Efforts to clean up sleaze in Joo Chiat
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Some Joo Chiat residents are taking the initiative to clean up their neighbourhood by appealing to the authorities. But their progress seems to be hindered by a syndicate of sleaze-operators. Seems to me that S'pore is gonna become the next Patpong if we don't do something about it....
Here is a report of the "Save Joo Chiat" effort......
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Dear Joo Chiat Residents and Supporters,
On 1 Jan 2005, we wrote to you to outline our meeting with MP Chan and his
grassroots leaders on 29 Dec 2004.
Well, we now have both good news and bad news.
The Good News:
A number of Anti-Vice raids have taken place in the last few weeks, resulting in
a great reduction of foreign prostitutes visibly operating on Joo Chiat Road.
Following proposals from the Save Joo Chiat Work Group (“SJC”), the police have confirmed that a freeze has been put in place on the issue of new licences for pubs, bars and ktv lounges. This may not sound much, as the numbers are already so large and there is not much room for more, but it is a good start nevertheless. Following a query from us, the police have also confirmed that raids will continue to take place in Joo Chiat, and that the police are:
“in fact monitoring the situation very closely. The numbers of foreign women
have dwindled considerably since (the police) started strict enforcement and the few women present in the vicinity have been observed closely. They were observed to be eating at the coffeeshops with known parties and not loitering for the purposes of soliciting. Enforcement will continue for as long as required. There is no timetable for enforcement to cease.”
The latest in a series of raids took place on 13 Jan 2005 at a massage parlour
opposite the Cashman and Tiger pubs, where women were taken away in 2 vans by Anti-Vice.
The Bad News:
While the police raids have helped, the battle is not over as the pub, bar, ktv
lounges, and massage parlour owners (“Bar and Massage Operators”) are hitting back. On 13 Jan 2005, MP Chan, his grassroots leaders, and representatives from the police met more than 100 Joo Chiat business
owners and their supporters. We learnt that the overwhelming majority of these were Bar and Massage Operators, and they were openly voicing their displeasure at the recent police and anti-vice raids. This apparently very lively meeting lasted more than 3 hours, and the complaints of these Bar and Massage Operators ran along these (paraphrased) lines:
1) "Who says these activities are new to Joo Chiat? Things have always been this way - it is nothing new!"
2) "How else do you think Joo Chiat will stay vibrant? It is thanks to our bars
and pubs that this place is so vibrant!"
3) "These damned raids are affecting our business livelihood - they must stop
frightening away customers!"
4) "The raids were conducted very unprofessionally. The police burst in and
rugby-tackle our lady customers, scaring the daylights out of everybody!"
What Does this Meeting tell us?
It tells us that these Bar and Massage Operators are very well-organised. It
also tells us that they are so united in their cause that they are able to pull together an impressive turnout of 100 or more people. But best of all, it tells us that they are also hurting from the raids and are upset enough that they are determined to defend their livelihood.
We cannot fail to be impressed by the Bar and Massage OperatorsÂ’ turnout, and can only hope that when our time comes around, Joo Chiat residents and supporters will not let us down!
A New Development
There is also a further development. We had mentioned in our last update that MP Chan had proposed setting up what we understood to be a neighbourhood watch programme to augment police efforts in Joo Chiat. MP Chan had invited the Save Joo Chiat Work Group to elect 3 representatives
for this programme which is called CSSP, or Community, Safety and Security
Programme. The Work Group has been considering this proposal as it is not entirely clear to us what a CSSP can do which the authorities currently cannot.
However, as we were considering this proposal, we learnt that MP Chan has
invited, and obtained, 3 such CSSP representatives from those who attended the 13 Jan 2005 “business” group meeting. The intention is to ensure the CSSP represents the community. It is now our understanding that two pub
owners as well as a food stall operator have been elected to represent the
business group.
It would be ridiculous if the CSSP “business” representatives are connected to
the pub and massage parlour businesses. They want the raids to stop. We however want them to continue until all sleaze and vice are wiped out from Joo Chiat. We cannot see how Bar and Massage Operators would
ever agree to stopping the vice and sleaze. It is after all their bread and
butter.
So far, as you know, we have tried our best to co-operate with MP Chan and the agencies. However, we still have not received answers from MP Chan as to what the CSSP is really about, and how it is meant to be a means to solve Joo ChiatÂ’s sleaze and vice problem. MP ChanÂ’s latest recruitment of
CSSP representatives also troubles us greatly. As such, we have not yet been
able to accept MP ChanÂ’s invitation to elect 3 representatives to the CSSP until the situation is clearer.
With this latest development, we find ourselves at a crossroad. Other than what the police have recently confirmed about the freeze on new licences and the continuance of raids, we also have not received concrete measures from any agency to end Joo ChiatÂ’s sleaze and vice problem.
Our Next Step:
To enable us to proceed further in our goal of ending the sleaze and vice in Joo
Chiat, we need:
1. Confirmation from MP Chan and the authorities that they share this goal and will work unhesitatingly towards this; and
2. Clear and sustainable measures for the short, medium and long term from MP Chan and the authorities to achieve this goal;
Equally important is the unfailing support of as many Joo Chiat residents and
supporters - now that you know how united and supportive the Bar and Massage Operators are, please give the SJC a ten-fold support in our mutual cause!
One very effective way to clearly show MP Chan and the authorities that Joo
Chiat residents and supporters are against sleaze and vice in Joo Chiat is to turn up in numbers of strength at the next meeting with MP Chan and the authorities. The Work Group is also currently considering other options.
For us to achieve our ultimate goal, we need you to help us. Please confirm:
a. if we arrange a meeting with MP Chan and the authorities, whether you and your family members, relatives and friends will attend; and
b. if youÂ’ve not already done so, that you can help us expand our database by letting us have the names of your family members, relatives and friends who are supporters of our cause to save Joo Chiat.
We need your replies very, very soon so that we too can gauge whether our cause is truly backed by the numbers that we believe are there. This is your fight too, so please, if you believe that we can work together to save Joo Chiat, now is the time for you to act! Without your support, the Work Group is unlikely to succeed since the other side is already geared up and well organized.
With your support, we have a good chance. Otherwise, the Save Joo Chiat cause will just evaporate and the vice and sleaze will continue, and probably worsen.
Thanks!
Save Joo Chiat Work Group
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I like Joo Chiat cos there are many good food outlets selling otah, porridge, bar ku teh, pepper crab + the quaint Peranakan hses., hope they clean up the place cos there are more condos coming up.
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clean up the sleaze and vice...please lah, if there's demand there will always be supply.
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i hope things get worse in joo chiat.
so i can visit there to see more prostitute.
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Originally posted by digicharat:
i hope things get worse in joo chiat.
so i can visit there to see more prostitute. 
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well even if the public service didn't clean up properly I am sure we will read reports of how hardworking these public officials are working on the matter and then declare success. Next the matter will die down and everything is covered up while Joo Chiat is the net Geylang.
Joo Chiat should just sumbit to fate lah, the rot already settle in liao. These are foreign "talents" what! Our smart local men are so eager to support fully these Foreign "Talents" with cash, house, food and everything else. Might as well just convert Singapore into Geylang lorong 69 lah. Forget it liao. All of us move to Ubin or Tekong can already. -
from the 60's till today traditionally Joo Chiat area has always been a hotbed for these kinds of activities.
You clean up the sleaze, the sleaze will start to move into your neighbourhoods you want that?
Leave the sleaze alone. -
Chey!Originally posted by KumSioJui:from the 60's till today traditionally Joo Chiat area has always been a hotbed for these kinds of activities.
You clean up the sleaze, the sleaze will start to move into your neighbourhoods you want that?
Leave the sleaze alone.
I used to live along Little india. The sleeze came 10 years ago with the PRC dirt! The whole country is infested liao. Maybe Joo Chiat people more garang like the "special" family lah. Think they are being infested only. -
It's not only PRC women, there are vietnamese, filipinos even malays from overseas now throng Joo Chiat area. But of course PRC women are more crafty and clever, the tactics they use like "home delivery service", or using roving taxi drivers as lookouts and as quick escape vehicles among other tactics are starting to baffle the anti vice.Originally posted by mistyblue:Chey!
I used to live along Little india. The sleeze came 10 years ago with the PRC dirt! The whole country is infested liao. Maybe Joo Chiat people more garang like the "special" family lah. Think they are being infested only.
The government is playing a balancing act, on 1 hand they are saying "Peidu Mama" cannot work within the first year to appease the people, on other hand they relax the rules making it easier to allow in PRC visitors to appease China.
The AV folks of course have their balls tied to their hands lah. The more they catch and deport, the more they keep coming back, the minute these women land back in china they just need to get a new passport and airticket and they are back. If they allow freelance hookers(mostly PRC) to operate in Geylang the legal tax paying brothel owners complain. So they chase the PRC out only to have them invade the heartlands then the people will start to complain also. Fighting an endless battle, a chicken and egg situation if you ask me.
Since the government is the one that started all this they should designate an area to allow all these activities to flourish. Maybe Sentosa since that is going to become a Big Sin City soon move all the prostitution activities there.
Otherwise this thing will be endless. -
The AV folks of course have their balls tied to their hands lah. The more they catch and deport, the more they keep coming back, the minute these women land back in china they just need to get a new passport and airticket and they are back. If they allow freelance hookers(mostly PRC) to operate in Geylang the legal tax paying brothel owners complain. So they chase the PRC out only to have them invade the heartlands then the people will start to complain also. Fighting an endless battle, a chicken and egg situation if you ask me.
Simple solution........ TAX THEM AND LEGALISED THEM....... Everyone will be happy -
Originally posted by LuNAtIcfArKeR:
you can tax and legalise it but the problem is residents will not be happy if people can buy sex at the coffeeshop or void deck mamak stall. Just think of the kind of Chee Ko Pek's you will be encouraging to hangout around the neighbourhoods.
[b]Simple solution........ TAX THEM AND LEGALISED THEM....... Everyone will be happy [/b]
Also which freelance will want to be labelled as a prostitute? they more likely want to operate on anonymity. I don't think they want to pay taxes also.
The best way is to raid and raid until these illegal hookers end up in the designated area then you stop raiding. So that automatically everyday they will go there and nowhere else to conduct their sleaze. -
The gov is fighting a losing battle anyway.... so why not make the best out of it?
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if the sleaze don't move, then u move.
if u don't want to move, then remove the supply. Chop off the penises of men who patronise the foreign talent. -
Then we will have a nation of penis-less menOriginally posted by Farmer Brown:if the sleaze don't move, then u move.
if u don't want to move, then remove the supply. Chop off the penises of men who patronise the foreign talent.
Really, the local policies on prc is too lax. The Govt like to 3 leg all of us lah and its back fired on the people loh. But then the govt all live in luxurious places, so why they worry. US and Europe has strict rules about allowing these 3rd world residents into their country.
One suggestion lah. Chase them all to Oxley Road and East Coast lah. Make them loiter around the Ministers residences loh. When the ministers feel the pain, then they will take action, if not, they bo chap lah. -
Well I think it all boils down to whether or not the government really wants to do anything about it. They cleaned up the sleaze in bugis street with relative east and somewhat reduced the eyesore of changi village. Joo Chiat shouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of whether our authorities bother...
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I think one way that will work is to fine heftily the men caught patronizing illegal hookers........perhaps a sum of $1000 plus. And also to publicise their names or make them do some form of community service....like CWO.....
Penalties like this surely will solve the problem.....cos it will lessen demand....and no demand, means no supply......
Anyway, I don't see why hookers have to go work in Joo Chiat or in residential areas.......isn't there an "allocated sleaze spot" for them in Geylang. Allowing them free rein in non-designated places like Joo Chiat will only allow the cancer to spread.
Of cos the authorities are unlikely to impose such harsh penalties on the men caught.....at most only a warning....becos they don't want to reduce popular support........
Just goes to show that all those talk about us being a "conservative Asian society" is just a load of bullshine..... -
#1 I think no guy will ever admit they are soliciting for sex on the streets. No pros will admit they are pushing prostitution on the streets either. It is illegal, they all know it and they act fast to get out before getting caught. When the police just raided Geylang, they all siam the place for about 2 weeks and now they are back in business. I know cause my bus goes through the area.Originally posted by Ibram Gaunt:I think one way that will work is to fine heftily the men caught patronizing illegal hookers........perhaps a sum of $1000 plus. And also to publicise their names or make them do some form of community service....like CWO.....
Penalties like this surely will solve the problem.....cos it will lessen demand....and no demand, means no supply......
Anyway, I don't see why hookers have to go work in Joo Chiat or in residential areas.......isn't there an "allocated sleaze spot" for them in Geylang. Allowing them free rein in non-designated places like Joo Chiat will only allow the cancer to spread.
Of cos the authorities are unlikely to impose such harsh penalties on the men caught.....at most only a warning....becos they don't want to reduce popular support........
Just goes to show that all those talk about us being a "conservative Asian society" is just a load of bullshine.....
#2 Why stay in "allocated" places wiht high competition and risk being caught for illegal hawking of their illegal services when they can roam the whole country. Besides, the country has loose policing as people are all hoodwinked into thinking its safe in singapore and singapore don't need that many police force. You think only Joo Chiat? Seriously have a walk around Chinatown, and Little India or even my current east side of the country and I see them loitering around and talking to old men. The hookers are not just limited to PRC, the indonesians/phillipine maid and whatever you can find are also having a go at it. Its everywhere.
#3 Money? Its no pain. They can afford to keep these women as mistresses and buy them private housing, pay all their bills and fork out for their entertainment. You see where all that money is going? You think 1000 is big enough? Besides, many of these men are business men with loads of spare cash to burn and they can buy their names out of the list (do not think it does not happen, I had been threatened by my previous PRC tenant with a kid and family back in China and her family man Lover that he will sue me if I leak out anything.). Its easy to catch the low class man, but its hard to catch the rich men who has the cash to buy through all the law.
#4 China people think that being liberal is to go along with their personal pleasure. Conservative is a word that is used now to describe dead people. I had a shocking conversation with an ex colleague who worked with PRC. She said that she has a couple of PRC colleagues who are married. But both Partners betrayed each other by keeping several mistresses or men around themselves and freely have sex with these multiple partners. They even saw nothing wrong with the whole arrangement and said its common in China. To them marriage is just a convenience farce that can be just as easily ended and they feel that they are liberal people and thus should also be liberal in being permiscuious since its pleasurable and harming no one.
To me, its all in the way the laws/policies is laid down and how it is enforced. we had let in all the rotten things. You think its easy to clean up rot? Bugis was easy cause it was years back and its just local folks you can easily put them away. Now you are dealing with foreigners who don't have to obey your country's law and can easily come back with fake ids. Fact is, we have a lot of unsolved rape/murder cases and chances are its the foreigners who done it. But how do we catch them when our laws does not apply to them but we, locals pay the penality for it. -
Who said foreigners don't have to obey local laws? Look what happened to Michael Fay... We caned him like Clinton was a babbling fool... LOL
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Look what happened to Michael Fay... We caned him like Clinton was a babbling fool... LOL
If my memory serves me right he did in the end get the number of caning times reduced rite? Think it will be reduced if you are of other poorer countries? And what do we get when he is back in the US? He is still that defiant of course and brag about ill treatment blah blah blah.
Sometimes we got to bow to reality. Beat dog must see the owner. For his case, the owner quite influential in the world. Afterall without UN consent can invade Iraq he is indeed powerful figure -
Muahaha "beat dog must see owner" is a good way of putting it.
But don't beat dogs ok.....dogs are cute....must love animals....
I personally think, Joo Chiat may be hard to be cleaned. Coz although there are illegal activites but also a lot of legal ones. All mixed liao. Like for example, pubs, karaokes, lounges, etc. They have their permits, right? So how to move them? -
Joo Chiat will soon become the No 2 Geylang...
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election coming there will be a lot of raids. after tat .....
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no need election to have raids lah.Originally posted by crazy monkey:election coming there will be a lot of raids. after tat .....
just before any festive public holiday RAID!
just before any big foreign visitor come RAID!
just before garmen pay aws to civil servant RAID! -
cannot raid to often lah wait the operators no $$ left to pay kopi lui.Originally posted by KumSioJui:no need election to have raids lah.
just before any festive public holiday RAID!
just before any big foreign visitor come RAID!
just before garmen pay aws to civil servant RAID!
Raid for wayang onli.
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What has Singapore becomes, a sex-city with the authority's aprroval of more budget hotels, more massage centres (cover-up of a prostitution den), more KTV lounge - all these are similar to Hadyai. Coming to town soon, a CASINO, another negativities will be added. We have also attracted alot of undesirables, many PRC girls came here to become illegal "permanent resident".