A lot of ITE Grads have a good future ahead!
-
Then, by what you're saying, life in sg is good comparing to 3rd world country.Originally posted by ubermagicseller:Good future? Well, it is rather subjective. A cleaner earning 600 a month could be dreaming of getting that cashier job which pays 1k a month. It can actually mean a lot to him, and could be considered 'a good future.'
Hmmm, ITE peeps do a have good future ahead then.
-
Well, life is difficult if we dont compare.Originally posted by fugue in C minor:Then, by what you're saying, life in sg is good comparing to 3rd world country. But the way ITE peeps compare, I do feel sorry for them. 
-
U will realise that not everyone is as free as u to just stare at the screen 24/7 and cant think out of the box.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Forumers, pls don't bother abt UberMagic. Do a search on him in other topics and u know why .
Pls continue......
Seriously, bringing u up must have been a waste of $. The oxygen u are consuming is already a huge wastage! -
Don't be so mean, ITE and O levels ppl are just a self-inferior bunch who needs our approval and affirmation badly.Originally posted by ubermagicseller:the way ITE peeps compare, I do feel sorry for them. 
But why they so pathetic? Why do they need other ppl's approval? Get a life!! -
I would love to include a third guy with what you mentioned, but when I am comparing between A and B, I am taking out the most obvious pros and cons of A and B. It's to prove a point rather than putting down either of them. When you ask someone if they prefer apple or orange, the person will likely consider why they want apple or why they prefer orange, of course the person can always say they prefer pineapple, but that's not the point of the question. That's why I did not include the third guy. The essence is in the question, the choices are the parameters, it's not the background by which the question itself should be based upon.Originally posted by BillGates:Why don't you include a third guy who has vast experience and had high academic qualifications?
BTW, I don't know what must be done to achieve a PhD in Biz. But I know that to get a Masters or Doctorate in Science courses, one has to do research and make contribution to the field of study he's in. One has to work based on knowledge and experience to achieve something that's not done before.
What I mean is.....
An undergraduate degree holder may be fresh out and do not have experience. But he'll be able to catch up on that sooner or later.
A graduate degree holder will have clocked his experience while doing research. He has to work with/for the industry within the confines of limited funds and time and with minimal guidance.
I do not think degrees are overrated. But with so many MM degree courses springing all over and training less rigourous as the mainstream courses, it's little wonder that the course do not train compentant workers these days.
You do have valid points when you said what you wrote, and I am sure some share your sentiments, if not many. The reason what prompts me to wrote what I did, is after my experiences with working with different levels of people. I have the priviledge of working with really smart people with really high education and some really stupid people with even higher paper qualifications. I'm not talking about degrees here, I'm also talking about Masters (can you believe it!!), occassionally me and my friends from the same company will go dinner together and we talk about if these people bought their certificates. For example, I was asking this lady to create a database for the company, she had just graduated from her Masters programme and recently joined my company, guess what, the database ended up named "Example". So imagine the horror when the programmers go to code the files and put things like, "Connection.Open Example", or during a meeting, the programmers say, "You need to connect to example, then retrieve the records from Example...". Fortunately, some guy informed us and we managed to put things back in order. In my post, I was merely comparing hands on experience with paper qualifications, and because I have experienced lots of horror stories before that's what prompts me to think differently now. When someone tells me they have a high education, I'm no longer taking for granted that he is more capable than anybody else.
Another example, one day the company's website was hacked. And of course, the boss is extremely frantic about it. Fortunately, the hacker was a security administrator, employed by a third party client to test the security of the system, so not much damage was done but because the hacker was not employed by us, they refuse to reveal on the system loophole. In any case, the boss got all the programmers to check on the problem. There were about 8 programmers, out of whom, 5 had degrees, 1 Masters student and 2 were diploma qualified. In the end, the diploma guy saved the day and emerged the hero. When asked how he knew how to resolve the hacking issue, he just casually mentioned he has experience this before. By right, everyone expect the degree programmers to lead by example, but in this case, reality has proven the common sense may not be so common afterall.
Of course if you ask me, to choose between a Ph.D student or a PSLE student, assuming both had nil experience, I would likely go for the Ph.D student, it would have been a better bet, but that's not my question if you read my post carefully. My question is comparing abilities and paper qualifications, that's my point mainly. Once again, I wrote what I did, not because I did it for fun, but it's partly due to the comedies that happened before, and I still laugh about it today. -
+1, i agree with what you had said on having experience and nil experience. If you had to send a car for repair or servicing, will you let a degree student who study automotive engineering but who had no hands on experience in repairing automotive or a ite student who study automotive engineering and have hands on experience in repairing automotive.Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:I would love to include a third guy with what you mentioned, but when I am comparing between A and B, I am taking out the most obvious pros and cons of A and B. It's to prove a point rather than putting down either of them. When you ask someone if they prefer apple or orange, the person will likely consider why they want apple or why they prefer orange, of course the person can always say they prefer pineapple, but that's not the point of the question. That's why I did not include the third guy. The essence is in the question, the choices are the parameters, it's not the background by which the question itself should be based upon.
You do have valid points when you said what you wrote, and I am sure some share your sentiments, if not many. The reason what prompts me to wrote what I did, is after my experiences with working with different levels of people. I have the priviledge of working with really smart people with really high education and some really stupid people with even higher paper qualifications. I'm not talking about degrees here, I'm also talking about Masters (can you believe it!!), occassionally me and my friends from the same company will go dinner together and we talk about if these people bought their certificates. For example, I was asking this lady to create a database for the company, she had just graduated from her Masters programme and recently joined my company, guess what, the database ended up named "Example". So imagine the horror when the programmers go to code the files and put things like, "Connection.Open Example", or during a meeting, the programmers say, "You need to connect to example, then retrieve the records from Example...". Fortunately, some guy informed us and we managed to put things back in order. In my post, I was merely comparing hands on experience with paper qualifications, and because I have experienced lots of horror stories before that's what prompts me to think differently now. When someone tells me they have a high education, I'm no longer taking for granted that he is more capable than anybody else.
Another example, one day the company's website was hacked. And of course, the boss is extremely frantic about it. Fortunately, the hacker was a security administrator, employed by a third party client to test the security of the system, so not much damage was done but because the hacker was not employed by us, they refuse to reveal on the system loophole. In any case, the boss got all the programmers to check on the problem. There were about 8 programmers, out of whom, 5 had degrees, 1 Masters student and 2 were diploma qualified. In the end, the diploma guy saved the day and emerged the hero. When asked how he knew how to resolve the hacking issue, he just casually mentioned he has experience this before. By right, everyone expect the degree programmers to lead by example, but in this case, reality has proven the common sense may not be so common afterall.
Of course if you ask me, to choose between a Ph.D student or a PSLE student, assuming both had nil experience, I would likely go for the Ph.D student, it would have been a better bet, but that's not my question if you read my post carefully. My question is comparing abilities and paper qualifications, that's my point mainly. Once again, I wrote what I did, not because I did it for fun, but it's partly due to the comedies that happened before, and I still laugh about it today.
But sadly, some people just think that having a degree is equal to having work experience and having a future. And entering ITE is meant to them as having no future. So I will put this question here, why have we seen those degree students comminting crimes when they have a great future? Example, the murder case in austalia? The laywer who absconded millions of clients money?
A ITE cert may not hold its ground against a degree, but I will stand by what I had said before, each job need a different skills level. And work experience need to be earn, you cant just study to get it. If you were the boss of my a/m example, you will hire the one who can do the job of servicing, because at the end of the day, you still need to sevice the car for the client, and is not by someone who know how an engine works, but do not know how an engine is seviced. -
I have read ur post n agreed people having paper qualification not necessarily betterin doing the work.Originally posted by tortoise55:+1, i agree with what you had said on having experience and nil experience. If you had to send a car for repair or servicing, will you let a degree student who study automotive engineering but who had no hands on experience in repairing automotive or a ite student who study automotive engineering and have hands on experience in repairing automotive.
But sadly, some people just think that having a degree is equal to having work experience and having a future. And entering ITE is meant to them as having no future. So I will put this question here, why have we seen those degree students comminting crimes when they have a great future? Example, the murder case in austalia? The laywer who absconded millions of clients money?
A ITE cert may not hold its ground against a degree, but I will stand by what I had said before, each job need a different skills level. And work experience need to be earn, you cant just study to get it. If you were the boss of my a/m example, you will hire the one who can do the job of servicing, because at the end of the day, you still need to sevice the car for the client, and is not by someone who know how an engine works, but do not know how an engine is seviced.
-
Agreed with all of you. But the thing is in the gahmen sector it is a totally different story. To get entry, you basically need a certificate! Once you are in, you lead and co-ordinate with vendors outside to do the job. Your job is to ensure they do the job properly. It does not mean you know how to do the job cuz that is not valued after. They want your management skills as they value this as more important than hands on skills. They put management skills one cut above technical skills.Originally posted by will4:I have read ur post n agreed people having paper qualification not necessarily betterin doing the work.
So you can't really fault ppl from taking degree or higher education cuz they want to move to such arena which IMO is money more easier to earn in the comfort of air con and you get to order ppl to do work. You get a sense of being a boss. Not to mention the excellent welfare and benefits who will not be shaken?
PS... there was once I heard a saying private firm ppl not that willing to employ a former gahmen sector employees for certain job scope as their dealings with them told them they are more of NATO character ppl. -
Yeah, gahmen sector is almost entirely about paper qualifications. I don't know if it's still considered iron bowl career, but I think it's quite stable and good money along that road, as long as the country continue to be progressing. Good lah, this will also encourage people to study more. It's cool to have a high education, but some people very yaya about it, then it's not so cool anymore.Originally posted by sohguanh:Agreed with all of you. But the thing is in the gahmen sector it is a totally different story. To get entry, you basically need a certificate! Once you are in, you lead and co-ordinate with vendors outside to do the job. Your job is to ensure they do the job properly. It does not mean you know how to do the job cuz that is not valued after. They want your management skills as they value this as more important than hands on skills. They put management skills one cut above technical skills.
So you can't really fault ppl from taking degree or higher education cuz they want to move to such arena which IMO is money more easier to earn in the comfort of air con and you get to order ppl to do work. You get a sense of being a boss. Not to mention the excellent welfare and benefits who will not be shaken?
PS... there was once I heard a saying private firm ppl not that willing to employ a former gahmen sector employees for certain job scope as their dealings with them told them they are more of NATO character ppl.
During my NS, I noticed that gahmen sector people very slack though, and the best thing is alot of them have mastered their tai chi quan very well, so little soldier like me always do the work, coz I dunno tai chi quan, I am extremely dumb on certain things. Funny thing is when the work is supposed (very obvious) to be done by this guy, I also dunno why how come suddenly become my problem. lol, anyway glad the nightmare is all over. -
Army mah u do the work well or not also get the same flat salary,hence the work usually push to us the poor Nsf,but sometimes hor nsf also can chu tai chi quan one lah it just that u need to throw one "sir" inside can liao loh hahhahahaOriginally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:Yeah, gahmen sector is almost entirely about paper qualifications. I don't know if it's still considered iron bowl career, but I think it's quite stable and good money along that road, as long as the country continue to be progressing. Good lah, this will also encourage people to study more. It's cool to have a high education, but some people very yaya about it, then it's not so cool anymore.
During my NS, I noticed that gahmen sector people very slack though, and the best thing is alot of them have mastered their tai chi quan very well, so little soldier like me always do the work, coz I dunno tai chi quan, I am extremely dumb on certain things. Funny thing is when the work is supposed (very obvious) to be done by this guy, I also dunno why how come suddenly become my problem. lol, anyway glad the nightmare is all over.
But i find it funny leh gahmen sector need paper qualification,but in army hor my camp last time all consists of students from ITE and some only o level loh,maybe now change lah ,but even my oc a cpt only have a poly dip -
haha, I think that there is no such thing as iron-rice bowl le. Even the army are kicking people out. Education is important to progress in this world, just that different people progress at a different time/rate, and thats why we see in the newspaper about some kids who got great results in poly or uni, but when they are younger, they were in em3 or normal tech steam.
-
Thats why geh meh people died died dun wan to go work in private sector once they are in geh meh jobs, cause they may have the knowledge but they dun have the skill.Originally posted by sohguanh:Agreed with all of you. But the thing is in the gahmen sector it is a totally different story. To get entry, you basically need a certificate! Once you are in, you lead and co-ordinate with vendors outside to do the job. Your job is to ensure they do the job properly. It does not mean you know how to do the job cuz that is not valued after. They want your management skills as they value this as more important than hands on skills. They put management skills one cut above technical skills.
So you can't really fault ppl from taking degree or higher education cuz they want to move to such arena which IMO is money more easier to earn in the comfort of air con and you get to order ppl to do work. You get a sense of being a boss. Not to mention the excellent welfare and benefits who will not be shaken?
PS... there was once I heard a saying private firm ppl not that willing to employ a former gahmen sector employees for certain job scope as their dealings with them told them they are more of NATO character ppl. -
Oh no... Those private sector not willing to take in gahmen sector ex-staff, no wonder i can't get a job before I quitting.
-
Depending on the position you are applying, you gotta prove to them you are not a NATO person in the gahmen sector. You perform jobs same as vendor outside. You gotta showcast your strong points. NATO not really a favored strong point in private sector unless you are applying for middle to high level management postOriginally posted by kailun:Oh no... Those private sector not willing to take in gahmen sector ex-staff, no wonder i can't get a job before I quitting.