19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.
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And by the way, there are 4 kinds of contributions.
1. tithes. (% of earnings. you may pay by GIRO)
2. offerings ("give what you feel is needed")
3. Arise and Build (for the new church building)
4. charity
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Originally posted by alize:
This is the part where kong hee says to hold your sealed offering envelope in the air and pray.
Somewhere before the next service, the cell group leaders collect the receipts (which are not sealed in an envelope). The member who invited me proudly told me "our church believes in transparency". At the next service, the cell group leaders will distribute your receipts to you.Guess what happens if you don't give enough.
Kong Hee will tell you.................
''heaven hath no place for stingy bastards ...............or bitches''
BTW, this mudderfarker is a HongKee or what
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
Who said CHC people must give till they drop? Nobody in CHC for sure.
We give freely from the heart. Nobody is forcing us to give. Does it look like anybody does not want to give? Do you see any guns forcing us to pay?
And Pasto John Avanzini blessing the offerings for the 100-fold return.
Neither am I talking about coercion to give, so you are beating a strawman argument here.
But one can indoctrinate you to willingly part with your money which should have been used on family needs.
The way you put it is that all fault lies with the giver and never with the person from the pulpit. It's dangerous if you make the leader immune from Biblical scrutiny and criticism.
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so we cannot accept a pope but we can accept a donkey?
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BroInChrist, I have no idea what you are talking about?
Of course I am responsible for giving myself, not Pastor Kong.
Of course Pastor Kong must collect money for the ministry of the church. God called him to do this.We are old enuf to decide where to spend money.
There is NO indoctrination in CHC!!! Pastor Kong does not need to play any mind games.
You start to sound like James.God bless!
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BroInChrist, I have no idea what you are talking about?
Of course I am responsible for giving myself, not Pastor Kong.
Of course Pastor Kong must collect money for the ministry of the church. God called him to do this.We are old enuf to decide where to spend money.
There is NO indoctrination in CHC!!! Pastor Kong does not need to play any mind games.
You start to sound like James.God bless!
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
BroInChrist, I have no idea what you are talking about?
Of course I am responsible for giving myself, not Pastor Kong.
Of course Pastor Kong must collect money for the ministry of the church. God called him to do this.We are old enuf to decide where to spend money.
There is NO indoctrination in CHC!!! Pastor Kong does not need to play any mind games.
You start to sound like James.God bless!
God asked ppl to collect money for him? oh man.. i feel so sad for god...
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yeah Kong Hee, Sun Ho and CHC for the win
god, pls stands one side unless you are with us!
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Originally posted by laurence82:
yeah Kong Hee, Sun Ho and CHC for the win
god, pls stands one side unless you are with us!
LOL... no la... is just that god's name has ben misused -
Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
BroInChrist, I have no idea what you are talking about?
Of course I am responsible for giving myself, not Pastor Kong.
Of course Pastor Kong must collect money for the ministry of the church. God called him to do this.We are old enuf to decide where to spend money.
There is NO indoctrination in CHC!!! Pastor Kong does not need to play any mind games.
You start to sound like James.God bless!
You claimed that there is no indoctrination, this would be incorrect. Indoctrination always takes place, the issue is what kind of indoctrination and whether it is within Biblical bounds. And I think what most people would want to know (including James) is exactly what CHC teaches, and coming from CHC folks themselves. Specifically, what does CHC teaches with regards to health and wealth? Why did James' friend behave or think the way he did? Who did he listen to?
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
LOL... no la... is just that god's name has ben misusedyeah thats what i mean
haha
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BroInChrist, do you believe that being poor, ill or disabled is equals blessing in the eyes of the Lord? Pastor Kong is teaching us the responsibility of tithing and giving cheerfully. We do live a happier life thanks to God's living word. We are taught that God does not encourage us to trust Him, only to deny us good health and wealth. We believe that God does not enjoy people being broke. We believe there is nothing wrong with being healthy and wealthy. Did you ever hear Jesus say that it is not His Will to heal? I find lots of references in the Bible with people receiving wealth and health. I guess it depends how you look at things.
I have no idea why James friend is acting the way he is. When a church grows as big as City Harvest Church, you occassionally get people who act irresponsible. Generalizing this is wrong.
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alot of xmm~
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Zeeleewong, I am not surprised that you feel your world is fine, and instead "others" are in need of assistance.
Everybody has the right to believe anything they choose - just ensure that no deception was used. BroInChrist is right when he says indoctrination always takes place. If indoctrination without consent is used to convert someone to the CHC beliefs, whatever this may be, than the rights of the person involved have been abused.
Similar to my friend, you seem to have lost the ability to critically assess the information given to you by CHC. In my view, failure to assess information because they contradict your belief system, is a sign of effective mind control.
If you have been in CHC for more than 1 year, I am sure that you will have noticed that the CHC teachings are flawed. Not everybody receives a 100-fold right? If Kong Hee is correct, everybody in CHC would be healty and rich beyond belief. You know that this is not the case. You can witness yourself that the only one getting rich is Kong Hee himself.
What I fail to grasp is why you, as well as my dear friend, despite obvious failing of the prosperity teachings continue to defend CHC, and continue to idolize its leader. In todays time and age, I find this very scary.
Having said all of the above, dear Zeeleewong, I applaud you for reading critical information against CHC and posting replies in this blog. Could this be a sign that not all is lost for you? If more CHC members would be open for critical and open feedback, we might get a serious dialogue going. Any chance of you convincing your CHC friends to join in?
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
BroInChrist, I have no idea what you are talking about?
Of course I am responsible for giving myself, not Pastor Kong.
Of course Pastor Kong must collect money for the ministry of the church. God called him to do this.We are old enuf to decide where to spend money.
There is NO indoctrination in CHC!!! Pastor Kong does not need to play any mind games.
You start to sound like James.God bless!
Yeah, a bunch of secondary school kids is old enough.
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Originally posted by alize:
This is the part where kong hee says to hold your sealed offering envelope in the air and pray.
Somewhere before the next service, the cell group leaders collect the receipts (which are not sealed in an envelope). The member who invited me proudly told me "our church believes in transparency". At the next service, the cell group leaders will distribute your receipts to you.Guess what happens if you don't give enough.
Originally posted by alize:And by the way, there are 4 kinds of contributions.
1. tithes. (% of earnings. you may pay by GIRO)
2. offerings ("give what you feel is needed")
3. Arise and Build (for the new church building)
4. charity
I see Zeeleewong is unable to mount any refutation of my posts. These are my first hand experiences at CHC.
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James, regarding your above post, I read an article on US megachurches that should be of interest to you.
The article said that members do not mind, and are even happy, if their leaders become rich beyond belief or if their church spends a lot. They are happy if the wealth results in new members being attracted to the church. A simple search should give you the article.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
BroInChrist, do you believe that being poor, ill or disabled is equals blessing in the eyes of the Lord? Pastor Kong is teaching us the responsibility of tithing and giving cheerfully. We do live a happier life thanks to God's living word. We are taught that God does not encourage us to trust Him, only to deny us good health and wealth. We believe that God does not enjoy people being broke. We believe there is nothing wrong with being healthy and wealthy. Did you ever hear Jesus say that it is not His Will to heal? I find lots of references in the Bible with people receiving wealth and health. I guess it depends how you look at things.
I have no idea why James friend is acting the way he is. When a church grows as big as City Harvest Church, you occassionally get people who act irresponsible. Generalizing this is wrong.
Doesn't your church leaders teach you that we live in a fallen world, which is why there are things such as suffering and death? Do you believe that? Or do you think that those who are suffering or poor are not recipients of God's blessings? What does CHC teach you?
You said Kong Hee teaches you to tithe and give cheerfully. But does he teach you that tithing is NOT a requirement under the New Covenant? I ask you to provide me an instance in the NT where believers are taught that they must tithe their income to the church. Just one. Yes, we should give cheerfully.
Where in the Bible is it taught that those who trust in God are full of health and wealth? Your leaders may teach this, but is this what the Bible teaches?
You said God does not enjoy people being poor. Again no where is this taught in the Bible. It is fallacious to claim that those who are critical of the H&W movement are people who think that there is something wrong with being healthy and wealthy. There is nothing wrong with both. What is wrong is to claim that these are what believers should get when they become believers. Neither the Scriptures or reality bears this out.
You just need to give me NT examples of believers being promised health and wealth. When Jesus walked the earth, He healed many who came to Him in faith. I am sure there were also many who left without healing because they did not come to Him in faith. It's not about how one chooses to look at things, it's about what the Bible teaches and whether your beliefs are exegetically sound.
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Money, money, money.
Everyday talk about money.
Haiz.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Doesn't your church leaders teach you that we live in a fallen world, which is why there are things such as suffering and death? Do you believe that? Or do you think that those who are suffering or poor are not recipients of God's blessings? What does CHC teach you?
You said Kong Hee teaches you to tithe and give cheerfully. But does he teach you that tithing is NOT a requirement under the New Covenant? I ask you to provide me an instance in the NT where believers are taught that they must tithe their income to the church. Just one. Yes, we should give cheerfully.
Where in the Bible is it taught that those who trust in God are full of health and wealth? Your leaders may teach this, but is this what the Bible teaches?
You said God does not enjoy people being poor. Again no where is this taught in the Bible. It is fallacious to claim that those who are critical of the H&W movement are people who think that there is something wrong with being healthy and wealthy. There is nothing wrong with both. What is wrong is to claim that these are what believers should get when they become believers. Neither the Scriptures or reality bears this out.
You just need to give me NT examples of believers being promised health and wealth. When Jesus walked the earth, He healed many who came to Him in faith. I am sure there were also many who left without healing because they did not come to Him in faith. It's not about how one chooses to look at things, it's about what the Bible teaches and whether your beliefs are exegetically sound.
BroInChrist, can you share with us how this obligation to tithe and the percentage to be tithed came about?
From what I know, NCC requires that "those serving in any ministry should tithe faithfully".Among other things, they also cannot have premarital sex or "a lifestyle of frequenting nightspots" and are to be "submissive to their superiors".
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The Bible teaches congregations to financially support all those who care for the spiritual needs of the church body.
1 Timothy 5:17-18
Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” And in another place, “Those who work deserve their pay!”
We tithe not because it is a requirement, but because we want to. The tithes are used for the ministries (and ministers) of the church.
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Alize, I have nothing to add. What you write is correct. I don't see what is your problem.
Nobody forces you to join CHC. If you cannot accept the rules, just go visit another church which better fits your needs.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
The Bible teaches congregations to financially support all those who care for the spiritual needs of the church body.
1 Timothy 5:17-18
Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” And in another place, “Those who work deserve their pay!”
We tithe not because it is a requirement, but because we want to. The tithes are used for the ministries (and ministers) of the church.
You all damn smart picking out quotes to support money.
What about quotes warning you about money?
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I forgot the poor "statements"
Check 3John 2, Proverbs 10:14, Eccl. 9:15, Proverbs 24:33-34, Proverbs 22:2, Rom 12:2, Proverbs 19:4...the list is endless
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Charlize, the Bible warns about the "Love of Money".
We tithe and offer to charity - We give money not keep.