Are they OVER-REACTING?
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IOriginally posted by LatecomerX:There are many ways for people to speak up for their own rights. It is not necessary to reject an offer by saying "I'm so-and-so. Anyone got a problem with that?".
And TS, eh, I suppose you're one of the non-hostile clones (as opposed to teh rapper) around. I suggest you should just change your username for your own sake la, k?
I agree there are better ways to speak up for their rights.
But first got to see the context - to begin with, why was the offer made without the sensitivity in the first place?
My muslim friends tell me sometimes when their friends arrange to go to a non halal place, then ask them - they just end up not going cos they don't want to kick up a fuss, and they feel sidelined and if they speak up to request, they get met with a 'har? Oh, like that ha? must organise with everyone again"
meet enough circumstances like that is enough to make anyone retort frustratedly. There are a lot of insensitive people out there, people end up defensive becos of these people. So how? -
never had a problem, maybe becoz they are my frens
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exactlyOriginally posted by de_middle:never had a problem, maybe becoz they are my frens 
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my muslim friends very flexible, i can joke with them regarding pork stuffs
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agreed that there are better ways to speak up for your own rights without any hint of hostility. i believe this can also be done when any insensitive remarks/actions come your way.Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:I
I agree there are better ways to speak up for their rights.
But first got to see the context - to begin with, why was the offer made without the sensitivity in the first place?
My muslim friends tell me sometimes when their friends arrange to go to a non halal place, then ask them - they just end up not going cos they don't want to kick up a fuss, and they feel sidelined and if they speak up to request, they get met with a 'har? Oh, like that ha? must organise with everyone again"
meet enough circumstances like that is enough to make anyone retort frustratedly. There are a lot of insensitive people out there, people end up defensive becos of these people. So how?
The 'difficulty to plan for everyone' reasoning happens all the time. But when we ask for everyones 'understanding', we also have 'why dont you try to plan'/'what better sugestions do u have?'/'you think its so easy?'. in most cases there always seems to be some bittersweet compromise. frustration might grow over time.
so it gets tough when planning things: when one organises an event, the 1st thing that often pops to mind is 'what about the muslims?', seldom 'what about the Jews/christians/buddhists/taoists/hindus/vegetarians/disabled/old/whatever'. they kinda demand a higher level of 'understanding' and 'considerate-ness' from us -
so it gets tough when planning things: when one organises an event, the 1st thing that often pops to mind is 'what about the muslims?', seldom 'what about the Jews/christians/buddhists/taoists/hindus/vegetarians/disabled/old/whatever'. they kinda demand a higher level of 'understanding' and 'considerate-ness' from us
Maybe you are saying this because you don't really understand the religion. They have to abide by the rules just like the other religions, it's just that they have a few more rules than the other religions but they don't make life difficult for others.
If it really gets on your nerves that your friends are acting that way, why don't you just ask them why? Just add a better tone to it and they won't think you are looking for trouble. [/quote] -
I know I will hit a raw nerve,but I wish to highlight the following. Muslims are not supposed to fight muslims as they are brothers right? Look at that incident where a grp. of malays beat to death a fellow malay biker. Aren't they all muslims? Also, during NDP, there was fireworks and I saw malay youths, drinking beer and all while waiting and touching their girlfriends, and even sticking their hands up their blouses in public. Next the fasting period was just over, i had muslim frens who knew they were supposed to fast, but they didn't and on top of that...when we went to a pub after work, the 2 of them wanted to follow, and drank whiskey with us. Lastly...the thing which irks me most, is when there's work to be done, they eat snake, say have to go mosque pray. I mean, we usually schedule our meetings from Mon to Thu, and if its Friday, its usually around 3, though we try not to because we would rather be out on a Friday after school. Can the muslim forumnites here educate me, if its necessary for you to visit the mosque everyday?Because when I told them off about their work attitude, they said I'm racist, and don't respect their religion, WTF rite?
Thanks,
SpecOps87 -
wad u said is true, they (not all) like to do wad they wan, and are (again not all) spoilt by their parentsOriginally posted by SpecOps87:I know I will hit a raw nerve,but I wish to highlight the following. Muslims are not supposed to fight muslims as they are brothers right? Look at that incident where a grp. of malays beat to death a fellow malay biker. Aren't they all muslims? Also, during NDP, there was fireworks and I saw malay youths, drinking beer and all while waiting and touching their girlfriends, and even sticking their hands up their blouses in public. Next the fasting period was just over, i had muslim frens who knew they were supposed to fast, but they didn't and on top of that...when we went to a pub after work, the 2 of them wanted to follow, and drank whiskey with us. Lastly...the thing which irks me most, is when there's work to be done, they eat snake, say have to go mosque pray. I mean, we usually schedule our meetings from Mon to Thu, and if its Friday, its usually around 3, though we try not to because we would rather be out on a Friday after school. Can the muslim forumnites here educate me, if its necessary for you to visit the mosque everyday?Because when I told them off about their work attitude, they said I'm racist, and don't respect their religion, WTF rite?
Thanks,
SpecOps87 -
it could also be simply that you have more muslim friends than vegetarian or watever friends?Originally posted by CUM ON MY FACE:agreed that there are better ways to speak up for your own rights without any hint of hostility. i believe this can also be done when any insensitive remarks/actions come your way.
The 'difficulty to plan for everyone' reasoning happens all the time. But when we ask for everyones 'understanding', we also have 'why dont you try to plan'/'what better sugestions do u have?'/'you think its so easy?'. in most cases there always seems to be some bittersweet compromise. frustration might grow over time.
so it gets tough when planning things: when one organises an event, the 1st thing that often pops to mind is 'what about the muslims?', seldom 'what about the Jews/christians/buddhists/taoists/hindus/vegetarians/disabled/old/whatever'. they kinda demand a higher level of 'understanding' and 'considerate-ness' from us
I have lots of colleagues working with me who are vegetarian. Most muslims are comfortable with wholly vegetarian restaurant so most of my company functions at vegetarian places. -
The ones that you are talking about usually comes from less fortunate families who don't really care what happens to their children. Just like when you leave a child to his/her own devices without any supervision whatsoever, what will happen to him/her?Originally posted by SpecOps87:I know I will hit a raw nerve,but I wish to highlight the following. Muslims are not supposed to fight muslims as they are brothers right? Look at that incident where a grp. of malays beat to death a fellow malay biker. Aren't they all muslims? Also, during NDP, there was fireworks and I saw malay youths, drinking beer and all while waiting and touching their girlfriends, and even sticking their hands up their blouses in public. Next the fasting period was just over, i had muslim frens who knew they were supposed to fast, but they didn't and on top of that...when we went to a pub after work, the 2 of them wanted to follow, and drank whiskey with us. Lastly...the thing which irks me most, is when there's work to be done, they eat snake, say have to go mosque pray. I mean, we usually schedule our meetings from Mon to Thu, and if its Friday, its usually around 3, though we try not to because we would rather be out on a Friday after school. Can the muslim forumnites here educate me, if its necessary for you to visit the mosque everyday?Because when I told them off about their work attitude, they said I'm racist, and don't respect their religion, WTF rite?
Thanks,
SpecOps87
And no, it is not compulsory for them to go to the mosque everyday but men have to on fridays to perform their friday prayers and this is usually around 1+, I admit that some would use their religion as a ruse to escape from work, but not all are like that.
That's why you're told to choose your friends wisely.
Sometimes I wonder what happened to those youths. -
Originally posted by saltandpepper:
I disagree on the your argument that those that behave that way are from less fortunate families. Some are from fairly well to do families but can't give a damn to whats happening around them. And given that they are in their late teens or early adulthood, they have a choice, and are to make sound judgments on their own. For your explanation, it seems that if you break the law because your upbringing is unsupervised, than your parents should do your time or serve your time with you.
The ones that you are talking about usually comes from less fortunate families who don't really care what happens to their children. Just like when you leave a child to his/her own devices without any supervision whatsoever, what will happen to him/her?
And no, it is not compulsory for them to go to the mosque everyday but [b]men have to on fridays to perform their friday prayers and this is usually around 1+, I admit that some would use their religion as a ruse to escape from work, but not all are like that.
That's why you're told to choose your friends wisely.
Sometimes I wonder what happened to those youths.[/b]
Correct me if I'm wrong, during the fasting period, from sunrise till sunset, our muslim friends are not supposed to eat, drink, smoke or indulge in pleasures of the flesh, yes? Than tell me, why do I see them doing just that? And the last one about pleasures of the flesh, was done openly and freely in a park? Isn't there some Islamic law that prohibits close proximity between a male and a female that are unwed?
Lastly, yes, the ruse of using religion to escape work got so bad, I had to make an attendance sheet for the whole team to sign when we have project work meetings. Or have submissions at night. Because this guy told me that he has to go to the mosque at night, when we are all rushing our projects for submission due at 0900hrs the next morning. Tell me is that required? I'm very against the fact that people use religion as a reason to escape their duties or to reach a certain agenda. Tell me whats the difference between him and Osama? Both bend religion in the way they deem fit so that it will suit their needs and meet their agendas. -
Aren't u overreacting doing this?
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it isn't a necessity for one to pray at the mosque anytime during the day, although it is better to do so. but it is not a necessity lah. if you can, good. but if cannot, it's okay. but for fridays it is compulsory for the men to perform midday prayers at a mosque.Originally posted by SpecOps87:I disagree on the your argument that those that behave that way are from less fortunate families. Some are from fairly well to do families but can't give a damn to whats happening around them. And given that they are in their late teens or early adulthood, they have a choice, and are to make sound judgments on their own. For your explanation, it seems that if you break the law because your upbringing is unsupervised, than your parents should do your time or serve your time with you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, during the fasting period, from sunrise till sunset, our muslim friends are not supposed to eat, drink, smoke or indulge in pleasures of the flesh, yes? Than tell me, why do I see them doing just that? And the last one about pleasures of the flesh, was done openly and freely in a park? Isn't there some Islamic law that prohibits close proximity between a male and a female that are unwed?
Lastly, yes, the ruse of using religion to escape work got so bad, I had to make an attendance sheet for the whole team to sign when we have project work meetings. Or have submissions at night. Because this guy told me that he has to go to the mosque at night, when we are all rushing our projects for submission due at 0900hrs the next morning. Tell me is that required? I'm very against the fact that people use religion as a reason to escape their duties or to reach a certain agenda. Tell me whats the difference between him and Osama? Both bend religion in the way they deem fit so that it will suit their needs and meet their agendas.
about the 'muslims-doing-improper-things' bit like not fasting during fasting month, being up to hanky-panky in public, consuming alcohol, et al, well, I'm sure you know that some people are muslim in name only but not in practice, right? it depends on individuals, and is not subject to any demographic or psychographic traits. -
So...technically I can give the finger to tt prick who always try to pull the same stunt to escape work by saying he has to pray right?
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I encounter the same thing as you before. This friend of mine, by addressing her as FRIEND, I think I am very kind to her already. She's a rojakOriginally posted by gUms:And one thing i notice about them , is they are always the one criticizing other religion , and sometimes infront of ppl .... but just try to shoot one back at them , they start getting agressive.
Religion is just between me and god !!! not you , he , she , me and god.
And what you believe in , doesnt means i have to belive it too.
Peace out. ...that's duno what mixed with what, she think so highly of herself. Always try to find fault with my religious. I mean, come on, it's ok if she don't understand/like my religious but at least respect it. She loves to criticise and find fault with it 
. Best is, whenever she challenge me with question rgd my religious, the answer which i gave she nv accept it and she'll reply with harsh tone.
She told me before she as a muslim, should not do things that is not of the teaching from Allah but I doubt so. She's even confess that she ate pork, having intimate relation with bf etc
. May I ask? Is consuming Pork consider a sin to Allah? If yes, then why so she took it? 
Obviously, she's a hypocrite! Of all the malay friends I have regardless of guys or gals, she is the most "unbearable" one.
And if I shoot her back, she don't like it and warn me not to do it again but don't you think she's a bit loose up there?Expecting me to respect her religious BUT she herself on the other hand kept criticising my faith?
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Tio lor tio lor...dun need me to give further examples. For me...I'm born into a Buddhist family, but when people ask me I will tell them I'm a freethinker and make a joke saying that I'm a cheapo cuz by being free, i'm free to be blessed by all the higher beings. I listen and learn from others religions, and I refrain from commenting on them. But sometimes...people go overboard about it.What to do?Originally posted by whyrush:I encounter the same thing as you before. This friend of mine, by addressing her as FRIEND, I think I am very kind to her already. She's a rojak ...that's duno what mixed with what, she think so highly of herself. Always try to find fault with my religious. I mean, come on, it's ok if she don't understand/like my religious but at least respect it. She loves to criticise and find fault with it . Best is, whenever she challenge me with question rgd my religious, the answer which i gave she nv accept it and she'll reply with harsh tone.
She told me before she as a muslim, should not do things that is not of the teaching from Allah but I doubt so. She's even confess that she ate pork, having intimate relation with bf etc . May I ask? Is consuming Pork consider a sin to Allah? If yes, then why so she took it? Obviously, she's a hypocrite! Of all the malay friends I have regardless of guys or gals, she is the most "unbearable" one.
And if I shoot her back, she don't like it and warn me not to do it again but don't you think she's a bit loose up there?Expecting me to respect her religious BUT she herself on the other hand kept criticising my faith? -
That is why I put the word usually.Originally posted by SpecOps87:I disagree on the your argument that those that behave that way are from less fortunate families. Some are from fairly well to do families but can't give a damn to whats happening around them. And given that they are in their late teens or early adulthood, they have a choice, and are to make sound judgments on their own. For your explanation, it seems that if you break the law because your upbringing is unsupervised, than your parents should do your time or serve your time with you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, during the fasting period, from sunrise till sunset, our muslim friends are not supposed to eat, drink, smoke or indulge in pleasures of the flesh, yes? Than tell me, why do I see them doing just that? And the last one about pleasures of the flesh, was done openly and freely in a park? Isn't there some Islamic law that prohibits close proximity between a male and a female that are unwed?
Lastly, yes, the ruse of using religion to escape work got so bad, I had to make an attendance sheet for the whole team to sign when we have project work meetings. Or have submissions at night. Because this guy told me that he has to go to the mosque at night, when we are all rushing our projects for submission due at 0900hrs the next morning. Tell me is that required? I'm very against the fact that people use religion as a reason to escape their duties or to reach a certain agenda. Tell me whats the difference between him and Osama? Both bend religion in the way they deem fit so that it will suit their needs and meet their agendas.
And I agree with Tiggerific, muslim in name but not in practice. -
Anything constructive to add?Originally posted by Daisuke-kun:Aren't u overreacting doing this?
Do you want people to overreact outside this forum?
I hav to agree that it is such a shame for certain muslims to use religion as a ruse. It makes working with them such an awful pain (because you know they'll just choose the 'best' time to AWOL). Most of us have the understanding that ONLY friday prayers are 'compulsory'.
Interestingly, these exact people who use religion to run away do not actually do their prayers when they are 'free'. ie. they are playing soccer or doing other hobbies (i've caught them before, but of course was smart enough not to confront them). -
Precisely..caught tt bugger and his gf pak-toring at Orchard cuz we decided to change frm school to Spinelli @ Heeren tt's more convenient for the rest.Originally posted by CUM ON MY FACE:Interestingly, these exact people who use religion to run away do not actually do their prayers when they are 'free'. ie. they are playing soccer or doing other hobbies (i've caught them before, but of course was smart enough not to confront them). -
Don't confuse inethical people with the ethics they claim they believe in.
Don't confuse immoral people, with the moralities they wave.
Dont judge a belief system because of the people who claim they believe in it.
simply cos even though everyone may know what is good, not everyone is good ALL of the time.
That does not mean a good action is no longer good simply because people who knows what should be done, don't DO IT.