In memory of Shanmugam Murugesu
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Marijuana is an illegal drug in many countries. And perhaps in Canada and some US states, it is a prescription medication/drug - it is regulated. In Singapore, it is prohibited. No doubt many people consider Marijuana about as 'light' as ordinary cigarettes. But the issue here is whether it would be in the best interest to the people (whom the lawmakers are responsible to) to allow marijuana to be legalised. Is that what singaporeans(not americans) want? Don't forget you're talking about a small south-east asian city-state, not america.Originally posted by coffeegirl:Again I thank you all for your interesting replies.
I feel the major issue is that marijuana is a popular and 'light-weight' drug. Even being illegal, the penalty should not be very large. My own feeling is it should be legalized and regulated, especially given the large number of smokers world-wide.
Singapore has many good points. I am not really looking at the death penalty issue per se. It is just that there are times when the 'justice' system completely fails. I believe that is what happened with Mr. Murugesu.
If you want to bring in the justice system and its failure, truth is it didn't. It simply is what it was designed to be - Just. Justice is not "fair". It is cold, blind and also harsh. Giving leeways opens up the jaws for other similar treatment which is simply against public policy. -
Anyways , we i think we can all discuss about the laws. There is almost no way of ever changing it in our state. These discussions makes us see things clearer. Understanding issues clearer. And i only know of 2 ways of bringing about the change.
1) Revolution.. people power. LoL! but its gonna be bloody.. most probably i dont want that , its not like the system is corrupt to that point
or
2) Educate the people slowly open thier minds , and get into politics and change the system n laws from within n perhaps with enough people understanding the true nature of things n they will BAN cigarettes , Legalise Marijuana =P
And i assure u, the cigarette companies are NOT gonna be very happy.. so most likely ur life will be in danger. -
These are just further reasons why the hanging was an atrocious act.[/b][/quote]
Atrocious Act?
What is it so atrocious when more than millions of Native North Americans died on your own soil.
Who were those who murdered the helpless Native North American brothers and sisters.
The answer: Your history books have the answer
If I remember correctly the number of murdered victims: there were at 15 million
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wow... finally a post with substance.Originally posted by Martinwolf:Marijuana is an illegal drug in many countries. And perhaps in Canada and some US states, it is a prescription medication/drug - it is regulated. In Singapore, it is prohibited. No doubt many people consider Marijuana about as 'light' as ordinary cigarettes. But the issue here is whether it would be in the best interest to the people (whom the lawmakers are responsible to) to allow marijuana to be legalised. Is that what singaporeans(not americans) want? Don't forget you're talking about a small south-east asian city-state, not america.
If you want to bring in the justice system and its failure, truth is it didn't. It simply is what it was designed to be - Just. Justice is not "fair". It is cold, blind and also harsh. Giving leeways opens up the jaws for other similar treatment which is simply against public policy.
i agree. -
We have our own law...
Can't compare...
For example all indonesia chinese's are not allow to have a chinese name...
what can you do about it? -
Tip:Originally posted by BadzMaro:OMG !! ALL I WROTE IS GONE !!!
FFS.. cant be damned writing it again.. stupid login...
thats why its not that i want to beat around the bush.. its gonna take hundreds n thousands of words to summarise down to what i want to say... to explain in detail.. the reaons,
n the amount of time to write all the replies logged me off SGforums n now its all GONE!
anyways..
If you are going to take a long time to compose your post, click Preview every 5 mins, to stay logged on.
To be on the safe side, also copy your post on to the clipboard. -
Originally posted by snobbish:There was another indian guy sentenced to hang some yr ago. The trial was full of question marks and unjust. Yet, when his lawyer ask the judge:if a man is innocent, will he still be hung just for procedure purposes??
The judge:Yes.
Read the local book:Hung at Dawn ..written by the above lawyer
**The lawyer M Ravi is the lawyer also for Shanmugam Murugesu.
The book talks about the 3 cases, Vignes Mourthi (above case,shanmugan and Ngyuen Van Tuong.
Correct.Originally posted by fatslob:Now THAT, if true, is an atrocious act. TS should have picked on that case instead... but i shall reserve my own judgement until i know the facts.
We have to be circumspect about lawyer M Ravi. -
he he... yes i will remember that =POriginally posted by mancha:Tip:
If you are going to take a long time to compose your post, click Preview every 5 mins, to stay logged on.
To be on the safe side, also copy your post on to the clipboard. -
Hey maxtor!Originally posted by maxtor:dinky, why would the alcohol and cigarettes argument not be valid? both alcohol, cigarettes, and marijuana are all harmful. cigarettes and marijuana even have similar methods of consumption.
I think Laserlordz brought up a very good point about the legalising of drugs. (though he didn't mean it in that context!!)
has anyone ever considered the fact that part of the reason drugs are so highly prized in singapore is due to economics? Supply and demand. The fact that people have an incentive to smuggle drugs into singapore is because no one wants to do it, and therefore the demand is very high for both drugs, and smugglers.
what if we were to legalise marijuana? That takes the edge off the glamour factor, and drugs like marijuana will become like cigarettes. Legal but harmful. Plus, the government could impose a tax on marijuana sales, and earn revenues from it.
Of course there will be the argument of people suffering from the aftermath of the legalisation of drugs. But if our government finds it economically viable, you think they won't do it? If they can bring a casino, sorry, 2 casinos into singapore, they can pretty much do anything. It's all about the money, isn't it?
Hmm maybe I'm not that clear enough cos you don't seem to get my point.
I'm glad you agree that the 3 items are all harmful. So why should there be a reason to legalise something that is harmful? Since marijuana is harmful, it is outrightly banned. And hence, the objective of this topic created by the TS wouldn't have much argument. However, it leads to a whole new issue.
If these 3 items are equally as harmful, why aren't smoking and alcohol banned? Hence all the arguments such as economical reasons, social acceptance reasons and blah blah would come in. But you see this issue and the issue raised by the TS is linked but different.
My point is, even if the laws on smoking and alcohol are suspiciously flawed, the fact that they are not banned should not be a factor for all other drugs, inclusive of marijuana to be made legalise. As mentioned, 2 wrongs do not make 2 rights. It will be a faintly fallacious argument against the notion that the guy should not be hanged for a drug that should not be ban?
Casinos and drugs are 2 different items. Usually when we mentioned drugs, it is regarding the misuse of it. For gambling, even illegal gambling is illegal. Legal gambling is controlled. Monitored. Misuse of drugs is by itself misused and not controlled and monitored. Legalise drugs? That is leading the country to suicide. The society will be more vulnerable, ineffective, and causing all sort of social problems. The government makes money directly from legalising the drugs but it will also incur more expenses through all these social problems. Have you thought of that? The casino issue wasn't a straightforward decision. There were debates and all kind of nonsense before it was approved. Obviously, all these were to discuss and weighing the pros and cons of having casinos.. Yeah..
Hope I cleared myself.. Thanks for your feedback though.. Once again, correct me if I'm wrong.. -
I dont think Marijuana is as harmful as you guys think. It is the least harmful of drugs , and comparing to alchohol and cigarettes which poses almost NO benefits whatsoever.
Everything has pros n cons. But the Pros outweights the cons greatly for marijuana. I cant even see the pros in cigarettes except.. maybe.. destressing . Alchohol ? MmmMmm.. health benefits... maybe helps circulate the blood ? he he.. how about the costs of rehabilitaing those with lung cancer .. n many forms of cancer caused by cigarettes. Liver ? dialysis machines ? how about those ? In the end u still need Marijuana to ease the pain.
My whole point will be that why is something that is the most useful plant on this planet made illegal. Maybe by understanding its usefulness it shouldnt be so illegal n hence , Murugesu didnt have to die smuggling marijuana. Hell he wouldnt even need to smuggle anymore. Legalising it and controlling it will prevent abuse of these drugs.
What do u guys think ? -
I guess I shall lay off the effects of smoking and alcohol..Originally posted by BadzMaro:I dont think Marijuana is as harmful as you guys think. It is the least harmful of drugs , and comparing to alchohol and cigarettes which poses almost NO benefits whatsoever.
Everything has pros n cons. But the Pros outweights the cons greatly for marijuana. I cant even see the pros in cigarettes except.. maybe.. destressing . Alchohol ? MmmMmm.. health benefits... maybe helps circulate the blood ? he he.. how about the costs of rehabilitaing those with lung cancer .. n many forms of cancer caused by cigarettes. Liver ? dialysis machines ? how about those ? In the end u still need Marijuana to ease the pain.
My whole point will be that why is something that is the most useful plant on this planet made illegal. Maybe by understanding its usefulness it shouldnt be so illegal n hence , Murugesu didnt have to die smuggling marijuana. Hell he wouldnt even need to smuggle anymore. Legalising it and controlling it will prevent abuse of these drugs.
What do u guys think ?
If marijuana is as decent as you had argued it out to be, and the government here puts it in the class of other harmful drugs, you are saying that the government is crazy to not legalise marijuana? And that they have made a mistake in failing to point out the pros of marijuana over its cons?
Cheers! -
Democratic coutries are all starting to go lax on the laws already as u can see. its not that the government is stupid or gone crazy. Because they as individuals have brought themselves to think it as harmful substances. Maybe with enough education about this drug just maybe , when younger politicians takes over these rules will change. I dont expect the laws to change now. These things takes time and it has proven that these laws are starting to change. Overtime people gain knowledge and better understanding and realise the differences.Originally posted by dinky1409:I guess I shall lay off the effects of smoking and alcohol..
If marijuana is as decent as you had argued it out to be, and the government here puts it in the class of other harmful drugs, you are saying that the government is crazy to not legalise marijuana? And that they have made a mistake in failing to point out the pros of marijuana over its cons?
Cheers! -
totally agreeOriginally posted by BadzMaro:I dont think Marijuana is as harmful as you guys think. It is the least harmful of drugs , and comparing to alchohol and cigarettes which poses almost NO benefits whatsoever.
Everything has pros n cons. But the Pros outweights the cons greatly for marijuana. I cant even see the pros in cigarettes except.. maybe.. destressing . Alchohol ? MmmMmm.. health benefits... maybe helps circulate the blood ? he he.. how about the costs of rehabilitaing those with lung cancer .. n many forms of cancer caused by cigarettes. Liver ? dialysis machines ? how about those ? In the end u still need Marijuana to ease the pain.
My whole point will be that why is something that is the most useful plant on this planet made illegal. Maybe by understanding its usefulness it shouldnt be so illegal n hence , Murugesu didnt have to die smuggling marijuana. Hell he wouldnt even need to smuggle anymore. Legalising it and controlling it will prevent abuse of these drugs.
What do u guys think ? -
*nods nods*Originally posted by BadzMaro:Democratic coutries are all starting to go lax on the laws already as u can see. its not that the government is stupid or gone crazy. Because they as individuals have brought themselves to think it as harmful substances. Maybe with enough education about this drug just maybe , when younger politicians takes over these rules will change. I dont expect the laws to change now. These things takes time and it has proven that these laws are starting to change. Overtime people gain knowledge and better understanding and realise the differences. -
Ok...so its the morality of the drug. Not the morality of the hanging.Originally posted by coffeegirl:Again I thank you all for your interesting replies.
I feel the major issue is that marijuana is a popular and 'light-weight' drug. Even being illegal, the penalty should not be very large. My own feeling is it should be legalized and regulated, especially given the large number of smokers world-wide.
Singapore has many good points. I am not really looking at the death penalty issue per se. It is just that there are times when the 'justice' system completely fails. I believe that is what happened with Mr. Murugesu.
And justice system has failed. In what sense? You still has not mentioned where is has failed.
Mr Murugesu confided in you that he truly was innocent and was not transporting drugs? -
Pardon me but do you expect Singapore to make exceptions for marijuana addicts simply because you think it is a 'harmless' drug?Originally posted by coffeegirl:I have every respect for Singapore's accomplishments, education etc.
However, this matter is most certainly a terrible exception to the rule.
It sickens me to the core to have foreigners smirking at Singapore's laws that are different from their countries' laws. It just shows how young kids can go around with guns and being robbed in bright daylight is like happening in any part of their cities every 5 minutes or so.
I guess the TS will sing a different tune IF one of his/her family members suffer from the ill effects of drugs. Not now perhaps, but eventually? -
hey coffeegirl, google this: THREE STRIKES... the three strikes law in the US.. is more inhuman than anything i've ever heard of..
when in a country, obey the laws of the country...
next thing you can go try to change is the capital punishment for graft in PRC...
is corruption a 'bigger crime' than drug trafficking? -
I do not regret my 'hostility and sarcasm' to our 'new friend'.Originally posted by Detached:Viciouskitty, what's with the hostility?
TS opened a thread and shared her view pertaining to Shanmugam Murugesu's incident. This is a forum, people come in and share their views and you can agree and disagree with what was being expounded.
The sarcasm and hostility were just uncalled for.
And as much as TS is sorry for Shanmugam and you're sorry for "the LA streets that stunk so bad in summer"
I am sorry for the uniquely singaporean impression you're giving to our new friend here.
So how is it TS. Shall we meet at LA for coffee and hugs kiss to make up?
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I am neutral to the death penalty.Originally posted by Meat Pao:If I may discuss about another point... about death penalty....some people, including some posters here, are against death penalty...
I would just say...
When the human rights of many people, are pit against the human rights of 1 person, ....which one would u choose?
I think this is precisely......the case of death penalty.
Sorry.. we are living in an imperfect world.....in an ideal world, we need not have police at all, there would be no crimes at all, and everyone would live happily and harmoniously.....there would be no need for death penalty....maybe this condition still exist in some places, like some tribes in Pacific....but here in major urban centres....no.
I believe death penalty should exist for the severest act of crimes which jeopardize the basic human rights of many other people, such as.....drug trafficking, terrorism, betrayal in wartime, and other serious crimes.
I mean just take a look at the drug trafficking law here in Singapore. If u use drug for urself, u dont get death penalty........if u trade/ traffic drugs to other people, then u get death penalty.....to me, this is an accurate and philosophically correct application....of the principle.....that the basic human rights of many other people....be held above....the human rights of 1 person....
If you use drugs for urself, u get only jail sentence and maybe rehab. So the law is taking a more sympathetic view. But once a person distribute/ sell to other people, then he is not a victim himself, but a victimizer, and he is jeopardizing the basic human rights of many other people. So to me, the distiction between a user and a trafficker, and the application of death penalty only for traffickers, is very correct, and it's philosophically and strategically, at its very roots, the right thing to do. It is not wrong at all.
Meat Pao.
To me, its just an economical way of getting rid of people with capital crimes. Instead of locking them up for decades and providing them food and lodging with taxpayers' money, our govt thinks its more cost-effective to just end their lives.
There is no moral thought to this, just a pragmatic approach to it.
Of coz the official response is that death sentence is a deterrent, but we all know that there is no statistical proof that the deterrent is effective, coz the no. of people put to death every year has no trend of declining. -
hmm, they should ban cigarettes too. death penalty to smokers!!
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well id sure be a lot happier if that family member wasnt put to death obviously...Originally posted by MamaRos:Pardon me but do you expect Singapore to make exceptions for marijuana addicts simply because you think it is a 'harmless' drug?
It sickens me to the core to have foreigners smirking at Singapore's laws that are different from their countries' laws. It just shows how young kids can go around with guns and being robbed in bright daylight is like happening in any part of their cities every 5 minutes or so.
I guess the TS will sing a different tune IF one of his/her family members suffer from the ill effects of drugs. Not now perhaps, but eventually? -
laster viciouskitty74 will claw claw you and lick lick you.Originally posted by viciouskitty74:I do not regret my 'hostility and sarcasm' to our 'new friend'.
So how is it TS. Shall we meet at LA for coffee and hugs kiss to make up? -
I have to definitely agree with you on this point.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:well id sure be a lot happier if that family member wasnt put to death obviously... -
this made me think of 'smack that' de lyric got one part is "kitty cat claws" lolOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:laster viciouskitty74 will claw claw you and lick lick you. -
I like pikachu signature.....can you edit it to be kitty slapping and clawing?Originally posted by popikachu:this made me think of 'smack that' de lyric got one part is "kitty cat claws" lol