"Mandarin" is a political language enforce by rulers.
Nowadays radio do have dialect news right?
Originally posted by angel7030:
If i am not wrong, according to my grandma here, she told me, last time singapore radio or what reddifussion channel also got newsreader and story tellers reading chinese text and speak out dialect, nice pure dialect, like Hokkien, teochew, cantonese, Hakka etc etc...therefore, my grandma said, actually all these are not dialects, but the govt make it or call it as dialects because they dun want to have gang and a separated society like teochew clan, hokkien clan and so on, she miss those years of listening to those story tellers..and i really feel pity for my young singaporean friends who are deprive of their original culture and a total lost of identity.
yup you are right
Strictly speaking, Chinese dialects are too divergent too be called dialects.
They are full-flegded languages on their separate entity.
It is downgraded to the status of "dialects" due to politicization.
Feedback via email: Due to the ban on dialect drama serials and dialect songs, we see a dramatic drop in viewership and listenership for TV stations, radio stations and cinemas. In view that the Speak Mandarin compaign was already a success, why can't we allow dialect drama serials or movies to be telecast on TV or at cinemas, and allow radio stations to play dialect songs? Reply from Media Development Authority Dear Feedback Contributor 1. We refer to your feedback on providing more dialect programmes. 2. Although the Speak Mandarin Campaign has achieved a certain degree of success, the dilemma over the issue of dialect has not abated, as many of our school-going children still have difficulty coping with two languages and mastering them effectively. Faced with the competition from rising English usage, the problem of falling Chinese standards among young Chinese Singaporeans will be exacerbated if the profile of dialects in the media were raised, as the addition of another competing language will unwittingly decrease Mandarin usage further, or encourage sub-standard Mandarin, mixed with dialect. It is for this reason that Singapore has adopted the policy of limiting the exposure of dialects in the media, as it would be difficult to arrest the decline of Mandarin once it sets in. 3. Therefore, while there is some leeway for dialect content to cater to niche audiences, especially the elderly, MDA's language guidelines for TV and radio support the Speak Mandarin policy. Currently, on free-to-air TV, Channel 8 currently broadcasts dialect operas and OKTO enjoys leeway to show arthouse movies with some dialect if the films have artistic merit. Dialect news bulletins are available on MediaCorp Radio's Capital 95.8FM. 4. For more dialect programmes, viewers can choose from subscription TV services like SCV or SingTel's MioTV. Channels like TVBJ on SCV and Mei Ah Channel on MioTV offer dialect programmes, while some dialect songs are available on music channels offered by these pay TV operators. Programmes in dialect are also offered on Video On Demand (VOD) services by SCV and MioTV. As for radio programmes, dialect radio programmes can be found on Rediffusion's subscription radio service. 5. As for dialect films, those with artistic merit are allowed for limited screening on a case-by-case basis at film festivals or film society screenings. In addition, films with some dialect content are allowed for theatrical release. Examples include 'Ah Long Pte Ltd' , '881', 'The Accidental Spy' (starring Jackie Chan) and 'Kungfu Dunk'. 6. There is no restriction on dialect content in DVDs and VCDs for commercial release. 7. We thank you for your feedback. MDA Customer Services
Article Details
Originally posted by BanguIzai:
2. Although the Speak Mandarin Campaign has achieved a certain degree of success, the dilemma over the issue of dialect has not abated, as many of our school-going children still have difficulty coping with two languages and mastering them effectively. Faced with the competition from rising English usage, the problem of falling Chinese standards among young Chinese Singaporeans will be exacerbated if the profile of dialects in the media were raised, as the addition of another competing language will unwittingly decrease Mandarin usage further, or encourage sub-standard Mandarin, mixed with dialect. It is for this reason that Singapore has adopted the policy of limiting the exposure of dialects in the media, as it would be difficult to arrest the decline of Mandarin once it sets in.
Doesn't make any sort of sense to me.
They want people to speak mandarin but created society to use english as dominant language. The entire policy is rubbish.
Chinese schools also destroyed. Dialect want to suppress and sacrifice.
Singapore majority are dialect speakers but they invent some rubbish logic to sacrifice the interests of the majority.
This anglo bastard Lee Kuan Yew, mess up entire society. Fucking bastard.
This peranakan F****** B****** Harry Lee Kuan Yew has been suppressing the dialect chinese for quite some time already in Singapore.
I think the time to end his bullshit has come.
It make perfect sense to apply English as a neutral language given the political Race climate in Singapore.
In any case that is why the National Pledge is supposed to be the basic fundamental rights of all Singaporean including the minorities. Rather than an "aspiration" as a back paddle by LKY.....
bottomline is that our government needs to stop social engineering and let takes its natural course providing Options and Choices for educations are still the best bet on prserving languages.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:It make perfect sense to apply English as a neutral language given the political Race climate in Singapore.
English as neutral language? Doesn't make sense to me. English is language of colonial elites and colonial masters.
Colonial language is politically "neutral" language? I think if you use a colonial language means you still kowtow to those colonial elites. The mindset is still in colonial days.
A significant category of Chinese, although one not listed in the census reports, were the Baba Chinese or Straits Chinese. They were Chinese who after long residence in Southeast Asia spoke Malay or English as their first language, and whose culture contained elements from China, Southeast Asia, and sometimes Europe as well. An indication of the size of the Baba Chinese community was provided by the 1980 census report that 9 percent of Chinese families spoke English at home. Stereotypically the Baba were the offspring of Chinese migrants and local women. In the nineteenth century, they tended to be wealthier and better educated than the mass of immigrants and to identify more with Singapore and Southeast Asia than with China. In spite of their language, the Baba considered themselves Chinese, retained Chinese kinship patterns and religion, and even when speaking Malay used a distinct Baba dialect of Malay with many loan words from Hokkien.
Never a large proportion of Singapore's Chinese population, in the late nineteenth century they took advantage of opportunities for education in English and promoted themselves as loyal to Britain.
In Singapore, many Baba families spoke English as a first language and produced many of the leaders of Singapore's independent political movements, including Lee Kuan Yew...
The very idea of "neutral" language sounds like a PAP propaganda bullshit to me.
Which other countries got this type of rubbish concept as "neutral" language?
The entire thing is a political ploy used by PAP to serve their own narrow interests.
In colonial Singapore, the nearest thing to a common language had been Bazaar Malay, a form of Malay with simplified grammar and a very restricted vocabulary that members of many ethnic groups used to communicate in the marketplace. The government used English, with translators employed when necessary, as in the courts. Among the Chinese a simplified form of Hokkien served as the language of the marketplace.
The Chinese schools, which were founded in large numbers in the early years of the twentieth century and associated with the rise of Chinese nationalism, attempted to teach in Mandarin Guoyu, the use of which on such formal occasions as weddings and Chinese national holiday celebrations came to carry some prestige. In the terminology of sociolinguistics, Singapore's language system was multilingual and diglossiac, that is, characterized by two languages or dialects, high and low, or classical and vernacular, each used in different social contexts and carrying differential prestige. Bazaar Malay and market Hokkien were the low languages, employed in the streets and market places, and English and Mandarin were the high languages, used in education, government offices, and public celebrations. In addition, such native tongues as pure Malay, Teochiu, Tamil, or Punjabi were used in the home and in gatherings of members of the same speech group.
In a 1972 survey asking which language people understood, Hokkien came first, at 73 percent, followed by Malay, with 57 percent. Malay was the most important language for intergroup communication, with almost all the Indians and 45 percent of the Chinese claiming to understand it.
English came second, understood by 47 percent of the total population.
A follow-up survey in 1978 showed that 67 percent claimed to understand Malay and 62 percent to comprehend English. As the 1990s approached English was replacing Malay as the common language.
http://countrystudies.us/singapore/20.htm
Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:English as neutral language? Doesn't make sense to me. English is language of colonial elites and colonial masters.
Colonial language is politically "neutral" language? I think if you use a colonial language means you still kowtow to those colonial elites. The mindset is still in colonial days.
A significant category of Chinese, although one not listed in the census reports, were the Baba Chinese or Straits Chinese. They were Chinese who after long residence in Southeast Asia spoke Malay or English as their first language, and whose culture contained elements from China, Southeast Asia, and sometimes Europe as well. An indication of the size of the Baba Chinese community was provided by the 1980 census report that 9 percent of Chinese families spoke English at home. Stereotypically the Baba were the offspring of Chinese migrants and local women. In the nineteenth century, they tended to be wealthier and better educated than the mass of immigrants and to identify more with Singapore and Southeast Asia than with China. In spite of their language, the Baba considered themselves Chinese, retained Chinese kinship patterns and religion, and even when speaking Malay used a distinct Baba dialect of Malay with many loan words from Hokkien.
Never a large proportion of Singapore's Chinese population, in the late nineteenth century they took advantage of opportunities for education in English and promoted themselves as loyal to Britain.
In Singapore, many Baba families spoke English as a first language and produced many of the leaders of Singapore's independent political movements, including Lee Kuan Yew...
Neutral language by means of regional racial politics.....perhaps you have a much shorter memories......needless to says you continue to propagate chinese politics in this forums.
The National Pledge is not about the majority is about protecting the minority to have the equal rights from the majority.
So perharps if it is not malay majority it should not be Chinese majority. To Strike the balance of power English became the neutral language so if you assume by siding Mandarin is going to side the Racial overtone think again..... Our region race politics has not move an inch since independent.
by the way i thought this topics was in speaker corners???
dialects are important as part of cultural and historical identity, bondage and preservation. It differentiates and has varied meaning and symbols that enhances personal values, aside to English or Mandarin. Dialects add spices to the main course.
English and Mandarin is greatly promoted due to its economic significances and unity of a pluralistic society subject to its majority.
All are important with different uses.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:yup you are right
Strictly speaking, Chinese dialects are too divergent too be called dialects.
They are full-flegded languages on their separate entity.
It is downgraded to the status of "dialects" due to politicization.
oh, i am right??? but when i did a thesis on GP writing about disadvantages of poltical monopolisation, i wrote about lost of identity due to demises of dialect by politician, my lecturer give me a "F", he called me into his office and lecturered me, he said, "the govt did not stop you from speaking dialects, you dun get jail for it, what they did was to improve communication, nothing sort of losing your identities and all those stupid thing you wrote, Get Out!"
To ease the killing of something, first give it a label. Something that is not a popular label. Like labeling a language as a dialect.
It easier to kill a Hokkien dialect than to kill the Hokkien language.
China a multi-racial country. The people are able to speak their ethnic language plus Mandarin.
The same should be for Singapore.
People should be able to speak their ethnic language plus English.
But the Singapore government wants the "Chinese" to speak English plus Mandarin only. When in fact the Chinese here should be able to speak English, Mandarin and their ethnic language i.e. to be tri-lingual. But someone decreed that that would be too great a task for the Chinese school children here, who are already highly stressed with the normal school curriculum. So the "dialect " should be killed to ease the promotion of Mandarin.
As for the analogy of the French not able to speak French.
According to Article 2 of the Constitution, amended in 1992, French is the sole official language of France. Therefore, France is the only Western European nation (excluding microstates) to have only one officially recognised language. However, 77 regional languages are also spoken, in metropolitan France as well as in the overseas departments and territories. Until recently, the French government and state school system discouraged the use of any of these languages, but they are now taught to varying degrees at some schools.[89] Other languages, such as Portuguese, Italian, Maghrebi Arabic and several Berber languages are spoken by immigrants. Source ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France
They have a national language, and their so called regional language, and they let it be.
In Singapore people are being altered by the state.
Originally posted by angel7030:
oh, i am right??? but when i did a thesis on GP writing about disadvantages of poltical monopolisation, i wrote about lost of identity due to demises of dialect by politician, my lecturer give me a "F", he called me into his office and lecturered me, he said, "the govt did not stop you from speaking dialects, you dun get jail for it, what they did was to improve communication, nothing sort of losing your identities and all those stupid thing you wrote, Get Out!"
very controversial mah, different people got different point of view
Originally posted by mancha:To ease the killing of something, first give it a label. Something that is not a popular label. Like labeling a language as a dialect.
It easier to kill a Hokkien dialect than to kill the Hokkien language.
China a multi-racial country. The people are able to speak their ethnic language plus Mandarin.
The same should be for Singapore.
People should be able to speak their ethnic language plus English.
But the Singapore government wants the "Chinese" to speak English plus Mandarin only. When in fact the Chinese here should be able to speak English, Mandarin and their ethnic language i.e. to be tri-lingual. But someone decreed that that would be too great a task for the Chinese school children here, who are already highly stressed with the normal school curriculum. So the "dialect " should be killed to ease the promotion of Mandarin.
As for the analogy of the French not able to speak French.
According to Article 2 of the Constitution, amended in 1992, French is the sole official language of France. Therefore, France is the only Western European nation (excluding microstates) to have only one officially recognised language. However, 77 regional languages are also spoken, in metropolitan France as well as in the overseas departments and territories. Until recently, the French government and state school system discouraged the use of any of these languages, but they are now taught to varying degrees at some schools.[89] Other languages, such as Portuguese, Italian, Maghrebi Arabic and several Berber languages are spoken by immigrants. Source ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France
They have a national language, and their so called regional language, and they let it be.
In Singapore people are being altered by the state.
mancha, very true.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:Neutral language by means of regional racial politics.....perhaps you have a much shorter memories......needless to says you continue to propagate chinese politics in this forums.
The National Pledge is not about the majority is about protecting the minority to have the equal rights from the majority.
So perharps if it is not malay majority it should not be Chinese majority. To Strike the balance of power English became the neutral language so if you assume by siding Mandarin is going to side the Racial overtone think again..... Our region race politics has not move an inch since independent.
Before I go on, you are from which ethnic group?
Originally posted by mancha:To ease the killing of something, first give it a label. Something that is not a popular label. Like labeling a language as a dialect.
It easier to kill a Hokkien dialect than to kill the Hokkien language.
China a multi-racial country. The people are able to speak their ethnic language plus Mandarin.
The same should be for Singapore.
People should be able to speak their ethnic language plus English.
But the Singapore government wants the "Chinese" to speak English plus Mandarin only. When in fact the Chinese here should be able to speak English, Mandarin and their ethnic language i.e. to be tri-lingual. But someone decreed that that would be too great a task for the Chinese school children here, who are already highly stressed with the normal school curriculum. So the "dialect " should be killed to ease the promotion of Mandarin.
As for the analogy of the French not able to speak French.
According to Article 2 of the Constitution, amended in 1992, French is the sole official language of France. Therefore, France is the only Western European nation (excluding microstates) to have only one officially recognised language. However, 77 regional languages are also spoken, in metropolitan France as well as in the overseas departments and territories. Until recently, the French government and state school system discouraged the use of any of these languages, but they are now taught to varying degrees at some schools.[89] Other languages, such as Portuguese, Italian, Maghrebi Arabic and several Berber languages are spoken by immigrants. Source ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France
They have a national language, and their so called regional language, and they let it be.
In Singapore people are being altered by the state.
what you say is true.
Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:Before I go on, you are from which ethnic group?
i am surprised you need to ask.
Originally posted by BanguIzai:it's a sad thing but a fact :
although many Chinese in China (when asked by me) says that "Yes, we still pretty much speak dialects back at home - China"
it is observed through scholarly studies by linguists that certain number of major dialects in China are also in the process of dying, by way of erosion of Standard Mandarin vocabulary and changes in phonology by way of Mandarin influence
usual man-on-the-street won't notice this change, that's why they still claim dialects are very pretty much alive
some examples:
- i asked a Fuzhou young girl before (6 years ago), she told me roughly 30%-40% of her vocab with other friends of the same age are code-switched between Mandarin & the Fuzhou dialect. a similar trend is observed among Shanghai youths
- a preface of a Chaozhou dictionary published in 2009 shows that Chaozhou kids below 12 years of age now speak an artificial Chaozhou dialect whose grammar is based heavily on Mandarin
^^^ direct quote from the preface:
" 一直以來,我å°�潮汕地å�€å°�å¸ç”Ÿæ½®å·žè©±èªžè¨€èƒ½åŠ›çš„退化深以爲慮。æ�®äº†è§£ï¼Œç›®å‰�潮汕地å�€æœ‰éƒ¨åˆ†å°�å¸ç”Ÿåœ¨å¸æ ¡è£�是è�¼ä¸�到也ä¸�能講潮州話的,由æ¤å¸¶ä¾†çš„å•�題是,相當部分的潮汕å°�å¸ç”Ÿä¸�會講準確ã€�æµ�利而å�ˆç”Ÿå‹•çš„潮州話å�£èªžï¼Œè€Œå�ªæœƒæ‹—è‘—å�£ï¼Œç”¨æ½®å·žè©±çš„讀音念著既åƒ�是普通話書é�¢èªžè€Œå�ˆå¤¾é›œè‘—潮州話特點的å�Šæ–‡ä¸�白的毫無生氣的“硬诔的書é�¢æ½®å·žè©±ï¼Œã€‚。。"- Hongkongers are also starting to feel the threat of Mandarin imposing over the Cantonese speaking populations already. a book titled "《ä¿�衛粵語,ä¿�衛方言—ä¸�容普通話ç�¨æ”¬ä¸åœ‹èªžè¨€æ–‡åŒ–之解讀權ã€�演繹權與發展權ï¼�》" is published in 2009 which talks about Cantonese preserving the many aspects of Ancient Chinese not preserved in Mandarin
- a linguistic article observes that Cantonese spoken in Guangzhou News Broadcast has given up a few traditional pronunciations in favour of Mandarin-styled pronunciations, most notably:-
^^^ "Egypt" - "埃�" Traditionally pronounced "Oi K'ap" but now "Ai K'ap"
^^^ "Islet" - "島嶼" Traditionally pronounced "Tou Tsoey" but now "Tou Yu"
^^^ "Toys" - "玩具" Traditionally pronounced "Wun Koey" but now "Wan Koey"
*note that all the new pronunciations imitates Mandarin Chinese- a linguistic article observes that Hokkien spoken in Zhangzhou by people younger than 20's has lost the final "-p -t -k" endings and changed them to "-(glottal stop)" ~influenced by Mandarin which does not have consonantal clipped finals
- many Shanghainese common words are replaced with Mandarin equivalents and Shanghainese told me the Original Vocab (In Red) is only spoken by "old people"
^^^ "Place" Traditionally said "Zang Ho" ~ å ´åŒ– but now "Di Fang" ~ 地方
^^^ "Son-In-Law" 女婿 Traditionally pronounced "Nü Xi" but now "Nü Xü" ~ vowel conforming to Mandarin norm
^^^ "Relations" 關係 Traditionally pronounced "Kue Yi" but now "Kue Xi" ~ consonant conforming to Mandarin norm
I guess these dialects evolve. Dialects will never die off, at least not in China. In south east asian countries like ours, yes it will....sooner or later.
Originally posted by dragg:i am surprised you need to ask.
And what would that be base on your "Race based" assumption.....
Originally posted by Rock^Star:I guess these dialects evolve. Dialects will never die off, at least not in China. In south east asian countries like ours, yes it will....sooner or later.
In Vietnam there were alot of ethnics chinese particularly Teochew ethnicity....these days the younger generation of vietnames speak more Vietnamese than the dialect.
Of Course, Hokkien is my actual mother tongue.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
In Vietnam there were alot of ethnics chinese particularly Teochew ethnicity....these days the younger generation of vietnames speak more Vietnamese than the dialect.
Oh they still do? Thats cool. I ever met a Viet who spoke cantonese to me.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
In Vietnam there were alot of ethnics chinese particularly Teochew ethnicity....these days the younger generation of vietnames speak more Vietnamese than the dialect.
hmmm interesting...
I do not know much abt viets... so there's a large community of teochew among the viet?