of the challenges in the sector is that people may volunteer to be on the board and, because it's voluntary and honorary, may not give the required commitment and be quite passive.
The selection process may also be ad hoc because it's honorary.
They may also not be willing to commit time to learn about their duties and responsibilities through attending professional development programmes.
• What about concerns that yet another high-profile case will lead to tighter regulations that affect the operations of charities?
This is a risk and I think it's best not to react to the moment and just introduce new rules.
If there is another scandal, as I am sure there will be just like in the corporate sector, there may be different issues involved.
You then end up with rules being put together like patchwork.
The Sarbanes-Oxley Act in the United States is a perfect example. The Act was written very clearly to address the problems in two major scandals - Enron and WorldCom. Guess what? Lots of other things were not addressed and we ended up with the global financial crisis starting from the US.
This is not to say that we should not consider rule changes, but we need to be considered in how we do this.
• What more would you like to see done?
Enforcement must be strong where there is proven wrongdoing.
I still believe we should consider legislation to protect whistleblowers who blow the whistle in good faith and with reasonable belief, as in some of the more developed markets.
We may wish to consider modifying our defamation laws. It's just too easy for someone who is rich or who has the backing of a wealthy organisation to sue someone, even if comments may have a reasonable basis.
There is a danger in suppressing fair comment and I think that is unhealthy for us in the long term.
And we should keep improving the quality of people who serve on boards in the sector, and continue to help charities build capacity to improve their governance.
TRENDING A look at the talk of the week; Arrest of City Harvest Church leaders
BY GOH CHIN LIAN
What it's all about
ONE of Singapore's largest churches made the news this week when its founder Kong Hee, 47, and four senior church members were arrested and charged with conspiring to cheat the church of millions of dollars.
Public prosecutors alleged that an initial $24 million was taken from the building fund of City Harvest Church and put into sham bond investments, and another $26.6 million went to covering up the money trail.
The investments were allegedly used to finance the career of Kong's wife, pop singer Ho Yeow Sun.
The severity of the case led the Commissioner to suspend eight members, including Kong and Ms Ho, as board members or agents of the church.
What's the buzz?
ALLEGATIONS that church funds were used to finance Ms Ho's career have become a talking point, drawing strong responses from many.
Members of City Harvest Church have stood by their leaders, defended them online and turned up en masse in court to show support. At least one wrote to a Cabinet minister to say that the Commissioner's statement on the church's financial irregularities was defamatory.
Detractors, however, found this show of loyalty troubling. They wondered if church members have been unduly influenced by their pastor's magnetic personality. One online article counselled against a siege mentality.
Even after the case had gone to court, the church's leaders saw it fit to issue a public statement to maintain that it did not lose any funds and no personal profit was gained by those involved in the transactions.
They also defended the church's Crossover Project, which the Commissioner had said was underwritten by at least $23 million of church funds, unknown to the church's executive members.
They insisted it was not about one person's singing career, but a mission that was fundamental to the church - to use Ms Ho's music to connect with and reach non-Christians.
This was notwithstanding the edgy music videos of Ms Ho making the rounds online, which drew fresh criticisms from many over whether the stated purpose of Christian outreach was achieved.
The case has also sparked fresh debate over the wealth accumulated by megachurches and their leaders.
Why it matters
THE amounts involved make it the biggest financial case at a registered charity since the high-profile scandals at the National Kidney Foundation (NKF) in 2005 and Ren Ci Hospital in 2007.
It eclipses the $12 million for which the NKF sued former chief executive T.T. Durai and three others, and the $50,000 unauthorised loan for which Ren Ci Hospital's chief Ming Yi was jailed.
The scandals led to a big clean-up of governance practices in the charity sector.
What's next?
KONG and the four church members are due to return to court on July 25, for varying counts of committing criminal breach of trust as an agent.
The offence is punishable with a life sentence, or jail of up to 20 years and a fine.
"____________________________
SOUNDBITE
As the matter is now before the courts, we should let the law take its course and avoid speculation or making pre-judgments that may unnecessarily stir up emotions.
- Deputy Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister Teo Chee Hean
_____________________________ "
Part D, Insight, The Straits Times, Saturday, June 30 2012, Pg D4
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Except of course that hardly anyone agreed with your views back then. Professor Dr. Thio Li-Ann, who is a Singapore constitutional scholar, said that "Evangelism is legal and in fact a constitutional right" and that "It would in fact be intolerant to ban this form of speech."Of course atheists like laurence82 are hardly the tolerant type of people.
The world is divided into xtians and atheist
no wonder people call u stupid
Thio Li-Ann is the King of Singapore? His words count?
Originally posted by Vrc5star:Guys , you all focus on con man Kong Hee and his partner in crime Phil Pringle of C3. Then you blame God and criticise the Bible.
In the book of Hebrews cahpter11, the Bible says "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."
We can only look to Jesus perfection and his Truth. Kong Hee & Pringle do not preach Truth. They twist the word of God and use scriptures out of context to manipulate money out of their cult followers. They are not a true church but con artists.
You can take verses and make them mean anything.eg Here are actual verses:-
Judas hanged himself.
(Verese out of context)...Go thou and od likewise.
You could even prove that the early disciples played cricket! In Acts2:14
"Jesus stood up with the eleven and was bold (bowled)."
Kong Hee takes scriptures out of context to achive his monetary goals eg. The Sentosa apartment and Sun Ho's career.
u have people like bro in christ who is a member of chc and even dare defile the constitution
like i mentioned earlier, they should hang these people for treason
There are two sides to the story.
One from the newspapers. The other from the defendants, who seemed cocky.
I am waiting for the trial, to see what they have to say for themselves. This would be of interest to those involved in corporate governance. How to ratify what is illegal.
Lets see if the judges can be swayed by their justifications.
But then, this is Singapore. In other countries, if the argument is good, it will hold. In Singapore no such luck, because the judge has the last word, they will acknowledge your argument, but their view will prevail according the sentiments of the government.
A lot of videos cannot be found on youtube anymore. ![]()
The court case is pending so they cannot say anything, but the newspapers can. ![]()
Originally posted by M the name:
CHATROOM | MAK YUEN TEEN
A law to protect whistleblowers?
NUS don Mak Yuen Teen believes laws to protect whistleblowers who act in good faith and with reasonable belief should be considered. He also feels there is room to modify defamation laws. -- PHOTO: DIOS VINCOY JR FOR THE STRAITS TIMES
BY GOH CHIN LIAN
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
IN THE light of the City Harvest case, corporate governance advocate Mak Yuen Teen talks about the governance of charities.
The National University of Singapore don is a member of the Charity Council, set up under the Charities Act to promote good governance standards in the charity sector.
• Are you following the City Harvest case? Is it deja vu?
Yes and no. There are obviously parallels with certain cases in terms of a charismatic leader, questions about board independence, and a whistleblower having to apologise.
No, in the sense that the allegations about how transactions were executed and attempts to hide them are somewhat different from those in other charity cases, and are more similar to some corporate cases.
Also, the alleged amounts involved are larger. But let's be clear that they are only allegations at this stage.
• How do you feel about the way governance of charities and regulatory oversight have evolved since the National Kidney Foundation saga?
Both have improved a lot. Charity rules, guidelines and codes have been enhanced. Regulatory oversight has been enhanced as well, for example, having regulators for different sectors, sector administrators and also governance reviews of charities.
Overall, awareness of governance and implementation of good governance practices have improved. But there will always be exceptions when we are talking about around 2,000 charities in total.
• The 7th Charity Council Governance Seminar in March this year was titled Good Governance Keeps The Regulator Away. However, again, the regulator has to step in. Is the charity sector as a whole and on group level doing enough to ensure good governance?
Well, when there are governance concerns, this will bring the regulators in. That is their role. If charities do the right thing, they should never worry about regulators looking over their shoulders.
I think awareness has improved a lot, and implementation is happening, perhaps more in some sectors than others. For example, the religious sector tends to have lower compliance with the code of governance on the degree of management involvement in the governing board, including in chairing the board, because some view these as secular guidelines which do not really apply to them.
• To what extent have charities and their members internalised the values of good governance? What are the challenges?
One of the challenges in the sector is that people may volunteer to be on the board and, because it's voluntary and honorary, may not give the required commitment and be quite passive.
The selection process may also be ad hoc because it's honorary.
They may also not be willing to commit time to learn about their duties and responsibilities through attending professional development programmes.
• What about concerns that yet another high-profile case will lead to tighter regulations that affect the operations of charities?
This is a risk and I think it's best not to react to the moment and just introduce new rules.
If there is another scandal, as I am sure there will be just like in the corporate sector, there may be different issues involved.
You then end up with rules being put together like patchwork.
The Sarbanes-Oxley Act in the United States is a perfect example. The Act was written very clearly to address the problems in two major scandals - Enron and WorldCom. Guess what? Lots of other things were not addressed and we ended up with the global financial crisis starting from the US.
This is not to say that we should not consider rule changes, but we need to be considered in how we do this.
• What more would you like to see done?
Enforcement must be strong where there is proven wrongdoing.
I still believe we should consider legislation to protect whistleblowers who blow the whistle in good faith and with reasonable belief, as in some of the more developed markets.
We may wish to consider modifying our defamation laws. It's just too easy for someone who is rich or who has the backing of a wealthy organisation to sue someone, even if comments may have a reasonable basis.
There is a danger in suppressing fair comment and I think that is unhealthy for us in the long term.
And we should keep improving the quality of people who serve on boards in the sector, and continue to help charities build capacity to improve their governance.
TRENDING A look at the talk of the week; Arrest of City Harvest Church leaders
BY GOH CHIN LIAN
What it's all about
ONE of Singapore's largest churches made the news this week when its founder Kong Hee, 47, and four senior church members were arrested and charged with conspiring to cheat the church of millions of dollars.
Public prosecutors alleged that an initial $24 million was taken from the building fund of City Harvest Church and put into sham bond investments, and another $26.6 million went to covering up the money trail.
The investments were allegedly used to finance the career of Kong's wife, pop singer Ho Yeow Sun.
The severity of the case led the Commissioner to suspend eight members, including Kong and Ms Ho, as board members or agents of the church.
What's the buzz?
ALLEGATIONS that church funds were used to finance MsHo's career have become a talking point, drawing strong responses from many.
Members of City Harvest Church have stood by their leaders, defended them online and turned up en masse in court to show support. At least one wrote to a Cabinet minister to say that the Commissioner's statement on the church's financial irregularities was defamatory.
Detractors, however, found this show of loyalty troubling. They wondered if church members have been unduly influenced by their pastor's magnetic personality. One online article counselled against a siege mentality.
Even after the case had gone to court, the church's leaders saw it fit to issue a public statement to maintain that it did not lose any funds and no personal profit was gained by those involved in the transactions.
They also defended the church's Crossover Project, which the Commissioner had said was underwritten by at least $23 million of church funds, unknown to the church's executive members.
They insisted it was not about one person's singing career, but a mission that was fundamental to the church - to use Ms Ho's music to connect with and reach non-Christians.
This was notwithstanding the edgy music videos of Ms Ho making the rounds online, which drew fresh criticisms from many over whether the stated purpose of Christian outreach was achieved.
The case has also sparked fresh debate over the wealth accumulated by megachurches and their leaders.
Why it matters
THE amounts involved make it the biggest financial case at a registered charity since the high-profile scandals at the National Kidney Foundation (NKF) in 2005 and Ren Ci Hospital in 2007.
It eclipses the $12 million for which the NKF sued former chief executive T.T. Durai and three others, and the $50,000 unauthorised loan for which Ren Ci Hospital's chief Ming Yi was jailed.
The scandals led to a big clean-up of governance practices in the charity sector.
What's next?
KONG and the four church members are due to return to court on July 25, for varying counts of committing criminal breach of trust as an agent.
The offence is punishable with a life sentence, or jail of up to 20 years and a fine.
"____________________________
SOUNDBITE
As the matter is now before the courts, we should let the law take its course and avoid speculation or making pre-judgments that may unnecessarily stir up emotions.
- Deputy Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister Teo Chee Hean
_____________________________ "
Part D, Insight, The Straits Times, Saturday, June 30 2012, Pg D4
you all are making him unhappy...
extract from sun ho's twit

they all still quite chill about it hor
Originally posted by QX179R:I maintain my integrity: Kong Hee
Beleaguered City Harvest Church pastor Kong Hee insisted he had integrity as he spoke to a full house at Singapore Expo Hall 1 early Saturday evening.
In the first English-language service of the church since he and four key ministry members were charged with criminal breach of trust allegedly to support the music career of his wife Sun Ho, Kong said, "I maintain my integrity."With his wife up on stage with him, he added, "There were times when Sun and I just didn't know what to do." He and his wife also hugged on stage.
The expo hall was packed with members of the congregation and two rooms overflowed with supporters for about a total of 5,000 people. There were many banners saying "I love Pastor Kong".
Some of the faithful also gave testimonies on the church's "Crossover Project" started in 2002 supposedly as a way to use Ho's secular music to connect with people and reach out to non-Christians.
One of Ho's backup dancers talked about how the pastor's wife, who tried to become a pop star in the U.S., brought Christ to her and the world through Ho's song "China Wine".
CHC has thrown its weight behind its founder Kong Hee and the four other key members who were charged Wednesday over alleged misuse of the charity’s funds.
In a statement released by executive pastor Aries Zulkarnain on Thursday evening, the church stated that it is standing by the five individuals."The people currently in the news are our pastors and trusted staff and leaders who have always put God and CHC first," he said. "As a church we stand with them and I believe fully in their integrity."
The statement also said that Kong, 47, and his deputy pastor Tan Ye Peng, 39, who both face charges of criminal breach of trust, will continue preaching at the megachurch.
Addressing the current charges that stand against the five accused leaders, Zulkarnain maintained that the church did not lose any money in the transactions detailed in the charges, which list two separate amounts of S$24 million and a further S$26.6 million.
"The S$24 million, which went into investment bonds, was returned to the church in full, with interest... The church did not lose any funds in the relevant transactions, and no personal profit was gained by the individuals concerned," he said. In response to the church’s statement, the Attorney-General’s Chambers (AGC) said, “We wish to reiterate that as criminal charges are now before the court and will be subject to adjudication by the court; and that as such, neither the prosecution nor any other party should comment on issues which will be subject to adjudication and on which evidence will be led in court.”-- Yahoo!
