19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.
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@ Alize
Thank you for the video - I attended the live spectacles. Youtube shows the video's for what they are - ridiculous. However, in church, surrounded by people opening their wallets, with tears in their eyes, somehow makes it sound a great thing to do.
And thank you for the disclaimer also :)
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Jack Neo is from city harvest?
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
However, in church, surrounded by people opening their wallets, with tears in their eyes, somehow makes it sound a great thing to do.
Herd mentality. monkey see monkey do.
I completely reject this type of mentality.
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@ James - you r correct
@ Dalforce 1941 - yes Jack is our brother.
Philippians 4:19
And my God will liberally supply your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.Proverbs 10:22
It is the blessing of the LORD that makes rich, and He adds no sorrow to it.Genesis 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore...Proverbs 24:4
And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant richesPsalm 35:27
Let those who favor my righteous cause and have pleasure in my uprightness shout for joy and be glad and say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, Who takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.Joshua 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.Leviticus 26:9
I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new.Isaiah 1:19
If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.1 Timothy 6:17
... trust in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.Deuteronomy 8:18
“And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.Matthew 18:19
Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.Psalm 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore."Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.God bless!
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Hebrews 13:5 ESV / 392 helpful votes
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
1 John 2:16 ESV / 116 helpful votes
For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
1 Timothy 6:9-10 ESV / 83 helpful votes
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Luke 12:15 ESV / 75 helpful votes
And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”
1 Timothy 6:10 ESV / 52 helpful votes
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Matthew 6:19-21 ESV / 49 helpful votes
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Ecclesiastes 5:10 ESV / 42 helpful votes
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.
Romans 12:2 ESV / 37 helpful votes
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Matthew 6:33 ESV / 34 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Mark 4:18-19 ESV / 30 helpful votes
And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Luke 16:19-31 ESV / 20 helpful votes
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ...
1 Timothy 6:6-10 ESV / 19 helpful votes
Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Luke 16:14-15 ESV / 12 helpful votes
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
1 John 3:17 ESV / 9 helpful votes
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
James 5:1-20 ESV / 9 helpful votes
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. ...
John 10:10 ESV / 9 helpful votes
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
1 John 2:15-17 ESV / 8 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Luke 16:1-31 ESV / 8 helpful votes
He also said to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a manager, and charges were brought to him that this man was wasting his possessions. And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this that I hear about you? Turn in the account of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’ And the manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. I have decided what to do, so that when I am removed from management, people may receive me into their houses.’ So, summoning his master's debtors one by one, he said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ ...
Isaiah 1:1-31 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master's crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. ...
Ecclesiastes 12:13 ESV / 5 helpful votes
The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecclesiastes 2:11 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun.
James 4:4 ESV / 4 helpful votes
You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Psalm 62:1-12 ESV / 4 helpful votes
To the choirmaster: according to Jeduthun. A Psalm of David. For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be greatly shaken. How long will all of you attack a man to batter him, like a leaning wall, a tottering fence? They only plan to thrust him down from his high position. They take pleasure in falsehood. They bless with their mouths, but inwardly they curse. Selah For God alone, O my soul, wait in silence, for my hope is from him. ...
John 8:44 ESV / 3 helpful votes
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Matthew 6:24 ESV / 3 helpful votes
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Genesis 3:19 ESV / 1 helpful vote
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
It is recorded in one Muslim tradition about Jesus [saas], that he only had three possessions, his robe, a drinking cup, and a comb.
One day he was walking along the river and saw a man using his hands to cup water and bring it to his mouth, so Jesus [saas] said, “Then I do not need this cup.” -And with that he gave it to a poor man. He continued on his way until he saw a man running his fingers through his hair, and Jesus [saas] said, “Then I do not need this comb.” -And with that he gave the comb to a poor man, and thus had given up all worldly possessions except for one garment which he wore.
Jesus [saas] was not a consumer. He was not interested in anything except worshiping God and being close to Him. It is related in the Christian scriptures that Jesus [saas] said, “My kingdom is not of this world…” He said in another Christian tradition “Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6].
http://theletteredwayfarer.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/the-spirituality-of-the-islamic-christ/
God Bless. Amen.
Worship God, not money.
Matthew 6:24 ESV / 3 helpful votes
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
You cannot serve God and money.
Hebrews 13:5 ESV / 392 helpful votes
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Worship God, serve God, you may or may not be rich. God may or may not bless you with riches.
But the focus is not wealth. It's not money. It's not materialism.
It's God. Join church is about looking for God. For spiritual needs, for spiritual ends, not material needs, not material ends.
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Didn’t Jesus himself teach us to pray that God’s kingdom would come and his will would be done on EARTH as it is in heaven?
Do you really believe that life in heaven will be simple and humble?
Do you really see Jesus being simple or humble in his glory?
Do you think Jesus didn’t really mean “Come now!” when he prayed “Let your kingdom come”?We believe that Heaven will be a super abundance of all that we could ask to have. And so will be our lives on EARTH. We have our belief. We respect yours.
You can continue to take versus out of context. Or you can chose to listen to Pastor Kong.
If you think that you should be poor, God might just give you what you are asking for. -
Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
Didn’t Jesus himself teach us to pray that God’s kingdom would come and his will would be done on EARTH as it is in heaven?
Do you really believe that life in heaven will be simple and humble?
Do you really see Jesus being simple or humble in his glory?
Do you think Jesus didn’t really mean “Come now!” when he prayed “Let your kingdom come”?We believe that Heaven will be a super abundance of all that we could ask to have. And so will be our lives on EARTH. We have our belief. We respect yours.
You can continue to take versus out of context. Or you can chose to listen to Pastor Kong.
If you think that you should be poor, God might just give you what you are asking for.I give up.
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Zeelee has quoted some verses, Dalforce has quotes some verses. Both of you are correct.
But God will bless whoever's sincerity is sincerer, knowledge of His will and Word are deeper, and understanding of Him is clearer.
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this thread makes me wanna go to CHC's session one day and watch ppl make a fool of themselves
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Originally posted by motoway:
this thread makes me wanna go to CHC's session one day and watch ppl make a fool of themselves
me too. watch free concert
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and when they donate money I will donate 10 cents and laugh at them
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And I will start singing BOOM SHAKALAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Originally posted by motoway:
and when they donate money I will donate 10 cents and laugh at them
Are you sure you dare to do that ?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Are you sure you dare to do that ?
i will donate 1
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Zeeleewong I applaud you. For the first time I see some substance in your reply. It's still of the mark, but nevertheless it has a bit more character than your previous more emotional retorts.
Why of the mark? Because did Jesus really teach us prosperity. Spitting out a bunch of verses and twisting them to read material wealth is one thing. But, can show us, where in the Bible, Jesus is teaching to pursue material wealth, or tells the churches to teach prosperity?
While browsing for the right answer, do let us know when you come across Jesus teaching us about the 4th dimension.
Good luck
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As far as i know,most orthodox religions always warn of the dangers of having too much money.
The saying "the love of money is the root of all evil" did not come out of nowhere.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Are you sure you dare to do that ?
I confirm I dare.You are talking to someone who wear leopard prints pyjamas out on the streets. In South Korea
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Ok la maybe I gib 20 cents.
Shuang Xi Ling Men
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But I have to say Kee Hong or Hong Kee (sui bian la) looks good.
At least on Google images..
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No but honestly, why would you give 10% of your salary to the church?
cray cray man.I rather use the 10% and all buy tissue paper from the unker near the MRT station
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if u no money god damn u
haha
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Originally posted by motoway:
I confirm I dare.You are talking to someone who wear leopard prints pyjamas out on the streets. In South Korea
Are you ris low?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Are you ris low?
No la..
I am just... RisLow-inspired
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Originally posted by motoway:
No la..
I am just... RisLow-inspired
Leopard prince.
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Last night my CHC friend ended our friendship based on my "blasphemic" belief.
I just finished typing my applause to Zeeleewong when my friend surprised me with a visit, flanked by a CHC Brother and Sister. The "sister", as turned out my friend's cellgroup leader, did all the talking.
The purpose of their visit was to have a "friendly exchange" on Faith. The sister was concerned that the conversations I had with my friend seemed to have a negative effect on his belief. She claimed: "As Christian brothers and sisters it should be possible to have a mature and constructive discussion, and be open to different point of views"
Heck, I am all for healthy conversations - let's talk.
Whether planned or not, the discussion moved to David Yonggi Cho, and his fourth spiritual dimension. The CHC sister elaborated on how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are dwelling in a 4th dimension, the 3 other dimensions being the 3D world we live in (3D being the x-y-z axis).
The CHC sister went on to explain that if we imagine things in the 4th dimension, God will make them happen in the 3D world. She stressed the importance of having a detailed vision of what we want - the picture must be accurate and complete. She even gave me an example - I quote her: "If you want a car, it is not good enough to just ask for a car because than God does not know what you want and he cannot provide. However, if you visualize a BMW, colour black, 7-series, preferred license plate, than God knows what you want and will make it happen in the physical 3D world". She then asked my opinion.
I surpressed the word which popped-up in my head immediately (BOLLOCKS), and tried to explain in a more diplomatic fashion that I find this hard to believe. I explained that I did read something similar in a recent book I bought (The SECRET) and went on to question the biblical foundation of this doctrine.
The CHC sister was less diplomatic in her reply. Expressing doubts about a message from God's annointed one (David Yonggi Cho) and supported by another one of God's annointed (Kong Hee) is proof of blasphemy. The blasphemy argument was used to convince my friend ("See - We told you so") that I was a blasphemer. On top of that "How could I not see how my disbelief is hurting my friends feelings?"
The "idiot" (if you notice some frustration here, you are right) acknowledged and officially ended our friendship. I was to never contact him again ...blah blah blah. He even thanked his friends for making him see the truth.
This ends my brief CHC adventure.
What I learned is:
It is not possible to help someone who does not want to be helped. How to tell a drug addict that taking heroine does not feel good? To my friend it feels good and prevents him to see that around him his world is falling apart. My door will always be open for him but I will stop my efforts in trying to change his mind.All this leaves a very bitter taste about CITY HARVEST CHURCH.
I have learned that most of the CHC members are good people and dedicated Christians trying to get closer to God.I have seriousdoubts and question the leadership of CHC. All evidence points at Kong Hee putting his personal interests over the well-being of the members. Kong Hee fails to take responsibility in his role as spiritual leader. Ignorance is no defense. He is accountable to God, but in his time on Earth, he choose to carry the burden of looking after the spirituality of his group, and is therefore accountable and responsible for every single member. In my book, Kong Hee is not doing a great job.
The size of a church is more important than single members, which tells me that Kong Hee is on the wrong path.
For me, CHC is a non-Christian church with many genuine Christians, with a very charismatic yet theologically immature and morally questionable teacher focusssed on realizing his personal dreams instead of bringing people closer to God.
This is my personal opinion. I have mine - you have yours.
Thanks to everybody for contributing to this topic. I most certainly learned a lot.
Take care and God bless.
James