What are ur expectation for the 4th university
-
Originally posted by Agenda:you come poly and see how possible it is to slack and still score more than 3.0
you have yet to even graduate from secondary school so don't talk like you know how life is in JC or Poly -
You dont have a 3.5, but you still got a poly cert that can get you a decent job. A level cert is worth shit. Poly students should already have known they are unlikely to make it into local uni when they made the choice to go to poly. Its all about making one's choices.Originally posted by Agenda:if you fail A level, you can retake and have a whole new result. if you don't get at least 3.5 in your poly results, you can't simply wait 1 year to retake, you have to retake the whole course to get your 3.5
thus poly students who wish to go to university have to mug throughout their 3 years in poly while JC students can wait til their second year til make a crashcourse for their As
Did you think of them?
why they aren't complaining? look at the number of poly students the local Unis are taking in then tell me who is worse off
Not everyone is rich enough to go overseas
And right now, I think even 3.7 might not get you into Uni -
I agree with this one. Maybe sg government can woo one of switzerland's top tourism universities to come here. Or med school, one like Duke-NUS but much bigger.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Time for specialization rather than general ones. We have 3 doing that, another private uni doing so. -
What is your opinion of the the word 'decent'? $1000 to $2000 a month? I have poly grad friends who are still earning less than $2000 after years on the job.Originally posted by Ashearo:You dont have a 3.5, but you still got a poly cert that can get you a decent job. A level cert is worth shit. Poly students should already have known they are unlikely to make it into local uni when they made the choice to go to poly. Its all about making one's choices.
A levels is worth sh.it on its merit alone but how difficult is it to secure a university place when entrance priority has always been given to them? And then when one graduates, the pay alone is worth much more than a polytechnic graduate's. Not to mention job prospects.
How many polytechnic graduates have Singaporeans seen climbing the scholarlistic ladder? Now, compare that with A level grads. who eventually move on to varsity level.
It is all about making one's choice but neither should that very choice serve to be a disadvantage in one's career down the road.
A fourth uni with more admission of poly grads will level the playing field and reduce the income and job prospects disparity. -
Don't take it too hardOriginally posted by Fireindahouse:my thought is disadvantage to jc students..
provided they mug so hard for a levels in order to get into uni and now a new uni is opening up uni admission to the poly students.. not saying that all poly students are slackers which it isn't.
but somehow the new uni would advantage the poly students will lower the overall gpa requirements for poly students from original 3.5 to about 3 or even lower.??
isnt that also granting admission and advantage to some "lucky slackers"??
then the poor jc student mug so hard when they graduate together with the addition of new graduates from the new uni they face jobs competition then in the end also suffer with a lower pay..
unfair la.. really must see those jc students really mug like statues leh.. they deserve to stand out in this society wad..
btw this is a comment from a sec 4 boy.(not taking sides on Jc or poly.)
but seriously this is how i feel..
. Since this is a fourth uni, the govt will take admission criteria very seriously.
Students who mug like hell deserve to stand out in society? Just on that merit alone? Pardon my preaching but when you have come out to work, life isn't all about getting grade As. There is something fundamentally very wrong with our education system and mentality. -
Decent pay, if you relate it to a scenario when an A level grad compares his pay to a Poly grad.Originally posted by Rock^Star:What is your opinion of the the word 'decent'? $1000 to $2000 a month? I have poly grad friends who are still earning less than $2000 after years on the job.
A levels is worth sh.it on its merit alone but how difficult is it to secure a university place when entrance priority has always been given to them? And then when one graduates, the pay alone is worth much more than a polytechnic graduate's. Not to mention job prospects.
How many polytechnic graduates have Singaporeans seen climbing the scholarlistic ladder? Now, compare that with A level grads. who eventually move on to varsity level.
It is all about making one's choice but neither should that very choice serve to be a disadvantage in one's career down the road.
A fourth uni with more admission of poly grads will level the playing field and reduce the income and job prospects disparity.
It is precisely that an A level cert is worth sh,t that is why priority is given to JC students to enter university. Poly students are TRAINED to work already, JC students are prepared for university (precisely why they are called Pre-Universities). Polytechnic by its own name already means"many skills".
If that choice will serve as a disadvantage to their future career, they should have very well thought of going to JC so they can go to university more easily. And if someone wants to be a scholar, it is already very obvious he should have taken the JC route. If the 4th uni admits more poly grads, it might not make a difference because people may regard it as a "university for poly students" and see it as a lower quality university compared to NUS, NTU, SMU. This will only make people complain again. -
I agree that there is something wrong with our education system. But im sure students that mug like hell deserve to stand out in society more than those who dont (im not aiming this at anyone). Some students are not talented, and all they can do is mug like hell. That is not their choice. They are doing the best they can already. It beats being untalented and still not willing to mug to get somewhere.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Don't take it too hard . Since this is a fourth uni, the govt will take admission criteria very seriously.
Students who mug like hell deserve to stand out in society? Just on that merit alone? Pardon my preaching but when you have come out to work, life isn't all about getting grade As. There is something fundamentally very wrong with our education system and mentality. -
AFAIK, SOTA is similar to the Sports school, O lvl... not degree level.. am i wrong??
-
Let's take an average of $1600 a month. Decent pay? Subjective but I beg to differ with the relentless rise in the cost of living.Originally posted by Ashearo:Decent pay, if you relate it to a scenario when an A level grad compares his pay to a Poly grad.
It is precisely that an A level cert is worth sh,t that is why priority is given to JC students to enter university. Poly students are TRAINED to work already, JC students are prepared for university (precisely why they are called Pre-Universities). Polytechnic by its own name already means"many skills".
If that choice will serve as a disadvantage to their future career, they should have very well thought of going to JC so they can go to university more easily. And if someone wants to be a scholar, it is already very obvious he should have taken the JC route. If the 4th uni admits more poly grads, it might not make a difference because people may regard it as a "university for poly students" and see it as a lower quality university compared to NUS, NTU, SMU. This will only make people complain again.
Simply because an A level cert is worth sh.it and that serves as the warrant for them having priorty entrance into uni, how fair is that to a poly grad? A poly grad may have good results but cannot make it into a uni and then having to play second fiddle to an A level grad who has probably done only fairly well, again......how fair is that?
Just because an A level cert is worth sh.it?
It all depends on how the govt wants to market the uni. When SMU came out, it was a place for A level rejects. After some skilful branding, it seems to have surpassed NTU and NUS. Therefore, your concerns on the 4th uni being sub standard is perhaps unfounded. -
Yes, attitude is extremely important for one to succeed in life. However, there is a difference between 1) mugging justifying a stand out in life and 2)mugging deserving a stand out in life.Originally posted by Ashearo:I agree that there is something wrong with our education system. But im sure students that mug like hell deserve to stand out in society more than those who dont (im not aiming this at anyone). Some students are not talented, and all they can do is mug like hell. That is not their choice. They are doing the best they can already. It beats being untalented and still not willing to mug to get somewhere.
1) is a blasphemy. 2) I agree. -
With regard to pay, i said compare between the A level student and the poly grad, if they both dont make it into university. The poly grad will command a MORE DECENT pay COMPARED to the A level grad.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Let's take an average of $1600 a month. Decent pay? Subjective but I beg to differ with the relentless rise in the cost of living.
Simply because an A level cert is worth sh.it and that serves as the warrant for them having priorty entrance into uni, how fair is that to a poly grad? A poly grad may have good results but cannot make it into a uni and then having to play second fiddle to an A level grad who has probably done only fairly well, again......how fair is that?
Just because an A level cert is worth sh.it?
It all depends on how the govt wants to market the uni. When SMU came out, it was a place for A level rejects. After some skilful branding, it seems to have surpassed NTU and NUS. Therefore, your concerns on the 4th uni being sub standard is perhaps unfounded.
It is not just because the A level is worth sh,t but on the basis that the government made JCs so that they were meant to educate students to enter university. And the government made polys to train students for the workforce. The government made it clear what their purposes were for. Students SHOULD HAVE considered these points before they chose to take the poly or jc route. From what i have observed, at the age of 16, most students have not planned what they want to do in future. Many enter poly or jc just because their friends are going there, or they claim they "cannot handle the stress in JC". Can't blame anyone for that.
I know it is not easy for a poly student to do well, but the general view of the public is that poly students are less stressed out due to their more relaxed/flexible time table. JC students spend everyday from 7.30am-6pm (or even later due to CCA) for 2 years slogging. If poly students do that for 3 years, i will support the stand that unis should accept equal intake.
As for the 4th university, i feel that the only way to make it recognised and well respected (even if it takes in more poly grads) is to truly specialise. The university should offer purely engineering degrees and nothing else. Or medicine, dentistry and law schools for poly grads. -
Like you said, It's a choice. JC students made the choice to take the risk, Why should poly students be punished because of that? And is $1,500 even a decent pay? I can get more working part-time.Originally posted by Ashearo:You dont have a 3.5, but you still got a poly cert that can get you a decent job. A level cert is worth shit. Poly students should already have known they are unlikely to make it into local uni when they made the choice to go to poly. Its all about making one's choices.
There are hundreds of poly graudates having GPA 3.5 or better yet only a handful make it to poly.
My question to you, Are you a male? Do you realise that guys have to serve NS? Should a guy fail his O level one time too many, You realise much it jeopardises his life? He can't simply just keep on retaking his O levels until he has good enough result to get into JC. Do you think the SAF would let him do so?
Then by what you are saying, Are we going to deprive the people with poorer results a chance to furthur their studies? What ever happened to equality? A Levels students should be given more worth? What are you? A elitist wannabe? -
Since the fact that A level certs is sh.it do not justify why poly grads should not have an equal opportunity to enter uni, then why compare oranges with apples? Comparing tertiary with tertiary would be better and in this case, a diploma with a uni degree.Originally posted by Ashearo:With regard to pay, i said compare between the A level student and the poly grad, if they both dont make it into university. The poly grad will command a MORE DECENT pay COMPARED to the A level grad.
It is not just because the A level is worth sh,t but on the basis that the government made JCs so that they were meant to educate students to enter university. And the government made polys to train students for the workforce. The government made it clear what their purposes were for. Students SHOULD HAVE considered these points before they chose to take the poly or jc route. From what i have observed, at the age of 16, most students have not planned what they want to do in future. Many enter poly or jc just because their friends are going there, or they claim they "cannot handle the stress in JC". Can't blame anyone for that.
I know it is not easy for a poly student to do well, but the general view of the public is that poly students are less stressed out due to their more relaxed/flexible time table. JC students spend everyday from 7.30am-6pm (or even later due to CCA) for 2 years slogging. If poly students do that for 3 years, i will support the stand that unis should accept equal intake.
As for the 4th university, i feel that the only way to make it recognised and well respected (even if it takes in more poly grads) is to truly specialise. The university should offer purely engineering degrees and nothing else. Or medicine, dentistry and law schools for poly grads.
There is no one size fits all solution. While there is some truth that poly students should have considered their options carefully if this was the route that they had wanted to take, there shouldn't be any complaints, it doesn't obscure the fact that A levels and polytechnic have an altogether different curriculum and culture. Then in this case, can a poly student be discriminated against just because he deems the poly culture as more suitable for his advancement?
It is the quality, not the quantity. If the criteria for uni entrance is based on a rigorous schedule, then the Singapore education system has truly failed. -
Again you do not comprehend my point on the pay. If they dont get into uni, the poly student will get a MORE decent pay COMPARED to the A level student. So if they have the same job, the poly student will get 1500 and the A level student may get 1200. Comparatively more decent.Originally posted by Agenda:Like you said, It's a choice. JC students made the choice to take the risk, Why should poly students be punished because of that? And is $1,500 even a decent pay? I can get more working part-time.
There are hundreds of poly graudates having GPA 3.5 or better yet only a handful make it to poly.
My question to you, Are you a male? Do you realise that guys have to serve NS? Should a guy fail his O level one time too many, You realise much it jeopardises his life? He can't simply just keep on retaking his O levels until he has good enough result to get into JC. Do you think the SAF would let him do so?
Then by what you are saying, Are we going to deprive the people with poorer results a chance to furthur their studies? What ever happened to equality? A Levels students should be given more worth? What are you? A elitist wannabe?
I am a male and i understand the situation. It is the same thing with the JC student failing his A levels again and again and yet he cant make into Uni, but he is still stuck with a sh,tty cert. And if he fails again and again, it is already a sign that he is not suited for university.
We are an equal society, meaning everyone starts off with equal opportunities. After the start, you cannot expect equality because singapore is a meritocratic society. If everyone is equal, there will be no leaders, no rich or poor. Equality will exist only in Heaven (even then its not exactly true because God is still higher) If the universities are accepting more "students with poorer results" then its going to further dilute the value of a degree. We cannot avoid the fact that singapore is becoming more and more elitist. All the more people should think before they make their choices. With regard to elitist-wannabe, that is just unjustified. Universities are MEANT for the elites of today's society. If any tom dick and harry can get in, then what is the point at all? So are you calling the Ivy league universities elitist just because they only accept the top notch students?
And no one is depriving people with poor results, of their education. They can still go to private universities here. -
I am comparing Poly and JCs because that is the point where students truly have to make a choice. It is the branching point.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Since the fact that A level certs do not justify why poly grads should not have an equal opportunity to enter uni, then why compare oranges with apples? Comparing tertiary with tertiary would be better and in this case, a diploma with a uni degree.
There is no one size fits all solution. While there is some truth that poly students should have considered their options carefully if this was the route that they had wanted to take, there shouldn't be any complaints, it doesn't obscure the fact that A levels and polytechnic have an altogether different curriculum and culture. Then in this case, can a poly student be discriminated against just because he deems the poly culture as more suitable for his advancement?
It is the quality, not the quantity. If the criteria for uni entrance is based on a rigorous schedule, then the Singapore education system has truly failed.
The poly student should not, and is not discriminated against just because he deems the poly culture more suitable. Since he has already "deemed it more suitable" he would have accepted the fact that he is unlikely to make it into university. That factor is part of his acceptance.
Of course it is based on quality and not quantity. What if you were to compare both quality AND quantity? Poly students would have spent quality time in that few hrs they spend in sch everyday, but JC students would have spent quality time AND quantity. It is not that the uni entrance is based on a rigorous schedule, but JC itself has a rigorous schedule just so students are ready for the kind of rigorous schedules in university. -
This post, my friend has just made you little different from our elitist leaders.Originally posted by Ashearo:We are an equal society, meaning everyone starts off with equal opportunities. After the start, you cannot expect equality because singapore is a meritocratic society. If everyone is equal, there will be no leaders, no rich or poor. Equality will exist only in Heaven (even then its not exactly true because God is still higher) If the universities are accepting more "students with poorer results" then its going to further dilute the value of a degree. We cannot avoid the fact that singapore is becoming more and more elitist. All the more people should think before they make their choices. With regard to elitist-wannabe, that is just unjustified. Universities are MEANT for the elites of today's society. If any tom dick and harry can get in, then what is the point at all? So are you calling the Ivy league universities elitist just because they only accept the top notch students?
There is a stark difference between eliticism and social hierachy. Eliticism is bane for this country as it only serves to widen the rich-poor divide while the latter is only a nature of life. Every society has a hierachy to fill but eliticism serves to only stretch it further.
Universities are only meant for elites? Then think of the evil that eliticism breeds first. -
Poly sch fees approx. 6k for 3 years.
JC sch fees how much? I dunno...never study JC before...
How can forget about ITE grad?
1.6k for diploma holders is considered as executive level.= NO OT pay.
1.6k for ITE holders is not considered as executive level. = Can get OT pay.
1.6k for JC grad is what? I dunno....
Why compared JC & Poly again? ITE shld be included also wat... -
It is a thin line in between. I am all for equality, but it is not possible. It is not within our control. The rich will wanna get richer. But no one can stop them. All i can say is, work hard, and dont complain if you dont do well enough. If you wanna go to university, work hard in JC, or work DAMN HARD in poly. Things are unlikely to change.Originally posted by Rock^Star:This post, my friend has just made you little different from our elitist leaders.
There is a stark difference between eliticism and social hierachy. Eliticism is bane for this country as it only serves to widen the rich-poor divide while the latter is only a nature of life. Every society has a hierachy to fill but eliticism serves to only stretch it further.
Universities are only meant for elites? Then think of the evil that eliticism breeds first. -
Originally posted by Ashearo:Again you do not comprehend my point on the pay. If they dont get into uni, the poly student will get a MORE decent pay COMPARED to the A level student. So if they have the same job, the poly student will get 1500 and the A level student may get 1200. Comparatively more decent.
>> Sure or not? Many years back, 3~4 years ago, i asking for 1.5k, but got a degree holder asking for 1.2k....an zua gong?
I am a male and i understand the situation. It is the same thing with the JC student failing his A levels again and again and yet he cant make into Uni, but he is still stuck with a sh,tty cert. And if he fails again and again, it is already a sign that he is not suited for university.
We are an equal society, meaning everyone starts off with equal opportunities. After the start, you cannot expect equality because singapore is a meritocratic society. If everyone is equal, there will be no leaders, no rich or poor. Equality will exist only in Heaven (even then its not exactly true because God is still higher) If the universities are accepting more "students with poorer results" then its going to further dilute the value of a degree. We cannot avoid the fact that singapore is becoming more and more elitist. All the more people should think before they make their choices. With regard to elitist-wannabe, that is just unjustified. Universities are MEANT for the elites of today's society. >>Good academic results = elites?
If any tom dick and harry can get in, then what is the point at all? So are you calling the Ivy league universities elitist just because they only accept the top notch students?
And no one is depriving people with poor results, of their education. They can still go to private universities here. -
A poly grad who most likely cannot make it to the local uni may have to be stuck with a pay sub $2000 for many years. An A level grad who most probably can make it to uni will eventually earn much more than that and better job prospects to boot? Just what are we discussing if you insist on this fixation on your "branching point"?Originally posted by Ashearo:I am comparing Poly and JCs because that is the point where students truly have to make a choice. It is the branching point.
The poly student should not, and is not discriminated against just because he deems the poly culture more suitable. Since he has already "deemed it more suitable" he would have accepted the fact that he is unlikely to make it into university. That factor is part of his acceptance.
Of course it is based on quality and not quantity. What if you were to compare both quality AND quantity? Poly students would have spent quality time in that few hrs they spend in sch everyday, but JC students would have spent quality time AND quantity. It is not that the uni entrance is based on a rigorous schedule, but JC itself has a rigorous schedule just so students are ready for the kind of rigorous schedules in university.
Accept "this factor" just as simple as ABC? It is often a tough dilemma for poly students with lofty asporations but do not want to feel limited by the A levels curriculum at the same time.
A poly course is 3 years. Quality and quantity, blood and sweat of an A level student no less. -
Pay scenario -> I'm saying BOTH poly and A level student CANNOT GET INTO UNIVERSITY. They are stuck with poly cert and A level cert respectively. Poly student will have better prospects.Originally posted by Rock^Star:A poly grad who most likely cannot make it to the local uni may have to be stuck with a pay sub $2000 for many years. An A level grad who most probably can make it to uni will eventually earn much more than that and better job prospects to boot? Just what are we discussing if you insist on this fixation on your "branching point"?
Accept "this factor" just as simple as ABC? It is often a tough dilemma for poly students with lofty asporations but do not want to feel limited by the A levels curriculum at the same time.
A poly course is 3 years. Quality and quantity, blood and sweat of an A level student no less.
You said just now that we should be comparing the tertiary institutes, poly and uni (poly cert and degree). But i disagreed. i chose to compare poly and jc because these two institutions are where secondary students go to, and these two routes lead to university.
Poly course is 3 years, but if you compact it into a 7.30am-6pm, 5-day week, it wont be that long. -
Good academic results do not mean elites, but students from JC going into university are more or less already well rounded. Good academics, good CCAs.Originally posted by dcx: -
They shouldnt feel limited by the A level curriculum because they know that it is the easier route to university, the easier route to LIMITLESS achievements, where they can achieve their lofty aspirations. By choosing the poly route they are extending their limit for the moment, but ultimately limiting themselves more than A level students.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Accept "this factor" just as simple as ABC? It is often a tough dilemma for poly students with lofty asporations but do not want to feel limited by the A levels curriculum at the same time. -
think got classes until 9pm~10pm...Originally posted by Ashearo:Pay scenario -> I'm saying BOTH poly and A level student CANNOT GET INTO UNIVERSITY. They are stuck with poly cert and A level cert respectively. Poly student will have better prospects.
You said just now that we should be comparing the tertiary institutes, poly and uni (poly cert and degree). But i disagreed. i chose to compare poly and jc because these two institutions are where secondary students go to, and these two routes lead to university.
Poly course is 3 years, but if you compact it into a 7.30am-6pm, 5-day week, it wont be that long.
It's just that in a poly, easier to pon10 than in JC.. -
For one who advocates that poly grad's pay is decent compared to an A level grad's pay when the relentless rise in cost of living is staring all Singaporeans right in their faces, now we see an about turn from you declaring your support for equality.Originally posted by Ashearo:It is a thin line in between. I am all for equality, but it is not possible. It is not within our control. The rich will wanna get richer. But no one can stop them. All i can say is, work hard, and dont complain if you dont do well enough. If you wanna go to university, work hard in JC, or work DAMN HARD in poly. Things are unlikely to change.
The current system is such that even if one works hard and does fairly well in poly, he is still less assured of a place in uni compared to an A level student who has done poorer. And this vicious cycle carries on all the way into working life, if one works in civil service, that is.
This opening of the fourth uni will ony serve to to tilt the balance into a more level playing ground and I'm all for it.....if it serves to make Singapore a more mature society.