SG: 10.30pm Club Chapter II in a dot

• BanguIzai

  1 Dec 11, 20:22

  Originally posted by cassie:

  
  sebab hujung minggu ini, saya akan pergi melancong...tapi lokasi adalah rahsia buat masa ini

  
  Selamat Malam kepada Putri

  Lu mo pi lanchong pada ujong minggu ni bila tempu lu maseh saket pulak lah ("still nursing flu-like symptoms")?  Ya, lu biah lah kasi tumpat kat mana simpan rusia baru orang tak ikot lu pi.  Kitorang tak tau ada orang terbok krawang kat sini leh.

• cassie

  1 Dec 11, 20:26

  no choice...tix booked. hopefully the congestion clears up by tomorrow

• winsomeea

  1 Dec 11, 21:08

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Selamat Malam kepada Pengawal pulak.

  There are many Taiwanese Hokkien peculiar only to them.   When I compiled the list, then I shall post here.

  Ya, true.  They have their own made up words not only in hokkien but in Mandarin.    

  It is ok, some of the words are kind of interesting, adds colour to their lifestyle, I guess!   Hahahha   

• cassie

  1 Dec 11, 21:18

  i probably won't be understand it...even the johor hokkien is so different from penang hokkien and so different from sg hokkien

• winsomeea

  1 Dec 11, 21:26

  Originally posted by cassie:

  i probably won't be understand it...even the johor hokkien is so different from penang hokkien and so different from sg hokkien

  I do not have the chance to hear them speak Johore Hokkien.   The Penang hokkien is a type of Hokkien in China, Bangu did mention before.   Khaw boon wan who is from penang speaks it,  I just don't know how to tell about the accent, very different.

   

• Clivebenss

  1 Dec 11, 22:54

  gd evening.

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:06

  Originally posted by cassie:

  no choice...tix booked. hopefully the congestion clears up by tomorrow

  Selamat Tengamalam kepada Putri pulak.

  Kalu lu mia idong maseh penoh-sesak lendir lu boleh chobak minom teh bunga kekwa.

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:18

  Originally posted by winsomeea:

  Ya, true.  They have their own made up words not only in hokkien but in Mandarin.    

  It is ok, some of the words are kind of interesting, adds colour to their lifestyle, I guess!   Hahahha   

  According to the Hokkien linguist 周長楫 (pg 29 of "臺�閩�方言概述"), not all Taiwanese Hokkien are made-up words.

  Quote:

  下�是《臺�閩�語辭典》所收的臺�閩�方言特有的詞語。應該指出的是，在這些特殊詞語中，有些是臺�閩�話產生的新詞，有些本來是來自�建閩�話，但今天在�建閩�話�已經少用或�用，而在臺�閩�話�還經常使用。

  Means they originally came from China Fujian Hokkien words,  turns out that the motherland lost it,  and those ancestor who sailed across to Taiwan have helped to preserve some of those lost vocab.

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:27

  Originally posted by winsomeea:

  Ya, true.  They have their own made up words not only in hokkien but in Mandarin.    

  It is ok, some of the words are kind of interesting, adds colour to their lifestyle, I guess!   Hahahha   

  Another source (pg 142 臺ç�£ç‰¹æœ‰é–©å�—方言詞語舉例) that not all Taiwanese Hokkien are made-up words.

  Quote:

  臺�閩�話中有一些跟�建閩�話��的詞語。這些詞語，有的是早期�行於�建閩�地�，而�在在閩�地�已經消失了或很少有人使用了，�由早期�建閩�地�移民帶到臺�後，一直�留在臺�閩�方言�。也有些是臺�人民在長期生活中創造的。

   

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:36

  Originally posted by cassie:

  i probably won't be understand it...even the johor hokkien is so different from penang hokkien and so different from sg hokkien

  Johor Hokkien = Singapore Hokkien

  Penang Hokkien ≠ Singapore Hokkien

  Penang Hokkien = Medan Hokkien

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:49

  Originally posted by winsomeea:

  I do not have the chance to hear them speak Johore Hokkien.   The Penang hokkien is a type of Hokkien in China, Bangu did mention before.   Khaw boon wan who is from penang speaks it,  I just don't know how to tell about the accent, very different.

   

  Selamat Tengamalam kepada Pengawal of Kampong Sgliad pulak.

  Your memory so good ar, still remember, I think Penghulu and I mentioned got many times before:

  Links from memory lane:

        Hasene the Pengawal >

        (you had mentioned Khaw Boon Wan in the past too)

        http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=6#post_9808816

        http://sgforums.com/forums/2297/topics/355579?page=13#post_9952088

        http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=5#post_9808812

        http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=6#post_9809343

  Additional Penang Hokkien thread:

        http://sgforums.com/forums/1853/topics/370013

   

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 00:52

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  gd evening.

  Selamat Tengamalam kepada Penghulu Kampong Sgliad.

• Clivebenss

  2 Dec 11, 07:10

  gd morning.

• Clivebenss

  2 Dec 11, 07:15

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Another source (pg 142 臺ç�£ç‰¹æœ‰é–©å�—方言詞語舉例) that not all Taiwanese Hokkien are made-up words.

  Quote:

   

  I still prefer our own local (Amoy) Hokkien than Penang (Chiangchew) or Taiwan (ChiaoAn) Hokkien.

  

• cassie

  2 Dec 11, 09:38

  morning everyone

• Clivebenss

  2 Dec 11, 10:00

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Johor Hokkien = Singapore Hokkien

  Penang Hokkien ≠ Singapore Hokkien

  Penang Hokkien = Medan Hokkien

  Johor Hokkien is Eng Choon.

• Clivebenss

  2 Dec 11, 18:09

  gd evening.

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 21:25

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  I still prefer our own local (Amoy) Hokkien than Penang (Chiangchew) or Taiwan (ChiaoAn) Hokkien.

  

  Me too. Our local Hokkien is only roughly 100% Amoy in Vocabulary (exclude assimilated Teochew usage and Malay vocab) but not 100% Amoy in Pronunciation, it is more of a 70% Amoy : 25% Chuanchew : 5% Chiangchew mix in Pronunciation.

  Amoy, Chuanchew, & Chiangchew variety includes the below prefectures:

          http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=6#post_9809311

        Re-quote:

  Amoy Variety:  å»ˆé–€ï¼Œå�Œå®‰

  ChiangChew Variety:  æ¼³å·žï¼Œé¾�海，é¾�巖，長泰，è�¯å®‰ï¼Œå�—é�–，平和，漳浦，雲霄，æ�±å±±

  ChuanChew Variety: æ³‰å·žï¼Œæ™‰æ±Ÿï¼ŒçŸ³ç�…，å�—安，安溪，惠安，永春，德化，金門

  ChiaoAn Variety: è©”安

   

          As seen above, ChiaoAn is separated from the rest of the clustered varieties (Amoy, ChiangChew, ChuanChew) and classified as a standalone variety. Why? Because ChiaoAn is the most distinctive Hokkien dialect among all the accepted Hokkien varieties. It is the most Teochewized Hokkien dialect.

          Taiwan is not ChiaoAn and cannot be ChiaoAn (even hardly can be considered to be a variation of ChiaoAn), because:

  • To be classified as the ChiaoAn variety, it has to possess the most distinctive [ É”u ] diphthong. No other Hokkien dialect in Fujian, Taiwan or Overseas cluster has this special diphthong except the ChiaoAn variety. This distinctive [ É”u ] dipthong is what makes ChiaoAn sound like Teochew, which is also its closest neighbour.   Example: Taiwanese 布 pÉ” (commonly written as "por"),  ChiaoAn 布 pÉ”u.  //  Taiwanese 姑 kÉ” (commonly written as "kor"),  ChiaoAn 姑 kÉ”u.  //  Taiwanese çƒ� É” (commonly written as "or"),  ChiaoAn çƒ� É”u,    etc.
  • Another special trait of ChiaoAn shared together only with the Teochew dialect is its distinctive [ ɯ ] vowel.  The whole of Chiangchew cluster does not have this vowel, and the whole of Chuanchew cluster except ChinKang has this cluster. The ChiaoAn [ ɯ ] vowel is congruent with the adjacent Teochew dialect rather than the non-adjacent Chuanchew cluster.  eg. ChiaoAn/Chuanchew ç…® tsɯ (commonly written as "zir"),  Taiwanese ç…® tsu (commonly written as "zu")  //  ChiaoAn/Chuanchew 語 gɯ (commonly written as "gir"),  Taiwanese 語 gi  //  ChiaoAn/Chuanchew 豬 tɯ (commonly written as "ter"),  Taiwanese 豬 ti
  • Other traits of ChiaoAn shared together with some of the Chiangchew cluster is not found in Taiwanese Hokkien too, eg. ChiaoAn/Chiangchew 家 kæ (commonly written as "kae / kair"),  Taiwanese 家 ke (commonly written as "kay")  //  ChiaoAn/Chiangchew 白 pæÊ” (commonly written as "paeh"),  Taiwanese 白 peÊ” (commonly written as "peh")  //  ChiaoAn/Chiangchew 茶 tæ (commonly written as "tae / tair"),  Taiwanese 茶 te (commonly written as "teh / tay")

• BanguIzai

  2 Dec 11, 21:29

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  Johor Hokkien is Eng Choon.

  Johor Hokkien is everything from the Chuanchew variety (as shown above, i.e. includes Ankhway, Chinkang, LamWah  etc.),   not only Eng Choon ba.    Cos Johor Hokkien people told me they came from all these variety of places, I heard from those from TangWa, Quemoy too.   Why u mention only Eng Choon?

• Clivebenss

  2 Dec 11, 23:21

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Johor Hokkien is everything from the Chuanchew variety (as shown above, i.e. includes Ankhway, Chinkang, LamWah  etc.),   not only Eng Choon ba.    Cos Johor Hokkien people told me they came from all these variety of places, I heard from those from TangWa, Quemoy too.   Why u mention only Eng Choon?

  Most of the Hokkien people from Southern Malaya, Johor, Pahang, Negri S speak the Eng Choon Hokkien lor.

  Singapore sua theng lang speaks Ankway lor.

  

   

• Clivebenss

  3 Dec 11, 05:27

  gd morning.

• cassie

  3 Dec 11, 10:36

  morning everyone. think i'm due for a mid morning snack aka second brekkie soon. getting hungry.

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 13:58

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  Most of the Hokkien people from Southern Malaya, Johor, Pahang, Negri S speak the Eng Choon Hokkien lor.

  Singapore sua theng lang speaks Ankway lor.

  

   

  
  Selamat Petang kepada Penghulu.

  I understand you what you mean.   It is like now Singaporean Hokkiens of whatever descent speaks common Singaporean Hokkien of Amoy cluster with only sprinkling of traces of original dialectal variation.    That means, Southern Malaya Hokkiens of whatever descent now speaks common Southern Malaysian Hokkien of Eng Choon variety of the Chuanchew cluster,  I take it to mean that.

  I myself was just commented by someone (about 15 minutes ago) that I do not speak Quemoy Hokkien.   She said I speak Hokkien like everyone else (Amoy-type).   I acknowledge that.   My Quemoy influences are minimal.  I elaborate another time.

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 14:00

  Originally posted by cassie:

  morning everyone. think i'm due for a mid morning snack aka second brekkie soon. getting hungry.

  
  Selamat Petang kepada Putri.  Lu blom pi lanchong?  Ato lu sua kat negriluah?

• Clivebenss

  3 Dec 11, 14:54

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  
  Selamat Petang kepada Penghulu.

  I understand you what you mean.   It is like now Singaporean Hokkiens of whatever descent speaks common Singaporean Hokkien of Amoy cluster with only sprinkling of traces of original dialectal variation.    That means, Southern Malaya Hokkiens of whatever descent now speaks common Southern Malaysian Hokkien of Eng Choon variety of the Chuanchew cluster,  I take it to mean that.

  I myself was just commented by someone (about 15 minutes ago) that I do not speak Quemoy Hokkien.   She said I speak Hokkien like everyone else (Amoy-type).   I acknowledge that.   My Quemoy influences are minimal.  I elaborate another time.

  Selamat petang, Guru Bangul.

  You get what I mean. Basically most of the southern states (from southern Perak and Trengganu down) speaks the Eng Choon variety with the Quemoy cluster in Kelang area. Even that the Quemoy in Kelang is high infused with Eng Choon. The Northern state of Kelantan, Kedah, Penang still strongly retain their Chiangchew.

  Now even the so call Angkway is fading away as there is no longer a sua teng in Sg. Amoy is the predominant one now (although it is dying from national Mandarin campaign). The Amoy dialect is near extinction in PRC and Taiwan. After another generation in Sg, by then the Amoy dialect it will be history. May be if it can survive, likely in Manila or Cebu if ever.

  Ok another word huai lang li lor tik is Amoy equivalent to huai ka li ke in Quemoy.