Four Face Buddha Destroyed and man lynched to death
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Hi, I am not yet a vegetarian. But being a Buddhist, I must observe that the meat I eat is from Five Clean Sources of MeatOriginally posted by markzz:Speaking of which, are u a vegetarian?
By the way, here's a question.
If a man does evil(eg: robber, murderer ) but realizes his mistakes (before he gets too old ) and sincerly repents. He does many good deeds and promotes buddhism and seeks forgiveness from the Triple Gems (Buddha, Sangha, Dharma ), will he still be cast into Hell?
Or will his Good Deeds make up for his sins and he shall be sent to the Western Paradise when he dies?
However Buddha asked those who walk the Bodhisattva path to become Vegetarians, because eating meat destroys the root of Great Compassion.
If a person deeply repents for his mistakes, cultivate the dharma, he may be exempted from hell. Please see the story of Angulimala, who killed 999 men but later attained Arhantship (liberation/enlightenment): Murderer of almost a thousand men... saved by Buddha. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Wrong. Thai Buddhism only has Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism is absolutely absent from Thailand. However, Brahmanist influence is very strong in Thailand, because of its history.
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Thailand has 2 main Buddhists sects.
Like Roman Catholism and the Non-Catholics.
There is Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism which is more strict.
Mahayana Buddhism is like the Roman Catholics and incorporates Hinduism.
Whether it is Mahayana or Theravada or Vajrayana Buddhism, the Buddhist teachings remain PURE and distinct from Hinduism. Buddha can be seen as a reformist of the society and religion in India, as Jesus Christ was seen as reformist of the Old Testament.The Hindu Gods become the Mahayana Buddhism' Buddhas.
Brahma, in Mahayana Buddhism, is exactly as seen in Theravadin Buddhism. Brahma is a Celestial Deity from the 1st Jhana plane. In fact these kinds of things cannot be changed, because it is written down in the scriptures. All Pali Scriptures (Theravadins) are also in the Chinese/Tibetan Canon without changes.So the Hindu God became the 4 face Buddha.
It is not because of tradition difference, it is because of plain ignorance. Inability to differentiate Deities from Buddha, due to lack of knowledge.When it comes to beliefs, it is up to you to believe anything you want since it actually makes no difference. For me, it is better to make life's deisions based on reality and logic rather than on beliefs.
Belief or not is not important. By cultivating the dharma, we are living in reality rather in illusion, and will be enlightened to reality. -
True Buddhists should really take the second stance. The first stance is not only superstitious, but against Buddhist teachings of Emptiness. Why grasp on forms?Originally posted by casino_king:One so called Buddhist told me that something very bad will happen to Thailand now that the statue is destroyed. Just look at waht happened when the 2000 yr old Bamiyan statues in Afghanistan was destroyed by the Taliban.
They were kicked out by the US, a Christian power.
Another Buddhist told me "It is just a statue, no need to kill a man over it."
So what is your take since you do a yearly pilgrimage? -
There is also Orthodox Church which is the main Christain denomination in most part of Eastern Europe.Originally posted by casino_king:Like Roman Catholism and the Non-Catholics. -
Don't you find it annoying when there is so much confusion among believers?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Wrong. Thai Buddhism only has Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism is absolutely absent from Thailand. However, Brahmanist influence is very strong in Thailand, because of its history.
Belief or not is not important. By cultivating the dharma, we are living in reality rather in illusion, and will be enlightened to reality.
What I have said I quoted from Buddhists.
I am now of the view that there is no right or wrong because it is subjective and depends on one's beliefs. Which is why I maintain that it is better to be rooted in reality than in beliefs.
I will not say more because this thread is in chit chat and not for serious stuff. Which is why I ask that person whether he believes anything bad will happen to Thailand with this destruction. -
What confusion? I really don't see confusion among Buddhists.Originally posted by casino_king:Don't you find it annoying when there is so much confusion among believers?
What I have said I quoted from Buddhists.
I am now of the view that there is no right or wrong because it is subjective and depends on one's beliefs. Which is why I maintain that it is better to be rooted in reality than in beliefs.
I will not say more because this thread is in chit chat and not for serious stuff. Which is why I ask that person whether he believes anything bad will happen to Thailand with this destruction.
If you're talking about True Buddhists, that is.
Maybe your questions should be termed "Why are there so much ignorance about Buddhism?"
Well... it is v sad but bcos human beings for a long time has this superstitious habit and also dogmatic mindset. If they had found out the teachings of Buddhism, then they would have easily forego these blind beliefs, they wouldn't have been so intolerant over their deities too. -
To you yourself you are "a true Buddhist" surprise surprise.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What confusion? I really don't see confusion among Buddhists.
If you're talking about True Buddhists, that is.
Maybe your questions should be termed "Why are there so much ignorance about Buddhism?"
Well... it is v sad but bcos human beings for a long time has this superstitious habit and also dogmatic mindset. If they had found out the teachings of Buddhism, then they would have easily forego these blind beliefs, they wouldn't have been so intolerant over their deities too.
To the Roman Catholics, the pope is the true representative of Christ.
To the other Christians, RC is heretical.
The outsider will ask: "Why is there such confusion in Christianity?"
Just as I am asking you: "Why is there such confusion in Buddhism?" -
Yes, I am a True Buddhist. My defination is that I am a disciple of Buddha.Originally posted by casino_king:To you yourself you are "a true Buddhist" surprise surprise.
To the Roman Catholics, the pope is the true representative of Christ.
To the other Christians, RC is heretical.
The outsider will ask: "Why is there such confusion in Christianity?"
Just as I am asking you: "Why is there such confusion in Buddhism?"
Buddha said, to become his disciple, he needs to take refuge in the Three Treasures - Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.
Having taken refuge, I am a true Buddhist. I said I am a True Buddhist, means I am a REAL Buddhist, not those who claim to be Buddhist, but anyhow worship other deities. That's it.
Again, I have already said, What confusion? I really don't see confusion among Buddhists.
Among the true cultivators of Buddhadharma, who have taken refuge in Three Treasures, there is no confusion. -
So maybe the question should be, why is there so much confusion among people who call themselves Buddhists? Surely if they are not Buddhists, then whats the point of identifying themselves with Buddha?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, I am a True Buddhist. My defination is that I am a disciple of Buddha.
Buddha said, to become his disciple, he needs to take refuge in the Three Treasures - Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.
Having taken refuge, I am a true Buddhist. I said I am a True Buddhist, means I am a REAL Buddhist, not those who claim to be Buddhist, but anyhow worship other deities. That's it.
Again, I have already said, What confusion? I really don't see confusion among Buddhists.
Among the true cultivators of Buddhadharma, who have taken refuge in Three Treasures, there is no confusion. -
Very simple. Because Chinese Folks Practitioners can worship anyone they see as 'divine'. Although Buddha did not claim to be a divine being or a higher power, it is gradually seen by the ignorant that Buddha is some kind of god, that is why they worship him. So because of their utmost respect of Buddha, they think just by worshipping Buddha, they become Buddhist. In reality, they have not taken refuge in Three Treasures, and do not know the dharma.Originally posted by casino_king:So maybe the question should be, why is there so much confusion among people who call themselves Buddhists? Surely if they are not Buddhists, then whats the point of identifying themselves with Buddha?
Markzz asked: And what about Datok Gong Shrine of Kusu Island?
Is he Taoist? If so, why are there Islamic symbols in his shrine?
If he's Islamic, why are devotees praying to him via joss sticks?
I replied: Because Chinese folks practitioners (usually known as Taoists) can basically worship anything... they can also worship Jesus, etc. -
ToucheOriginally posted by casino_king:And on what basis you make that remark? Speculation and imagination instead of looking at evidence and simply asking the person to clarify. You have a very confused mind if you live life like this.
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They might very well worship Jesus or Allah or Datuk or Brahma but they do not call themselves Christians or Muslims or hindus but Buddhists. Do you see my point?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Very simple. Because Chinese Folks Practitioners can worship anyone they see as 'divine'. Although Buddha did not claim to be a divine being or a higher power, it is gradually seen by the ignorant that Buddha is some kind of god, that is why they worship him. So because of their utmost respect of Buddha, they think just by worshipping Buddha, they become Buddhist. In reality, they have not taken refuge in Three Treasures, and do not know the dharma.
Markzz asked: And what about Datok Gong Shrine of Kusu Island?
Is he Taoist? If so, why are there Islamic symbols in his shrine?
If he's Islamic, why are devotees praying to him via joss sticks?
I replied: Because Chinese folks practitioners (usually known as Taoists) can basically worship anything... they can also worship Jesus, etc. -
because buddhism and taoism were influential in ancient china, and the ignorance just passed downOriginally posted by casino_king:They might very well worship Jesus or Allah or Datuk or Brahma but they do not call themselves Christians or Muslims or hindus but Buddhists. Do you see my point? -
well said.Originally posted by Cenarious:because buddhism and taoism were influential in ancient china, and the ignorance just passed down
Buddha is much more influencial in China, than say Jesus and Islam. -
What about Zen Buddhism practiced by Jap Monks? Is it the same as the Buddhism that True Buddhists practise?
As for the part where the ignorant thinking of Buddha as a God..
The Indian Monk Dah Mor(there used to be a tv series about him )
says:
"Buddha wish not that his followers bow down to him,
but rather, wishes that they spread the Buddhist dharma instead"
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Zen Buddhism in Japan derived from Ch'an Buddhism from China, they share the same lineage although may be slightly different. And Ch'an Buddhism in China is started from Bodhidharma, the Indian Patriarch. And the Indian Patriarch's lineage can be traced all the way back to Shakyamuni Buddha himself, on the 'flower incident'.Originally posted by markzz:What about Zen Buddhism practiced by Jap Monks? Is it the same as the Buddhism that True Buddhists practise?
As for the part where the ignorant thinking of Buddha as a God..
The Indian Monk Dah Mor(there used to be a tv series about him )
says:
"Buddha wish not that his followers bow down to him,
but rather, wishes that they spread the Buddhist dharma instead"
Once, in ancient times, when the World-Honored One was at Mount Grdhrakata, he twirled a flower before his assembled disciples. All were silent. Only Mahakasyapa broke into a smile.
The World-Honored One said, "I have the eye treasury of right Dharma, the subtle mind of Nirvana, the true form of no-form, and the flawless gate of the teaching. It is not established upon words and phrases. It is a special transmission outside tradition. I now entrust this to Mahakasyapa."
Zen Buddhism emphasize on a direct awakening - such experiences are outside words and concepts.
Buddhism has many sects and traditions, and they may be focusing on different practises taught by the Buddha, but essentially they are the same. Buddha taught 84000 dharma doors, to attain enlightenment you only have to enter one door. -
Broken statue means... bad omen
Astrologers warn Thailand:
2 Apr general election shouldn't be held
Thai PM Thaksin must step down to avoid bloodshed
March 23, 2006
IT was the work of one disturbed man. But it's a sign of trouble ahead for the entire country.
The upper part of the statue was smashed, leaving just the base intact. --AFP
That's what astrologers in Thailand are warning after a mentally-ill man destroyed a four-faced Brahma statue at the famous Erawan shrine in Bangkok with a hammer yesterday.
The man, Thanakorn Pakdeepol, 27, was immediately beaten to death by enraged passers-by in the upmarket shopping district around the Grand Hyatt Erawan Hotel.
Thousands of worshippers of many religions from across Thailand and around the world flock to the statue every day to seek good fortune.
Astrologers interpreted the incident as an omen that tragedy would befall Thailand if the current political turmoil was not defused quickly.
'The incident portends that something bad will happen. If the upcoming general election goes ahead on 2 Apr, bad things will happen,' well-respected astrologer Surattaphong Suwannarat told The Nation newspaper.
Astrologer Pinyo Pongcharoen agreed with his assessment.
'The Brahma has four faces and now there are apparently four sides in the country: The government, the opposition parties, the People's Alliance For Democracy and poor-people demonstrators,' he told the paper.
He said that if these four groups would turn towards other, the country would be at peace again.
The vice-chairman of the Astrological Association of Thailand (ATT), Mr Wiwat Jareogsiri, said the statue had been linked to the country's horoscope.
'When the country's horoscope is not good, this affects many things. Now that the sacred Brahma statue is destroyed, the country's economy may suffer,' he said.
Another astrologer, Mr Samrit Klomkliang, said the fact that the destruction was carried out by a mentally-ill man who was then lynched to death was ominous.
'This is blood sacrifice,' he said.
He said it was a sign that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should step down to avert bloodshed.
But AAT chairman Thanakorn Sinkasem dismissed talk of an omen, saying that the current turmoil was instead the result of the country's bad horoscope.
'If you notice, you will see that many monks have come out to join protests this year,' he said.
Mr Thanakorn believes the country will become embroiled in crisis as it marks its 224th year on 21 Apr, then improve after that.
Police major Thanit Ratanopas said the mentally-ill man was probably not fully aware of what he was doing.
'Based on his medical records, he was in and out of many hospitals with mental illness,' he said.
Two garbage collectors have been charged over his murder and more arrests are expected.
The shrine was built in 1956 to ward off bad luck during the construction of a hotel that has since been torn down.
It has long been a prime tourist destination and is also immensely popular with Thais - drivers take their hands off their steering wheels as they pass by to pay their respects.
Thailand's deputy prime minister Surakiart Sathirathai ordered the statue be rebuilt within two months using as many fragments of the original as possible. - Wire services. -
wow..learn so much about buddhism from a single thread...
interesting learnings today! -
actually the newspapers reported it as a Four Faced Brahma statue, a Hindu statue
S R Nathan visited the temple last year -
I am just surprised that the guy can do so much damage without any one stopping him.
The statue should be not be so fragile that some one can basically uproot it.
Hope they can employ some one to build a more solid statue.
At the same time, build a cage around please. -
the Chinese folks ususally taoists that you mentioned; basically worship anything... in fact they respect every religions and by their way of praying. The Ying and Yang theory. Black and White. Cause and Effect. There is a balance in everything and creating harmony.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Very simple. Because Chinese Folks Practitioners can worship anyone they see as 'divine'. Although Buddha did not claim to be a divine being or a higher power, it is gradually seen by the ignorant that Buddha is some kind of god, that is why they worship him. So because of their utmost respect of Buddha, they think just by worshipping Buddha, they become Buddhist. In reality, they have not taken refuge in Three Treasures, and do not know the dharma.
Markzz asked: And what about Datok Gong Shrine of Kusu Island?
Is he Taoist? If so, why are there Islamic symbols in his shrine?
If he's Islamic, why are devotees praying to him via joss sticks?
I replied: Because Chinese folks practitioners (usually known as Taoists) can basically worship anything... they can also worship Jesus, etc.
In San Zhi Jing, the first line something like "human in the beginning, they have good nature..." It is because of our secular world and the lack of basic understanding, tolerance and quest for progress that we create another facet of life, the good way or the bad way. -
Originally posted by iveco:
The thing about superstition. It depends.
[b]Broken statue means... bad omen
Astrologers warn Thailand:
2 Apr general election shouldn't be held
Thai PM Thaksin must step down to avoid bloodshed
March 23, 2006
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Phra Phom (4 face Buddha) "Phra" is used like "Mr" for Buddha or monk or King
There is a Thai army or police Maj Gen who said that Phra Phom had taken on the evil. That Phra Phom suffered the evil that was to befall Thailand and so the evil was avoided.
So if nothing happened, then everybody agrees with the maj Gen, If something bad happened, the astrologers become "famous."
You see, it has nothing to do with the predictions. You can simply make a guess and if you guess is correct, you become famous. If it is wrong, nobody remembers. -
lol, i liked this part of the report
"our father has been destroyed"