19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
agree that zeeleewong is an embarassment
if my atheist temple also got such people, i also will be worried to death
Atheist temple.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Atheist temple.
u ask mr broinchrist aka christ stabber
everyone who oppose him is atheist
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Originally posted by laurence82:
u ask mr broinchrist aka christ stabber
everyone who oppose him is atheist
That is certainly most true of you, who now harbours a personal vendetta against me ever since you failed to hold your side of the argument. -
Originally posted by charlize:
Atheist temple.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
That is certainly most true of you, who now harbours a personal vendetta against me ever since you failed to hold your side of the argument.nope
thats you, who dont even know you failed even if 10 forumers told you so
troll
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I am still watching. It is amusing to see how people are showing their true colours.
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Lots of weird people in sgforums.
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welcome to sgforums!
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Originally posted by NicestRay:
@alize: Giving is supposed to be done out of the giver's will. After clarifying this issue with some mature Christians, it is not right for a leader to approach members to give. We are judged not based on whether or how much we gave, but how we steward our finances. God does not need our money, giving is just one of the many ways we should do to prevent covetousness and support church leaders in their work.
How the church leaders account for the money is a different matter. They are to be good stewards; spending wisely and reporting transparent details for accountability.
@Xiao^P: We do not know how true Jame's story about his friend is. After all, his first post is not supported by accurate information, but rather opinionated. The church builds up a spiritual family that provides a platform for one another to grow in the body of Christ. Of course there will be some others who may desert you in times of crisis, indifferent from the secular setting, but which organization and its people are perfect? Based on personal experiences alone, I know that there're church friends who stood by me when I struggled. No one can promise that all friends can be there for you and this remains true within and outside the walls of the church. It doesn't work to judge Christ based on your encounters with church attendees alone. I hope one day you realize how much He loves you.
@Zeeleewong: Your faith has made you strong. Loving God wholeheartedly and loving people fervently are the foundations of CHC's beliefs. Arguing does no one justice. Some of their points are worth thinking through- Entrusting your life in Pastor Kong's teaching and actions is not healthy Christian living, rather, be open to constructive criticism. Leave them be if their opinions cannot agree, keeping hurtful remarks out of discussion. Blessed are the peacemakers. ;)
NicestRay is nicest.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
NicestRay is nicest.
You.
Weirdo.
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Seriously, if you all got the time to debate over this, why not go & do some good deeds instead?
No church is perfect and everyone is still learning. There is no need to criticise/mock your fellow brother/sister in christ. I don't think you'll gain anything out of these.
For non-christian, no one has the same belief. Be acceptive of others as how u want others to accept your differences.
Utimately, I believe each one of us will be held accountable for the things we do/say, be it christian or not; during this life or eternal life; CHC or other churches.
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Originally posted by sweetsourplum:
Seriously, if you all got the time to debate over this, why not go & do some good deeds instead?
No church is perfect and everyone is still learning. There is no need to criticise/mock your fellow brother/sister in christ. I don't think you'll gain anything out of these.
For non-christian, no one has the same belief. Be acceptive of others as how u want others to accept your differences.
Utimately, I believe each one of us will be held accountable for the things we do/say, be it christian or not; during this life or eternal life; CHC or other churches.
No prizes for guessing who you are.
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times are bad
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hmm... and your point is?
Originally posted by charlize:No prizes for guessing who you are.
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Originally posted by sweetsourplum:
Life is surreal.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
I am still watching. It is amusing to see how people are showing their true colours.
Don't watch here. Watch where you least expect that we will shout from the rooftops about the practices of your church that you so honestly validated and affirmed. Factual ok? You agreed ok?
See how City Harvest Pastor asks people for donation
Originally posted by Zeeleewong:Alize, I have nothing to add. What you write is correct. I don't see what is your problem.
Nobody forces you to join CHC. If you cannot accept the rules, just go visit another church which better fits your needs.
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http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-1/Story/STIStory_815169.html
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1209942/1/.html
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I remember how zeeleewong was saying that after 2 years also, no charges preferred against Kong Hee.
Well now, the charges have been preferred, what is the response?
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Times are bad.
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Use a silk skirt to mast..........and open your legs or ass wide
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zeeweelong already run road liao
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Just donate 1 million and immediate membership.
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Originally posted by Medicated Oil:
Just donate 1 million and immediate membership.
donate that amt and you will immediately get a high rank inside. -
Church sent funds to US 'to finance Ho's career'
Watchdog uncovers misconduct and mismanagement from 2007 to 2010
Ms Ho's rented Hollywood Hills home in 2010. The watchdog said between April 2007 and March 2010, at least $3.6 million from a private fund was used to foot the expenses of Ms Ho and Mr Kong (above). -- PHOTOS: NEW PAPER FILE, INTERNET
BY YEN FENG
AN INQUIRY by the Commissioner of Charities into the finances of City Harvest Church has exposed misconduct and mismanagement, particularly in the way its funds were managed from 2007 to 2010.In a statement yesterday, the charities watchdog said that financial irregularities of at least $23 million from the church's funds have been discovered.
These funds were used 'with the purported intention to finance Ho Yeow Sun's secular music career to connect with people', said the commission.
The funds were funnelled to the United States, where Ms Ho - the wife of founding pastor Kong Hee - was based.
It was done mainly in two ways: through an affiliate church in Kuala Lumpur, and a private bank account set up by the church some time after 2003.
Between December 2007 and May 2010, at least $2.1 million was transferred from City Harvest to the Kuala Lumpur church.
The commission said that five people were aware of the 'true purpose' of the donations to the Kuala Lumpur church - pastors Kong Hee and Tan Ye Peng, as well as executive members Teo Meng How, Sharon Tan Shao Yuen and Serina Wee Gek Yin.
The controversy may be said to have begun a decade ago, in 2002, when Mr Kong and Ms Ho established The Crossover Project to use Ms Ho's singing career to reach out to non-Christians.
A year later, church member Roland Poon levied accusations at the church, saying it was using members' donations to fund the singer's music career.
The allegations gained widespread scrutiny and the church issued press statements and persuaded its members that the allegations were untrue. Mr Poon later issued a public apology and retracted his statements.
The commission said yesterday that the church had in fact used its funds to finance the project.
Over three years, at least $23 million in church donations was used. However, the church's executive members were not told of how the funds were being used, the commission added.
Besides using the Malaysian church to send money to the US, there were several donations and tithes that were re-directed to a private fund known as the Multi- Purpose Account.
Funds in this account were also used to finance Ms Ho's career, the charities board said, adding that it was administered by Ms Wee, the church's former finance manager and executive member, and Ms Jacqueline Tan, a staff member.
Between April 2007 and March 2010, at least $3.6 million from this private fund was used to pay for Mr Kong's and his wife's expenses, the commission said.
To keep the fund going, selected donors were asked to transfer their contributions - from the church's building fund to this private account.
Apart from this small group of members, the existence of the fund was not known to other church members. There was even an attempt to conceal the existence of the account by closing it and dealing only in cash transactions, the commission said.
In 2009, a plan was hatched by Mr Tan, Mr Chew, Ms Wee and Ms Sharon Tan to transfer a $600,000 building fund donation by an Indonesian businessman, Mr Wahju Hanafi, to the private account. Of this, $100,000 was used to finance a media team from Singapore to publicise Ms Ho's career in the US.
The commission said the transfer was done by drafting letters from the businessman and a third party stating that the donation was not to the building fund, but to some City Harvest pastors and members as 'love gifts'.
The recipients of the funds then re-deposited the $600,000 donation into the private fund. Investigations by the commission, however, uncovered evidence that 'strongly suggests' the letters were backdated.
It also uncovered instances where the church attempted to hide 'related party' transactions.
Between 2006 and 2008, a company headed by Mr Kong sold more than $3 million worth of goods to the church. Because of his ties to the church, these transactions should have been declared in the church's financial statements.
But they were not. The commission said Mr Kong, motivated by concerns that the books would be audited, returned $770,000 to the church. This 'refund' was concealed as a 'sales discount' given to the church by his company.
But the amount was later reimbursed to Mr Kong from funds collected through the private account and the Kuala Lumpur church. The refund was thus 'cosmetic' and he was never 'out of pocket', the commission said.
Those aware of this move were Mr Tan, Mr Teo, Ms Sharon Tan, Ms Wee and Ms Jacqueline Tan.
The commission also said the church had refunded donations of about $338,000 in two separate tranches to Mr Chew after he suffered some financial difficulties. The second payment of $98,000 was approved by the board nine months after Mr Chew received the full amount.
It added that Mr Chew's appointment as the church's investment manager was not properly tabled and discussed by the church's board.
Top Of the News, The Straits Times, Wednesday, June 27 2012, Pg A6
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For that kind of money, the music and quality of the music videos are quite bad.