Chu-Han Contention
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Since everyone know about the ROTK so much, I bet few people know about the Chu-Han fight which last 5 years and ended at Jiuli Shan
The King of Chu Xiang Yu and King of Han Liu Bang are both sworn brothers but Liu Bang was forced to attack Xiang Yu after they signed a peace treay by Han Xin the then Commander in chief
This battle brought about many proverbs such as Si Mian Chu Ge which meant trapped in or something
And another one called Sheng Yu Xiao He Bai Yu Xiao He, Meaning you were made big and destroyed by the same person
or something like that -
I think if not for the period dramas like Chu Han Jiao Xiong or Han Wu Da Di, i prolly wouldnt be fascinated by the history around some periods
TV always keep repeating productions like Kang Xi or Qin Shi Huang -
this fight occurs before or after the 3 kingdoms period?
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Chu Han Contention begun before the Han Dynasty, when the first Han Emperor Gao set up the Han Dynasty
Three Kingdoms happened at the end of the Han Dynasty, four hundred years later -
lolx,this guy probally watches the SCV Channel 55 show Chu Han Jiao Xiong and thinks he know it all...
Btw,it is not si mian chu ge
It's SHI MIAN MAI FU
too much jay chou eh?
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its bothOriginally posted by pig007:lolx,this guy probally watches the SCV Channel 55 show Chu Han Jiao Xiong and thinks he know it all...
Btw,it is not si mian chu ge
It's SHI MIAN MAI FU
shi mian mai fu is used to refer to Han Xin laying so many ambushes for the fleeing Chu troops
si mian chu ge is when Han Xin demoralised the Chu troops by getting some musicians play Chu songs, songs that remind the Chu troops of their homelands -
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blur leh can giv time frame exact?
after christ before christ stone age iron age golden age when
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i'm sure si mian chu ge has nothing to do with trapping the troopsOriginally posted by laurence82:its both
shi mian mai fu is used to refer to Han Xin laying so many ambushes for the fleeing Chu troops
si mian chu ge is when Han Xin demoralised the Chu troops by getting some musicians play Chu songs, songs that remind the Chu troops of their homelands -
of cuz not, its to demoralise the troop....Originally posted by pig007:i'm sure si mian chu ge has nothing to do with trapping the troops -
Then Agenda obviously was not well-informed bout all these gave us the wrong info
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Around 200 years before Christ.Originally posted by newmanmback:blur leh can giv time frame exact?
after christ before christ stone age iron age golden age when
The time of Christ was during the transition between Western and Eastern Han. -
This is referring to Xiang Yu right?Originally posted by Agenda:And another one called Sheng Yu Xiao He Bai Yu Xiao He, Meaning you were made big and destroyed by the same person or something like that
I vaguely remember Xiao He was Liu Bang's advisor? So how did Xiao He help Xiang Yu? -
There's a HK TVB series "The Conqueror's tale" acted by Adam Cheng and Jiang Hua. This series very nice, show the story behind the Chu-Han war
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my advice is see those shows see the actor actresses not too engross wif the stories...coz most the story edited before presentationover the air...esp hk ones.
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Dude, Are you stupid or what? Xiang Yu and friends were trapped in by Han Xin with no way out and this was furthur damaged when he played Chu music to remind them of their homeland, All these can be easily found in Wikipedia.. No point watching TV because most of the time I dota-ingOriginally posted by pig007:Then Agenda obviously was not well-informed bout all these gave us the wrong info
Hence Si Mian Chu Ge was meant to refer as surrounded wich also meant trapped.. D'oh
The Xiao He part was how he advised Liu Bang to make Han Xin CIC then later on plotted his death
The only reason Han dynasty became big because the Queen and the crown prince die then the next in line Emperor made a lot of improvements hence with Ming and Tang, Han became one of the golden age of China -
Oh ya that one is referring to Han Xin not Xiang Yu.Originally posted by Agenda:The Xiao He part was how he advised Liu Bang to make Han Xin CIC then later on plotted his death
Thanks for the reminder.
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Here
An idiom that referred to his being surrounded at Gaixia is "surrounded by Chu music" (simian Chuge, Žl–Ê‘^‰Ì), which refers to a desperate situation without allies -
But Si Mian Chu Ge is DEFINITELY an idiom...i remember clearly learning this in chinese textbook in sec3!!Originally posted by pig007:i'm sure si mian chu ge has nothing to do with trapping the troops
I think the origin said is also correct. -
i support you, Agenda. Dont worry.
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Actually, the crown prince did became Emperor, Emperor Hui as we call him.Originally posted by Agenda:Dude, Are you stupid or what? Xiang Yu and friends were trapped in by Han Xin with no way out and this was furthur damaged when he played Chu music to remind them of their homeland, All these can be easily found in Wikipedia.. No point watching TV because most of the time I dota-ing
Hence Si Mian Chu Ge was meant to refer as surrounded wich also meant trapped.. D'oh
The Xiao He part was how he advised Liu Bang to make Han Xin CIC then later on plotted his death
The only reason Han dynasty became big because the Queen and the crown prince die then the next in line Emperor made a lot of improvements hence with Ming and Tang, Han became one of the golden age of China
There are two more Emperors in throne before Emperor Wen and Emperor Wu started to stabilise and expand the empire. -
actually, i am not sure whether it means trapping the troops
but the more precise definition means to face troubles from all sides, or in desperate situations
i cant find the definition written on the net, except for this (ST excerpt)
http://careers.asia1.com.sg/st_recruit/r20041209.html
'A Chinese businessman may use the term si mian chu ge to describe how his business is facing difficulties everywhere. It refers to the end of the Qin dynasty when the Chus and Hans were fighting to establish a new dynasty. The Hans deflated the Chus’ will to fight by surrounding them (si mian) and singing patriotic Chu songs (chu ge) to remind them of their homeland, hence the phrase. But if you don’t know the historical background to that expression, you will find it hard to understand the person who used it,” he said. -
so can i say saddam hussein was 'si mian mai fu'ed' before his captivity and now in si mian chu ge situation?
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You are very right. That is how "si4 mian4 chu3 ge1" came about.Originally posted by Agenda:Dude, Are you stupid or what? Xiang Yu and friends were trapped in by Han Xin with no way out and this was furthur damaged when he played Chu music to remind them of their homeland, All these can be easily found in Wikipedia.. No point watching TV because most of the time I dota-ing
Hence Si Mian Chu Ge was meant to refer as surrounded wich also meant trapped.. D'oh
The Xiao He part was how he advised Liu Bang to make Han Xin CIC then later on plotted his death
The only reason Han dynasty became big because the Queen and the crown prince die then the next in line Emperor made a lot of improvements hence with Ming and Tang, Han became one of the golden age of China
My teacher in Chinese literature class many many years ago showed us a movie and you can see the actual scene where this happend. Think the movie was "xi1 chu3 ba4 wang2".