who created God

• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 14:30

  Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

  
  Thanks for answering that question BrolnChrist. And thank you for being here to clearly state the Christianity stance on matters pertaining to GOD. Congratulation on your promotion of being a Moderator within this topic.

  
  Actually there was no promotion at all. You can moderate your own forums and invite others to be co-moderators as well by granting them mod rights. But the mod rights we enjoy are limited. We cannot control it if some big Mod decides to take the thread out of our control by lifting it from my forum and dumping it into another dead forum.
• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 14:36

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  I suggest you go read the world's religion and compare them if you have the time.

  I did, here is my conclusion.

  god is a myth and fallacy. god is invented by man due to fear of the unknown and supernatural and ignorance of the laws of nature. also partly wishful thinking in an eternal happy ever after life in heaven.

  all god religion have their tales of how the world came about etc. all claimed to be the truth. I suggest you use critical thinking and analytical thinking to think about whether god is a myth and fallacy.

  
  I am very skeptical of your claim to have any research on religions and their origins. You have shown no knowledge besides repeating the tiresome slogans that religion arose because of man's fears and he just invented God. Did you just read Freud?
• Jacky Woo

  21 Sep 12, 14:38

  Originally posted by lce:

  God only exist in a progressed society

  
  what you mean by progressed society? backward society?

• lce

  21 Sep 12, 14:39

  Originally posted by BroInChrist:

  
  I am very skeptical of your claim to have any research on religions and their origins. You have shown no knowledge besides repeating the tiresome slogans that religion arose because of man's fears and he just invented God. Did you just read Freud?

  
  tot all religion teachin us GUD but u seems to be spiteful person

  did yr bible taught u tat?

• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 14:41

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  you just have to know the type of society when these religions first sprang up....science and technology were non existent. superstitious beliefs must have reigned during that era, esp god religions. fear and unknown of nature caused man to seek solace in religion. otherwise how you have sun god, moon god, monkey god etc...........also were earthquakes, tsunamis an act of god? people thought they need to appease god, so turn to sacrifises of humans and animals. this is the fear of punishment, hence sin sprung up too.

  
  Just because modern science arose only a few centuries ago does not mean that everyone prior to that were ignorant and superstitious people who just invent deities to believe. You are simply commiting the fallacy of chronological snobbery.
• Jacky Woo

  21 Sep 12, 14:41

  Originally posted by BroInChrist:

  
  I am very skeptical of your claim to have any research on religions and their origins. You have shown no knowledge besides repeating the tiresome slogans that religion arose because of man's fears and he just invented God. Did you just read Freud?

  you should be skeptical of your own religion for a start. you should be tired of the tall tales originated from the Middle East. put on your thinking cap for goodness sake. dun believe everything what the holy book said, use your brain, not your heart.

• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 14:42

  Originally posted by lce:

  
  tot all religion teachin us GUD but u seems to be spiteful person

  did yr bible taught u tat?

  
  Spiteful? How so?
• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 14:43

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  you should be skeptical of your own religion for a start. you should be tired of the tall tales originated from the Middle East. put on your thinking cap for goodness sake. dun believe everything what the holy book said, use your brain, not your heart.

  
  Question begging epithets in your entire reply.
• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 14:58

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  didnt your family threatened to disown when you gave up? say, what makes you gave up your religion, care to share?

  
  No they didn't and they weren't around near me anyway. My late mother passed over in 1994 when I was in Bali. When my eldest brother became a Christian, she was upset at first of course but my parents let him choose his way of life that he wanted for himself. My late father passed over in 2007, I didn't mention to him about my decision. Anyway, I was still serving my prison sentence in 2000 when I made up my mind. However, many Muslim inmates in the old changi prison somehow knew about my direction where I'm going when they started to notice I read non-Islamic books. They looked at me strangely and some even started to hate me. But I ignored them and continue reading those books, Religious and Scientific books. I was released from imprisonment in December 2002. And I've learned my lessons well and crime doesn't pay. If you want to know why I gave up my religion.......its a long story. If you want to know you could actually read about it within this topic that I've written in sg forum. http://sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/252359?page=26
• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 15:00

  Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

  
  No they didn't and they weren't around near me anyway. My late mother passed over in 1994 when I was in Bali. She was upset at first of course but my parents let him choose his way of life that he wanted for himself. My late father passed over in 2007, I didn't mention to him about my decision. Anyway, I was still serving my prison sentence in 2000 when I made up my mind. However, many Muslim inmates in the old changi prison somehow knew about my direction where I'm going when they started to notice I read non-Islamic books. They looked at me strangely and some even started to hate me. But I ignored them and continue reading those books, Religious and Scientific books. I was released from imprisonment in December 2002. And I've learned my lessons well and crime doesn't pay. If you want to know why I gave up my religion.......its a long story. If you want to know you could actually read about it within this topic that I've written in sg forum. http://sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/252359?page=26

  
  
• Jacky Woo

  21 Sep 12, 15:01

  Originally posted by BroInChrist:

  
  Spiteful? How so?

  you didnt get his dig at you obviously..........

• Jacky Woo

  21 Sep 12, 15:04

  Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

  
  No they didn't and they weren't around near me anyway. My late mother passed over in 1994 when I was in Bali. She was upset at first of course but my parents let him choose his way of life that he wanted for himself. My late father passed over in 2007, I didn't mention to him about my decision. Anyway, I was still serving my prison sentence in 2000 when I made up my mind. However, many Muslim inmates in the old changi prison somehow knew about my direction where I'm going when they started to notice I read non-Islamic books. They looked at me strangely and some even started to hate me. But I ignored them and continue reading those books, Religious and Scientific books. I was released from imprisonment in December 2002. And I've learned my lessons well and crime doesn't pay. If you want to know why I gave up my religion.......its a long story. If you want to know you could actually read about it within this topic that I've written in sg forum. http://sgforums.com/forums/12/topics/252359?page=26

  well good on  you. it takes courage for a Muslim to give up religion. If you are in the Middle East, heard that you will be sentenced to death if you are to give up, apostates?

• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 15:21

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  well good on  you. it takes courage for a Muslim to give up religion. If you are in the Middle East, heard that you will be sentenced to death if you are to give up, apostates?

  
  Its not a matter of courage or life and death here. I just have to move on to B after I discover that A is no longer an asset for me to continue my life journey.
• BroInChrist

  21 Sep 12, 16:48

  Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

  you didnt get his dig at you obviously..........

  Guess not.

  Well I think this comes with the territory. When the atheist sees that the Christian can refute and rebutt his arguments against the faith, the atheist must change tactic from attacking the faith to attacking the person, hoping that by somehow discrediting the person the faith can also be discredited as well.

• Aneslayer

  21 Sep 12, 17:09

  Originally posted by BroInChrist:

  Guess not.

  Well I think this comes with the territory. When the atheist sees that the Christian can refute and rebutt his arguments against the faith, the atheist must change tactic from attacking the faith to attacking the person, hoping that by somehow discrediting the person the faith can also be discredited as well.

  
  

  Feign ignorance to shift the focus from self to poison the well... intellectual honesty indeed.... Or just this http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_fallacy

• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 17:52

  We should see at ourselves, then lookup in the Universe and Beyond. Hope you look at it too. HUBBLE TELESCOPE http://hubblesite.org/gallery/ NASA http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/main/index.html
• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 18:06

  Originally posted by despondent:

  eh...searching yes but wad i meant was salvation as a christian dun usually happen thru Man searching for God...nvm, i tink BIC will noe wad i am trying to say...

  i wasnt saying that once one became christian, one stops searching for knowledge...as christians we are encouraged to keep growing in knowledge AFTER receiving salvation...

  
  Like Moses....you mean.
• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 18:14

  Despondent and BrolnChrist, are both you a priest or pastor or someone involve in Christian Organization?
• Miyuki miingguii

  21 Sep 12, 18:41

  .

• Miyuki miingguii

  21 Sep 12, 19:03

  .

• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 23:06

  The question here is Who Created God? Despondent, when you posted this topic, you know this topic will be never ending topic. Its an emphirical question. We need the creation of the Universe to have a 3D world and this will only be materialised from a fourth and fifth dimension and perhaps beyond that before the Universe was formed. About who created God? Well, the word God itself is a creation of early humans when languages begun to form from the vocal sounds and physique gestures of our very ancient and very distant forefathers and mothers in which resulted in communication of the early human habitants from various hunter groups. From there many languages begun to be formulated. As a result, the word God for humans has many terms from myriad of languages derived from myriad of tribes or ethnic/race groups (as we know now) on planet earths. Then many millions years later, Writings were invented by the humans again from the myriad of tribes on earth About God and how it came about on earth? That I need to narrate a story here. Lets say stoneage men saw something bright that was fallen from the sky, then they saw a figure or figures coming out from that fallen object or objects, came to them with special powers that intrigued the mind of the early or stoneage men, helped them or threatened them, these people from out of this planet earth could be regarded as a god or gods, since they have the special powers and flying crafts to mystified the early mankind. Hence, god or gods and religions were formulated from those powerful incidences and contacts throughout the ages. As a result, it became to be a religion to those early men from the undiscovered lands or continents on earth. As for the Semites, it only begun to be in existence 2000 thousand years ago or even more. Similar supernatural incidences and experiences had befallen upon them which resulted in the formation of the semitic religion and their holy scriptures. That semitic religion splinstered due to their own unharmonious understanding within their own religion through time and came to be known as Judism, Christianity and Islam now which spread to other lands and undiscovered continents on earth as we can see now in the present time. That is my opinion and view about god and religion origin on planet earth. You can read The Book Of Enoch for abovementioned matter. http://reluctant-messenger.com/1enoch01-60.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/ Enoch describe god or gods and angels in his book. Elijah and Enoch never die but were taken away by god. As for us now in this advance period, when we see the unidentified flying objects, we see as not supernatural but rather a visit from alien visitor from other planets from outter space. As we know now, we came across many UFO sighting news from the mass media from many countries. "The Unknown Creator" we are talking about is not from those early scriptures that existed on earth but rather before the creation of the universe, the galaxies, the planets and lastly planet earth. That god or those gods that are mention in the holy scriptures were like human...we are made in god image...or maybe different from human. They told that stories to the ancient mankind and hence it was brought down to the present time. I see that Time and Space is one dimension. I think is rational to include it as one more dimension added to the 3D dimension that we see now. Without Time and Space we could not be differentiate the motion of our planet with the solar and with the rest of the galaxies in the universe. Time allows us to see the age in accordance to the 3D (Length, Breath & Height) dimension we have now which formulate the sequence of existence of the Universe. However, I do believe that besides Time and Space, there is another dimension which we cannot see but its there. The Theologians will call it Spiritual realm where dead souls/spirits are dwelling. Like Gravity and Ether, we cannot see it but its there e.g. Oxygen and Light etc except that these elements could only be seen when there is darkness elements, and it could be seen when we use instruments to measure it or produce a tangible material that could be transverse through it. In space/universe dark element could see though the Sun is present.....which the Scientists are trying to make known as one of the causes of the Big Bang theory. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13070896/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/physicists-probe-fifth-dimension/ http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/
• zulkifli mahmood

  21 Sep 12, 23:14

  This is my own writing. The creation of life on earth is still a mystery for many researchers of truth. The truth about the creation of life is still inexplicable for them and they are still searching for the atoms or the God that created life on earth. Many of them whether they are scientists or religious preachers usually make a conclusion that the creation of life must have started when mother earth was formed. The conclusion came about through Science knowledge or by Faith alone. Their conclusions are normally based upon the idea of probabilities, theories, logic and faiths, which have been compiled as their thesis and then converted it into facts or truths. They are not wrong but on the right tracks. That kind of work takes a lot of time since mankind acquired more knowledge throughout the ages. Just like a child playing with his Lego blocks, if ever they managed to break the seal that locked the secrets of creations of life and creates life or personally meet the Creator Himself, they can be considered as gods or viceroys of God. If not, they are just mankind and believers of God. Just like a sculptorÂ’s wishful thoughts of giving Life to their statues if they could and a man eloquently preached GodÂ’s words that healed the hearts and minds of billions. How, where, when and then Life begins is the most extensive mystery that human race is trying to know and learn but many too just believed that God is God and Mankind is Mankind. Since mankind was able to think about the earth, the moon, the sun and the stars, they began to wonder and ponder about the beginning of Life, the meaning of Life, and the ambience around them. These were the causes and effects for them to search the beginning and the meaning of their existence. The early period of mankind life was very different from modern mankind. Most of the early mankind saw their lives full of miseries because it was a very hard life for them. During the primitive period of mankind, they transversed throughout the distant lands for their quest of better and for safer living habitations. They needed to search, hunt and store for food with methods and tools of their own inventions. The climates and living environments were so treacherous at the expense of their own lives being terminated by many untoward incidences that caused many of them to perish. They needed foods and shelters to survive. When they found where they could hunt for more foods, they would settle there until the foods for their survival ran away from them, withered away due to cataclysm and catastrophes caused by Mother EarthÂ’s natural causes and effects or in theological term "Will of God". That kind of life was not an easy life for them but yet they managed to survive until they proliferated into many tribes on earth. In that kind of living environments they probably did not have the time or idea about who they were and where they came from or who created them? Their thoughts were normally survival to remain alive. They were communal tribes and they became stronger and mightier regardless of the circumstances and calamities they had encountered as time moved forward. Their mind was a wonderland for them when they began to look for answers about the world and the constellations. They began to understand more about themselves and the world they lived in. The thoughts of their own wondering manifested into actions, then the cause and effect plans manifested into their lives. Then they progressed through time throughout the ages as mankind after myriad of ideas in their thoughts manifested and materialised into existence in the world of mankind. Images and sounds began to form in their mind, then words and languages manifested. They saw pictures in their mind and started to draw and invent things. That was the way they started to improve their living standards, maintained the securities within their communities and defended themselves from outside threats. "In the beginning there was nothing only emptiness. The nothingness and emptiness began to form into pictures, sounds and words. Then the pictures, sounds and words were inspired into meaningful things and it became flesh. The pictures, sounds and words became languages and new things for mankind to utilise." The inspirations received by mankind throughout the ages, accounted for all the knowledge and inventions we see now and some are not seen yet because it is not the right time for mankind to know and see. When you understand how your mind works it will teach you many new knowledge and new things. This is the way mankind ameliorated to become mankind of today.
• zulkifli mahmood

  22 Sep 12, 03:40

  Many years ago I read a book call 'Chariots Of The Gods' by Erich Von Daniken. CHARIOTS OF THE GODS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJmzWlNA9A DID ALIENS BRING RELIGION TO EARTH? http://www.ufobc.ca/Reports/aliensreligion.htm
• lce

  22 Sep 12, 08:36

  Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

  Many years ago I read a book call ‘Chariots Of The Gods’ by Erich Von Daniken.

  CHARIOTS OF THE GODS
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJmzWlNA9A

  DID ALIENS BRING RELIGION TO EARTH?
  http://www.ufobc.ca/Reports/aliensreligion.htm

  ancient astronaut - full of craps but interestng

• despondent

  22 Sep 12, 13:11

  thanks zulkifli for sharing...when i started this topic it was more to explain that it was a flawed qn to ask a creationist since God is affirmed to be infinite...also, to further emphasise that for this qn to be a valid one, God would then have to be a finite god...

  the objective is not to even try to provide a definitive answer to the qn but rather to show that this qn if its ever asked, shld be directed to the believers of a finite god and NOT to the believers of an infinite God...whether God exists or not is irrelevant here...