Should females that commit serious crime be caned as well?
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Originally posted by Moka:
2 cents worth,
firstly I'm glad that you know about science and is able to pull your stand clearly and backed with reasons. unlike some.
since female reproductive organs are internal , there is always the possibility of ovaries bursting, or pelvic fracture due to the impact of caning. It is harder to diagnose because it bleeds internally, and could be fatal. Is there ever caning perform for woman except Malaysia's three cases? Malaysia did not specify how heavy the caning would be for woman as well, so I can only guess it is light punishment.
It's a sterotype that man are stronger and woman are weaker, hence, man are more aggressive, with actions and woman are meeker, with words. Applies generally, but not specifically.
Not sure what the statistics say but it says more woman are unemployed. Woman faced a career ceiling, and harder to be employed. another example is woman who play around are sluts/bitches while it's a norm for man to play around. check the forums is there one who say "female looking for fun?"
Caning is not just a form of punishment but more importantly, it acts as a deterrent from doing that crime. Gender equality certainty cannot be the sole basis for such debate, because, one should understand the genetic differences between a male and a female. % of repeated offenders, ratio of offenders between males/females, social impact, and many more comes into the picture. I find it appalling to see people argue for the sake of arguing, and caning for the sake of caning.
Lastly, in my previous post, I do agree on implementing caning on woman, if the crime rates are as high as man AND there is a need to curb such potential problem.
Me likes your 2 cents
And for the malaysia one...I think they cane the women with their clothes on...and with a lighter cane...in fact they said it didn't hurt...0_0...not sure if it's true or a cover up...
And I think they were caned on the back? not very sure
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Me likes your 2 cents
And for the malaysia one...I think they cane the women with their clothes on...and with a lighter cane...in fact they said it didn't hurt...0_0...not sure if it's true or a cover up...
And I think they were caned on the back? not very sure
haha.. thanks wor, quite frustrated at the fact that man thinks that woman are so good and so easy to survive in this society, when it's actually so hard. not to say me, neither here nor there.No la, cannot cane on the back one, snap how? lol... but they use lighter cane for sure. maybe stacked 10cm thick cloth on their backside. But Malaysia imposes caning on woman who drinks.. I wonder how many times I will be caned if I'm Malaysian.
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Originally posted by Moka:
haha.. thanks wor, quite frustrated at the fact that man thinks that woman are so good and so easy to survive in this society, when it's actually so hard. not to say me, neither here nor there.No la, cannot cane on the back one, snap how? lol... but they use lighter cane for sure. maybe stacked 10cm thick cloth on their backside. But Malaysia imposes caning on woman who drinks.. I wonder how many times I will be caned if I'm Malaysian.
psst, u ish hermaphrodite.
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Originally posted by Moka:
haha.. thanks wor, quite frustrated at the fact that man thinks that woman are so good and so easy to survive in this society, when it's actually so hard. not to say me, neither here nor there.No la, cannot cane on the back one, snap how? lol... but they use lighter cane for sure. maybe stacked 10cm thick cloth on their backside. But Malaysia imposes caning on woman who drinks.. I wonder how many times I will be caned if I'm Malaysian.
Wah you drink alot ah
lol
And I think in some other islamic countries they dun cane the women, they whip them, and it's across the back.
Sometimes they even stone them to death.
Bloody assholes.
And the stats are shit! Dun even have to look for stats! Just look at how many companies who are willing to hire pregnant women. Look at how society frowns upon women who breast feed in public, until they have to hide in toilets to feed their kids. And I can go on and on. But no point.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
And what are the other offenses? Rape? Let me ask you, is it feasible to change the law just to accomodate the very few women who would actually rape a man?
http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm
Not just rape. Many many many
By the way, I was talking SCIENCE in case you didn't notice. It is a proven fact that generally men have tougher bones, skin and do not have wombs growing in their abdomen. Unless you are going to argue otherwise? And if you are going to go all out to cane women with the same force as men. Then with all these differences, WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF WOMEN SUFFERING GREATER OR EVEN PERMANENT INJURIES? Please actually read my post before you comment.
THIS IS BASIC COMMON SENSE.
I am talking about the effect of the punishment. Not generalised things like that. The question is whether the punishment is sufficient to cause greater damages. Like broken bones and decreased fertility. Tougher bones and having wombs does not mean damage will be done to it. Thats what i am talking about.
And by the way, do you know of any countries out there who cane women, with the same amount of force as those administered in SG? Then would it be reasonable to suggest that this may be the reason why such articles don't exist? In fact, you may as well ask a doctor for his opinion.
see above. The above can actually be testing using Prothestic dummies to emulate the female anatomy.The question is not is there any countries outside singapore. It is the tolerance of the female physique.
In fact, whining and complaining on the forum about how unfair the law is to men, with regards to the caning issue, would be a hundred times more infantile don't you think? Instead of arguing with me, why don't you devote your time to writing a letter to the govt instead? I'm not gonna change the law for you even if you win the argument.
No i dont find it infantile and i am not complaining. I just find it nice to exercise my head abit. I think most of my posts are questioning as to why women cannot be caned. Or are replies to some other forumers points. Its more oriented to finding reasons. Not a crusade to amend the law. I would not know if you are able to change the law and i dont expect it.
And you can't think of other issues that may be involved?
1. Before caning the women you will need to check if her bones are strong enough, and whether she is suffering from osteoporosis.
A condition a man can also suffer from.
2. You would need to check if she is anemic
A condition a man can also suffer from although women are at higher risk due to menstruation.
3. You would need to check if she is muslim. (a muslim female is prohibited from baring her body in the presence of other men)
Need to check meh? i believe court documents will indicate your ethinicity. Caning can also be done by a girl. Nobody said it must be a guy.
4. You would need to see if she's pregnant, and most women can go ard this simply by getting pregnant.
Indeed but not probable. You have to be very lucky.
5. You need to check if she's having her period before you cane her.
Depends really on whether it has any effect on the punishment does it?
6. In the light of all the issues, which I a layperson has churned out, what makes you think the govt would go thru with the effort just to cane a few women?
7. Amending this law would probably cause the rest of the world to hate SG. Just look at the furore caning ppl has caused.
Enough issues for you? Want some more?
No. Because women rights groups will spring into action, international communities would probably be against it (voters impt). But that is unimportant. Because this is a forum to exchange views on topics. Currently it will not. But in the future, if some research group finds evidence that caning of girls does not have the problems in which you refer to as "common-sense", things might change.
I am not suggesting anything but please realise that in life, doing the right thing is not enough. We must consider factors like should we do it, when to do it and how to do it.
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haha...ya lor, that's why I'm neither here nor there ma... But I can be like Chameleon, can switch one =D
I drink to entertain friends, sometimes when I cannot sleep I will drink one cup. When it comes to female discrimination, the worse is middle east and africa. In middle east, a woman is worth half a man. There is a case where the man blinded both eyes, disfigured whole face of a woman, and the sentence is one of the man's eye get blinded. In Africa, one of the most horrifying is rape + female circumcision.. ouch!!
when that assdragon says about monthly period can get mc, I almost want to strangle him.
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
Please refer to moka's reply then, she posted something with regards to your fertility qn.Science has proven that women are more susceptible to bone loss, anemia, and recently there was even something about how women have twice the amount of pain receptors as compared to men.
Do you know how they cane in SG? If you are proposing the same kind of treatment for women, you better be prepared to deal with the complications that may arise from it.
And I've posted before, the pelvic bone may crack, break or shift during child birth, if you injure the woman (wound her pelvic region) during the caning, what are the odds that it will affect her pregnancy?
And wth? Are you gonna cane someone who's dripping blood between her legs?
but please realise that in life, doing the right thing is not enough.
So we should do the wrong thing?
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Originally posted by Moka:
haha...ya lor, that's why I'm neither here nor there ma... But I can be like Chameleon, can switch one =D
I drink to entertain friends, sometimes when I cannot sleep I will drink one cup. When it comes to female discrimination, the worse is middle east and africa. In middle east, a woman is worth half a man. There is a case where the man blinded both eyes, disfigured whole face of a woman, and the sentence is one of the man's eye get blinded. In Africa, one of the most horrifying is rape + female circumcision.. ouch!!
when that assdragon says about monthly period can get mc, I almost want to strangle him.
Lol
Assdragon =X
Yeah and I've heard of that acid case too...
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Originally posted by Moka:
2 cents worth,
firstly I'm glad that you know about science and is able to pull your stand clearly and backed with reasons. unlike some.
since female reproductive organs are internal , there is always the possibility of ovaries bursting, or pelvic fracture due to the impact of caning. It is harder to diagnose because it bleeds internally, and could be fatal. Is there ever caning perform for woman except Malaysia's three cases? Malaysia did not specify how heavy the caning would be for woman as well, so I can only guess it is light punishment.
Thats speculative, have no data on it
It's a sterotype that man are stronger and woman are weaker, hence, man are more aggressive, with actions and woman are meeker, with words. Applies generally, but not specifically.
Stereotype indeed. Although there is not alot of evidence to suggest that women are kinder. This is just my opinion, but girls seems to be masters of mind-games. More pro den alex ferguson.
Not sure what the statistics say but it says more woman are unemployed. Woman faced a career ceiling, and harder to be employed. another example is woman who play around are sluts/bitches while it's a norm for man to play around. check the forums is there one who say "female looking for fun?"
This is the world economic forum gender gap 2009. search on google can find le. While more women are unemplyed percentage wise, it is worth looking at the labour force participation which stands at 0.73 (73% of men). which means in numerical terms, more males are unemployed. Wage equity for similiar work (0.79) and ability of women to rise to enterprise leadership(5.87/7) are based on surveys and not figures. So i wont comment on them
Caning is not just a form of punishment but more importantly, it acts as a deterrent from doing that crime. Gender equality certainty cannot be the sole basis for such debate, because, one should understand the genetic differences between a male and a female. % of repeated offenders, ratio of offenders between males/females, social impact, and many more comes into the picture. I find it appalling to see people argue for the sake of arguing, and caning for the sake of caning.
Lastly, in my previous post, I do agree on implementing caning on woman, if the crime rates are as high as man AND there is a need to curb such potential problem.
Thats why i keep emphasising the need for scientific evidence that proves that such a punishment will or will not have the effects that littlemissbonkers are concerned about. The argument that weaker bones la, placement of womb la is a factor, but whether anot it is affected ia another question
Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:And where did you get the figures from?
So are you saying that all the reports about discrimination of women at work are false? Then maybe you can take up this issue with the news agency with your "stats".
Go search for the article on google and read yourself.
And by the way, I didn't suggest that a longer sentence can be substituted for caning. Again another indication that you did not actually read or understand my post. I cannot SUGGEST a fact. I was simply STATING it.
"BTW, some judges will impose a longer jail term on those exempted from caning. So it all depends on the judge." This sentence suggests that a longer jail term is used as a substitute. Since you pointed it out i assumed that you agreed with it. therefore asked you for your opinions on the details of it.
If you are so adamant that caning would not affect fertility then please go and take up this issue with a physican. Maybe he/she will be able to provide you with some "convincing stats".
A usual normal GP cannot accurately tell la. Too may variables. So, testing is needed. Thats why we need publications. Anyway i did not claim that it WILL NOT affect. I simply said until now, nobody have shown evidence here that IT WILL.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Please refer to moka's reply then, she posted something with regards to your fertility qn.Science has proven that women are more susceptible to bone loss, anemia, and recently there was even something about how women have twice the amount of pain receptors as compared to men.
Bone loss result from the loss of calcium. Anemia is iron-deficiency. Pain receptors covered in 1st post. Is there any studies that show that caning causes these? or at the very least a correalation?
Do you know how they cane in SG? If you are proposing the same kind of treatment for women, you better be prepared to deal with the complications that may arise from it.
BMT also got modified one leh? Everything can change. Thats why in one of my posts i said tolerance.
And I've posted before, the pelvic bone may crack, break or shift during child birth, if you injure the woman (wound her pelvic region) during the caning, what are the odds that it will affect her pregnancy?
And wth? Are you gonna cane someone who's dripping blood between her legs?
Good question, we both have no answer. Lets search for it shall we?
but please realise that in life, doing the right thing is not enough.
So we should do the wrong thing?
Please dont quote half-way. It means doing the right thing requires more than it being right. a right thing at a wrong time, wrong method, can be disastrous. This is a logic impt in business and govts.
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
I can only say that I got the info about the whole caning will affect reproductive ability issue from an insider.And you're right, there are virtually no scientific reports on this, so the best way for you to find out would be to ask a professional, since you are so adamant on rejecting the use of common sense, logic and reasoning.
"BTW, some judges will impose a longer jail term on those exempted from caning. So it all depends on the judge." This sentence suggests that a longer jail term is used as a substitute. Since you pointed it out i assumed that you agreed with it. therefore asked you for your opinions on the details of it.
This is a FACT, and you can find stuff like this published all the time. Especially when the accused is a man who is above the legal age for caning.
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bonkers u all are still at it eh. take a time out lar
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
I can only say that I got the info about the whole caning will affect reproductive ability issue from an insider.And you're right, there are virtually no scientific reports on this, so the best way for you to find out would be to ask a professional, since you are so adamant on rejecting the use of common sense, logic and reasoning.
I am rejecting common sense, but not logic and reasoning. Because we do not know many things. Examples are which part of the body when hit will hurt the internal organs? what force is required to damage them etc etc.
"BTW, some judges will impose a longer jail term on those exempted from caning. So it all depends on the judge." This sentence suggests that a longer jail term is used as a substitute. Since you pointed it out i assumed that you agreed with it. therefore asked you for your opinions on the details of it.
This is a FACT, and you can find stuff like this published all the time. Especially when the accused is a man who is above the legal age for caning.
Forgive me for my ignorance but i really haven't come across any articles in which reports that the judge gave an extended jail sentence in place of caning. Pls advise
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
Hello? Got bone loss means more susceptible to fractures, cracks and etc. Must I explain everything to you?
And anemia means more susceptible to low blood pressure, fainting, ETC ETC. Can you please draw your own conclusions? In fact if the blood pressure gets too low, the person may go into shock.
And if a woman has twice the amount of pain receptors, then logically if she receives the same punichment, won't she be receiving TWICE the amt of pain and therefore, is punished TWICE as hard?
Wah lao, please dun make me explain all these rubbish anymore.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Hello? Got bone loss means more susceptible to fractures, cracks and etc. Must I explain everything to you?
And anemia means more susceptible to low blood pressure, fainting, ETC ETC. Can you please draw your own conclusions? In fact if the blood pressure gets too low, the person may go into shock.
And if a woman has twice the amount of pain receptors, then logically if she receives the same punichment, won't she be receiving TWICE the amt of pain and therefore, is punished TWICE as hard?
Wah lao, please dun make me explain all these rubbish anymore.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
lol
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Originally posted by Moka:
haha.. thanks wor, quite frustrated at the fact that man thinks that woman are so good and so easy to survive in this society, when it's actually so hard. not to say me, neither here nor there.No la, cannot cane on the back one, snap how? lol... but they use lighter cane for sure. maybe stacked 10cm thick cloth on their backside. But Malaysia imposes caning on woman who drinks.. I wonder how many times I will be caned if I'm Malaysian.
Hmmz actually hor, men and women both feeling the heat de la. women got more options le. just see the stupid report.
Labour force participation 0.73. Means alot of girls either housewives or shao nainai leh. Guys how to be shao gong gong. I got a friend, the wife song song dunwan work. tell the husband go settle. Guys also very stress you know. One of the reasons is cos girls talk equality yet dun wan to give up the things that are used to traditionally protect women. Like the code of chivalry, husband must provide for family la. all these ma. Equality is sama sama wad. is ni qing wo yuan de. not a social expectation of gender roles lor.
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
Hmmz actually hor, men and women both feeling the heat de la. women got more options le. just see the stupid report.
Labour force participation 0.73. Means alot of girls either housewives or shao nainai leh. Guys how to be shao gong gong. I got a friend, the wife song song dunwan work. tell the husband go settle. Guys also very stress you know. One of the reasons is cos girls talk equality yet dun wan to give up the things that are used to traditionally protect women. Like the code of chivalry, husband must provide for family la. all these ma. Equality is sama sama wad. is ni qing wo yuan de. not a social expectation of gender roles lor.
Just one woman...and u blacklist the whole lot?
How about all the other women who work to support their families? Maybe u can look up stats for this. How many women actually work even after they are married and have kids. I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2.
Are they all shao nai nai too?
Please don't stereotype.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Just one woman...and u blacklist the whole lot?
How about all the other women who work to support their families? Maybe u can look up stats for this. How many women actually work even after they are married and have kids. I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2.
Are they all shao nai nai too?
Please don't stereotype.
I declare bonkers and moka win tonight. go back sleep and back fresh tommorrow.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Hello? Got bone loss means more susceptible to fractures, cracks and etc. Must I explain everything to you?
Bone loss due to menopause...
And anemia means more susceptible to low blood pressure, fainting, ETC ETC. Can you please draw your own conclusions? In fact if the blood pressure gets too low, the person may go into shock.
Yea. The solution is one tablet away. Once per month due to menstruation. Means there are days where they dont lose blood.
And if a woman has twice the amount of pain receptors, then logically if she receives the same punichment, won't she be receiving TWICE the amt of pain and therefore, is punished TWICE as hard?
Wah lao, please dun make me explain all these rubbish anymore.
Please read the first post. I also dunwan repeat
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I declare bonkers and moka win tonight. go back sleep and back fresh tommorrow.
lol
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
I don't know if you know any gals at all or not. But alot of gals are anemic all the time, whether or not they are having their periods.
And what bone loss due to menopause? Bone loss occurs during pregnancy too! You think all the gals we're caning are teenagers ah? Hello you have to consider the aunties and the moms who have given birth too.
Like I've said, I would consider caning females too complicated and labour intensive to carry out. Imagine, after caning you'll need to give them a complete check up, bring them to a gynae to check if there is any internal damage, etc, etc. Do you think the govt would want to do all these? You wanna pay for some criminal's gynae check up?
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Just one woman...and u blacklist the whole lot?
How about all the other women who work to support their families? Maybe u can look up stats for this. How many women actually work even after they are married and have kids. I'm sure there are more than just 1 or 2.
Please read properly. The labour force participation is 73% of men. The overall population sex ration(male/female) is 0.96. Meaning there are more women than men. Unless there is a great skew, which is unlikely, and assuming equal number of working age male-female, that represents many women are housewifes, shao nainai or somehow left out.
Are they all shao nai nai too?
The example was to show that there are women that wants to turn away from their traditional gender roles, which is rightfully so, but wishes to enjoy the benefits of their traditional gender roles, which is contrary to the flag of equality so proudly raised. As it would represent the reversal of roles into a maternal society. It therefore becomes a fight for supremacy.
Please don't stereotype.
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Originally posted by ahbeo:
Then maybe you should look into the way you phrase your comments. -
Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
I don't know if you know any gals at all or not. But alot of gals are anemic all the time, whether or not they are having their periods.
Cos they dont eat iron!!! feed them iron can liao!
And what bone loss due to menopause? Bone loss occurs during pregnancy too! You think all the gals we're caning are teenagers ah? Hello you have to consider the aunties and the moms who have given birth too.
Actually i am considering the condition Osteoporosis in which people develop brittle bones. Male incidence is 12%, women 50%. Anyway a doctor is supposed to check the person up before the canning. So that is actually covered.
Like I've said, I would consider caning females too complicated and labour intensive to carry out. Imagine, after caning you'll need to give them a complete check up, bring them to a gynae to check if there is any internal damage, etc, etc. Do you think the govt would want to do all these? You wanna pay for some criminal's gynae check up?
Actually if a good feasibility study and procedures are done, it might not be that complex afterall.