BTW you people know that the market crashed today?
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still "nothing" compared with the Prime Minister's husband's, Temasek's, "brilliant" investment in this bank...Originally posted by noahnoah:What a down flow chart sia
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ST Index
oh oh!
3,501.63 -98.04
* Last Updated : Monday, November 12, 2007 10:56:55 AMST Index
Hit the Century mark...
3,499.40 -100.27
* Last Updated : Monday, November 12, 2007 11:14:56 AMHANG SENG MAINLAND 25 IX 9,983.55 -542.00 -5.15% 22:07
HS MAINLAND FREEFLOAT IX 9,009.70 -499.50 -5.25% 22:07
HANG SENG CHINA AFF.CRP 5,824.09 -329.22 -5.35% 22:07
HANG SENG CHINA ENT INDX 16,736.67 -967.41 -5.46% 22:06
MAINLAND Indices... down 5%
NIKKEI 225 14,998.51 -584.91 -3.75% 11:47(Singapore Time
ST Index
3,489.55 -110.12
* Last Updated : Monday, November 12, 2007 12:17:55 PM -
wah! Gd gd. Me wan to play warrants liao.
Scared market no movements only. Gd stocks wun be affected much. U wanna know which 1 mah?
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if you buy warrants hor... market goes against you, you die... market don't move, you die... market move in your favor you also die if it does not move in your favor by a big enough margin... hahahaha been there, done that... I used to sell "warrants" and did all kinds of fantastic options strategies.... hahahahaha ... been there, done that...
Just remember one thing...
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH -
me oso done tat b4. U wan big gain surely got big risk. 1 thing for sure. More risk if u short than long. Me luv volatile market.
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ok seriously
i'm getting sick of this
let's get some definations straight
risk is not just a word. It describes something that can be calculated mathematically.
risk is the ratio of expected losses against expected gains. Shorting is not always riskier than having long positions. The singapore stock market unfortunately has this insane rule against shorting that increases the risk dramatically. But it is still not always the case.
leveraging does not directly affect risk. It affects risk of ruin, which is dictated by the increased volatility of the leverage.
as for andrew's dire warnings of all this "not about the market anymore, sigh" crap, i have news for you. It's always about the markets.
Markets have been around since there has been trade. You want to talk about a major depression, it's still about the market. Urging ppl not to enter in long positions at low prices because you sense a depression is ridiculous. It's borderline unethical, because you're sprouting nonsense.
Low points in the economy(depressions) are the best times to enter in long positions. WTF are you talking about.
You're against shorting, you're against long. I guess you hold cash under your pillow. -
diff pple hv diff definition of risk. As long as u know wat u r doing n taking calculated risk, u r nt as risky as pple thot u r.
Me believe nt to b greedy n cast fear aside n nt taking too big position in a single trade. U shld do fine -
hi sunnyOriginally posted by sunny3510:me oso done tat b4. U wan big gain surely got big risk. 1 thing for sure. More risk if u short than long. Me luv volatile market. 
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Happy belated birthday!Originally posted by noahnoah:hi sunny -
Shorting is akin to putting yourself in a hole and digging your way outOriginally posted by deathbait:ok seriously
i'm getting sick of this
let's get some definations straight
risk is not just a word. It describes something that can be calculated mathematically.
risk is the ratio of expected losses against expected gains. Shorting is not always riskier than having long positions. The singapore stock market unfortunately has this insane rule against shorting that increases the risk dramatically. But it is still not always the case.
leveraging does not directly affect risk. It affects risk of ruin, which is dictated by the increased volatility of the leverage.
as for andrew's dire warnings of all this "not about the market anymore, sigh" crap, i have news for you. It's always about the markets.
Markets have been around since there has been trade. You want to talk about a major depression, it's still about the market. Urging ppl not to enter in long positions at low prices because you sense a depression is ridiculous. It's borderline unethical, because you're sprouting nonsense.
Low points in the economy(depressions) are the best times to enter in long positions. WTF are you talking about.
You're against shorting, you're against long. I guess you hold cash under your pillow. -
alamak... there is a difference between risk and stupidity, in case you don't know...Originally posted by sunny3510:me oso done tat b4. U wan big gain surely got big risk. 1 thing for sure. More risk if u short than long. Me luv volatile market. -
hehehe... you should read from page one if you want to comment... otherwise you are just shooting into thin air...Originally posted by deathbait:ok seriously
i'm getting sick of this
let's get some definations straight
risk is not just a word. It describes something that can be calculated mathematically.
risk is the ratio of expected losses against expected gains. Shorting is not always riskier than having long positions. The singapore stock market unfortunately has this insane rule against shorting that increases the risk dramatically. But it is still not always the case.
leveraging does not directly affect risk. It affects risk of ruin, which is dictated by the increased volatility of the leverage.
as for andrew's dire warnings of all this "not about the market anymore, sigh" crap, i have news for you. It's always about the markets.
Markets have been around since there has been trade. You want to talk about a major depression, it's still about the market. Urging ppl not to enter in long positions at low prices because you sense a depression is ridiculous. It's borderline unethical, because you're sprouting nonsense.
Low points in the economy(depressions) are the best times to enter in long positions. WTF are you talking about.
You're against shorting, you're against long. I guess you hold cash under your pillow. -
actually i've read every post in this thread weeks ago.
you've just been conveniently sidestepping all my points.
much like you're doing now. -
I'm too young to b as conservative as u.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:alamak... there is a difference between risk and stupidity, in case you don't know...
there are money out there tat pple can earn and u cant. since u r not vested, u cant lose either. u lose wat u cant earn which i cant afford too...
becoz... I'm young -
What if "becoz... I'm young" is a very stupid reason and instead making you money, destroy your life? Think about that. That is just the beginning, the start of what you must consider.... that is just one of the thousand things that you must consider in order to be successful.Originally posted by sunny3510:I'm too young to b as conservative as u.
there are money out there tat pple can earn and u cant. since u r not vested, u cant lose either. u lose wat u cant earn which i cant afford too...
becoz... I'm young -
Singapore
[/quote]
INDEX VALUE CHANGE %CHANGE TIME STRAITS TIMES INDEX 3,454.98 -56.14 -1.60% 22:53
SINGAPORE ALL INDEX 967.07 -12.01 -1.23% 22:51 -
ST Index
3,428.26 -49.33
Volume
437.6 M
Gainers/Losers
100 / 435
SGX
13.200 -0.400
Gold Spot Price*
791.10
* Last Updated : Friday, November 16, 2007 10:11:56 AM -
Some ?s for AndrewPKYap:
1. How u see market until end of '07.
2. This sub-prime nonsense .... when will they stop talking about this.
3. The whole world seems to be okay except US ..... but why is the rest of world affected by US self-created problems.
4. Do u think the global stock markets are manipulated by a group of very powerful people from the West and Asians & others are just 'dancing' to the West's tunes. If so they are making a lot of money at our expense. -
Like for example, Singapore's Temasek's investment in Thailand's Shin Corp, Singaporeans hard earned money, our GST, ERP, HDB, those money, for example was spent to allow Thaksin to buy Manchester City football club.Originally posted by TS Kan:Some ?s for AndrewPKYap:
1. How u see market until end of '07.
2. This sub-prime nonsense .... when will they stop talking about this.
3. The whole world seems to be okay except US ..... but why is the rest of world affected by US self-created problems.
4. Do u think the global stock markets are manipulated by a group of very powerful people from the West and Asians & others are just 'dancing' to the West's tunes. If so they are making a lot of money at our expense.
If Temasek tries to sell Shin now, they might, if they are lucky get back 1/2 of the S$6 billion investment. If they don't sell, because Shin is in Thailand, they will have a difficult time and how can you make money when you are having a difficult time?
In the same way, and this time it is the USA, the USA is making fools out of the rest of the world.
What they did was, to knowingly or unknowingly sold bad "papers" but definitely risky papers to the rest of the world.
It is the most brilliant con-job that the world had ever seen. If you want to compare con-jobs... the Temasek con-job was "nothing".
The estimate of this con-job is US$100 billion to US$ 1 trillion.
What they did is this.... they lend money to people in the US (to buy house) or used their house as collateral.
Sounds very normal, right? Singaporeans owe lots of money with their house as collateral, also, right?
They problem is, those people the "syndicate" lend to, no one else would lend them because they have no money to pay.
The syndicate lend them the money and let them pay, initially, say $500/- a month... which those people can afford.
After six months, they have to pay $800/- which they might find it difficult but doable.
After nine months, they have to pay $1200/- and so on.
The thing is, many of the borrowers did not know that! They thought that it is $500 per month forever!
How is the syndicate going to make money, and how did the banks get involved you might ask....
...to be continued -
well... the syndicate then "package" all these dubious loans, backed up by houses as collateral, and sell them to the banks...
hahaha, get this, (everything is still uncertain at this point, you know) but it is possible that some of the houses are in a few "packages"....
They package say, the loans for a hundred different houses into a piece of paper or document... and then sell the piece of paper to the banks...
house number 20 to 55 could be in package A, B and C at the same time... ! hahaha...
What a con-job. First, the homeowners will not be paying back the loans, now it turns out the same house might be in a few "packages..."
.... to be continued.... -
another problem is... when the banks try to get back the houses, all they have are these pieces of papers... hahaha... how are you going to take people's houses until you can prove that you own the house. How are you going to prove that you own the house when all you have are these pieces of papers?
hahahahahahaha!!!!!! -
so now, firstly, you have loans to people that they will not be paying... then the same house is used in several packages to syndicate the loans to the banks... thirdly, the banks might not get back the houses unless they can prove to the courts that they own the properties... .... hahahahahaha!!!!! brilliant con-job...
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how did the con end up around the world?
Sometimes, you can see on top of buildings, "CAPITAL LAND"
CAPITAL LAND might or might not own the building bit instead a "trust" owns it... and CAPITAL LAND is the trusts manager....
That is to say, the building is now split into many shares (pieces of papers)... that you can trade (buy and sell...)
In the same way... the syndicated loan packages of the houses in the US can be traded.
So the banks buy and sell the "packages" to each other....
One bank can trust another bank, right? Apparently nobody asked if the papers can be trusted. On the surface it looks OK because the papers are backed up by real estate!
Why does it take so long to "evolve"?
You remember in the beginning I said that the home owners pay a little in the beginning and then more and more until a point where they cannot afford to pay?
So the problem is pushed back... they can pay in the beginning.... and everyone is happy...
As it becomes less and less affordable, more and more people cannot pay...
The problem does not surface at once... it takes time... and so the panic spreads because nobody has any idea when it will stop... and all they know is that it gets worse every month.
So the estimate ranges from US$100 billion to US$1 trillion.
The stock market, when they think that it is US$1 trillion it crashes... and when they think it is only US$ 100 billion it recovers....
hahahahhahaha... so now you have a ding dong stock markets...
but on a downward trend because... with everything so uncertain, who is so stupid as to put money into the stock market?
I ran for cover in July... but Temasel bought some more Barclays bank shares in July!
There is a difference between gross stupidity and calculated risks....
... to be continued.... -
so we have... the biggest con job in history... and through the use of Structured investment vehicle (SIV); the banks were scammed as well...
when banks get scammed, what happens?
Banks have less money to lend!
Banks stocks plunge in value!
.... and Singaporeans' money that they pay for exorbitant HDB flats, ERP, COE and so on, through the cronyism that is Temasek Holdings get channeled to foreigners...
to be continued... -
VERY, VERY, VERY INTERESTING & TRUE!Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:so we have... the biggest con job in history... and through the use of Structured investment vehicle (SIV); the banks were scammed as well...
when banks get scammed, what happens?
Banks have less money to lend!
Banks stocks plunge in value!
.... and Singaporeans' money that they pay for exorbitant HDB flats, ERP, COE and so on, through the cronyism that is Temasek Holdings get channeled to foreigners...
to be continued...
Please carry on.