Singapore Employees' Mindset

Squiggly

23 Jan 07, 12:13

It baffles me how Singaporeans view themselves (as employees)...

Just because you have a degree (regardless of the quality), they expect doors to be open and employers to be begging them to stay, because they are graduates....

I am not stereotyping, just that I notice that the young graduates these days seems to be living in their own la-la land... even different specialties have different renumeration packages... $2800 for freshie, with a general degree?

And even after they are employed, they do not seem to possess the initiative or even the correct thinking process...

Quite frankly, even as a manager... I am quite diappointed.

The paper opens the first door, if you don't produce results.. out you go.. that's the fact of life... and If you're expecting the working world to be nice and cushy... sorry, you're in the wrong world...

spinsugar

23 Jan 07, 12:55

In all honesty, Singapore overvalues book smarts (paper qualification) over street smarts (ground experience).

This is what happens when your employee falls behind in the latter department.

Ferguson

23 Jan 07, 12:58

O level enuff

Ignatiaus

23 Jan 07, 13:01

I'm in the street smarts catagory since i don't have a degree

Too bad alot of jobs don't have that as a criteria! @_@

Squiggly

23 Jan 07, 18:58

Book or no book smart is one thing....

The thing is they behave as though the employers owe them living. Picture this... an employee joined the company as a newbie... with less than satisfactory performance asks balantly for confirmation and a pay increment of $500 + transport allowance... I bet he will ask for more in another 6 months...

I just feel that if you want a pay raise, you have to justify with your performance....

Most of the managers here cover various portfolios, and this newboe hopped on the bandwagon and complains incessantly about the loust renumerations, the heavy work load... Man... like we are not..

Sigh~~~~~~

dragg

23 Jan 07, 19:14

managers have themselves to blame too.

Squiggly

23 Jan 07, 19:28

Originally posted by dragg:
managers have themselves to blame too.

How so?

cAr|n

23 Jan 07, 19:34

yup i think this is quite true.... i would think that the problem may be more obvious especially to those who grad with good degrees thinking that it's easy to find a job anywhere

when i was on internship my boss used to tell me that a good honours degree only opens the first door and the rest depends on performance... learn as much as u can while u are new because as u become more and more senior within the company u can no longer say u don't know this don't know that already

in fact from the 2nd or 3rd job onwards employers look at past work performance and job scope rather than the degree.... hence the degree really becomes useless once u find the first job

dragg

23 Jan 07, 21:15

Originally posted by Squiggly:
How so?

arent they the people who made paper chasers think they are big deal?

Squiggly

23 Jan 07, 21:33

Originally posted by dragg:
arent they the people who made paper chasers think they are big deal?

sad but true to a certain extent, perhaps at the beginning of the recruitment process, some jobs do advertise for a "good degree"....

but I don't think the managers are the ones who built the "halo" on their head...

This apparent "halo" some of these fresh grads wear on their heads makes them harder to teach/train at times... and in fact, I've seen some with real attitude problems like "I am of a different class"... "please don't bother me with simple tasks, I am made for the BIG things" work attitude...

Zelphon

23 Jan 07, 22:13

Originally posted by Squiggly:
It baffles me how Singaporeans view themselves (as employees)...

Just because you have a degree (regardless of the quality), they expect doors to be open and employers to be begging them to stay, because they are graduates....

I am not stereotyping, just that I notice that the young graduates these days seems to be living in their own la-la land... even different specialties have different renumeration packages... $2800 for freshie, with a general degree?

And even after they are employed, they do not seem to possess the initiative or even the correct thinking process...

Quite frankly, even as a manager... I am quite diappointed.

The paper opens the first door, if you don't produce results.. out you go.. that's the fact of life... and If you're expecting the working world to be nice and cushy... sorry, you're in the wrong world...

Hi, I am a Fresh Grad and I am going to tender my resignation probably next week.

I have an average degree and yup, my starting pay is around that amount. Perhaps you may think that I belong to those paper qualification type but no.

Another perspective from my side is that the companies are exploiting fresh grads. So what if the starting pay is $2800.. U must understand that inflation and increasing GST is erroding the purchasing power of money... Wages should rise as time goes by to offset inflation...

Singaporean compaines expect the usual mindset in the past.... Work long hours and endless OT without OT pay and they assume that this worker is a model worker....This is the same thinking and mindset that is drillled into the system eons ago... Nowadays, working smart is even more important than working hard.. Settling the most crucial task at hand in the shortest time is more important that wasting time on unimportant stuff and thus doing OT...

Wat happens is the manager is one who values and judge performance based on free OT ??? That is why i am quitting my current job.. No because I am unable to perform but because the management mindset is cast in stone and outdated...

Do be aware that there's two sides to a coin...

Just my 2 cents worth...

mamamamama

23 Jan 07, 22:19

Originally posted by Ferguson:
O level enuff

of course O'level is enough..

enough for you to live a simple life..

T.Ryousuke

23 Jan 07, 22:27

In my company, the Director treat staff with degree better than others, same goes to managers. To them ,they think those below that are CMI, and that become a culture.

dork3d

23 Jan 07, 22:41

Originally posted by Squiggly:
It baffles me how Singaporeans view themselves (as employees)...

Just because you have a degree (regardless of the quality), they expect doors to be open and employers to be begging them to stay, because they are graduates....

I am not stereotyping, just that I notice that the young graduates these days seems to be living in their own la-la land... even different specialties have different renumeration packages... $2800 for freshie, with a general degree?

And even after they are employed, they do not seem to possess the initiative or even the correct thinking process...

Quite frankly, even as a manager... I am quite diappointed.

The paper opens the first door, if you don't produce results.. out you go.. that's the fact of life... and If you're expecting the working world to be nice and cushy... sorry, you're in the wrong world...

Frankly, me consider one of the worst and most feared manager in my company for these uni grads cos me always "showed" them the way out...

Sad to say, most of our grads' mindset is as such that they think they are like elites, but to me they are worse than those who have secondary education but willing to explore and learn and more pro-active...

Squiggly

24 Jan 07, 02:03

Originally posted by Zelphon:
Hi, I am a Fresh Grad and I am going to tender my resignation probably next week.

I have an average degree and yup, my starting pay is around that amount. Perhaps you may think that I belong to those paper qualification type but no.

Another perspective from my side is that the companies are exploiting fresh grads. So what if the starting pay is $2800.. U must understand that inflation and increasing GST is erroding the purchasing power of money... Wages should rise as time goes by to offset inflation...

Singaporean compaines expect the usual mindset in the past.... Work long hours and endless OT without OT pay and they assume that this worker is a model worker....This is the same thinking and mindset that is drillled into the system eons ago... Nowadays, working smart is even more important than working hard.. Settling the most crucial task at hand in the shortest time is more important that wasting time on unimportant stuff and thus doing OT...

Wat happens is the manager is one who values and judge performance based on free OT ??? That is why i am quitting my current job.. No because I am unable to perform but because the management mindset is cast in stone and outdated...

Do be aware that there's two sides to a coin...

Just my 2 cents worth...

OT? Hmmm... I think it is more applicable for the manufacturing or production industries... If you are an executive, I think it's rare...

casshern

24 Jan 07, 10:44

just guessing, these graduates in questions, they are young, have the newest handphones, driving some cars (not a conti but going to), dressed in armani/hugo/(insert expensive brand here) and go clubbing.

somehow the picture of this group of yippies came into my mind when i read this thead

BillyBong

24 Jan 07, 11:06

Originally posted by Squiggly:
It baffles me how Singaporeans view themselves (as employees)...

Just because you have a degree (regardless of the quality), they expect doors to be open and employers to be begging them to stay, because they are graduates....

I am not stereotyping, just that I notice that the young graduates these days seems to be living in their own la-la land... even different specialties have different renumeration packages... $2800 for freshie, with a general degree?

And even after they are employed, they do not seem to possess the initiative or even the correct thinking process...

Quite frankly, even as a manager... I am quite diappointed.

The paper opens the first door, if you don't produce results.. out you go.. that's the fact of life... and If you're expecting the working world to be nice and cushy... sorry, you're in the wrong world...

To provide a balanced view of your obviously skewed opinion, there are many graduates who work tirelessly to earn their keep, and continue to stay relevant in their respective fields.

The current market has changed. Hard work no longer guarantees job security. While the younger generation of grads may consider themselves more 'mobile' compared to middle-aged and earlier forties staff, there is still a need to continuously 'prove' yourself.

This is especially so in the private sector, in industries such as aerospace, manufacturing waffer fabs and pharmaceutical. It's not enough to deliver on your product, one has to deliver faster, better and cheaper products annually to demanding customers who expect price cuts and discounts.

Graduate positions in such industries have a high attrition rate because the pressure-cooking environment is simply not worth the pay companies are offering. Managers can make or break their future. Knowing exactly what your boss needs can play a key role in career advancement. A wrong second-guess can snuff out your future plans. Boot-licking is discouraged and only value-added services are demanded.

Yes, a degree opens many more doors than others, but ultimately, it is simply a passport to your new career, just like a diploma and an NITEC cert. The pendulum can easily swing the other way and those that underperform will surely face the axe.

To single out graduates for this kind of behaviour is as naive as the current cold war between polytechnic and JC students over which institution of learning is 'better'.

Coquitlam

24 Jan 07, 11:14

I'm basically a booksmart and a streetsmart fella and I think that this overvaluation of booksmarts will be the downfall of Sillypore.

I've seen how, after going thru lots of shit to build up my business that streetsmarts are better anytime. Heck I have a right to say as I come from both sides of the fence. Problem is these young punks with all the degrees think they are worth a high starting salary. I tell them I have lots of paper qualis too but what when I ask them what do they have to offer that will make a difference to my company, they are stumped.........so much for Sillyporean graduates. I'd rather hire foreign talents now as we business people in the business community see the hunger in their eyes, from China/India etc...and they do not quibble with you over starting salaries. Instead, they tell you only to give them an increment if they do well. I say that's the attitude man...

Sillyporean graduates, on the other hand, strut up to your doorstep and tell you that they ought to be paid what they think is teh market rate....how ignorant they are...

The only kinds of S'porean graduates I respect are those who have rolled up their sleeves and tortured themselves through the setting up of their own business and know how hard it is to earn....these I will kowtow....not some little punk grad who only knows how to apply for a job....

I say get more cheap foreign labor in....

fymk

24 Jan 07, 18:14

I held a degree in nursing along time ago ...working for 1.3k per month and did free OT and got scolding for not managing my time even though I had to nurse 24 patients with only 2 assistant nurses in the PRIVATE CLASS side.

Then they gave me a roster of 12 days to 1 off day at each ends with very interesting rotations as in I will do one day duty and one afternoon duty alternately. Cannot say anything - just shut up and tahan. I fell sick. I was scolded on not being healthy. Lovely. If that wasn't enough , I actually got a warning from the nursing officer about taking one day sickie off on my third month - I was running a very high fever and came to work . I nearly collapsed but still go scolded for not performing that day and I was denied permission to go home although one of my colleagues took my temperature and said I was 39 deg. It was only after I hit 40 deg - they had to send me to ED.

So I kept quiet and decided. Nursing in that particular setting was shit . I told them goodbye when another employer decided I was good enough to be employed for 1.75k per month with only office hour duties.

I collected experience and went overseas ....which got me 3 times the pay for less of the work.

The moral of the story: Just Shut up , bide your time and have your experience. The more difficult a workplace is , the more you will become able to handle problems in any workplace anywhere in the world. If your employer does not appreciate you , just run when another door opens.

ShutterBug

24 Jan 07, 18:33

Originally posted by Squiggly:
It baffles me how Singaporeans view themselves (as employees)...

Just because you have a degree (regardless of the quality), they expect doors to be open and employers to be begging them to stay, because they are graduates....

I am not stereotyping, just that I notice that the young graduates these days seems to be living in their own la-la land... even different specialties have different renumeration packages... $2800 for freshie, with a general degree?

And even after they are employed, they do not seem to possess the initiative or even the correct thinking process...

Quite frankly, even as a manager... I am quite diappointed.

The paper opens the first door, if you don't produce results.. out you go.. that's the fact of life... and If you're expecting the working world to be nice and cushy... sorry, you're in the wrong world...

I fully agree with you.

There are too many "paper grads" out there.. locals especially.

As much as I would want to ONLY hire locals, I would not allow dead-weights into my organizations, or for any to stay on if they do managed to get in.

Squiggly

27 Jan 07, 11:22

Originally posted by Coquitlam:
I'm basically a booksmart and a streetsmart fella and I think that this overvaluation of booksmarts will be the downfall of Sillypore.

I've seen how, after going thru lots of shit to build up my business that streetsmarts are better anytime. Heck I have a right to say as I come from both sides of the fence. Problem is these young punks with all the degrees think they are worth a high starting salary. I tell them I have lots of paper qualis too but what when I ask them what do they have to offer that will make a difference to my company, they are stumped.........so much for Sillyporean graduates. I'd rather hire foreign talents now as we business people in the business community see the hunger in their eyes, from China/India etc...and they do not quibble with you over starting salaries. Instead, they tell you only to give them an increment if they do well. I say that's the attitude man...

Sillyporean graduates, on the other hand, strut up to your doorstep and tell you that they ought to be paid what they think is teh market rate....how ignorant they are...

The only kinds of S'porean graduates I respect are those who have rolled up their sleeves and tortured themselves through the setting up of their own business and know how hard it is to earn....these I will kowtow....not some little punk grad who only knows how to apply for a job....

I say get more cheap foreign labor in....

The problem is alot of singaporeans don't like the risk that's associated with starting their own business... In fact, alot of young people I talked to expressed desire to set up their own business... But boy will they be in for a nasty surprise... I hope they will go through it... cos the sacrifices and the amount of "dirty job" to get your own business up and running successfully is beyond words...

God bless singapore with more entrepreneurs....

In fact, entrepreneurs makes great co-workers and managers... cos they can totally understand how the boss thinks, and therefore, deliver the desired results and reccomendations...