Cut of point, the fundamental problem of the education
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Through a recent article on Strait Times, its sad to see local youth not being able to be admit to their course of interest due to practices of cut off point system. Prof Low from RP even mention that students are not selecting the course considering personal aptitude. That article also mention that courses like tourism management or bio science appears "glamorous" to student which is the reason why they select their choices.
My personel opinion is that the cut off point system is totally irrelevant on the admission of student for the course they preferred. I would like the educational bodies to review such system and its application in a modern society.
The reason why polys had failed to fill their places in engineering places is due to the fact that they fail to interest youth in the engineering industry. Using cut off point system, they had misled student into thinking that engineering courses is second grade compared to other more popular courses. The cut off point system is just an easy way out for school to adopt for their adminstration on admission criteria. It lack sophistication and promoting the potential of individual student.
I hope schools can understand that todays youth are very updated on current issues. They see the potential and growth on the course they chooses due to media and personel interest. They chooses their courses because by doing what they have passion in, they are likely to excel.
I hereby remind school that engineering is not a second grade course where you put student in when they are not assign their choices of courses. Engineering is not a subject which require a lesser 'O' Level grades to be consider for admission. Demand is lower reason being that school had not make enough effort to promote the course and interest youth.
In fact, engineering may be the subjects which require brighter student who have the potential to develop and innovate. Wake up!!!
Please review your admission criteria to match the students needs.
Channel NewsAsia - Please highlight my concern to Singaporean to your powerful medium.
I welcome opinion from others, kindly reponse to my poll and write up. Thank you -
Quote Audrey Heng Aik Choo (Ms) on Strait Times on 13 March 07
" Bid to enter polytechnic failed by just one point: Appeals process too rigid
I REFER to the article, 'Poly route shut for average students' (ST, March , and would like to share my experience regarding my daughter's application to the polytechnics after her O level results.
My daughter had an aggregate score of 14 that allowed her eligibility to many courses as listed in the result slips. Having attended a number of open houses organised by the various polytechnics and with the understanding that an aggregate score of below 16 is likely to meet the entry requirement for Accounting, the subject she is interested in, she listed Accounting in a polytechnic, which is within walking distance from our residence, as her first choice of selection.
When we received her enrolment results, she was posted to another polytechnic to do the course of Business Administration that she had put as her fourth choice of her selection.
We also found out that she missed the entry score of her first choice subject and polytechnic by a mere one point.
As my daughter had A2s respectively for her Principles of Accounting and Maths in her O level, I decided to make an appeal at the polytechnic of her first choice.
However, I was informed by the officer at that polytechnic that entry is based strictly on merit and that as long as one aggregate score is above the cut-off point, it would be a waste of time making an appeal. I am disappointed that our educational system is adopting the mindset of 'No target score, No talk!'
With the change in trend and the focus shifted towards polytechnic education by many O level students, I fully agree with Ms K. Mathiyazhaki that the ministry should look into increasing the intake of the polytechnics to allow average achievers the opportunity to pursue their education in this route.
Looking at the low entry points of the various courses published by the polytechnics in Singapore, which were released only at the time of enrolment results, it appears that many students with good GCE O level results have decided to enrol in the polytechnic instead of the junior college. If this increase in enrolment is not matched by an increased intake for various courses offered, then the average achievers who wish to pursue courses of their choice will be displaced as they are left with no other choice but to accept a posting to courses that they may have lesser aptitude or interest in.
Perhaps the appeal process can be further fine-tuned to consider students who have achieved reasonably good results in their relevant subjects but have missed the aggregate cut-off, which is based on all subjects regardless of their relevance to the courses of pursuit.
I would also wish to appeal to the relevant polytechnics to publish the entry cut-off points of the previous year's intake in their open house brochures so that students can make informed choices of the courses they like to pursue and within their capability. "
Good day Ms Choo,
If you by any chance read my respond kindly get in contact with me as soon as possible. Please give me an opportunities to help your daughter get into the course she wanted. My motive is clear and simple, i wish to seek a revolution of a system which i am a victim to.
I may not succeed but i want to let the readers here know that i have did my best to do something about it rather than sitting here and voice my opinion.
I agree with your points but disagree with your solution of publishing the cut off point. The cut off point system itself in the first place is not fair with not basis but to be fast and efficient. With the advancement of technology, i have a better suggestion for the school which i will propose.
If any other readers are facing the same issue and think that it is a problem, i will be glad to help. I need a match in the first place to strike a spark.
Sincerely Lance Ngo -
Quote Alvin Sim Khim Woon, London, United Kingdom on Strait Times 12 March 07
"Check cutoff grades before applying to school I REFER to the letter, 'Poly route shut for average students' (ST, March , and have two points to make.
First, if a student knows what course he wants to pursue in tertiary education, he has should find out how easy or difficult it is to make the cut for the course.
When I did my A levels in 1991, I was interested in reading for an accountancy degree at Nanyang Technological University and found out the average cutoff grade was 2As.
My point is that cutoff grades for different courses and different institutions vary widely.
I believe the cutoff grade to make it to a university in Britain is 2Cs at A level. Does that mean a student with 2Cs can moan that he didn't make it to Oxbridge?
Second, there are plenty of letters to ST Forum, asking the authorities to look into this, that and the other.
We're supposed to be a First World nation, mature and leading the way. Yet when something doesn't go our way, our first instinct is to ask the authorities to look into it, rather than be proactive and do something ourselves.
Please, let's not be a nation of whingers. Rather than pass the buck, try to come up with an alternative solution. "
Good day Alvin, i am replying just as a personal perspective and have nothing against your opinion. In fact, i totally respect your opinion but i don't agree with it. I don't agree using overseas entry as comparison reason being that not everybody is fortunate enough to be able to afford it. Congratulations it appears that you and I are lucky and can seek alternative to pursue our dreams but be aware that others may not be as lucky.
Citizens are not moaning, they are just trying to communicate to other people with similar problem using the medium of modern communication. The reason its possible because its a first world country we are living in. The country is liberal enough to accept such disgrunt on our public papers.
I do agree with you that sometimes we do whine too much or make complaints. We are lucky to be able to even make such comments in the first place openly.
Many concern parents had see a problem in the system and they are sounding the alarm. I think that its perfectly fair for them to make known about their opinions.
If you really want to compare it to other countries especially Britain, you should have a better idea why parents are questioning the system. Why does Britain University able to lower the cut off point? Why do some of their studies accept students base on commercial experience?
The reason they are doing that because they admit student base on their merit though they have a minimum requirement in order for them to even go through with the University Program.
The problem with our cut off system is that the bar is set unusually high that deters potential candidates. The cut off system has eliminated student who are capable of doing well in their choice of course but fail to qualify because their overall score is being pull down by irrelevant subjects they took in Secondary School.
I know education is not everything in life but academics institution is the place where student can be equip with the skill of the interest in a shorter time , more comprehensive covering related subjects which appear useless and a incubator where student can afford to make mistakes.
Above respond is my personal opinion and does not represent the general public. Its my philosophy and i believe in it.
Sincerely Lance Ngo -
I dont know about your schools, but my school only accepts the best students around the world into the engineering program
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hmm? this is singapore. you wanna get a good job. study. you wanna get into a good school. study.
they categorized everybody based on their academic merits. it's kinda sad i'd say.
but this is singapore. what do you expect.
komprain oso no eus.
you think they'll eliminate the whole COP system? nah, i don't think so. -
This one from Mars or Venus? If we do something about it and protest on the streets, the "authorities" will let us?Originally posted by LanceNgo:We're supposed to be a First World nation, mature and leading the way. Yet when something doesn't go our way, our first instinct is to ask the authorities to look into it, rather than be proactive and do something ourselves.
Please, let's not be a nation of whingers. Rather than pass the buck, try to come up with an alternative solution. "
Sincerely Lance Ngo
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WOAH !!! ....Originally posted by the.owl:I dont know about your schools, but my school only accepts the best students around the world into the engineering program 
MIT ? ....
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not as good as MIT, but still not badOriginally posted by Fatum:WOAH !!! ....
MIT ? .... -
ah ....... I know !!! .....Originally posted by the.owl:not as good as MIT, but still not bad
you're an NUS student !!! .... -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:This one from Mars or Venus? If we do something about it and protest on the streets, the "authorities" will let us?
Alvin Sim Khim Woon, London, United Kingdom
wad u think? -
i didnt go overseas to go to NUS pleaseOriginally posted by Fatum:ah ....... I know !!! .....
you're an NUS student !!! .... -
wah ..... you must be really smart ....Originally posted by the.owl:i didnt go overseas to go to NUS please
so .... which school then ? ...
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i got 54pts and i wana go rjc cus it is my dream to study there .. ya i agree the cut off point system is bullsheit
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How true. The cut-off point system is rubbish because I couldn't get the course/school of my choice. How unfair that it went to someone who got a better score.Originally posted by Gaara*:i got 54pts and i wana go rjc cus it is my dream to study there .. ya i agree the cut off point system is bullsheit -
No, they will kindly ask us to protest indoors.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:This one from Mars or Venus? If we do something about it and protest on the streets, the "authorities" will let us? -
Which is the fundamental why the issue should be raise rather than sit on it.
Thanks very much for all the contribution whether its fore or against me. I respected your opinions.
Sincerely
Lance Ngo -
I think you should have posted this in 'Speaker's Corner', for more serious replies.
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as much to bullsh!t as it is..Cut Off Point is essential as a gauge..becos u got to set a limit to where students with this range of points can go..and a range of points a certain course can accept..i would rather suggest that instead of just blaming the cop system of the various poly..we should review how the poly approach appealing..which is think..they should handle with a case by case basis..lets say..if student A is a very good student and had scored very well in his prelim and various exam but lost standard in his actual O lvl exam should b considered first for appealing..also..testimonial and conduct issue should b included..this would justified a student performance better as compared to condemning a student becos of a lousy o lvl result when he performed well during various school exam...
all in all..cop is needed..but shouldnt b rigidly stuck to but instead should b used as a gauge..
as i skipped all the various article above..my bad if theres any repeated point.. -
Cut of point, the fundamental problem of the education
Nah, it isn't. I think the fundamental problem is this -->
Cut off point, the fundamental problem of the education
JKJK
In my opinion, more fundamental would be the spoon feeding because it directly affects your job in the future. Your capability to be flexible etc. -
Like i said i am not saying that cut of point is totally wrong, i just want the bar to be set realistic to the enrolment requirement rather than a method to eliminate student in the fastest and most efficient way.
What i want is reviewing the system and make necessary changes not abolish anything.
All contributor here are respected for their opinion. Thank You
Sincerely Lance Ngo -
Relax... No one will point at you with a finger of accusation and say "shut up".Originally posted by LanceNgo:Like i said i am not saying that cut of point is totally wrong, i just want the bar to be set realistic to the enrolment requirement rather than a method to eliminate student in the fastest and most efficient way.
What i want is reviewing the system and make necessary changes not abolish anything.
All contributor here are respected for their opinion. Thank You
Sincerely Lance Ngo
Feel at ease, we are all here to express bits and pieces of our opinions. ^^ -
i believe the cut off point system is a stable gauge of a person's ability... its not necessarily the best method but if we dont measure grades what good way is there to know if a person is good enough for the course? a good portfolio doesnt always mean the person is good. a person who did well for his interview may not be as good as u think he is (trust me on that).
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wah lan, ltr those ah niao ah gao go in and make a din leh, then how? but sometimes the COP is really damn horrible
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Aiyoh COP system cannot be abolished one lah. Don't tell me next time JAE admisssion is you "tick your interest" and then they sort you to diff courses. Bullshit. Exams r the only way to tell your calibre and ability, you cannot perform in exams, means you dumb dumb. Even if you're not really dumb, but if you can't produce the A or the desired aggregate, you're no more than a loser. This is not what I say, but is what the society is implying.
My friend got r4 of 12 cannot get into Accountancy also. This simply means the demand is high. People should stop whinning even if they miss the coursel by one point. Granted, they can appeal, if they get the place, it is a granted privilege and NOT a right. Emaths A2 so what, no matter how hard you try you won't get anything below an A2, and PoA in Olevels is a frag/cheapstake subject where people use it for a "free A1/A2".
There are some people putting across a point that because of irrelevant subjects that pulled down the overall aggregate caused a disability to enter e course of interest. true. for example, if some1 wan to enter enginnering maybe the only relevant subjs would be emaths, amaths, physics, english. maybe even if this student may do well in these relevant subjects, he or she may get like horrible grade of d7/e8 for humanities which cause his aggregate to balloon and burst.
IMO, i think before olevels and while studyin for it. students who already have in mind what they wan to do are very advantageous over other students who are still blur blur and "study anyhow whack try luck ". If you target a course in poly and the COP is 10 points. Then you need to have a strategy on how to get that 10 pnts mah. If you aim 10 points and you can't get it, then i really nth to say. Anything u aim is can easily achieve one. If you fail to enter the course due to the lack of points, it really proves that youre determination to enter the course is not enough and is lacking. Appeal for what? No use. If you really really love the course so much, you die die also will meet the COP one.
This is really really dumb...