19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
hahahaha so proud. You want to check if CHC is "Christian"? I will enjoy you guys making a fool of yourself. UC we do not care if you call us Christian or not: we are CITY HARVEST CHURCH.
You guys think you're smart by trying to prove something which is already fact. Of course our doctrine deviates from historical churches. Our doctrine is based on Christianity butit is one of a kind and inspired by God.
We are a non-denominational church NOT formally aligned with established denominations. Pastor Kong explicitley rejects the concept of a formalized structure. It is our choice to be non-denominational because CHC disagrees with some of the theological points of view. We believe that our belief structure is unique. We believe that we are better off being autonomous, under the leadership of Pastor Kong. We have unconditional faith in Pastor Kong. If Pastor Kong leaves, we will follow. You can call that cultic, we don't care.
Do you think we do not know what upsets you, my so-called righteous brethren? We are warned about your arguments, and we are trained on how to reject. We avoid discussions with you out of respect and kindness. We prefer not to argue. We are strong in our belief while you are weak. We know and feel we are right. You have closed your heart for Jesus. You will never experience the miracles of healing and wealth if you do not open up your heart for Jesus.
Not everyone is against us. We associate with other churches around the world. These friendly churches are regularly invited to worship with us in Singapore:
- Yoido Full Gospel Church (Coming next month)
- Benny Hinn Ministries
- John Avanzini Ministries
- Steve Munsey Ministries
- Derek Dunn Ministries
- Hillsong Church ministries
- Lakeland Revival Church (Todd Bentley)
- Bethel Church (Bill Johnson coming this month)
...
You are free to oppose to our belief system or any of our friends above. We are sure you will. Get it into your heads "WE DO NOT CARE".
We are CITY HARVEST CHURCH - MY CHURCH, MY FAMILY, MY LIFE
I don't understand why you all keep talking about miracle healings? Don't you people know that miracle healings happen in all other religions like Buddhism, Taosim etc. If not, you think why there are so many followers. It is only that their followers don't go round boasting about it. I've heard of many miracle healings coming from followers of other religions. I think you live in a small world.
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Whoopsie .. dbl post.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
Did not see your reply...
Those are some harsh statements you make. Truth often hurts.
I do tend to believe that deep down, people that go to casinos, know they will not increase their health, but something more powerful is overriding the logic. I do not understand enough about the topic to see if body chemistry, endorphines, etc... or other factors play a role as well.
Trust me.. mankind have been trying to find THE answer to all answers about thier own purpose and existence on this blue planet. Thier purpose and reason's to exist shapes the world we know today. And what we see today is obviously very diverse.
Its like common sense is not really that common. Logically absurd things turns out to be quite sensible actually.
Truth hurts.. but what's the truth ? What is Truth ? I am not going to go down this whole philosophy of Truth. Assuming I use the definition loosely.
Alize pointed out a good point. While very few of us actually understand the entire legislation making process, how many in the masses that goes to vote on an issue/party actually knows what exactly is happening, or do they just understand basic issues like increase of wages, taxes and simple issues highlighted by arrows giving you a sense of assurance that things will go well.
There are a few reason's for that. One is that we choose to trust and believe in said higher authority to make such decisions for us. Maybe we are just lazy, if so.. are we to blame ourselves? Or should we let those that supposedly know what they are doing make such decisions in our best interests?
Next question should be then whether it is necessarily a bad thing ? Same with CHC. Its definately a complex issue that needs to be looked at from various levels which you have pointed out already in describing a cult in this context.
Compounding on the questions before us, can we as human beings,really know how to live our own lives ourselves ? Or do we need some form of external projection of wisdom and knowledge through any form of mediums available to us at that time ? I personally think not. That begs us the question then, are we inherently.... illogical ? Or is it actually logical in an illogical way ?(Which can become a tautology)
So I think.... we are actually getting more questions than actual answers. Especially on issues like prosperity interpretations of the Bible, or just Bible interpretations in general; I can only try and understand from the P.O.V of the law. By comparing the Bible to the Law, one thing I find similiar is the fact that both of these subjects have in thier own right a set of prescribed tools for interpretation.
For example, when one embarks on statutory interpretation, we have three tools. The textual, substantial and deference method is to aid us in our understanding of the legislation. Such discretion when used in the courts often have the discretion of the Judge to determine what parliament intends it to be. However, the Judge is not the drafter of the legislation. How could he possibly know ? Have judges been wrong ? Yes.
Now the Bible, it also have different schools of interpretation. But both the Bible and the law share a common theme. There is a core. The foundation that supports the pillars. An underlying principle. A fundamental reason for it's existence. While we cannot know ALL the law, or the laws of the world, we can however over time grasp what the law is or what the law ought to be. Same with the Bible, the learning never stops, the interpretation subject to it's own at times, and soon... one may be able to just grasp what the Bible intends to convey.
That is why, as time progresses.. like the law, hopefully, prosperity teaching in churchs will realise perhaps some but not all of the teachings wrong. That the underlying core of Jesus's teachings still prevail over all others.
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WOT.
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Benny Hinn? See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn
I'd sooner trust Benny Hill than Benny Hinn
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Properity doctrine is the one and true doctrine
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Originally posted by laurence82:
Properity doctrine is the one and true doctrine
a) Prosperity
b) Property
c) Proprietary
d) Propriety
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i pledge my allegiance to Pastor Kong Hee
All of you, followers of Satan, bow down before me!
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
@ Alize
Finally had the time to review your response from March 9.
I did understand "deeper level" wrongly, thanks for clearing up.
You wrote:" I think much also depends on the individual's predisposition to such teachings" I deduct from this that "unquestioned belief" is something that can he "teached".
How would you "teach" someone "unquestioned" belief?
Following your expose on "Emotion trumps logic quite easily", I can see how advertiser's use emotions to create a need. I ended up buying an iPhone against my logic. The mere fact that "everybody has an iPhone" played an important part. Looking back, it's quite amazing how I framed myself into buying this gadget. I am still making excuses to justify the buy.
However, this is just a phone. You can call it foolish but it is not irresponsible behaviour. To make me do something irresponsible, like stacking up debts or neglecting wife/children, it requires more than a sexy lady in a brochure. I doubt if advertisements could bring me to the point of acting irresponsible. It would take a non-stop indoctrination of my inner thoughts.
The more I read on this stuff, I am getting convinced that the only thing that is capable of changing my "Self", and spends enough time around me to have a lasting effect, is myself or my own mind/thoughts.
(I realize this sounds weird - hope I am making sense).
This leads me to believe that something just kicks off the thought-process. Once the thought-process is running, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to stop the thought-train.
I watch this experiment showing how easy your brain conspires against us. Once we make a decision, we defend our decision vigourously without any insights or details about the criteria. In the experiment people motivate decisions which they did not make. It shows that once we made up our minds, there is too much invested to backpaddle. Humans prefer to post-rationalize and prefer it was a great choice all along.
If people cannot win an argument against themselves, what changes do we have to make them see reason?
Life-changing thoughts do not appear in someone's head "out of nowhere".
People are responsible for their own choices, I agree.
Yet history shows that smart and intelligent people have done not so smart things.
What triggered them into acting against their reason?
or differently posed:
If you wanted to seed a thought in the head of a group of people, how would you do it?
I am still making excuses to justify the buy.
> This is called rationalisation. Trying to make sense of something.
It would take a non-stop indoctrination of my inner thoughts. & How would you "teach" someone "unquestioned" belief? & This leads me to believe that something just kicks off the thought-process. Once the thought-process is running, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to stop the thought-train.
> As I have mentioned, creating the desire for something, and making it stick, can be more powerfully done by working with emotions. Human diversity means not everyone is emotional to the same extent which accounts for the high turnover you amply pointed out, as some new members see the sense, backpaddle, cut their losses etc. Enough will remain and they will be the happily "deeper in" ones.
What you have is a wonderful system in which a core of members select themselves, reinforce each other's beliefs through groupthink and mutual validation. They are unlikely to quit, serve you efficiently and are all the while scouting for new members of whom some will be like them. You get a growing member base.
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Thank you BadzMaro and Alize. That's lots of stuff to digest. Quite heavy on empty stomach.
If I understand correctly, emotions are used as a tool to form a member base. Logic got little to do with it. That explains my friends behavior, and also the "fanatical emotional" reactions from Zeeleewong.
Are these emotions applied deliberately or consciously to create this "wonderful" system?
I find it a bit disturbing. This means the higher authority has control over the core members with only accountability to himself. And if the logic is gone, how to differentiate right from wrong?
Even if all intentions of this higher authority are benevolent, it is impossible to estimate the consequences for individuals in the large core group.
Does Kong Hee understand the implications of his weekly plea for money to troubled families? Does he care? The fact that he is the only one directly benefiting from the charity does not speak for him.
Is it possible to reverse the process? Can core members regain their former logical self? How?
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Had longer talk last night with my CHC friend over a few beers so the situation was semi-relaxed. I tried to be less confrontational and attempt to understand:
Why does he neglect wife and kids?
Why is he not taking responsibility for his debts?
Why does he claim that his life has never been so good despite financial and marital issues?Instead of imposing my opinion, I am trying to see things from his point of view.
What is going on in his head?The critical difference between himself and I seems to be the "unquestionable" faith in Kong Hee, something which I admittingly lack completely. My CHC friend is not "allowing" himself to question Kong Hee.
The mere notion (I asked:" For argument sake, imagine that...") that Kong Hee might not know everything, send my friend in a state bordering to panic. Pitched voice, verbally aggressive, ... (I guess the beer added to this as well).
Following logic: "Humans make mistakes, I am human, hence I will make mistakes" does not apply to Kong Hee.
My friend does acknowledge that he has issues. It does seem to cause him stress. Yet he made himself, with the help of Kong Hee, to believe that God is causing this hardship to test his faith.
Kong Hee is teaching him that God will reward him for his endurance. And he puts all his money on this teaching. He will keep on offering until he receives the 100-fold, or until he is no longer able to offer.
Per my friend's twisted logic: if Kong Hee is wrong, than my friend's neglect of his wife is no longer justified.Hence, Kong Hee cannot be wrong. He is in a one way street. U-turning or backpaddling is no longer possible. Getting the reward is the only hope left.
We discussed the CAD investigation. Even if CAD exposes the misuse of funds, my friend will not believe or accept. He will join the ranks of those who claim that Kong Hee is framed. How many people in CHC think exactly like this?
I pray that not many CHC members have to face similar hardship as my friend, but if they do, I hope they react more responsible.
If I interpret BadzMaro's and Alize's posts correctly, a significant emotional shock could wake him up and get the logic to kick in again. I just hope the damage will be small.
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PS: Interesting detail is that my friend keeps his personal problems away from CHC. His "CHC friends" (he distinguishes his friends as CHC friends and old friends) are not supposed to know. I find that peculiar. What are friends for.
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Are you a psychologist doing a research paper or what?
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
Had longer talk last night with my CHC friend over a few beers so the situation was semi-relaxed. I tried to be less confrontational and attempt to understand:
Why does he neglect wife and kids?
Why is he not taking responsibility for his debts?
Why does he claim that his life has never been so good despite financial and marital issues?Instead of imposing my opinion, I am trying to see things from his point of view.
What is going on in his head?The critical difference between himself and I seems to be the "unquestionable" faith in Kong Hee, something which I admittingly lack completely. My CHC friend is not "allowing" himself to question Kong Hee.
The mere notion (I asked:" For argument sake, imagine that...") that Kong Hee might not know everything, send my friend in a state bordering to panic. Pitched voice, verbally aggressive, ... (I guess the beer added to this as well).
Following logic: "Humans make mistakes, I am human, hence I will make mistakes" does not apply to Kong Hee.
My friend does acknowledge that he has issues. It does seem to cause him stress. Yet he made himself, with the help of Kong Hee, to believe that God is causing this hardship to test his faith.
Kong Hee is teaching him that God will reward him for his endurance. And he puts all his money on this teaching. He will keep on offering until he receives the 100-fold, or until he is no longer able to offer.
Per my friend's twisted logic: if Kong Hee is wrong, than my friend's neglect of his wife is no longer justified.Hence, Kong Hee cannot be wrong. He is in a one way street. U-turning or backpaddling is no longer possible. Getting the reward is the only hope left.
We discussed the CAD investigation. Even if CAD exposes the misuse of funds, my friend will not believe or accept. He will join the ranks of those who claim that Kong Hee is framed. How many people in CHC think exactly like this?
I pray that not many CHC members have to face similar hardship as my friend, but if they do, I hope they react more responsible.
If I interpret BadzMaro's and Alize's posts correctly, a significant emotional shock could wake him up and get the logic to kick in again. I just hope the damage will be small.
and so your friend is trying to cope with all his financial issues while maintaining all forms of commitment to CHC?
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Honestly, I wish I was a psychologist. All I am trying to do is help a dear friend. At the moment my prospects of success are very thin.
My attempts automatically lead to the psychological or emotinal side of things. Why is that? Did I choose to take this route?
No I did not. CHC is emotions-driven. It is all about "feel-good" experiences, nice music, happy faces, promises and dreams of wealth, personalized in the shape of Kong Hee, the untouchable. Exaggerated? Go and try to "touch" (question) Kong Hee.
As it stands, my friend does not even realize he needs help. From my point of view: I see a rich Mega-church respected by so many in Singapore yet incapable of helping one of their own. What does that tell me?
Instead of protecting my friend, a dedicated member of CHC, against his self destructing behaviour, CHC is reinforcing and encouraging it. Kong Hee says: "Sell your HDB", "Sell your house", "Sell your car", GIVE GIVE GIVE and the Lord will bless you. How many CHC members believe this "with all their heart?"
Every time, which is 3 times per week -- service on Saturday, Cell group meeting and Christian fellowship work meeting -- my friend is told to tithe and offer, pushing him further to the cliff. And yes, my friend complies to the pleads of Kong Hee. He tithes and offers at the cost of his family.
So far, all CHC has done is give a check, and the advice to keep quiet and not to upset his CHC brothers and sisters. From their point of view: We have done all we could, you are on your own.
I wonder what is the point of growing a Church if you are not able to care for your own members? Excuses like: Our church is so big, we can not look out for everybody - do not impress me.
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I am forming an extremely poor opinion of Kong Hee and city harvest from the description of your friend's experiences.
Why Kong Hee focuses so how on materialistic stuff? This is odd for a christian pastor leh.
Sounds like fuck shit to me.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
We believe that we are better off being autonomous, under the leadership of Pastor Kong. We have unconditional faith in Pastor Kong. If Pastor Kong leaves, we will follow. You can call that cultic, we don't care.
You mean you never use your own brain to think and blindly accept everything? I reject this type of behaviour.
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Please do not base your opinion of Kong Hee solely on this blog. I sincerely hope that the situation of my friend is not representative for CHC. On the other hand, my friend is garantueed not the only one in this situation. Also, if he did not have any financial issues, his current state of mind would never have surfaced.
Materialistic? Ask any CHC member about the focus on money.
I receive following sample of the CHC logic:
We do not focus on materialistic stuff. Followed by: And this why it is important to acquire wealth.I am trying to find out why people swallow and defend this obvious contradiction.
Ever since my friend joined CHC his behaviour became irresponsible. His state of mind "I am reborn - everything is great" denies the reality of his situation, spiralling it from bad to worse.
Listening to his own testimony, and talking to his wife, I am convinced that something in CHC is the cause for this radical change to unhealthy behaviour. I learned it is not logical yet emotional.
If I understand more about "How did CHC manage to change my friend", I hope to have a chance of helping him. And my next question will be: Is CHC intentionally using emotions to create a certain behavior?
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Kong Hee's own private life also odd. wife is pop singer.
Where got christain pastor wife is pop singer one? one look you know something odd with the guy already.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:
Kong Hee's own private life also odd. wife is pop singer.
Where got christain pastor wife is pop singer one? one look you know something odd with the guy already.
You are not the only one saying this. I've seen a pastor's blog. This pastor is from another church, I believe it is the traditional type. His comment on Kong Hee's wife is worse than yours. I can't believe it is from a pastor. Can't remember the pastor's name. The older generation Christians also told me that they could not comprehend the younger generation Christians and churches. They shook their heads. They said the younger generation Christians do not know what is Christianity all about.
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Originally posted by Pinknutri:
The older generation Christians also told me that they could not comprehend the younger generation Christians and churches. They shook their heads. They said the younger generation Christians do not know what is Christianity all about.
I hope it's only city harvest.
Hebrews 13:5 ESV / 392 helpful votes
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
1 John 2:16 ESV / 116 helpful votes
For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
1 Timothy 6:9-10 ESV / 83 helpful votes
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Luke 12:15 ESV / 75 helpful votes
And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”
1 Timothy 6:10 ESV / 52 helpful votes
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Matthew 6:19-21 ESV / 49 helpful votes
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Ecclesiastes 5:10 ESV / 42 helpful votes
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.
Romans 12:2 ESV / 37 helpful votes
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Matthew 6:33 ESV / 34 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Mark 4:18-19 ESV / 30 helpful votes
And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Luke 16:19-31 ESV / 20 helpful votes
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ...
1 Timothy 6:6-10 ESV / 19 helpful votes
Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Luke 16:14-15 ESV / 12 helpful votes
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
1 John 3:17 ESV / 9 helpful votes
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
James 5:1-20 ESV / 9 helpful votes
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. ...
John 10:10 ESV / 9 helpful votes
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
1 John 2:15-17 ESV / 8 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Luke 16:1-31 ESV / 8 helpful votes
He also said to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a manager, and charges were brought to him that this man was wasting his possessions. And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this that I hear about you? Turn in the account of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’ And the manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. I have decided what to do, so that when I am removed from management, people may receive me into their houses.’ So, summoning his master's debtors one by one, he said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ ...
Isaiah 1:1-31 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. ...
Ecclesiastes 12:13 ESV / 5 helpful votes
The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecclesiastes 2:11 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun.
James 4:4 ESV / 4 helpful votes
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Psalm 62:1-12 ESV / 4 helpful votes
To the choirmaster: according to Jeduthun. A Psalm of David. For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be greatly shaken. How long will all of you attack a man to batter him, like a leaning wall, a tottering fence? They only plan to thrust him down from his high position. They take pleasure in falsehood. They bless with their mouths, but inwardly they curse. Selah For God alone, O my soul, wait in silence, for my hope is from him. ...
John 8:44 ESV / 3 helpful votes
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Matthew 6:24 ESV / 3 helpful votes
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Genesis 3:19 ESV / 1 helpful vote
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
It is recorded in one Muslim tradition about Jesus [saas], that he only had three possessions, his robe, a drinking cup, and a comb.
One day he was walking along the river and saw a man using his hands to cup water and bring it to his mouth, so Jesus [saas] said, “Then I do not need this cup.” -And with that he gave it to a poor man. He continued on his way until he saw a man running his fingers through his hair, and Jesus [saas] said, “Then I do not need this comb.” -And with that he gave the comb to a poor man, and thus had given up all worldly possessions except for one garment which he wore.
Jesus [saas] was not a consumer. He was not interested in anything except worshiping God and being close to Him. It is related in the Christian scriptures that Jesus [saas] said, “My kingdom is not of this world…” He said in another Christian tradition “Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6].
http://theletteredwayfarer.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/the-spirituality-of-the-islamic-christ/
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Thank you BadzMaro and Alize. That's lots of stuff to digest. Quite heavy on empty stomach.
If I understand correctly, emotions are used as a tool to form a member base. Logic got little to do with it. That explains my friends behavior, and also the "fanatical emotional" reactions from Zeeleewong.
> I was not speaking specific to any church or person. Hence I cannot relate my words to your friend's case.
If I interpret BadzMaro's and Alize's posts correctly, a significant emotional shock could wake him up and get the logic to kick in again. I just hope the damage will be small.
> I did not make such an assertion. I'm not able to advise on assisting someone like this.
We discussed the CAD investigation. Even if CAD exposes the misuse of funds, my friend will not believe or accept. He will join the ranks of those who claim that Kong Hee is framed. How many people in CHC think exactly like this?
> If CAD charges any person, he is innocent until proven guilty in court. After which, to insist on his innocence is to commit the offence of contempt of court.
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Personally I have no issue with Kong Hee's wife being a pop singer. I do find it more difficult to accept when a church actively starts to promote her career.
It resembles the story of the wealthy parents who use their influence to get their son into the high-quality school although the son is not entitled because the school is in a different district.
Can you blame the parents for wanting the best education for their son? No?
Would we change our view if we realize that the rich son is taking the place of another less fortunate child, who was entitled but because of the rich son lost his seat? I think we would change as the behaviour of the rich parents is morally wrong. The end does not justify the means. Or does it?
Which less fortunate singer had to give up her spot because of artificially boasted sun CD sales because members started buying multiple copies? What's the point in buying multiple CD's of the same anyway? This is not rational.
I see similar phenomina with Jack Neo. CHC members are flooding the likes, and comments of his latest movie on FB, even before they have seen the movie. I find this behaviour very questionable.
You can say CHC'ers want the best for Sun and Jack, yet neglect the fact that it is dishonest and might cause damage to others.
With regards to Kong Hee's private life. Everybody has a right to a private life, and so does Kong Hee. BUT...I raise my eyebrows when devoted CHC'ers claim they KNOW Kong Hee, and use this "knowledge" as the basis for their belief.
I wonder how many people really know Kong Hee. All we know about Kong Hee, is what he tells and publishes about himself. He paints his own picture and that is seldom the same as reality.
Is he really the shephard that goes out of his way to save a single sheep? or is he more interested in having a huge flock?
Let me answer on behalf of Zeeleewong: Pastor Kong does both! right?