SG: 10.30pm Club Chapter II in a dot

• Mr Milo

  3 Dec 11, 16:21

   

  this has become a language learning thread

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 21:34

  Selamat Malam kepada Para Penduduk of rumatangga of kampong.

  To Penghulu & Pengawal,  please take note of this, maybe you all can attend:

  ==============================================================

  讲座：讲�完的精彩闽�语 (Seminar: Endless talk on interesting Hokkien)

  Sunday, December 25, 2011

  2:00pm -- 4:00pm
  新加å�¡å�Œå®‰ä¼šé¦† (Singapore Tung Ann District Guild), 141 Cecil Street #09-00/03 Tung Ann Association Building

  身为�安人，你会说�安��？�安�是闽��的一�，语音上和厦门�略有差异。闽�语历�悠久，很多闽��和中文�字是相通的。譬如，闽��中的读册，�我们所说的读书。而�代刻在竹片上的书为册。学闽��，有助年轻一代学习�文�语。
  
  身为会馆会员。余先生希望通过趣味教学法，激�会员和�女对学习闽��的兴趣。他也将点出闽��和�文的共通处，借此加强年轻人学习�文的兴趣，�高�文水平。余先生也是资深新闻工作者。
  
  主办：新加��安会馆
  主题：大家�讲闽�语
  主讲：余�� 先生（�安会馆文教股副股长）
  日期：2011年12月25日 星期日
  时间：下�2时至4时
  地点：�安会馆礼堂
  费用：�费（欢迎对闽��有兴趣的会员�乡亲，�论年龄）
  电�：6222 8182；6220 2840
  传真：6227 1787
  电邮：[email protected]
  
  �纲：
  
  1　幼秀闽�语
  2　�音闽�语
  3　闽�语的�语和谚语
  4　闽�语的�音形容�
  5　本地色彩的闽�语
  6　咱们的家乡�
  
  Do you originate from Tong An? Can you speak the Tong An dialect? Tong An dialect is a Hokkien dialect and is slightly different from Amoy Hokkien.
  
  The speaker Mr. Yu is giving a talk on Hokkien dialect. If you can join, please turn up. Attending the Seminar is free of charge.

• Clivebenss

  3 Dec 11, 21:58

  

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 22:02

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  Selamat petang, Guru Bangul.

  You get what I mean. Basically most of the southern states (from southern Perak and Trengganu down) speaks the Eng Choon variety with the Quemoy cluster in Kelang area. Even that the Quemoy in Kelang is high infused with Eng Choon. The Northern state of Kelantan, Kedah, Penang still strongly retain their Chiangchew.

  Now even the so call Angkway is fading away as there is no longer a sua teng in Sg. Amoy is the predominant one now (although it is dying from national Mandarin campaign). The Amoy dialect is near extinction in PRC and Taiwan. After another generation in Sg, by then the Amoy dialect it will be history. May be if it can survive, likely in Manila or Cebu if ever.

  Ok another word huai lang li lor tik is Amoy equivalent to huai ka li ke in Quemoy.

  

  Philippine Hokkien sounds like Amoy variety to my friends with untrained ears but it is in fact a ChinKang variety Hokkien, not Amoy.

  4 important points to note it differs from Amoy but corresponds to ChinKang variety:

  • Philippine Hokkien coalesce the 陰去 tone (of Amoy Hokkien) and the 陽去 tone (of Amoy Hokkien) to become 1 combined 去è�² tone which is a falling-middle-tone-contour.
  • Philippine Hokkien has an additional 陽上 tone which Amoy Hokkien does not have.   
  • Philippine Hokkien inverts the tonal height of é™°å…¥ & 陽入 exactly opposite to that of Amoy Hokkien.  Furthermore Philippine Hokkien 陽入 is a rising-middle-tone-contour but Amoy Hokkien é™°å…¥ is a falling-low-tone-contour.
  • Philippine Hokkien has all the 7 tone-contours matching ChinKang Hokkien whereas only 1 out of the 7 tone-contours matching Amoy Hokkien (i.e. the 陽平 tone only)

     The above 4 points are all found in ChinKang and absent in Amoy.

  See the post http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=6#post_9809343 for the elaboration of Philippine Hokkien by me.  (the "陽上" tone which was mentioned "not tested by me" has been tested by me already)

• Clivebenss

  3 Dec 11, 22:05

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Philippine Hokkien sounds like Amoy variety to my friends with untrained ears but it is in fact a ChinKang variety Hokkien, not Amoy.

  4 important points to note it differs from Amoy but corresponds to ChinKang variety:

  • Philippine Hokkien coalesce the 陰去 tone (of Amoy Hokkien) and the 陽去 tone (of Amoy Hokkien) to become 1 combined 去è�² tone which is a falling-middle-tone-contour.
  • Philippine Hokkien has an additional 陽上 tone which Amoy Hokkien does not have.   
  • Philippine Hokkien inverts the tonal height of é™°å…¥ & 陽入 exactly opposite to that of Amoy Hokkien.  Furthermore Philippine Hokkien 陽入 is a rising-middle-tone-contour but Amoy Hokkien é™°å…¥ is a falling-low-tone-contour.
  • Philippine Hokkien has all the 7 tone-contours matching ChinKang Hokkien whereas only 1 out of the 7 tone-contours matching Amoy Hokkien (i.e. the 陽平 tone only)

     The above 4 points are all found in ChinKang and absent in Amoy.

  See the post http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/399974?page=6#post_9809343 for the elaboration of Philippine Hokkien by me.  (the "陽上" tone which was mentioned "not tested by me" has been tested by me already)

  Not all Chingkang. There are a large numbers of Amoy decendants in Cebu and Manila, not in the provinces.

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 22:09

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  Not all Chingkang. There are a large numbers of Amoy decendants in Cebu and Manila, not in the provinces.

  My Philippine friend informed me the whole of Philippines from north to south speak the same variety as him. He told me this even the evangelist in the past all speak this variety only as the medium to propagate Catholicism.  He told me from north to south, his variety is the most commonly heard.  Our Amoy variety was foreign to him.  I think there are much fewer Amoy variety in Philippines and whatever Amoy descendants are now speaking ChinKang variety as the lingua franca.

   

  added:

  I remembered he mentioned the relatives who recently came from Amoy and married into the Philippine families soon started speaking the Philippine (ChinKang-based) variety many years later.

• Clivebenss

  3 Dec 11, 22:09

  better sleep.

   

• BanguIzai

  3 Dec 11, 22:13

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  better sleep.

   

  Lu penat?

• Bus&Soccer l0v3r (VO3x 1)

  3 Dec 11, 23:41

  gd night

• BanguIzai

  5 Dec 11, 00:42

  Selamat Tengamalam kepada sumak Para Penduduk.   Sumak Para Penduduk tampak sua lenyap.

• winsomeea

  5 Dec 11, 01:00

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Selamat Malam kepada Para Penduduk of rumatangga of kampong.

  To Penghulu & Pengawal,  please take note of this, maybe you all can attend:

  ==============================================================

  讲座：讲�完的精彩闽�语 (Seminar: Endless talk on interesting Hokkien)

  Sunday, December 25, 2011

  2:00pm -- 4:00pm
  新加å�¡å�Œå®‰ä¼šé¦† (Singapore Tung Ann District Guild), 141 Cecil Street #09-00/03 Tung Ann Association Building

  身为�安人，你会说�安��？�安�是闽��的一�，语音上和厦门�略有差异。闽�语历�悠久，很多闽��和中文�字是相通的。譬如，闽��中的读册，�我们所说的读书。而�代刻在竹片上的书为册。学闽��，有助年轻一代学习�文�语。
  
  身为会馆会员。余先生希望通过趣味教学法，激�会员和�女对学习闽��的兴趣。他也将点出闽��和�文的共通处，借此加强年轻人学习�文的兴趣，�高�文水平。余先生也是资深新闻工作者。
  
  主办：新加��安会馆
  主题：大家�讲闽�语
  主讲：余�� 先生（�安会馆文教股副股长）
  日期：2011年12月25日 星期日
  时间：下�2时至4时
  地点：�安会馆礼堂
  费用：�费（欢迎对闽��有兴趣的会员�乡亲，�论年龄）
  电�：6222 8182；6220 2840
  传真：6227 1787
  电邮：[email protected]
  
  �纲：
  
  1　幼秀闽�语
  2　�音闽�语
  3　闽�语的�语和谚语
  4　闽�语的�音形容�
  5　本地色彩的闽�语
  6　咱们的家乡�
  
  Do you originate from Tong An? Can you speak the Tong An dialect? Tong An dialect is a Hokkien dialect and is slightly different from Amoy Hokkien.
  
  The speaker Mr. Yu is giving a talk on Hokkien dialect. If you can join, please turn up. Attending the Seminar is free of charge.

  Thanks for the info.    Will go if I can make it.

  Are you going, Guru Bangul?

• BanguIzai

  5 Dec 11, 01:03

  Originally posted by winsomeea:

  Thanks for the info.    Will go if I can make it.

  Are you going, Guru Bangul?

  Maybe.

• cassie

  5 Dec 11, 21:17

  Hey there guys! Hope everyone had a good weekend? I did!

• winsomeea

  5 Dec 11, 21:20

  Originally posted by cassie:

  Hey there guys! Hope everyone had a good weekend? I did!

  
  yes.

  have you had your dinner?

• cassie

  5 Dec 11, 21:21

  Yup, putting up feet now. Tired, tired, tired

• Mr Milo

  5 Dec 11, 21:41

   

  *A lizard creeps closer to cassie

• cassie

  6 Dec 11, 08:48

  should put out gecko alert first!!!

• Bus&Soccer l0v3r (VO3x 1)

  6 Dec 11, 09:30

  morning
  
  
  

• Clivebenss

  6 Dec 11, 14:16

  gd afternoon.

• cassie

  6 Dec 11, 20:51

  prepping din

• Mr Milo

  6 Dec 11, 21:12

   

  *Lizard climbs on top of the table

• BanguIzai

  7 Dec 11, 02:10

  Originally posted by Mr Milo:

   

  this has become a language learning thread

  Originally posted by Mr Milo:

  this has become a language learning thread

  Selamat Tengamalam kepada Pendekar Milo pulak. Selamat to all the Para Penduduk also.

  Pendekar Milo have anything to share about languages?  If have, do share here so we can learn from you too. Any discussion will do.

   

  I suddenly want to share something which I thought of today in this post.

  Ok, its on Malay linguistics. 

  Topic:  The confusion of the Ba(ha)gi family

        As previously mentioned in another post (discussion between Penghulu Clivebe, Putri Cassi & Penduduk Ban) in this thread before, the loss of the h consonant occurs very pervasively in the initial, medial, and final positions of a word. Examples: baharu →baru,  dahulu → daulu → dolu → dulu etc.

        In the Standard Malay language, bahagi means "to divide; to allot; to share out; to split up", and its morphological derivative [the imbuhan -an] bahagian means "a part; a section; a portion; a division". In casual, informal or fast speech, bahagi is frequently realized as bagi and bahagian is frequently realized as bagian. Unfortunately, in the Standard Malay language, bagi means "for; as" which is unrelated to the real bahagi. Also, in the Standard Malay language, there is a bahagia which means "happy; lucky; fortunate" and its morphological derivative [the imbuhan -an] (ke)bahagiaan which means "happiness; bliss; contentment". In casual, informal or fast speech, bahagia is frequently realized as bagia and (ke)bahagiaan is frequently realized as bagian. Now, it means the original bagi has coalesced with the bagi (from bahagi) and the bagian (from bahagian) and bagian (from bahagiaan) has coalesced in fast speech too.

        Adding to the confusion, the Baba and Pasar Malay dialect that is frequently used by all communities as the lingua franca of the Southeast Asia Malay-speaking region, uses the form bagik (parallel to Standard Malay bahagi) to mean "to divide; to allot; to share out; to split up". Sometimes Pasar Malay also use bagi-bagi instead of bagik to mean "to divide; to allot; to share out; to split up". The Baba and Pasar Malay dialect uses the form bagi (parallel to Standard Malay bagai) to mean "like; as if; similar to". Bagia and bagian (parallel to Standard Malay bahagia and (ke)bahagiaan) are used in Baba and Pasar Malay dialect to mean the same as in Standard Malay.

        Therefore, one has to depend closely to the context to make out whether a person is trying to use bagi to mean "to divide; to allot; to share out; to split up" or to mean "for; as" or to mean "like; as if; similar to" according to a person's usual manners of speech, the speed of the conversation and the depth of the colloquiality and choice of dialect will all affect the meaning of bagi and it's related/unrelated forms bagian.

• BanguIzai

  7 Dec 11, 02:15

  Originally posted by cassie:

  prepping din

  *Lizard drops into dinner.

  *Chichak jatokan kedalam makan malam.

• Clivebenss

  7 Dec 11, 05:04

  gd morning.

  awas cicak berenang bubur panas.

   

• Clivebenss

  7 Dec 11, 14:44

  gd afternoon.