Sign on is good in SAF(depends on vocation)
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Well, Mr Simon, as far as I am concerned, I have answered your questions, but you have chosen not to recognize them. So I will leave them be as your personal opinion and point of view is already encased in iron.Originally posted by Simon the Snow Blower:A person who don't wish to work yet hope to get high pay is consider mature. I really wonder how mature you are.
You got the cheek to tell me to debate with an open mind. See carefully who is the one who refuse to open his mind. There is no right or wrong, so why Larry want to find problem with my first post if he feels there is nothing wrong with my post? I believe I deserve to have my opinion posted here. I choose to post my view here and look at what nonsense Larry replied me. He is obviously avoiding some of my question which are facts and he is unable to answer. Open your eyes and read carefully before commenting.
I am not finding problems with your first post, but rather expressing another point of view. Do learn not to see things from a stubborn point of view. Learn to take criticisms and comments well.
Since you think my replies are nonsense, then that's too bad. I will not force you to read any further. The mood is already lost in this dicussion.
Anyone can post their comments here. There's how we generate a discussion. But you have chosen to take the path whereby any form of criticisms or comments to your opinion as negative. You might wanna reflect on that.
No one is perfect. So I accept you as what you are. But I do hope you might wanna take things in a more diversed manner. It helps a lot in your future life.
And also for your info, you don't even know me and yet you are slandering comments behind me. That only goes to show what type of person you are. I rest my case. -
You insist you answer my question, that is what you insist. To me, you avoided most of my question which you unable to answer.Originally posted by Larry:Well, Mr Simon, as far as I am concerned, I have answered your questions, but you have chosen not to recognize them. So I will leave them be as your personal opinion and point of view is already encased in iron.
I am not finding problems with your first post, but rather expressing another point of view. Do learn not to see things from a stubborn point of view. Learn to take criticisms and comments well.
Since you think my replies are nonsense, then that's too bad. I will not force you to read any further. The mood is already lost in this dicussion.
Anyone can post their comments here. There's how we generate a discussion. But you have chosen to take the path whereby any form of criticisms or comments to your opinion as negative. You might wanna reflect on that.
No one is perfect. So I accept you as what you are. But I do hope you might wanna take things in a more diversed manner. It helps a lot in your future life.
And also for your info, you don't even know me and yet you are slandering comments behind me. That only goes to show what type of person you are. I rest my case.
If there is nothing wrong with my first post, than why would you want to express it in another point of view? I have the right to entitle to my own view. If your point of view is true and correct, I will take it. Just look at your nonsense view. All your points can't stand at all. You expect me to take nonsense view?
I doubt your mood will be lost. I believe you will still reply. Since you so free to correct my point of view, than why not you go correct I Am Twat's view? I believe you should have plenty of things to say regarding his view. I am waiting for you to see what you got to comment on another point of view on his post.
As I already said. You want to discuss, you bring up some good point. Right from the start you throw words into my mouth. Next when I debate back, you reply me with nonsense. Avoid those questions you unable to answer. Give me all the points and comparasion which cannot stand. I believe you should also do some reflection on yourself about this points. Or perhaps I believe you will avoid all this points also.
What right do you have to tell me what to do? To me if you don't know how to debate, don't debate. When you lose, you say all this type of things to act as if you very old as if you very successful. Don't give me all this crap Larry. Don't give me more chance to slander you.
You already prove to me what type of a person you are in your reply. You deserve to be slander. You want I can slander you even more. -
Well, if u choose to take it that way, I have nothing more to add on. Each person is entitled to their own views. Let's take it as SAF has its own good points and bad points, and only those who chose their own career paths will get to decide whether they like it or not.Originally posted by Simon the Snow Blower:You insist you answer my question, that is what you insist. To me, you avoided most of my question which you unable to answer.
If there is nothing wrong with my first post, than why would you want to express it in another point of view? I have the right to entitle to my own view. If your point of view is true and correct, I will take it. Just look at your nonsense view. All your points can't stand at all. You expect me to take nonsense view?
I doubt your mood will be lost. I believe you will still reply. Since you so free to correct my point of view, than why not you go correct I Am Twat's view? I believe you should have plenty of things to say regarding his view. I am waiting for you to see what you got to comment on another point of view on his post.
As I already said. You want to discuss, you bring up some good point. Right from the start you throw words into my mouth. Next when I debate back, you reply me with nonsense. Avoid those questions you unable to answer. Give me all the points and comparasion which cannot stand. I believe you should also do some reflection on yourself about this points. Or perhaps I believe you will avoid all this points also.
What right do you have to tell me what to do? To me if you don't know how to debate, don't debate. When you lose, you say all this type of things to act as if you very old as if you very successful. Don't give me all this crap Larry. Don't give me more chance to slander you.
You already prove to me what type of a person you are in your reply. You deserve to be slander. You want I can slander you even more.
You are getting very subjective here. I am not entitled to bother what you like to slander about me. Well, it's up to your own creativity. After all, this is only text-based and on the Internet.
I will stop this discussion to keep our relationship on a friendly basis. Let's not get too nasty over some topic which can have diverse views.
And a good day to you. -
So the discussion is at an end and there maybe a misguided notion that you withdrew because you sense you were losing,no?hehe
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour
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Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
Well, Then I lose lor.Originally posted by moose:So the discussion is at an end and there maybe a misguided notion that you withdrew because you sense you were losing,no?hehe
Anyway, for those who are interested, I found this.
http://www.sgforums.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000041.html
Interested personnel can go and take a look for more opinions.
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I like your first point of this post. That should be the way. And now here once again I insist that SAF is not worth to sign on. I believe I am entitle to this view.Originally posted by Larry:Well, if u choose to take it that way, I have nothing more to add on. Each person is entitled to their own views. Let's take it as SAF has its own good points and bad points, and only those who chose their own career paths will get to decide whether they like it or not.
You are getting very subjective here. I am not entitled to bother what you like to slander about me. Well, it's up to your own creativity. After all, this is only text-based and on the Internet.
I will stop this discussion to keep our relationship on a friendly basis. Let's not get too nasty over some topic which can have diverse views.
And a good day to you.
Since you take it this way, that will be the best for both of us. You are already stuck into the mud and wouldn't take in other point of view. You will only keep saying yours is the best. When other wouldn't accept your point of view you say people don't take things objectively. You can also make your claim. I still stick to my view about you.
If you let me have my point of view express freely here right from the start, I believe things wouldn't get so bad. You are the one who ask for it right from start.
I surely have many many good days as long you don't bother me. -
I read Mr Simon and Mr Larry posts. I felt that I should also deserve my point of view. Now Mr Moose, what you not happy with? Finding my fault also? I stick to my point of view. To sign on, make sure you love the regimental life.Originally posted by moose:Nope,i still stand by my views that to love the forces,you need to love your vocation and the regimental life.Just because you love the forces don't mean you only love the regimental life and not the vocation.Every job has sh*t, and i have already quoted 1 example of my colleague who loved his vocation,but hated the regimental life and generally,his love of the vocation overpowerered his disdain of the regimental life to make him a generally satisfied person in the SAF,he also pretty much enjoys his career becos of his love of his vocation is great enough to overlook his disdain of the regimental life.
As for the working world,i know it's tough in some aspects and some aspects can be worse than working in the SAF.But all in all,Both the SAF and the working world have their set of sh*t,only thing is that it's different sh*t.My main grouse with the SAF is the regimental life of which i hate so much that i am willing to put up with the sh*t of the working just to get away from the regimental life.So the working world is better for me.As for other people,their disdain of the regimental life may not be as great as mine,so they may not be willing to put up with the sh*t of the working world just to get away from regimental life,so to them,working world may be comparable to joining the SAF,heehe
There are people who love regimental life but dislike his vocation, they still seems very happy. The example you quoted about your friend is only some small example. Why not you mention some of the more common view about people who regretted signing on?
Everywhere, there will be shit. The only difference is whether you can get away from it or not. In SAF, you definitely cannot get away from it. You yourself also can't stand regimental life and regretted signing on. Just see, in this thread, those who say sign on is good are those people who didn't sign on or regretted signing on. They themself got no intention to sign on or continue their contract yet keep saying this is good that is good with just a peanut of example they saw.
Not that they can't put up with shit in the outside world. I already mention it on my previous post. Some are real fuck up people who can't wotk in outside world. Some are people who got no way out after 6 years or 10 years. Some refuse to give up such high pay do nothing job to start from beginning. Not that they like SAF. They just no choice but to stick on. Everyone who sign on have a story behind and I can tell you confidently most of them regretted. This is something which is true and I believe you Mr Moose cannot disagree with me.
After looking at Mr Simon and Mr Larry posts. Now Mr Moose, if you want to continue the discussion, please bring up the good points why is it good to sign on. I already mention that it is not good to sign on. Don't keep telling me you friend like this your friend like that which is only small small cases you saw. You should tell us what you heard from the majority. -
Anyway,i still stick to my point of view that you can sign on if you really love the vocation although you hate the regimental life if your love of the vocation is greater than your hate of the regimental life.The common view is that those who sign on regretted it,but not every single one who sign on regretted it,a person signing on could be the few who didn't regret signing on the SAF.Originally posted by Fearless:I read Mr Simon and Mr Larry posts. I felt that I should also deserve my point of view. Now Mr Moose, what you not happy with? Finding my fault also? I stick to my point of view. To sign on, make sure you love the regimental life.
There are people who love regimental life but dislike his vocation, they still seems very happy. The example you quoted about your friend is only some small example. Why not you mention some of the more common view about people who regretted signing on?
Everywhere, there will be shit. The only difference is whether you can get away from it or not. In SAF, you definitely cannot get away from it. You yourself also can't stand regimental life and regretted signing on. Just see, in this thread, those who say sign on is good are those people who didn't sign on or regretted signing on. They themself got no intention to sign on or continue their contract yet keep saying this is good that is good with just a peanut of example they saw.
Not that they can't put up with shit in the outside world. I already mention it on my previous post. Some are real fuck up people who can't wotk in outside world. Some are people who got no way out after 6 years or 10 years. Some refuse to give up such high pay do nothing job to start from beginning. Not that they like SAF. They just no choice but to stick on. Everyone who sign on have a story behind and I can tell you confidently most of them regretted. This is something which is true and I believe you Mr Moose cannot disagree with me.
After looking at Mr Simon and Mr Larry posts. Now Mr Moose, if you want to continue the discussion, please bring up the good points why is it good to sign on. I already mention that it is not good to sign on. Don't keep telling me you friend like this your friend like that which is only small small cases you saw. You should tell us what you heard from the majority.
In the real world,you also cannot escape sh*t that easily.Imagine you are in your 40s and stable in your job,but a new manager comes along and marks you,do you think you can just up and leave if you have a family to take care of?This example is not far fetched and could happen.In the SAF,you can escape the sh*t if you know how and i can safely say,you can escape sh*t in the SAF or the civilian world if you are willing to make some sacrifices.As i have mentioned earlier,the decision to sign on must be taken from every individual's view and i am saying that if you love the vocation and the love is so great that you can tolerate the regimental life,go ahead and sign on.That is from the point of view of someone who wants to sign.But as for me,i cannot stand regimental life and so i will leave,that is my point of view.So what i am saying is from an outsider who have never signed on,not me point of view.I repeat again,it is good if you love the vocation and the love is geat enough for you to tolerate the regimenta lifestyle.The example i quote is not representative of the view of the majority of those who regretted,but it serves to provide an example of people who didn't regret signing on,If i am saying that all who sign on regretted it,i am telling a lie and am biased towards the SAF,so the view i proposed is just a view that takes into account an individual who may or may not sign on.It just tells that if you love the vocation and it's enough to make you tolerate the regimental lifestyle.Go ahead and sign on.If not,don't sign.
My friend may be a small example,but this example goes to show that not everyone regrets signing on.Maybe those who regretted are those who are not high flyers which make up the majority of those in the SAF while i can quote another example of my batchboy who did not regret signing on and wanted to sign a longer contract with the RSN if he could back then.You are wrong to say that everyone who sign on regretted it,there are a minority who didn't.From the specialist POV,the majority view may be sign on is no good,but have you considered the POV of the officers?I certainly don't think those high ranking colonels and officers of the SAF regretted signing on.Officers do make up a sizable portion of the SAF and i bet that a huge portion of officers who signed on in the SAF
didn't regret it.We are talking about the SAF and so it's myopic not to include officers as the question now is "Is it good to sign on in the SAF" and not "Is it good to sign on as a specialist in the SAF".The good points to sign on are,stable pay and career compared to the civilian world where you can get retrenched out of no fault of your own.If you are an officer,you have a chance to reach high office.So now you tell me what is so bad about the SAF?hehe
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour~~~
Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
You have your view point while I have mine. To me, I strongly don't recommend a person to sign on if he hates regimental lifes. Not all who sign on regretted, however most who sign on regretted. This is an obvious fact. I believe you should also saw a lot in your unit who regretted.Originally posted by moose:Anyway,i still stick to my point of view that you can sign on if you really love the vocation although you hate the regimental life if your love of the vocation is greater than your hate of the regimental life.The common view is that those who sign on regretted it,but not every single one who sign on regretted it,a person signing on could be the few who didn't regret signing on the SAF.
In the real world,you also cannot escape sh*t that easily.Imagine you are in your 40s and stable in your job,but a new manager comes along and marks you,do you think you can just up and leave if you have a family to take care of?This example is not far fetched and could happen.In the SAF,you can escape the sh*t if you know how and i can safely say,you can escape sh*t in the SAF or the civilian world if you are willing to make some sacrifices.As i have mentioned earlier,the decision to sign on must be taken from every individual's view and i am saying that if you love the vocation and the love is so great that you can tolerate the regimental life,go ahead and sign on.That is from the point of view of someone who wants to sign.But as for me,i cannot stand regimental life and so i will leave,that is my point of view.So what i am saying is from an outsider who have never signed on,not me point of view.I repeat again,it is good if you love the vocation and the love is geat enough for you to tolerate the regimenta lifestyle.The example i quote is not representative of the view of the majority of those who regretted,but it serves to provide an example of people who didn't regret signing on,If i am saying that all who sign on regretted it,i am telling a lie and am biased towards the SAF,so the view i proposed is just a view that takes into account an individual who may or may not sign on.It just tells that if you love the vocation and it's enough to make you tolerate the regimental lifestyle.Go ahead and sign on.If not,don't sign.
My friend may be a small example,but this example goes to show that not everyone regrets signing on.Maybe those who regretted are those who are not high flyers which make up the majority of those in the SAF while i can quote another example of my batchboy who did not regret signing on and wanted to sign a longer contract with the RSN if he could back then.You are wrong to say that everyone who sign on regretted it,there are a minority who didn't.From the specialist POV,the majority view may be sign on is no good,but have you considered the POV of the officers?I certainly don't think those high ranking colonels and officers of the SAF regretted signing on.Officers do make up a sizable portion of the SAF and i bet that a huge portion of officers who signed on in the SAF
didn't regret it.We are talking about the SAF and so it's myopic not to include officers as the question now is "Is it good to sign on in the SAF" and not "Is it good to sign on as a specialist in the SAF".The good points to sign on are,stable pay and career compared to the civilian world where you can get retrenched out of no fault of your own.If you are an officer,you have a chance to reach high office.So now you tell me what is so bad about the SAF?hehe
Escape from shit? You are wrong. Outside world you can escape easily. Not happy you can always argue back with your boss until you don't need to do, throw resignation letter on his face. I believe you still don't know that many people change job in their 40s. Provided that you are capable and very employable. Jobs are not difficult to find as long as you are capable. In SAF, you retire at 45, how are you going to survive after 45? What about your family? SAF can escape shit? I doubt, example you are given a task for next NDP. How are you going to escape? Report sick everytime? This is just one of the many many examples in SAF. You should sign on only if you love the forces, you think you can stand regimental life and do all sort of shit in SAF. Your point of view is only the minority who feel that way. For me, I point out the feeling of majority. You can't just take a small minority ways of thinking as the general ways most people think. That is what you feel, that doesn't mean the majority who feel that way. You regretted is already one of the many many examples I saw. Finally you bring out the point, those who think they can't stand regimental life should not sign on. That means you already agree to my point on this. Am I right to say that?
Your friend is just one of the small examples you saw. My point is you should look at the point of majority who regretted. I didn't say all who sign on will regret. My point is I saw a lot who regretted. And one of you is Mr Moose. There are many many reasons for people to regret signing on. Far to many to name. This prove that they regretted. Many points to make them regret. I never say everyone who sign on regretted, please don't put words in my mouth if you want a friendly discussion. Now you bring out point of view of an officiers. The number of officiers who regretted is lesser than specialist as what I saw. Still there are officiers who didn't leave after their contract expires. There are many many reasons why they didn't leave. As what I mention earlier, some know that they cannot survive in outside world. Some refuse to give up high pay and start all over again etc etc. They stay on doesn't mean they don't regret. Many still regret, just that they got no choice but to stay on. Some even come back after finding that they can't survive in the outside world. So how pathetic you think that can be? They will be much happier if they don't sign on initally. You can't just take a small minority ways of thinking as the general ways most people think. Now I got a question to ask you, are the number of people regretted more than the number who didn't regret?
Since you ask me, I shall state the disadvantges of signing on SAF.
*Outside would definitely have more prospect compare to SAF.
*Outside would you can always change job and move on, learn new things.
*Outside world you can always move on if you feel that that place is not suitable for you.
*Outside world you can always escape from a lot of shit.
*Outside would, you will not be tied down by so many stupid rules.
*Outside world, you can always change job if you found that you regretted this line.
*Outside world, you are always employable as long as you are capable.
*Outside world you are always a free man to go oversea as long as you like.
And many many to state. -
Most but not all regretted,who knows maybe the next 1 who sign on love the job?It is not fair to recommend someone not to do something just because the majority regretted it.It is better to give advise based on the majority and minority view as then will you present the whole and true picture of signing in the SAF to someone rather than part of the picture from the point of view of stories of a majority of people who regretted it.Originally posted by Fearless:You have your view point while I have mine. To me, I strongly don't recommend a person to sign on if he hates regimental lifes. Not all who sign on regretted, however most who sign on regretted. This is an obvious fact. I believe you should also saw a lot in your unit who regretted.
Even in the outside world,if you are given a big project to do,how can you siam it?Take MC?Anyway,there are ways to siam NDP,but no one ever reject a task for the NDP as this is perfect opportunity to make a name for themselves and to maybe even promote faster.Why will someone reject something which can make his promotion faster if it is a career for him?You point out the feeling of the majority,but not the feeling of everybody who signed on.I am trying to point out point out in a fair manner without biaseness to the SAF of my opinion of joining the SAF by saying what i said.I said that you can join if your love of your vocation is enough to make you overcome your disdain of the regimental life.This is different from saying if you hate regimental life,don't sign on.Am i right to say you read wrongly?
Escape from shit? You are wrong. Outside world you can escape easily. Not happy you can always argue back with your boss until you don't need to do, throw resignation letter on his face. I believe you still don't know that many people change job in their 40s. Provided that you are capable and very employable. Jobs are not difficult to find as long as you are capable.
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You are slightly mistaken in that aspect wher you can quit as and when you like in the outside world,you still need to give a time period of notice before you resign and not just walk out of the office and leave immediately.The time period could be 1 week or 1 month,but you still need to work for that minimun amount of time before you resign and a resignation can be rejected,do not mistake that a resignation is atuomatically granted.How many people in their 40s change job out of their own free will?To an employer,i wouldn't want to employ someone in his 40s even though he may be capable as he will expect the same level of pay while i can pay a fresh graduate lesser pay and still do the same amount of work.Besides,as you get older,you tend to have medical problems and which employer want to employ a 40+ old person which falls sick more often than a young person and there is no use training a 40+ year old person as retirement is coming soon.So in the employer sense,it makes sense to employ a younger fresh grad rather than a capable 40+ old man.This is the view taken from my friends who hold HR positions,ehehe
In SAF, you retire at 45, how are you going to survive after 45? What about your family? SAF can escape shit? I doubt, example you are given a task for next NDP. How are you going to escape? Report sick everytime? This is just one of the many many examples in SAF. You should sign on only if you love the forces, you think you can stand regimental life and do all sort of shit in SAF. Your point of view is only the minority who feel that way. For me, I point out the feeling of majority. You can't just take a small minority ways of thinking as the general ways most people think. That is what you feel, that doesn't mean the majority who feel that way. You regretted is already one of the many many examples I saw. Finally you bring out the point, those who think they can't stand regimental life should not sign on. That means you already agree to my point on this. Am I right to say that?
But you said you strongly don't recommend someone to sign on,so this implies that it is not good to sign on and thus that all who sign on regretted,Is this not true?
Your friend is just one of the small examples you saw. My point is you should look at the point of majority who regretted. I didn't say all who sign on will regret. My point is I saw a lot who regretted. And one of you is Mr Moose. There are many many reasons for people to regret signing on. Far to many to name. This prove that they regretted. Many points to make them regret. I never say everyone who sign on regretted, please don't put words in my mouth if you want a friendly discussion.
Now you bring out point of view of an officiers. The number of officiers who regretted is lesser than specialist as what I saw. Still there are officiers who didn't leave after their contract expires. There are many many reasons why they didn't leave. As what I mention earlier, some know that they cannot survive in outside world. Some refuse to give up high pay and start all over again etc etc. They stay on doesn't mean they don't regret. Many still regret, just that they got no choice but to stay on. Some even come back after finding that they can't survive in the outside world. So how pathetic you think that can be? They will be much happier if they don't sign on initally. You can't just take a small minority ways of thinking as the general ways most people think. Now I got a question to ask you, are the number of people regretted more than the number who didn't regret?
[B][QUOTE]
For your info,after talking to many officers that i have known in my many units.The general feeling of the officers is that they continue their contract not because they are scared of the outside world,but they want to continue serving the SAF.My cousin is a good example,he told me he is not going to leave the RSN as he feels it's his duty to serve the nation.The feeling of why officers don't wanna continue their contract and the feeling of specialist are different and cannot be lumped together.The number of officers who came back from the civilian world are very little and those that came back are those lazy sort who canot survive outside,but they make up only a very small number of a smaller number of officers who left the service.I never take the minority point of view as the general point of you,you also cannot take the majority point of view as the general point of view.The only general point of view is the minority and the majority point of view combined which is what i am trying to bring out all along.The majority of people who signed on regretted,but this is not the general point of view of those woh sign on as this only has the majority point of view,but never include the minority
It depends on a lot of factors,in the outside world,it's a cruel world,you either make it or you don't.So if you don't,it's not like the SAF where they still take care of you,in the outside world,you can be prepared to be living of social welfare if you really cannot make it due to other reason example debilitating illness
Since you ask me, I shall state the disadvantges of signing on SAF.
*Outside would definitely have more prospect compare to SAF.That is provided you change to a new line of work or are in a line of work which allows you to learn new things,but how many line of work really allows that?Not many,most line of work are just doing the same old thing.You cannot anyhow change job if you are under contract
*Outside would you can always change job and move on, learn new things.
Move on as in what?Change a new job tomolo if you hate the boss?It's not so easy,you have to give advance notice and the higher you are in your post,you have to give even more advance notice of resignation unless you get sacked
*Outside world you can always move on if you feel that that place is not suitable for you.Nowhere in work can you excape sh*t,you can only escape different kind of sh*t,sh*t is present in every job there is
*Outside world you can always escape from a lot of shit.
Stupid rules?Example?
*Outside would, you will not be tied down by so many stupid rules.Move on as in what?Change a new job tomolo if you hate the boss?It's not so easy,you have to give advance notice and the higher you are in your post,you have to give even more advance notice of resignation unless you get sacked.Even if you quit your job,what makes you think it is so easy to enter another line if you don't have the relevant qualifications?
*Outside world, you can always change job if you found that you regretted this line.
Wrong,depends on your age,if you are 40 and 50+,do you think you can still get a reasonable paying job if you get retrenched suddenly.Why do you think everybody hates the thought of being retrenced when they are nearing retirement?Do you think jobs are easy to come by when the economy is down?Unless you mean change jobs from example manager to a Macdonald's counter staff or 7-11 staff,then i have no comments on that.
*Outside world, you are always employable as long as you are capable.[quote]That is provide you are not working,which company will employ a person to work locally if he goes overseas on his own for 2 or 3 months?
*Outside world you are always a free man to go oversea as long as you like.
And many many to state.
hehee
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour~~~
Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
Hear hear
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Everyday is a special day, do something special b4 u end this day!!! -
If you think that it is not fair to comment due to majority regretted, than how you think we should comment? Comment using the minority? Havn't I present the story of the majority? The true is that the majority regretted. Just that you Mr Moose refuse to accept this fact.Originally posted by moose:Most but not all regretted,who knows maybe the next 1 who sign on love the job?It is not fair to recommend someone not to do something just because the majority regretted it.It is better to give advise based on the majority and minority view as then will you present the whole and true picture of signing in the SAF to someone rather than part of the picture from the point of view of stories of a majority of people who regretted it.You are slightly mistaken in that aspect wher you can quit as and when you like in the outside world,you still need to give a time period of notice before you resign and not just walk out of the office and leave immediately.The time period could be 1 week or 1 month,but you still need to work for that minimun amount of time before you resign and a resignation can be rejected,do not mistake that a resignation is atuomatically granted.How many people in their 40s change job out of their own free will?To an employer,i wouldn't want to employ someone in his 40s even though he may be capable as he will expect the same level of pay while i can pay a fresh graduate lesser pay and still do the same amount of work.Besides,as you get older,you tend to have medical problems and which employer want to employ a 40+ old person which falls sick more often than a young person and there is no use training a 40+ year old person as retirement is coming soon.So in the employer sense,it makes sense to employ a younger fresh grad rather than a capable 40+ old man.This is the view taken from my friends who hold HR positions,ehehe
This point you are wrong Mr Moose. You can quit as you like. As long as you like it. You can always compensate 1 week or 1 month salary if you wants to. Resignation can be rejected? This is something new to me. Where the hell did this new system come out from? Is it implmented by you Mr Moose? This system is only applicable in SAF. A person in his 40s is still employable. A lot of 40 years old people still change job. Not necessary you wouldn't employ 40 years old people means everybody don't employ 40 years old people. Further more I think you got mixed up between SAF and outside world. Only SAF people retire at 45. Outside world people retire at 65. From 40 to 65 years old there are still a long 25 years. The employer wouldn't think of retirement for a newly employed 40 years old worker. Instead 40 years old is the peak of a person with his career. I really doubt your friend's theory. I suggest you double check with him first.Even in the outside world,if you are given a big project to do,how can you siam it?Take MC?Anyway,there are ways to siam NDP,but no one ever reject a task for the NDP as this is perfect opportunity to make a name for themselves and to maybe even promote faster.Why will someone reject something which can make his promotion faster if it is a career for him?You point out the feeling of the majority,but not the feeling of everybody who signed on.I am trying to point out point out in a fair manner without biaseness to the SAF of my opinion of joining the SAF by saying what i said.I said that you can join if your love of your vocation is enough to make you overcome your disdain of the regimental life.This is different from saying if you hate regimental life,don't sign on.Am i right to say you read wrongly?
Outside world, you can choose to take up the big project or not. Not everything you must do means you must do. Only SAF got such rule. You only look at the view point of NDP of an officier or planner view. How about the view point of the Guard of Honour? Do you think they wanted to? Do you think anybody would promote faster if he take part in NDP Guard of Honour? I point out the view of the majority, and I believe it is indeed how most people feel. Just that you can't seems to accept the fact that this is the way how most people think. You said you can join if you love the vocation. I said you should not join if you hate regimental life. If you hate regimental life, no matter how good your vocation is, you still wouldn't enjoy. I doubt you will get my point, you already stuck into the mud.But you said you strongly don't recommend someone to sign on,so this implies that it is not good to sign on and thus that all who sign on regretted,Is this not true?
I strongly recommend people shouldn't sign on. It is not good to sign on. If it is so good to sign on, than why so many people refuse to sign on? The true is that many who sign on regretted. Is that the true? Or you still refuse to fact the facts?For your info,after talking to many officers that i have known in my many units.The general feeling of the officers is that they continue their contract not because they are scared of the outside world,but they want to continue serving the SAF.My cousin is a good example,he told me he is not going to leave the RSN as he feels it's his duty to serve the nation.The feeling of why officers don't wanna continue their contract and the feeling of specialist are different and cannot be lumped together.The number of officers who came back from the civilian world are very little and those that came back are those lazy sort who canot survive outside,but they make up only a very small number of a smaller number of officers who left the service.I never take the minority point of view as the general point of you,you also cannot take the majority point of view as the general point of view.The only general point of view is the minority and the majority point of view combined which is what i am trying to bring out all along.The majority of people who signed on regretted,but this is not the general point of view of those woh sign on as this only has the majority point of view,but never include the minority
If you don't know, than let me tell you now. Many indeed afraid they can't survive in the outside world. They already been given much respect in SAF. Ask them to go outside and suffer all the scolding from superior is something which they don't want. It is the true. Just that they don't dare to tell you. Your cousin is one of the example. My uncle is another who totally regretted signing on as an officier. He said the SAF is a fuck up organisation. Many of his ex collegues have the intention to resign from SAF but they can't. The reason is just because they got no way out. What you trying to bring out is SAF is still good to sign on. However you only mention the view point of the minority who feels that way, you totally ignore the feeling of the majority. You feel that I never include the minority, since when you ever include the majority?It depends on a lot of factors,in the outside world,it's a cruel world,you either make it or you don't.So if you don't,it's not like the SAF where they still take care of you,in the outside world,you can be prepared to be living of social welfare if you really cannot make it due to other reason example debilitating illness
If you don't make it. This show that you are fuck up. The best place for fuck up people is SAF. This is already a proven fact. SAF keeps and take care of fuck up people. If you think you are fuck up, go ahead and sign on.That is provided you change to a new line of work or are in a line of work which allows you to learn new things,but how many line of work really allows that?Not many,most line of work are just doing the same old thing.You cannot anyhow change job if you are under contract
Not necessary you must change a new line of work in order to learn new things. Change company changing working environment can also learn a lot of new things. Now back to square one, who ask you to look for a job which require contract? SAF you think you still can learn new things which is useful in outside world?Move on as in what?Change a new job tomolo if you hate the boss?It's not so easy,you have to give advance notice and the higher you are in your post,you have to give even more advance notice of resignation unless you get sacked
You can always look for better job better pay as you move on. Giving advance notice? How long do you think the notice can be? 5 years? 10 years? Be logical. Move on means look for job which have better prospect. SAF can provide that?Nowhere in work can you excape sh*t,you can only escape different kind of sh*t,sh*t is present in every job there is
You can. I already explain how to escape many time. Just that you can't accept my point yet unable to debate my point that's why you keep mention outside world cannot escape from shit. Refer to my post and read carefully again.Stupid rules?Example?
Wear uniform to book in is one of the stupid rule. Cannot bring MD player to camp in another. Cannot keep long hair. Cannot dye hair. Isn't that already stupid enough? Need me to point out anymore?Move on as in what?Change a new job tomolo if you hate the boss?It's not so easy,you have to give advance notice and the higher you are in your post,you have to give even more advance notice of resignation unless you get sacked.Even if you quit your job,what makes you think it is so easy to enter another line if you don't have the relevant qualifications?
Move on doesn't only mean change line. You can always look for better job better pay as you move on. Giving advance notice? How long do you think the notice can be? 5 years? 10 years? Be logical. Move on means look for job which have better prospect. So what are you going to do if your contract in SAF end and you don't have relevant qualification?Wrong,depends on your age,if you are 40 and 50+,do you think you can still get a reasonable paying job if you get retrenched suddenly.Why do you think everybody hates the thought of being retrenced when they are nearing retirement?Do you think jobs are easy to come by when the economy is down?Unless you mean change jobs from example manager to a Macdonald's counter staff or 7-11 staff,then i have no comments on that.
Wrong? What right do you have to say that is wrong? As long as you are capable, you will always be employable. Since you say that, how about you tell me what a person in SAF should do if he retire at 45 years old since you stated that jobs are so difficult to find?That is provide you are not working,which company will employ a person to work locally if he goes overseas on his own for 2 or 3 months?
Can, as long as there are people to cover your duty. I believe your company still allows you to take long leave to go oversea. Can SAF allows that?
If you want to compare SAF and outside world, compare logically. Don't bring out things that is not possible in outside world and also not possible in SAF. Please take note of this point. and compare in a fair manner. -
Yes,resignation can be rejected,maybe you have not heard of it,but it does not mean that it does not exist.An example is you cannot see the wind,but you cannot say the wind doesn't exist.It will be stupid of you to make such a judgement before finding out more information,mr Fearless.A lot of people still change job huh?Can you ask your father that if he is willing to change job at his age or if he was 40+?I doubt he will.A 40 year old man has 25 years to retirement.A fresh graduate can have about 40 years more to retirement,The only logical thing is for the employer to employ someone who can stay longer with the company.Also as a person gets older,he is less able to learn new skills or maybe slower than a young person.This makes training a 40 year old man harder than an older person.You are wrong in that a man at 40 is at the peak of his career.A man at 30 to 40 is at the peak after that he starts to stagnates.Next time,you can ask any HR person you know whether will they employ a 40 year old man or a fresh graduate for a job,If you think that it is not fair to comment due to majority regretted, than how you think we should comment? Comment using the minority? Havn't I present the story of the majority? The true is that the majority regretted. Just that you Mr Moose refuse to accept this fact.[/quote]
Wrong again,if you bother to read my previous posting,i said we should comment using the view of the majority and minority.not only using minority or majority only to comment,I think you are the 1 who didn't really read my post that we should comment using the minority and the majority point of view instead of only using the majority point of view as you insisted,I think you,Mr Fearless is 1 who still wants to give your point of view as the majority,not as the majority and minority as i have gaveheehe
This point you are wrong Mr Moose. You can quit as you like. As long as you like it. You can always compensate 1 week or 1 month salary if you wants to. Resignation can be rejected? This is something new to me. Where the hell did this new system come out from? Is it implmented by you Mr Moose? This system is only applicable in SAF. A person in his 40s is still employable. A lot of 40 years old people still change job. Not necessary you wouldn't employ 40 years old people means everybody don't employ 40 years old people. Further more I think you got mixed up between SAF and outside world. Only SAF people retire at 45. Outside world people retire at 65. From 40 to 65 years old there are still a long 25 years. The employer wouldn't think of retirement for a newly employed 40 years old worker. Instead 40 years old is the peak of a person with his career. I really doubt your friend's theory. I suggest you double check with him first.
You are the one truly stuck in the mud or maybe we both are stuck in our own muds.I am stuck in my mud that if you love the vocation,join if the love is able to overcome the disdain of regimental life while you are stuck in your mud that if you hate regimental life,no matter how much you love the vocation,don't join.I can accept the fact tht most people feel this way,but not the fact that all people feel this way.Anyway,in the working world,whether you accept a project is not up to you,it's up to your boss to decide for you.Guard of Honour is a sh*t job,but every job has it's sh*t that you can't escape from.If you wanna siam big projects in the working world,you can if you resign.But if you do this and continuosly resign from various jobs to escapes various big projects.Then you won't be able to find much work relevant to what you do liaoz,ehehe
Outside world, you can choose to take up the big project or not. Not everything you must do means you must do. Only SAF got such rule. You only look at the view point of NDP of an officier or planner view. How about the view point of the Guard of Honour? Do you think they wanted to? Do you think anybody would promote faster if he take part in NDP Guard of Honour? I point out the view of the majority, and I believe it is indeed how most people feel. Just that you can't seems to accept the fact that this is the way how most people think. You said you can join if you love the vocation. I said you should not join if you hate regimental life. If you hate regimental life, no matter how good your vocation is, you still wouldn't enjoy. I doubt you will get my point, you already stuck into the mud.People refuse to sign on is due to the long contract,not it is good or not andalso some don't like the vocation or regimental life.I am sure if the contract was shorten to 3 years and not 6 years.There will be a better response.6 years is a long time.I will only recommend people to sign if they love the vocation and the love is enough to make them overcome anything they hate about SAF,but not if they hate everything about SAF.You can see how i am trying to use the point of view of the majority and minority to give advise,not just blindly give advise just because of what the majority did which is not the true picture as you did,Mr Fearless.The fact is that although many who sign on regretted,but not allregretted,the person who sign on could be the 1 not regretting it and having such a view that just because the majority sign on and regret,those who sign on also will regret.You have failed time and time again to face the real facts concerning the view of the minority and majority as it does exist that people who sign on love it although it is the minority,but the minority still exist and the majority does not represent everyone who sign on regretted it,so you are the 1 refusing to face the full facts regarding majority and minority,but only facing the facts regarding majority,mr Fearless,ehehe
I strongly recommend people shouldn't sign on. It is not good to sign on. If it is so good to sign on, than why so many people refuse to sign on? The true is that many who sign on regretted. Is that the true? Or you still refuse to fact the facts?
If you don't know, than let me tell you now. Many indeed afraid they can't survive in the outside world. They already been given much respect in SAF. Ask them to go outside and suffer all the scolding from superior is something which they don't want. It is the true. Just that they don't dare to tell you. Your cousin is one of the example. My uncle is another who totally regretted signing on as an officier. He said the SAF is a fuck up organisation. Many of his ex collegues have the intention to resign from SAF but they can't. The reason is just because they got no way out. What you trying to bring out is SAF is still good to sign on. However you only mention the view point of the minority who feels that way, you totally ignore the feeling of the majority. You feel that I never include the minority, since when you ever include the majority?------------------
[quote]
I have mentioned the majority when i said if you love the vocation and hate the regimental life,but the love is great enough to overcome the regimental life,then go ahead and sign on.This means if you love the vocation a lot,but hate regimental life,but can still take it.Sign on.If not,don't sign on if you cannot take the regimental life and regret.Isn't this part of the majority view?You are wrong that i am trying to say the SAF is good to sign on.I have said countless times that it is good [b]if and only if you love the vocation so much that you can tolerate the regimental life.You seem to ignore this last sentence so i wonder are you the one refusing to see my sentence as a whole and not as just 1 half.The SAF may be fucked up because it is a multi tier organisation where there are many layers and red tape.Any big company has red tape,i bet that even MNCs or those government agencies have lotsa red tape which is typical of a big organisation,eheh[/b]
If you don't make it. This show that you are fuck up. The best place for fuck up people is SAF. This is already a proven fact. SAF keeps and take care of fuck up people. If you think you are fuck up, go ahead and sign on.
Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour~~~
Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
Wrong,just because you cannot make it and you brand people as f*ck up is not right.It is shallow to do that as a lot of factors play a part why some people cannot make it.If a person suddenly gets cancer for no reason and cannot work and make it.Is he f*cked up because he cannot make it due to his cancer?If so,a lot of cancer patients are f*cked up liaoz.SAF is a good place for f*cked up people as compared to the outside world as it still pay you a regular salary,but in the long term,you can get henta kaki and your colleagues and subordinates don't respect you because you are f*cked up,Issit a nice feeling to work in such an environment?If those who sign on are f*cked up.Then i guess the CDF,Chief of Navy and the other 2 forces are f*cked up to not make it in the outside world even though they are scholars as they sign on.So if even top scholars of Singapore cannot make it outside in the working world,then diploma holders and degree holders are even worse.So if CDF and the top officers are f*cked up.Then we are even more f*cked up as if they cannot survive in the working world because they sign on as signing on is a sign of being f*cked up.Then we should sign on also as we cannot survive in the working world if thes top scholars of Singapore cannot survive and they have to sign on.So you need me to get you an application form frmo CMPB tomolo?hehee
You can look for better job,but that does not mean that you are gurantee to find it,if not a lot of people in Singapore will be happy as they will all find the better job they are looking for.A notice to resign is still a notice.This is a fact whether the notice is 1 month or 2 weeks or 5 years.You agree with me?You may find the job with better prospect,but is there a 100% gurantee you can get the job?Not everything in
Not necessary you must change a new line of work in order to learn new things. Change company changing working environment can also learn a lot of new things. Now back to square one, who ask you to look for a job which require contract? SAF you think you still can learn new things which is useful in outside world?
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Working envirnment can change,but how much does working environment relate your line of work?working environment only relates to your own personal self as it's a change from the norm,but the work still remains the same.Some jobs are on a contract basis,so i presume you will reject all contract based work as you have ask who ask you to look for a contract work as it implies you have no intention for looking for contract work.This is good for you as it narrows down your field to exclude contract work.The work of the SAF is to protect Singapore using it's military powess.There is only 1 military organisation for every country and of cos what you learn in the SAF cannot be applied to the outside world.Can you name me 3 countries where there are 2 different military organisations?I bet you can name zero as no country has 2 military organisation workinng together.So your question does not hold water as it's uselessYou can always look for better job better pay as you move on. Giving advance notice? How long do you think the notice can be? 5 years? 10 years? Be logical. Move on means look for job which have better prospect. SAF can provide that?
Singapore is a matter of you want it,it is there,am i right in saying that?Mr Fearless?
Wrong,there are many different types of sh*t and you only explain how to escape 1 type only.If you hate meetings and there is a meeting every morning?How you are going to escape this sh*t?By saying you are in toilet everytime the meeting is held?Your boss sure will be suspicious of you if you do that everytime.Not all sh*t can be avoided,only some can.That is what i am trying to put across,you agreee?Mr Fearless?hehe
You can. I already explain how to escape many time. Just that you can't accept my point yet unable to debate my point that's why you keep mention outside world cannot escape from shit. Refer to my post and read carefully again.Cannot keep long hair?That is not a stupid rule.I ma sure in the management sector in the working world,there are sure to be some rules regarding hair length.I have not met any long hair male managers.Have you?As for dying hair,i have not met any managers with dyed hair except for black,have you?WEar uniform to book in?That is up to individual camp liaoz.When i was in SNT,i booked in wearing civilian and i was ok.It is wrong to say just because 1 camp say must book in with uniform,then you say it's a stupid SAF rule.The rule did not come from the SAF,but from the camp.This statement show that you are the type of person who if find 1 bad apple in a basket,will throw the whole basket of apples without checking which are the rotten apples and which are the good apples.Right?Cannot bring MD player to camp huh?That does not sound like such a stupid rule because SAF is a military organisation and has it's share of secrets.Thus the rule was to prevent a leakage of military secrets.In the working world,there are corporate secrets and such which i am sure not every company is willing to let it's competitors know.So it's logical,care to name me anymore illogical rules?heehe
Wear uniform to book in is one of the stupid rule. Cannot bring MD player to camp in another. Cannot keep long hair. Cannot dye hair. Isn't that already stupid enough? Need me to point out anymore?
My judgements on what is wrong is based on logical thinking.You say if you are capable,you will be employable.How about if a old man quite his job at 60 and finds another job,he got 5 more years to go and is capable.What is the percentage of companies that will employ a 60 year old man to do the same job he did before and still get same pay if he is still capable.Now the retirement age for WOs are 55 and not 45.So a person can still work until 55 in the SAF.If he is not a WO,he can safely retire with a huge graduity package and CPF compared to the outside world where if you retire at 45,you get only CPF.I am sure everyone wants to retire early if they can afford it and have the money instead of working and getting up early for work when they are old.I am no exception.so once someone from the SAF retires at 45 which is in the minority,the graduity and CPF can be a huge amount,enough for retirement,ehehe
Wrong? What right do you have to say that is wrong? As long as you are capable, you will always be employable. Since you say that, how about you tell me what a person in SAF should do if he retire at 45 years old since you stated that jobs are so difficult to find?[quote]How long can they person cover your duty?2 months?6 months or 1 year?you said you can go overseas as long as you like,so if you go overseas for 6 months.Do you think your company will still pay you to go enjoy yourself overseas for six months and get someone who will complain at having extra workload for 6 months or just sack you?Anyway,in the working world,it's is not so easy to take leave.Leave is subject to approval and more often,if you are too busy,then don't go on leave.It's as simple as that.anyway,you know any company who will let their employee go overseas as long as they want?I am comparing logically,but it's your statement that lead me to presume otherwise,especially that statement that you can go overseas as long as you wish.If you think that i compare illogical things,then please name me some logicals thigns to compare and by the way,please tell me as i wish to be in that company if a company allows an employee to go overseas as he wish,ehehe
Can, as long as there are people to cover your duty. I believe your company still allows you to take long leave to go oversea. Can SAF allows that?
If you want to compare SAF and outside world, compare logically. Don't bring out things that is not possible in outside world and also not possible in SAF. Please take note of this point. and compare in a fair manner.
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour~~~
Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
Wrong,just because you cannot make it and you brand people as f*ck up is not right.It is shallow to do that as a lot of factors play a part why some people cannot make it.If a person suddenly gets cancer for no reason and cannot work and make it.Is he f*cked up because he cannot make it due to his cancer?If so,a lot of cancer patients are f*cked up liaoz.SAF is a good place for f*cked up people as compared to the outside world as it still pay you a regular salary,but in the long term,you can get henta kaki and your colleagues and subordinates don't respect you because you are f*cked up,Issit a nice feeling to work in such an environment?If those who sign on are f*cked up.Then i guess the CDF,Chief of Navy and the other 2 forces are f*cked up to not make it in the outside world even though they are scholars as they sign on.So if even top scholars of Singapore cannot make it outside in the working world,then diploma holders and degree holders are even worse.So if CDF and the top officers are f*cked up.Then we are even more f*cked up as if they cannot survive in the working world because they sign on as signing on is a sign of being f*cked up.Then we should sign on also as we cannot survive in the working world if thes top scholars of Singapore cannot survive and they have to sign on.So you need me to get you an application form frmo CMPB tomolo?hehee
You can look for better job,but that does not mean that you are gurantee to find it,if not a lot of people in Singapore will be happy as they will all find the better job they are looking for.A notice to resign is still a notice.This is a fact whether the notice is 1 month or 2 weeks or 5 years.You agree with me?You may find the job with better prospect,but is there a 100% gurantee you can get the job?Not everything in
Not necessary you must change a new line of work in order to learn new things. Change company changing working environment can also learn a lot of new things. Now back to square one, who ask you to look for a job which require contract? SAF you think you still can learn new things which is useful in outside world?
[/quote]
Working envirnment can change,but how much does working environment relate your line of work?working environment only relates to your own personal self as it's a change from the norm,but the work still remains the same.Some jobs are on a contract basis,so i presume you will reject all contract based work as you have ask who ask you to look for a contract work as it implies you have no intention for looking for contract work.This is good for you as it narrows down your field to exclude contract work.The work of the SAF is to protect Singapore using it's military powess.There is only 1 military organisation for every country and of cos what you learn in the SAF cannot be applied to the outside world.Can you name me 3 countries where there are 2 different military organisations?I bet you can name zero as no country has 2 military organisation workinng together.So your question does not hold water as it's uselessYou can always look for better job better pay as you move on. Giving advance notice? How long do you think the notice can be? 5 years? 10 years? Be logical. Move on means look for job which have better prospect. SAF can provide that?
Singapore is a matter of you want it,it is there,am i right in saying that?Mr Fearless?
Wrong,there are many different types of sh*t and you only explain how to escape 1 type only.If you hate meetings and there is a meeting every morning?How you are going to escape this sh*t?By saying you are in toilet everytime the meeting is held?Your boss sure will be suspicious of you if you do that everytime.Not all sh*t can be avoided,only some can.That is what i am trying to put across,you agreee?Mr Fearless?hehe
You can. I already explain how to escape many time. Just that you can't accept my point yet unable to debate my point that's why you keep mention outside world cannot escape from shit. Refer to my post and read carefully again.Cannot keep long hair?That is not a stupid rule.I ma sure in the management sector in the working world,there are sure to be some rules regarding hair length.I have not met any long hair male managers.Have you?As for dying hair,i have not met any managers with dyed hair except for black,have you?WEar uniform to book in?That is up to individual camp liaoz.When i was in SNT,i booked in wearing civilian and i was ok.It is wrong to say just because 1 camp say must book in with uniform,then you say it's a stupid SAF rule.The rule did not come from the SAF,but from the camp.This statement show that you are the type of person who if find 1 bad apple in a basket,will throw the whole basket of apples without checking which are the rotten apples and which are the good apples.Right?Cannot bring MD player to camp huh?That does not sound like such a stupid rule because SAF is a military organisation and has it's share of secrets.Thus the rule was to prevent a leakage of military secrets.In the working world,there are corporate secrets and such which i am sure not every company is willing to let it's competitors know.So it's logical,care to name me anymore illogical rules?heehe
Wear uniform to book in is one of the stupid rule. Cannot bring MD player to camp in another. Cannot keep long hair. Cannot dye hair. Isn't that already stupid enough? Need me to point out anymore?
My judgements on what is wrong is based on logical thinking.You say if you are capable,you will be employable.How about if a old man quite his job at 60 and finds another job,he got 5 more years to go and is capable.What is the percentage of companies that will employ a 60 year old man to do the same job he did before and still get same pay if he is still capable.Now the retirement age for WOs are 55 and not 45.So a person can still work until 55 in the SAF.If he is not a WO,he can safely retire with a huge graduity package and CPF compared to the outside world where if you retire at 45,you get only CPF.I am sure everyone wants to retire early if they can afford it and have the money instead of working and getting up early for work when they are old.I am no exception.so once someone from the SAF retires at 45 which is in the minority,the graduity and CPF can be a huge amount,enough for retirement,ehehe
Wrong? What right do you have to say that is wrong? As long as you are capable, you will always be employable. Since you say that, how about you tell me what a person in SAF should do if he retire at 45 years old since you stated that jobs are so difficult to find?[quote]How long can they person cover your duty?2 months?6 months or 1 year?you said you can go overseas as long as you like,so if you go overseas for 6 months.Do you think your company will still pay you to go enjoy yourself overseas for six months and get someone who will complain at having extra workload for 6 months or just sack you?Anyway,in the working world,it's is not so easy to take leave.Leave is subject to approval and more often,if you are too busy,then don't go on leave.It's as simple as that.anyway,you know any company who will let their employee go overseas as long as they want?I am comparing logically,but it's your statement that lead me to presume otherwise,especially that statement that you can go overseas as long as you wish.If you think that i compare illogical things,then please name me some logicals thigns to compare and by the way,please tell me as i wish to be in that company if a company allows an employee to go overseas as he wish,ehehe
Can, as long as there are people to cover your duty. I believe your company still allows you to take long leave to go oversea. Can SAF allows that?
If you want to compare SAF and outside world, compare logically. Don't bring out things that is not possible in outside world and also not possible in SAF. Please take note of this point. and compare in a fair manner.
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Theory Of Relativity
Eating a lot of good food will make 1 hour seem like 5 minutes while eating lotsa horrigible cooked veggies will make 5 minutes seem like 1 hour~~~
Waiting for Diablo 2 Add-on -
You are wrong this time Mr Moose. Totally wrong. Since when you point out the view of the majority? You only keep telling out the view point of some minority and refuse to take in the view of the majority. You keep saying should look things in view point of both the majority and minority, but you failed to do so. I suggest you reflect on this point.Originally posted by moose:Wrong again,if you bother to read my previous posting,i said we should comment using the view of the majority and minority.not only using minority or majority only to comment,I think you are the 1 who didn't really read my post that we should comment using the minority and the majority point of view instead of only using the majority point of view as you insisted,I think you,Mr Fearless is 1 who still wants to give your point of view as the majority,not as the majority and minority as i have gaveheeheYes,resignation can be rejected,maybe you have not heard of it,but it does not mean that it does not exist.An example is you cannot see the wind,but you cannot say the wind doesn't exist.It will be stupid of you to make such a judgement before finding out more information,mr Fearless.A lot of people still change job huh?Can you ask your father that if he is willing to change job at his age or if he was 40+?I doubt he will.A 40 year old man has 25 years to retirement.A fresh graduate can have about 40 years more to retirement,The only logical thing is for the employer to employ someone who can stay longer with the company.Also as a person gets older,he is less able to learn new skills or maybe slower than a young person.This makes training a 40 year old man harder than an older person.You are wrong in that a man at 40 is at the peak of his career.A man at 30 to 40 is at the peak after that he starts to stagnates.Next time,you can ask any HR person you know whether will they employ a 40 year old man or a fresh graduate for a job,
I never heard of it. Name me example? You never see people change job at 40 years old doesn't mean people don't change job at 40 years old. There are still alot of people who change job at 40 years old. Just that you don't know only. If 40 years old cannot find job, than how about retire from SAF at 45 years old? Isn't it more difficult to find job? Not every post employs fresh graduate. Many still employ experience people to hold high position. If you don't know, I suggest you should go HR and find out more before boasting here.You are the one truly stuck in the mud or maybe we both are stuck in our own muds.I am stuck in my mud that if you love the vocation,join if the love is able to overcome the disdain of regimental life while you are stuck in your mud that if you hate regimental life,no matter how much you love the vocation,don't join.I can accept the fact tht most people feel this way,but not the fact that all people feel this way.Anyway,in the working world,whether you accept a project is not up to you,it's up to your boss to decide for you.Guard of Honour is a sh*t job,but every job has it's sh*t that you can't escape from.If you wanna siam big projects in the working world,you can if you resign.But if you do this and continuosly resign from various jobs to escapes various big projects.Then you won't be able to find much work relevant to what you do liaoz,ehehe
Maybe both of us are stuck in the mud of our own. You stuck in your own while I stuck in my own. You don't change my view point while I don't change yours. That will be the best. Most people feels this way, that's why I strongly suggest shouldn't sign on. It is up to your boss to decide for you, you also can choose to accept it or not. You still havn't tell me what is so good about being the Guard of Honour, you initally say until so good can promote faster etc etc, how come now you didn't say much? You are quoting extreme example again, if a person escape all big project, this show that he is fuck up.People refuse to sign on is due to the long contract,not it is good or not andalso some don't like the vocation or regimental life.I am sure if the contract was shorten to 3 years and not 6 years.There will be a better response.6 years is a long time.I will only recommend people to sign if they love the vocation and the love is enough to make them overcome anything they hate about SAF,but not if they hate everything about SAF.You can see how i am trying to use the point of view of the majority and minority to give advise,not just blindly give advise just because of what the majority did which is not the true picture as you did,Mr Fearless.The fact is that although many who sign on regretted,but not allregretted,the person who sign on could be the 1 not regretting it and having such a view that just because the majority sign on and regret,those who sign on also will regret.You have failed time and time again to face the real facts concerning the view of the minority and majority as it does exist that people who sign on love it although it is the minority,but the minority still exist and the majority does not represent everyone who sign on regretted it,so you are the 1 refusing to face the full facts regarding majority and minority,but only facing the facts regarding majority,mr Fearless,ehehe
Contract shorten to 3 years? You must be dreaming Mr Moose, serve NS is already 2.5 years and shorten to 3 years is no different from serving NS. You also mention if love is able to overcome hate. The true is there is so much hate. Too much until most people refuse to sign on. The majority have already proven that it is not worth to sign on. Reason mainly because most of them regretted. And Mr Moose is one of them. Havn't the majority already told you sign on is not worth?
And so far you only mention 1 reason why is it not good to sign on. And your reason for contract too long is total rubbish. Any more reason?I have mentioned the majority when i said if you love the vocation and hate the regimental life,but the love is great enough to overcome the regimental life,then go ahead and sign on.This means if you love the vocation a lot,but hate regimental life,but can still take it.Sign on.If not,don't sign on if you cannot take the regimental life and regret.Isn't this part of the majority view?You are wrong that i am trying to say the SAF is good to sign on.I have said countless times that it is good if and only if you love the vocation so much that you can tolerate the regimental life.You seem to ignore this last sentence so i wonder are you the one refusing to see my sentence as a whole and not as just 1 half.The SAF may be fucked up because it is a multi tier organisation where there are many layers and red tape.Any big company has red tape,i bet that even MNCs or those government agencies have lotsa red tape which is typical of a big organisation,eheh
You say good to sign on if your love is great to overcome hate. My view point is it is not worth to sign on if can't stand regimental life. If there is nothing wrong with my statement, what fault are you trying to find right from the start? Every organisation has its fuck up point. The only difference is whether you can escape from it or not. SAF definitely cannot. Other organisation I believe Mr Moose will think or cook up some extreme examples to prove my point wrong again.Wrong,just because you cannot make it and you brand people as f*ck up is not right.It is shallow to do that as a lot of factors play a part why some people cannot make it.If a person suddenly gets cancer for no reason and cannot work and make it.Is he f*cked up because he cannot make it due to his cancer?If so,a lot of cancer patients are f*cked up liaoz.SAF is a good place for f*cked up people as compared to the outside world as it still pay you a regular salary,but in the long term,you can get henta kaki and your colleagues and subordinates don't respect you because you are f*cked up,Issit a nice feeling to work in such an environment?If those who sign on are f*cked up.Then i guess the CDF,Chief of Navy and the other 2 forces are f*cked up to not make it in the outside world even though they are scholars as they sign on.So if even top scholars of Singapore cannot make it outside in the working world,then diploma holders and degree holders are even worse.So if CDF and the top officers are f*cked up.Then we are even more f*cked up as if they cannot survive in the working world because they sign on as signing on is a sign of being f*cked up.Then we should sign on also as we cannot survive in the working world if thes top scholars of Singapore cannot survive and they have to sign on.So you need me to get you an application form frmo CMPB tomolo?hehee
You cannot make it. It is you that is fuck up. Or from your point of view that should be consider unlucky. So are you telling me SAF no matter how you will still make it to high position? SAF keeps a lot of fuck up people. That doesn't mean everybody in SAF is fuck up. If you want to discuss, discuss properly. Don't put words into my mouth. Now you point out the disadvangates in SAF. That is what I say if you are in outside world, you can always move on. SAF don't provide you the opportunity to move on if you are condamn. Looks like you already agree to this point. I really think there is a need for you to continue your contract, save the application form for yourself.Working envirnment can change,but how much does working environment relate your line of work?working environment only relates to your own personal self as it's a change from the norm,but the work still remains the same.Some jobs are on a contract basis,so i presume you will reject all contract based work as you have ask who ask you to look for a contract work as it implies you have no intention for looking for contract work.This is good for you as it narrows down your field to exclude contract work.The work of the SAF is to protect Singapore using it's military powess.There is only 1 military organisation for every country and of cos what you learn in the SAF cannot be applied to the outside world.Can you name me 3 countries where there are 2 different military organisations?I bet you can name zero as no country has 2 military organisation workinng together.So your question does not hold water as it's useless
Working environment relate a lot in your work. Work still remain the same? I believe you havn't seen the outside world yet. Now you agree that SAF cannot allow what you learn to be used in outside world. So my question here again, how you going to survive after your contract expires? So why do you still say sign on is good if there is no way you can use your expertise in the outside world?You can look for better job,but that does not mean that you are gurantee to find it,if not a lot of people in Singapore will be happy as they will all find the better job they are looking for.A notice to resign is still a notice.This is a fact whether the notice is 1 month or 2 weeks or 5 years.You agree with me?You may find the job with better prospect,but is there a 100% gurantee you can get the job?Not everything in
You havn't answer my question Mr Moose. Outside world, you may not gurantee to find a job, does it mean in SAF you gurantee to get a job if you resign? Want to compare, compare fairly.
Singapore is a matter of you want it,it is there,am i right in saying that?Mr Fearless?Wrong,there are many different types of sh*t and you only explain how to escape 1 type only.If you hate meetings and there is a meeting every morning?How you are going to escape this sh*t?By saying you are in toilet everytime the meeting is held?Your boss sure will be suspicious of you if you do that everytime.Not all sh*t can be avoided,only some can.That is what i am trying to put across,you agreee?Mr Fearless?hehe
Now when you got nothing else to say you come out with new thing meeting is shit. Why not you say your office is shit. Your computer is shit? Shit refer to doing some lousy task which you don't want to do. Since you say outside world cannot escape, are you trying to tell me SAF you can? SAF is much much worst. Everything is order and you must follow.Cannot keep long hair?That is not a stupid rule.I ma sure in the management sector in the working world,there are sure to be some rules regarding hair length.I have not met any long hair male managers.Have you?As for dying hair,i have not met any managers with dyed hair except for black,have you?WEar uniform to book in?That is up to individual camp liaoz.When i was in SNT,i booked in wearing civilian and i was ok.It is wrong to say just because 1 camp say must book in with uniform,then you say it's a stupid SAF rule.The rule did not come from the SAF,but from the camp.This statement show that you are the type of person who if find 1 bad apple in a basket,will throw the whole basket of apples without checking which are the rotten apples and which are the good apples.Right?Cannot bring MD player to camp huh?That does not sound like such a stupid rule because SAF is a military organisation and has it's share of secrets.Thus the rule was to prevent a leakage of military secrets.In the working world,there are corporate secrets and such which i am sure not every company is willing to let it's competitors know.So it's logical,care to name me anymore illogical rules?heehe
Talk about hair style we don't only restrict ourself to manager. Are you trying to tell me you saw a lot of non manager keeping long hair and dye hair that's why you refuse to state other level other than management level? I do saw a lot of working class keeping long hair. I saw a lot of working class people dying hair. Not all camps need to book in in uniform, that means that there are still some camps which need you to book in in uniform, you so sure you wouldn't be posted to those camp which need you to wear uniform? When you got nothing to say, you claim I finding bad apple in basket. To my point of view, you refuse to fact the facts. Facts are already there and many people also feel that long hair, dye hair, wear uniform, bring MD player etc etc are some form of stupid restriction which a lot of people don't like. Just that you Mr Moose refuse to fact it. Trying to find some cannot stand reason to say my point is not right.My judgements on what is wrong is based on logical thinking.You say if you are capable,you will be employable.How about if a old man quite his job at 60 and finds another job,he got 5 more years to go and is capable.What is the percentage of companies that will employ a 60 year old man to do the same job he did before and still get same pay if he is still capable.Now the retirement age for WOs are 55 and not 45.So a person can still work until 55 in the SAF.If he is not a WO,he can safely retire with a huge graduity package and CPF compared to the outside world where if you retire at 45,you get only CPF.I am sure everyone wants to retire early if they can afford it and have the money instead of working and getting up early for work when they are old.I am no exception.so once someone from the SAF retires at 45 which is in the minority,the graduity and CPF can be a huge amount,enough for retirement,ehehe
After you realise your mistake that a 40 years old people can find job easily, you change your statement to 60 years old. So you already agree to my initally point that a 40 years old person can find job easily? Now you bring out another point, retire at 45. My question is, by 45 how old would your children be? Perhaps going to 20s or just pass 20s? Isn't that a time where you need money for your children for studies, marriage etc etc? You think you can survive for your rest of your life with that sum of graduity? You still need to live for another 30 years if you can live until 75 years old (normal life span for a person). The amount of graduity can last you for 30 years including support your family?How long can they person cover your duty?2 months?6 months or 1 year?you said you can go overseas as long as you like,so if you go overseas for 6 months.Do you think your company will still pay you to go enjoy yourself overseas for six months and get someone who will complain at having extra workload for 6 months or just sack you?Anyway,in the working world,it's is not so easy to take leave.Leave is subject to approval and more often,if you are too busy,then don't go on leave.It's as simple as that.anyway,you know any company who will let their employee go overseas as long as they want?I am comparing logically,but it's your statement that lead me to presume otherwise,especially that statement that you can go overseas as long as you wish.If you think that i compare illogical things,then please name me some logicals thigns to compare and by the way,please tell me as i wish to be in that company if a company allows an employee to go overseas as he wish,ehehe
You can always get unpaid leave if company manpower allows you to do so. Are you telling me that SAF allows you to go oversea for long leave? Go leave doesn't mean got for 6 months 1 year. You are quoating extreme examples to support your stand. Outside world, you can always go oversea leave for 1 weeks 2 weeks easily. SAF, you fat hope. SAF you think take leave to go oversea is so easy? You compare logically? I doubt so. You like to quote extreme examples which outside world cannot provide and neither SAF can provide. You quote example, quote those that outside world cannot provide yet SAF can.
Your reply is in a mess. Hope I didn't miss out answering any part of your point.
[This message has been edited by Fearless (edited 11 January 2001).]