City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and 4 others arrested
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Originally posted by charlize:
You are not in the sgforum's inner circle.
92,211 > 21,249 -
Originally posted by TehJarVu:
92,211 > 21,249Now that reflects how sad it is, right?
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yah lor, outside peasant come here also peasant
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Life will kick you in the gonads.
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a charade game of MLM
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Originally posted by alize:
This is itself a problem. If there is no proper recording to avoid potential fraud, it is as bad as fraud.
If there is no fraud, what is there to hide by not recording?
I think you are conflating two issues here. That donors entrust the monies to management to use it for right purposes is separate from the issue of management keeping proper records for accounting or audit purposes. -
When the management of a mega church issues a directive for offerings to be in cash only, this does not augur well for the management's integrity.
A small church may ask for cash only for administrative purposes, but a mega church should not give such reasons.
Tonnes of cash flowing in is an accounting nightmare, and a wonderful opportunity for skimming.
At the first level, the team collecting and counting of the money is there a guarantee that a few dollars are not pocketed by one or two helpers.
At the next level, are all the bundles of money in the vault accounted for accurately.
Finaly, are proper records kept of the movements of money into and out of the vault?
Being in management and not taking the proper measures to streamline opertions is a derilection of duty, and maybe criminal if its purpose is to benefit oneself.
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Originally posted by mancha:
When the management of a mega church issues a directive for offerings to be in cash only, this does not augur well for the management's integrity.
A small church may ask for cash only for administrative purposes, but a mega church should not give such reasons.
Tonnes of cash flowing in is an accounting nightmare, and a wonderful opportunity for skimming.
At the first level, the team collecting and counting of the money is there a guarantee that a few dollars are not pocketed by one or two helpers.
At the next level, are all the bundles of money in the vault accounted for accurately.
Finaly, are proper records kept of the movements of money into and out of the vault?
Being in management and not taking the proper measures to streamline opertions is a derilection of duty, and maybe criminal if its purpose is to benefit oneself.
You can work in auditing.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I think you are conflating two issues here. That donors entrust the monies to management to use it for right purposes is separate from the issue of management keeping proper records for accounting or audit purposes.
You cannot accuse me of conflating the issues beacuse this was speakoutfor's quote on the lack of records and accountability
Originally posted by speakoutfor:But one issue I don't understand is why some christians donate a good part of their wealth to the church. Its not small sum, it is like, some of them save $10,000 and then thinking of using for other means like deposit for house or that new car, then one day the pastor preaching, say there is a need for new building fund or some ministry in some desolate area - they decide to channel the money to the church. They tell me its for the extension of their kingdom in heaven.
When this money go into the pockets of the pastors, there is great great temptation for abuse of power. There is ABSOLUTELY no accountability. They don't audit their accounts at all. I got a friend (an ex gf) who works as an accountant at a big church, she tells me that there is no control on where the expenses go to. No signatory, no authorisation letter. The pastor just tell her to deposit this money or that money into this anonymous bank account or pass large swarths of cash to this certain leader of the ministry. All this goes on without the knowledge of the congregation.
Unlike the big listed corporations, they have internal audit and proper controls in place to ensure no abuse of power and money. Churches have none of this.
This Kong Hee case is a good development. At least the singaporean government have laws to protect the congregation.
In malaysia, the govt don't bother as long as its not a government bribery case. So the churches here can go anything they want with the money. Last year christmas, I was forced to attend the church by my christian boss (but I still remain truthful to buddhism), just out of respect for other religions. So during the service, I watch them pass the offering bag around. But I refuse to give a cent. Even when they say its for a good cause, money goes out to help the orphanages, the poor and the homeless. But how much of this money really goes to the underprivaledge? before it channels and end up into pockets of pastors and senior church leaders? City Harvest is a good example of abuse of money.
to which this was your reply on the issue of donors trust.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Many churches collect tithes and offerings that go towards the operating expenditure of the church. In that sense, givers normally leave it to the leaders to use the money "for God's Kingdom" and there's little to find fault with.
I think the problem with CHC is that monies earmarked for specific purposes were used for other purposes and there was no transparency. Perhaps had they initially asked for monies to be donated specifically FOR Sun Ho's music career they could used it until song (pun intended).
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Originally posted by alize:
You cannot accuse me of conflating the issues beacuse this was speakoutfor's quote on the lack of records and accountability
to which this was your reply on the issue of donors trust.
Ok noted. But I think you would agree that they are two separate issues? -
Festival of Praise concert cancelled due to CHC woes
The Festival of Praise (FOP), one of the biggest Christian concerts to be held in Singapore annually, has been cancelled this year due to the ongoing court troubles of five City Harvest Church (CHC) leaders.
The FOP, which attracts members from more than 30 churches in Singapore, brings together performers from overseas in a glitzy presentation.
Its well-attended shows are also said to be one of the most important events in the local Christian community.
But in a letter addressed to followers on its Facebook page last Friday, the event's founder and president, Canon James Wong announced the cancellation of what would have been the 26th edition of the concert.
"It is with the heaviest of hearts that the Committee announces that Festival of Praise 2012 has been cancelled," he wrote.
Wong also pointed to the implication of CHC founder Kong Hee in a court case as the reason for the festival's cancellation.
"As you might know, Rev. Kong and City Harvest Church are currently undergoing a challenging period. In view of this situation, the Committee has decided not to go ahead with this year's Festival," Wong said.
The Festival of Praise concert this year was supposed to be held at the CHC auditorium at Suntec City as its usual venue, the Singapore Indoor Stadium, is not available for rental this year.
Kong is the executive director of the FOP, as he has been for the past few years. According to Wong, besides offering its venue, CHC had also offered manpower for hospitality, ushering and security duties for the festival.
Last month, Kong and four senior CHC leaders were charged in court for allegedly misappropriating church funds amounting to $50 million. They are out on bail of $500,000 each and their passports have been impounded. They will next appear in court on 25 July.
With that in mind, Wong urged, "We ask you to keep Rev. Kong Hee and City Harvest Church in prayer — they have faithfully served and supported the Festival of Praise for many years, so let us unite and support our brothers and sisters in Christ in this time of need."
News of the festival's cancellation came as a surprise to regular attendees, with many leaving comments of "sadness" and "disappointment" on the Facebook page.
But in response to some of these comments, organisers said: "It is not just about Rev Kong. His staff and members are heavily involved in this year's FOP. For the best interest of the church members, the Committee has decided to cancel for this year."
Still, some Christians that Yahoo! Singapore spoke they were looking forward to this year's show and are shocked by the latest development.
One of them, assistant creative director Sonny Lim, 37, attended last year's show at the Indoor Stadium with his wife and was eager to go again this year.
"It was entertaining, enlightening and a great opportunity for us to get together to praise our faith, so not having the chance to go again this year is disappointing," Lim said.
Attempts by Yahoo! Singapore to reach CHC for comments were unsuccessful. -
The more we should praise God!!! For the good and the bad times of our lives!!! For the just and the unjust, God is still worthy to be praised!!! Lets keep our focus on our saviour and the redemption Jesus has brought with his sacrifice. Rejoice for the one who is suffering because of Jesus, for his treasures in the heavens would be great. Rejoice!
P.S: The above is quite satirical if I say so myself...
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all that has happened in singapore for the first half a year has been pointing to the deterioration of character leadership.
it is a grave dilemma of leadership today...de-construction is critical...
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QX the wheels just keep falling off for KH!
I am a Christian and am praying for Kong Hee...that he goes to jail for a long time!
He is a dangerous con man fleecing the flock by twisting scriptures and using a centuries old deception based on Catholic indulgences, aka "tithing". He misinterprets the word of God. He's too dangerous to not be locked up!
Friends, God does NOT want your money-He wants your heart and love. That's all!Tithing is Old Testament Law that passed away when Jesus nailed the law to the cross. He fulfilled the law and His new commandment is to Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.
Unfortunately, KOng Hee just loves himself and Sun Ho's music career.
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
all that has happened in singapore for the first half a year has been pointing to the deterioration of character leadership.
it is a grave dilemma of leadership today...de-construction is critical...
Nothing new, no response.
A new approach is needed.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Ok noted. But I think you would agree that they are two separate issues?Donor's trust is not an excuse or licence to not keep records. Proper systems are the due fulfilment of trust even if no money is stolen.
If a church does not practice record keeping, only a fool should give his trust.
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Heaven is a place on earth.
Belinda carlisle.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Heaven is a place on earth.
Belinda carlisle.
how about Hell? -
old problem which never resolves itself .... still a new old problem...lolx
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dig ah dig~~~
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Originally posted by Mr Milo:
how about Hell?Hell is also on earth. Look at the starving africans. Hospital is also hell on earth.
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Next Wednesday we will hear more la.
Will it be just hearing, or verdict? If not verdict, then when we will hear the verdict?
Who going to attend the court hearing?
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
Next Wednesday we will hear more la.
Will it be just hearing, or verdict? If not verdict, then when we will hear the verdict?
Who going to attend the court hearing?
you go hearing then give us an update? -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
you go hearing then give us an update?I have an impt meeting to attend. When the agenda came out, I saw the date, I knew the date looked familiar. sekali it's the date that the five CHC members return to court. sigh. I wonder if there will be a big crowd though. It's not very big in the courtroom. only a few rows of benches nia. many will have to stand outside and wait. I bet many seats will be choop by reporters at an early hour, followed by the followers.