19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.
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thank you James for making my day.I warned you: Nobody can hijack our faith
Good riddance!
God bless!
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
Last night my CHC friend ended our friendship based on my "blasphemic" belief.
I just finished typing my applause to Zeeleewong when my friend surprised me with a visit, flanked by a CHC Brother and Sister. The "sister", as turned out my friend's cellgroup leader, did all the talking.
The purpose of their visit was to have a "friendly exchange" on Faith. The sister was concerned that the conversations I had with my friend seemed to have a negative effect on his belief. She claimed: "As Christian brothers and sisters it should be possible to have a mature and constructive discussion, and be open to different point of views"
Heck, I am all for healthy conversations - let's talk.
Whether planned or not, the discussion moved to David Yonggi Cho, and his fourth spiritual dimension. The CHC sister elaborated on how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are dwelling in a 4th dimension, the 3 other dimensions being the 3D world we live in (3D being the x-y-z axis).
The CHC sister went on to explain that if we imagine things in the 4th dimension, God will make them happen in the 3D world. She stressed the importance of having a detailed vision of what we want - the picture must be accurate and complete. She even gave me an example - I quote her: "If you want a car, it is not good enough to just ask for a car because than God does not know what you want and he cannot provide. However, if you visualize a BMW, colour black, 7-series, preferred license plate, than God knows what you want and will make it happen in the physical 3D world". She then asked my opinion.
I surpressed the word which popped-up in my head immediately (BOLLOCKS), and tried to explain in a more diplomatic fashion that I find this hard to believe. I explained that I did read something similar in a recent book I bought (The SECRET) and went on to question the biblical foundation of this doctrine.
The CHC sister was less diplomatic in her reply. Expressing doubts about a message from God's annointed one (David Yonggi Cho) and supported by another one of God's annointed (Kong Hee) is proof of blasphemy. The blasphemy argument was used to convince my friend ("See - We told you so") that I was a blasphemer. On top of that "How could I not see how my disbelief is hurting my friends feelings?"
The "idiot" (if you notice some frustration here, you are right) acknowledged and officially ended our friendship. I was to never contact him again ...blah blah blah. He even thanked his friends for making him see the truth.
This ends my brief CHC adventure.
What I learned is:
It is not possible to help someone who does not want to be helped. How to tell a drug addict that taking heroine does not feel good? To my friend it feels good and prevents him to see that around him his world is falling apart. My door will always be open for him but I will stop my efforts in trying to change his mind.All this leaves a very bitter taste about CITY HARVEST CHURCH.
I have learned that most of the CHC members are good people and dedicated Christians trying to get closer to God.I have seriousdoubts and question the leadership of CHC. All evidence points at Kong Hee putting his personal interests over the well-being of the members. Kong Hee fails to take responsibility in his role as spiritual leader. Ignorance is no defense. He is accountable to God, but in his time on Earth, he choose to carry the burden of looking after the spirituality of his group, and is therefore accountable and responsible for every single member. In my book, Kong Hee is not doing a great job.
The size of a church is more important than single members, which tells me that Kong Hee is on the wrong path.
For me, CHC is a non-Christian church with many genuine Christians, with a very charismatic yet theologically immature and morally questionable teacher focusssed on realizing his personal dreams instead of bringing people closer to God.
This is my personal opinion. I have mine - you have yours.
Thanks to everybody for contributing to this topic. I most certainly learned a lot.
Take care and God bless.
James
Sounds like a book I read before regarding the Law of Attractionn years ago. But I would think that supposedly once we leave this worldly place and transcend beyond the material plane, we are not supposed to be human anymore... to have physical needs and wants. To decay or grow. To feel hunger and fullness.
Anyways, there is not much one can do. U will always have those that truly believe. I dont blame them. Perhaps they experienced grace ? Like u said, there are genuine God seeking Christians there. There will always be those core group of people, but it has been shown and proven over time that eventually, it will eat itself from within.Undoubtly there will be those that will be disgruntled and will leave the church angry and resentful because they did not gain what they wanted while only having a superficial understanding of Christianity. Or they would seek salvation after the realisation.
Will CHC in the future end up just like the demise of the magnificent Crystal Cathedral.. bought over by the Catholic after bankruptcy, I dont know.
End of the day, all will be judged. On this earth or another.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong: thank you James for making my day.
I warned you: Nobody can hijack our faith
Good riddance!
God bless!
It's okay, I would rather go to university.
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Hi James I totally agreed with your findings and analysis on CHC. On the surface, CHC may receive a lot of endorsement from even the former retired Anglican Bishop. However, underneath it seem that there is no quality teaching being taught. They seem to be more concern with quoting Biblical verse out of context. Like Mark 10:30 where they just claim that Jesus promise 100 fold blessing. However, the key word seems to be the fact that Jesus is foretelling the possibility to be persecuted as believer. In fact, history has attested that early Christians were persecuted for their belief. The verse seems to hold out comfort to early believer to endure the suffering and that believer should rest their hope in the eternal kingdom then the earthly one. Beside, look at any history text; one will know that Jesus is not a rich man. I wonder how on earth did prosperity preacher received such revelation. In the academic world, the historian and theologian must be laughing it off. Finally, does imagining things till the finest detail will lead to a God answered prayers. Hence it implies God is not OMNISCIENCE (all powerful) and OMNIPOTENT (all powerful) as it deemed. That is really interesting, Psalm 44:21 seem to say otherwise. Zeeleewong If you have time, do listen to what Stephen Tong got to say about Charismatic movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJ5Oe4_fdY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5xZT-S1-Hc&feature=related Chinese has a good saying, “真金�怕�� real gold is not afraid of fire. Hence Real Christian faith is being able to face the hardship without being waver at one belief. That command respect.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
Last night my CHC friend ended our friendship based on my "blasphemic" belief.
I just finished typing my applause to Zeeleewong when my friend surprised me with a visit, flanked by a CHC Brother and Sister. The "sister", as turned out my friend's cellgroup leader, did all the talking.
The purpose of their visit was to have a "friendly exchange" on Faith. The sister was concerned that the conversations I had with my friend seemed to have a negative effect on his belief. She claimed: "As Christian brothers and sisters it should be possible to have a mature and constructive discussion, and be open to different point of views"
Heck, I am all for healthy conversations - let's talk.
Whether planned or not, the discussion moved to David Yonggi Cho, and his fourth spiritual dimension. The CHC sister elaborated on how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are dwelling in a 4th dimension, the 3 other dimensions being the 3D world we live in (3D being the x-y-z axis).
The CHC sister went on to explain that if we imagine things in the 4th dimension, God will make them happen in the 3D world. She stressed the importance of having a detailed vision of what we want - the picture must be accurate and complete. She even gave me an example - I quote her: "If you want a car, it is not good enough to just ask for a car because than God does not know what you want and he cannot provide. However, if you visualize a BMW, colour black, 7-series, preferred license plate, than God knows what you want and will make it happen in the physical 3D world". She then asked my opinion.
I surpressed the word which popped-up in my head immediately (BOLLOCKS), and tried to explain in a more diplomatic fashion that I find this hard to believe. I explained that I did read something similar in a recent book I bought (The SECRET) and went on to question the biblical foundation of this doctrine.
The CHC sister was less diplomatic in her reply. Expressing doubts about a message from God's annointed one (David Yonggi Cho) and supported by another one of God's annointed (Kong Hee) is proof of blasphemy. The blasphemy argument was used to convince my friend ("See - We told you so") that I was a blasphemer. On top of that "How could I not see how my disbelief is hurting my friends feelings?"
The "idiot" (if you notice some frustration here, you are right) acknowledged and officially ended our friendship. I was to never contact him again ...blah blah blah. He even thanked his friends for making him see the truth.
This ends my brief CHC adventure.
What I learned is:
It is not possible to help someone who does not want to be helped. How to tell a drug addict that taking heroine does not feel good? To my friend it feels good and prevents him to see that around him his world is falling apart. My door will always be open for him but I will stop my efforts in trying to change his mind.All this leaves a very bitter taste about CITY HARVEST CHURCH.
I have learned that most of the CHC members are good people and dedicated Christians trying to get closer to God.I have seriousdoubts and question the leadership of CHC. All evidence points at Kong Hee putting his personal interests over the well-being of the members. Kong Hee fails to take responsibility in his role as spiritual leader. Ignorance is no defense. He is accountable to God, but in his time on Earth, he choose to carry the burden of looking after the spirituality of his group, and is therefore accountable and responsible for every single member. In my book, Kong Hee is not doing a great job.
The size of a church is more important than single members, which tells me that Kong Hee is on the wrong path.
For me, CHC is a non-Christian church with many genuine Christians, with a very charismatic yet theologically immature and morally questionable teacher focusssed on realizing his personal dreams instead of bringing people closer to God.
This is my personal opinion. I have mine - you have yours.
Thanks to everybody for contributing to this topic. I most certainly learned a lot.
Take care and God bless.
James
Thanks for sharing James.
If I may add, that the CHC sister believes that one has to visualise things (because God does not know what you want and thus cannot provide) in the 4th dimension in order to have it materialise in the 3rd dimension is to deny the divine attribute of omniscience.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
Didn’t Jesus himself teach us to pray that God’s kingdom would come and his will would be done on EARTH as it is in heaven?
Do you really believe that life in heaven will be simple and humble?
Do you really see Jesus being simple or humble in his glory?
Do you think Jesus didn’t really mean “Come now!” when he prayed “Let your kingdom come”?We believe that Heaven will be a super abundance of all that we could ask to have. And so will be our lives on EARTH. We have our belief. We respect yours.
You can continue to take versus out of context. Or you can chose to listen to Pastor Kong.
If you think that you should be poor, God might just give you what you are asking for.Yes, Jesus prayed that God's Kingdom come and His will be done, but this does not translate to Health & Wealth Gospel.
Yes, heaven is super abundance, but this does not translate to earth riches for all believers.
When Jesus was on earth, foxes have holes and birds have nests but He had no place to rest. Neither by life-example of Jesus' and His immediate followers or in their teaching do we get the idea that riches and health are the inherent rights of a believer.
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Originally posted by Zeeleewong:
@ James - you r correct
@ Dalforce 1941 - yes Jack is our brother.
Philippians 4:19
And my God will liberally supply your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.Proverbs 10:22
It is the blessing of the LORD that makes rich, and He adds no sorrow to it.Genesis 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore...Proverbs 24:4
And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant richesPsalm 35:27
Let those who favor my righteous cause and have pleasure in my uprightness shout for joy and be glad and say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, Who takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.Joshua 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.Leviticus 26:9
I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new.Isaiah 1:19
If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.1 Timothy 6:17
... trust in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.Deuteronomy 8:18
“And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.Matthew 18:19
Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.Psalm 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore."Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.God bless!
Proof-texting is not the right way to go about supporting one's doctrines.
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Originally posted by delirious30:
Hi James
I totally agreed with your findings and analysis on CHC. On the surface, CHC may receive a lot of endorsement from even the former retired Anglican Bishop. However, underneath it seem that there is no quality teaching being taught.They seem to be more concern with quoting Biblical verse out of context. Like Mark 10:30 where they just claim that Jesus promise 100 fold blessing. However, the key word seems to be the fact that Jesus is foretelling the possibility to be persecuted as believer. In fact, history has attested that early Christians were persecuted for their belief. The verse seems to hold out comfort to early believer to endure the suffering and that believer should rest their hope in the eternal kingdom then the earthly one.
Beside, look at any history text; one will know that Jesus is not a rich man. I wonder how on earth did prosperity preacher received such revelation. In the academic world, the historian and theologian must be laughing it off.
Finally, does imagining things till the finest detail will lead to a God answered prayers. Hence it implies God is not OMNISCIENCE (all powerful) and OMNIPOTENT (all powerful) as it deemed. That is really interesting, Psalm 44:21 seem to say otherwise.
Zeeleewong
If you have time, do listen to what Stephen Tong got to say about Charismatic movement.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJ5Oe4_fdY&feat…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5xZT-S1-Hc&feat…
Chinese has a good saying, “真金ä¸�怕ç�«” real gold is not afraid of fire. Hence Real Christian faith is being able to face the hardship without being waver at one belief. That command respect.
Just curious. In true Christian's opinion, will people who have the wrong teachings of Christianity go to heaven after death?
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Originally posted by Pinknutri:
Just curious. In true Christian's opinion, will people who have the wrong teachings of Christianity go to heaven after death?
I think that depends on where the error lies in. By my lights there are core/essential doctrines that define the faith and these pertains to the salvation of the individual. Compromise or denial of these core truths would be fatal. There are other non-core or peripheral teachings that pertains to the health of the church or the believer. These may not affect the eternal destiny but may affect the walk of a believer.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
Last night my CHC friend ended our friendship based on my "blasphemic" belief.
I just finished typing my applause to Zeeleewong when my friend surprised me with a visit, flanked by a CHC Brother and Sister. The "sister", as turned out my friend's cellgroup leader, did all the talking.
The purpose of their visit was to have a "friendly exchange" on Faith. The sister was concerned that the conversations I had with my friend seemed to have a negative effect on his belief. She claimed: "As Christian brothers and sisters it should be possible to have a mature and constructive discussion, and be open to different point of views"
Heck, I am all for healthy conversations - let's talk.
Whether planned or not, the discussion moved to David Yonggi Cho, and his fourth spiritual dimension. The CHC sister elaborated on how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are dwelling in a 4th dimension, the 3 other dimensions being the 3D world we live in (3D being the x-y-z axis).
The CHC sister went on to explain that if we imagine things in the 4th dimension, God will make them happen in the 3D world. She stressed the importance of having a detailed vision of what we want - the picture must be accurate and complete. She even gave me an example - I quote her: "If you want a car, it is not good enough to just ask for a car because than God does not know what you want and he cannot provide. However, if you visualize a BMW, colour black, 7-series, preferred license plate, than God knows what you want and will make it happen in the physical 3D world". She then asked my opinion.
I surpressed the word which popped-up in my head immediately (BOLLOCKS), and tried to explain in a more diplomatic fashion that I find this hard to believe. I explained that I did read something similar in a recent book I bought (The SECRET) and went on to question the biblical foundation of this doctrine.
The CHC sister was less diplomatic in her reply. Expressing doubts about a message from God's annointed one (David Yonggi Cho) and supported by another one of God's annointed (Kong Hee) is proof of blasphemy. The blasphemy argument was used to convince my friend ("See - We told you so") that I was a blasphemer. On top of that "How could I not see how my disbelief is hurting my friends feelings?"
The "idiot" (if you notice some frustration here, you are right) acknowledged and officially ended our friendship. I was to never contact him again ...blah blah blah. He even thanked his friends for making him see the truth.
This ends my brief CHC adventure.
What I learned is:
It is not possible to help someone who does not want to be helped. How to tell a drug addict that taking heroine does not feel good? To my friend it feels good and prevents him to see that around him his world is falling apart. My door will always be open for him but I will stop my efforts in trying to change his mind.All this leaves a very bitter taste about CITY HARVEST CHURCH.
I have learned that most of the CHC members are good people and dedicated Christians trying to get closer to God.I have seriousdoubts and question the leadership of CHC. All evidence points at Kong Hee putting his personal interests over the well-being of the members. Kong Hee fails to take responsibility in his role as spiritual leader. Ignorance is no defense. He is accountable to God, but in his time on Earth, he choose to carry the burden of looking after the spirituality of his group, and is therefore accountable and responsible for every single member. In my book, Kong Hee is not doing a great job.
The size of a church is more important than single members, which tells me that Kong Hee is on the wrong path.
For me, CHC is a non-Christian church with many genuine Christians, with a very charismatic yet theologically immature and morally questionable teacher focusssed on realizing his personal dreams instead of bringing people closer to God.
This is my personal opinion. I have mine - you have yours.
Thanks to everybody for contributing to this topic. I most certainly learned a lot.
Take care and God bless.
James
HAHAHHAHAHAH omg this must be the funniest shit I've read today
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The CHC sister went on to explain that if we imagine things in the 4th dimension, God will make them happen in the 3D world.
She stressed the importance of having a detailed vision of what we want - the picture must be accurate and complete.
She even gave me an example - I quote her: "If you want a car, it is not good enough to just ask for a car because than God does not know what you want and he cannot provide. However, if you visualize a BMW, colour black, 7-series, preferred license plate, than God knows what you want and will make it happen in the physical 3D world".
She then asked my opinion.
Anyone who comes and tell me this ridiculous crap, I will give that person a tight slap across the face to wake that fucker up from his or her wet dream.
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precisely.
wtf r they talking about.
I am amazed by their story spinning ability
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I re-read that paragraph and I burst out laughing in the office.
LOL
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Funny urh..... I have friends who are with CHC for many years but still taking MRT.
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aiyah their visualisation havent reached the omipresent 4 dimension yet.
And the SOP says need visualis car plate. They didnt do that also la so no choice no car for them
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here's one
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Originally posted by Pinknutri:
Funny urh..... I have friends who are with CHC for many years but still taking MRT.
They have to wait in line lah.
Limited COEs.
Can't have one million people wishing for a car and then Sg gets flooded by one million cars at the same time right?
Even 4th dimension cannot fight with COE rules and regulations.
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James, to put simply, God answers prayers, all of them. But what people fail to appreciate is that that like any other request, He has a right to say No.
You can pray for a car, but God who's aware might say No.
Anyway no point arguing or debating with these fools. Like someone once said -
Never argue with a fool, they will bring you down tot heir level and beat you with experience.
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Why the hell is there this kind of thread?
Who cares about becoming any occult CHC member?
I think me and a lot more pple are rather more interested about 19 ways CAD can land Con Hee in jail.
And speaking about Con Hee, why the F til now still no news?
The case so darn long liao, when can I see the headline
"CHC Pastor Lands His Butt in Jail, His Wife Scheduled for Race in the Turf Club"
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Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:
Anyone who comes and tell me this ridiculous crap, I will give that person a tight slap across the face to wake that fucker up from his or her wet dream.
ha... i so agree with you... and i guess james you are right in that your ex friend has been intoxicated too much to be even objective in his own judging. The mentality of them coming in is not a exchange of faith but a "proving that james is a non believer of faith/troll" they are merely doing it in the name of exchanging of faith/opinion.I believe tht so called faith is already too deeply rooted in them that cannot be removed easily. Proof text reading is always a wrong way to proving but to them its evidence. So i wonder if everyone from CHC visualises and wishes for a BMW Black colour 7 series, wont we be flooded?
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Omg did someone call us fools?
SIGH.
We need bigger mirrors in the world to see who is laughing at who -
Life is surreal.
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if u are against kong hee u are against god
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And what makes you think you are qualified to make that kind of statement ?
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how dare you, satanic follower!