Time to stop patronizing Japanese restaurants
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It saddens me to know that many people here are rather naive,
and do not understand the reasons/effect of boycotting jap products.
My comments on...
On the comment "If not for Japan, we will not be what we are now?"
How could some of u said such a thing.
many lives were lost during the war.
We should not even consider any post-war economy benefits at all!?!?
Its inhuman.
Those who said such a statment better reflect ur tots.
Moreoever, the jap economy blossom only bcos they were eager
to gain back their pride after having to quit the war
due to US A-bomb pressure.
Punishment over and Lessons learnt?
Some of u said the japanese had learn their lessons from the A-Bomb.
Consider a bad student who bullied another weaker student.
and is being punished.
After the punishment, the teacher ask him if he has reflected
his wrong doing and apologise to the bullied student.
He said no. Think abt this.
And the real case here is like someone who had torture/rape/killed
others and feel proud of it.
A-Bomb purpose
Like what some had said, it was a desparate measure.
The US president then made the tough decision.
No sane country would do so to warn others
or whoever its powers by taking more lives.
And dun forget US was part of the Allied forces.
Boycotting
The boycotting in China is a form of protest, and showing of
disapprovement of issues by the public who would otherwise
have ineffective voices.
Some of u said the japanese companies and resturant owners
were not the one who killed during the war.
And some mentioned of its effect on economy
However, in war and nationalism,
the whole country incl companies are often seen as whole
while politics and economy and takes later place
and it takes a dignified person to boycott as a show of protest.
Few can see this since spore is small country w little history.
And sporeans are lik wat other mentioned: pragmatically self-centred.
so much so and has little or no dignity.
In my view, someone who wish to protest yet do no want to boycott
just becos they do no wish to lose their sony,
is like a child who continue to buy sweets from a murderer. -
but what did the japanese cooks do? all they're trying to do is make a deccent living by preparing food..its not like they killed your grandparents, how do u even know they're not remourseful? most of them just wanna do their job not get involved in these political conflicts.
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so what if they started the war, they've contributed so much more to the world than they had destroyed, true that their forefathers started the war, but that was already back in ancient tiems when technology was not as advanced, their thinking are not as sensible as we are today. the new jap generation may not know of what horrible things their ancestors did, but isnt it better that way? ppl hv said that they hv forgiven but did not forget, don forgive means to nv bring it up agn, by bombing them means they've received their punishment, what is this now? punishment round 2?
even if there really is gonna be fighting, u ask ppl these days if they know anything abt volunteering for the army, they would say nth even if they did, who would wanto fight agn after all the bs thats happen.
and cmon lets face it, we need the japs, how many of u drive toyotas, use jap made appliances etc etc? afterall what we learnt in history txtbks says that hitler started the war and were recruiting allies, so shouldnt u blame russia instead? -
wah piang. thread so many pages already... no patient to read, just wanna post my 2 cent worth
actually the japs wanna to change their education text change loh, as long as the other countries don't change can liao, dun think the others countries that suffered under the jap invasion will change this history in their book. Majority win mah ahahahaa
it will be more shameful when their generations educate through their modified textbook find out on their own the fact that their govt trying to hide or reduce the truth that was done in the past...
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Protest is not to blame the young generation of japanese.
It is to seek an answer and apology for those who had suffered.
If everyone in this world think like some of u do,
then who is going to help seek answers for those had died innocently.
Does it mean whoever that died in war are just worthless souls. right?
In spore, many people only care about their own bussiness.
If every citizen thinks like that, and there is a war in spore right now,
I dun think joining the army and fighting for these people is worth it.
Cos when these courageous army guys die, no one would give a damn?!?
Or rather, if any innocents gets tortured and died in a war right here in spore,
I think sporeans will simply think luckily its not them. How sad?!?
Back to the issue, personally i feel boycotting has no effect in spore.
Whereas in china, there definitely is. -
haa... actually i agree.Originally posted by freekick:wah piang. thread so many pages already... no patient to read, just wanna post my 2 cent worth
actually the japs wanna to change their education text change loh, as long as the other countries don't change can liao, dun think the others countries that suffered under the jap invasion will change this history in their book. Majority win mah ahahahaa
it will be more shameful when their generations educate through their modified textbook find out on their own the fact that their govt trying to hide or reduce the truth that was done in the past...
infact its already 50 yrs... any apology will already be too late.
In the hearts and minds of millions of chinese and koreans,
the Japanese had been convicted as guilty.
Nothing can change that. -
Originally posted by mujiland:
Mujiland, most of the Chinese and Koreans have also never seen or read the textbooks, but they have seen or read the news like the article mentioned in another thread.
but i dun read japanese and never seen or read the books, have you?
In a nutshell, below are the modifications made to latest editions of the textbooks on the Sino-Japanese war, as compared to the less distorted previous editions:
1. "Comfort women" (female sex slaves of mostly Chinese and Korean origin who were forced to serve as "public toilets" for the Japanese army in the field) is now omitted.
2. Forced Asian labour brought to Japan is now voluntary Asian labour.
3. Death toll in Rape of Nanjing is now trivialised from figures to "many".
Some may side with the Japanese and find these modifications trivial, but to those whose fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters have suffered or sacrificed under the boot of the Japanese imperial army, such modification of historical facts is an affront to their families.Originally posted by mujiland:
I don't think the Chinese and Koreans are freezing themselves in time and getting worked up over something that is long dead and buried. As I've also pointed out in this thread, when the Japanese government alter history to suit their political purpose, teach their young such distorted history, and these young grow up to be the next generations of Japan leaders, it becomes a genuine concern for the neighbouring countries.
why freeze ourselves in time just to wonder what and why, shouldn't we be moving on and stop worrying about history?
Recent history has shown us, both in Communist China and Nazi Germany, how powerful education can be when manipulated to be a twisted political tool, and none of us wants to see history repeating itself in the form of an expansionist Japan. One way of preventing the effect from happening in the future is to stop the possible cause in the present. -
This will nebber be revealed in Japanese histroy books.Originally posted by James1:I remember once visited to the old folks home about a year ago at singapore leperscy home (dont really know how 2 spell, sorry abt tt), one indian woman told me about her tale during her days at WWII, she got her entire finger cut off by the japanese soldier and then rape her, she was then 6 years old. -
Think most are Singaporeans, but some might have Japanese interests.Originally posted by dragg:is it true that people in this forum are not necessarily in singapore? -
I think you made a grave mistake. There is nothing about pro or anti China here. It is all about Japanese history books.Originally posted by dragg:so some of those who are very pro-china in this forum could be writing from china -
Good to know that the world has responded:
Do you think Japan should become a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council?
Yes 2% 79077 votes
No 98% 3758310 votes
Total: 3837387 votes
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/10/china.japan.protest/index.html -
Originally posted by NuLife:
are you a singaporean? it is you and you ilk that should reflect your thoughts. you are sitting at the sidelines with no action, just talk only. it is always easy to suggest/support/verbally advocate such drastic actions. if the protest happens right at your doorstep or people start smashing up your restaurant and/or beat up your love ones i am sure you will regret terribly.by then tell me you are not pragmatic, not self-centred and have a lot of dignity.
It saddens me to know that many people here are rather naive,
and do not understand the reasons/effect of boycotting jap products.
My comments on...
i am sure many of us understands the reasons for the boycott. this issue is nothing new. don't jump to conclusion and start calling people naive. everybody see things differently. your views are just your personal opinions.
[b]On the comment "If not for Japan, we will not be what we are now?"
How could some of u said such a thing.
many lives were lost during the war.
the war ended 60 yrs ago. get this into your head. you are living in the past. if all the countries involved in WWII (or any other wars) think like you do there will never be world peace. we will have fighting everywhere, everyday. people will all live with hatred and fear. learn to appreciate peace. we have never been involved in a war or a major bloodshed i am sure nobody wants to live with that type of experience.
We should not even consider any post-war economy benefits at all!?!?
Its inhuman.
so we are talking humanity here? then how does all these protest justify your concept of humanity? protest will only lead to more tensions and even possible bloodshed. it is true that japan is guilty of war atrocities but its post-war economic contribution is also another fact. are you and your family not one of the beneficaries? think of the peace and good life you are enjoying. don't take it for granted.
Those who said such a statment better reflect ur tots.
Moreoever, the jap economy blossom only bcos they were eager
to gain back their pride after having to quit the war
due to US A-bomb pressure.
Punishment over and Lessons learnt?
Some of u said the japanese had learn their lessons from the A-Bomb.
Consider a bad student who bullied another weaker student.
and is being punished.
After the punishment, the teacher ask him if he has reflected
his wrong doing and apologise to the bullied student.
He said no. Think abt this.
this is a poor comparison. the war ended 60 years ago. most of the people involved in the war are either dead or nearly there. the new generation has nothing to do with the war.
And the real case here is like someone who had torture/rape/killed
others and feel proud of it.
it is only a minority.
A-Bomb purpose
Like what some had said, it was a desparate measure.
The US president then made the tough decision.
No sane country would do so to warn others
or whoever its powers by taking more lives.
And dun forget US was part of the Allied forces.
Boycotting
The boycotting in China is a form of protest, and showing of
disapprovement of issues by the public who would otherwise
have ineffective voices.
Some of u said the japanese companies and resturant owners
were not the one who killed during the war.
And some mentioned of its effect on economy
However, in war and nationalism,
the whole country incl companies are often seen as whole
are we in a war now? a protest hardly makes a war.
while politics and economy and takes later place
and it takes a dignified person to boycott as a show of protest.
are you there in china protesting now? there are 1.2 billion people in china. how many do you think is involved in the protest? so majority of the china population has no dignity too. right?
Few can see this since spore is small country w little history.
And sporeans are lik wat other mentioned: pragmatically self-centred.
so much so and has little or no dignity.
In my view, someone who wish to protest yet do no want to boycott
just becos they do no wish to lose their sony,
is like a child who continue to buy sweets from a murderer.
[/b]
you commented that singaporean have little or no dignity. i strongly suggest that you keep such opinions to yourself. people have different take on things like naivety and dignity. what works for you does not necessarily works for others.
since you have so much dignity practise what you preach. make sure you get rid of all things japanese. move your ass over to china and join in the protest to prove your point. then we, the pragmatic/self-centred/little or no dignity singaporeans will really know you are whom you professed to be. -
your comment is totally uncalled for. it is such a cheap shot. just because people dont agree with you dont mean they have japanese interest.Originally posted by PoRen:Think most are Singaporeans, but some might have Japanese interests.
i, for one, do not agree with your views on this issue -
LaserLordz has already pointed out that this textbook was rejected by the majority in the past. This only 1 of 8 ministry-approved textbooks. The district education panel has a choice in which textbook they choose. And as your article points out, even if the district panel chose that particular book, some schools chose to reject it.Originally posted by Tuatau:I don't think the Chinese and Koreans are freezing themselves in time and getting worked up over something that is long dead and buried. As I've also pointed out in this thread, when the Japanese government alter history to suit their political purpose, teach their young such distorted history, and these young grow up to be the next generations of Japan leaders, it becomes a genuine concern for the neighbouring countries.
Recent history has shown us, both in Communist China and Nazi Germany, how powerful education can be when manipulated to be a twisted political tool, and none of us wants to see history repeating itself in the form of an expansionist Japan. One way of preventing the effect from happening in the future is to stop the possible cause in the present.
And if you guys are truly concerned about education in foreign countries, why don't you protest about the lack of education about the Tianenmen Square incident, Tibet's claims, etc..... Tell me which country does not interpret history in the way that suits their political purpose??
And does your knowledge come solely from textbooks?? Plslah, there is always news in the internet, Wikipedia, forums, the emergence of blogmedia and there is always the traditional international newspaper and magazines and books written by outside historians.
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=1301
http://www.indiana.edu/~japan/Digests/textbook.html -
Originally posted by kheldorin:
In case you have not noticed, the year is now 2005.
LaserLordz has already pointed out that this textbook was rejected by the majority in the past. This only 1 of 8 ministry-approved textbooks. The district education panel has a choice in which textbook they choose. And as your article points out, even if the district panel chose that particular book, some schools chose to reject it.
LaserLordz did direct us to an article written by an American professor sponsored by a Japanese organisation, but it was written in 2001. (This issue has already been addressed in another thread, though there was a BBC article that did not seem to support it.) That year, the schools only rejected 1 as they had many others to choose from.
4 years have gone by since then, and the government has released a list of approved textbooks, most of which (according to a Japanese correspondent in the online edition of the International Herald Tribune newspaper on April 7 2005) "reflect what many in and outside Japan see as a further shift to the right."
How an article written in 2001 could be used as a basis to forecast events happening in 2005, I do not know. But I do know that my recent posts have pointed to news articles -- any reader could click on the links to read for themselves if they're bothered -- and they're not from Xinhua news agency. If you think what I have written comes from a textbook, pray tell how you managed to conceive the fascinating idea that I could quote, from a textbook, things that were written only a few days ago.Originally posted by kheldorin:
Wrong analogy. A country may tailor its own textbooks, it may downplay the body count of its own civil wars, that is its own business. However, when it trivialises the death tolls of the other countries it invaded in attempt to hide its shame, that is no longer its own business but a flagrant display of utter disrespect for those countries.
And if you guys are truly concerned about education in foreign countries, why don't you protest about the lack of education about the Tianenmen Square incident, Tibet's claims, etc..... Tell me which country does not interpret history in the way that suits their political purpose?? -
Unfortunately, you are in the minority.Originally posted by dragg:your comment is totally uncalled for. it is such a cheap shot. just because people dont agree with you dont mean they have japanese interest.
i, for one, do not agree with your views on this issue -
are you sure? do you mean to say most people agree that protest is the right way to go?Originally posted by PoRen:Unfortunately, you are in the minority. -
So far, what you have been saying is that we do nothing about it, and that we should thank Japan for all of her post-war economic contributions.Originally posted by dragg:are you sure? do you mean to say most people agree that protest is the right way to go? -
Seriously...as long as japan doesn't hurt anyone..in the future...
i think we should forgive it and let the history go...
world peace!
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you are not answering my questionOriginally posted by PoRen:So far, what you have been saying is that we do nothing about it, and that we should thank Japan for all of her post-war economic contributions. -
It's better to have more friends then enemies...
right now , its doing neither side any good.. -
x2Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Seriously...as long as japan doesn't hurt anyone..in the future...
i think we should forgive it and let the history go...
world peace!
appreciate peace. dont support trouble makers -
too bad some people just dont see it this way. they think protest will make japan come to their senses. if only it is that simple...Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:It's better to have more friends then enemies...
right now , its doing neither side any good.. -
PoRen,
why do you think japan started WWII?