5Cs
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Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
Gender Wars is an old win/dos game...
Oh yeah.. I think I recall something like that...
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To:elindra
Think about it, why the world is changing? Who are the ones encouraging women to work? Who caused the change? Women.
It's not about the issue who earns more, who earns less. It regards to who's responsibility is that.
Back in stone age, men are out to hunt for food. Women stayed in caves to take care of the young ones. Research has shown that men has thicker skin than women. Nobody can deny that. I don't see any women go out to hunt for food. That's not their instinct.
Simply, women don't want to stay at homes to be homemaker, because they can't cook, do laundry, and many more. Thus, maids come into picture. Do you see any male maids around? No. If yes, I am worried.
First, if women want to work, they have to make sure that the house is being well taken care of by HER, not by other people. If she can't take care of her house well enough, drop the idea of going out to work. However, if women want to work, no problem with that. Men are much more happier that there is an extra income. However, the key issue is whether women can ENSURE everything is alright at home?
Men don't do nothing at home, they do contribute to the family with household chores. You got to choose the right men.
Men's role in the family: Bring $ back home(primarily), take care of the house(secondary)
Women's role in the family: Take care of the house(primarily), bring $ back home(secondary)
Anyway, your ancestors as a female role in the family have been doing it for centuries. Why CAN'T you? You cannot take up such challenges as a 21st century women or women in this era getting weaker? Perhaps both.
It's alright to engage maids at home, your children will start to treat the maids as their mums. Take care of them, feed them, bathe them and even coach them with their homeworks. What about women's position at home? You are nothing but a child bearer.
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It's not about the issue who earns more, who earns less. It regards to who's responsibility is that.
Both have the responsibility.
Back in stone age, men are out to hunt for food. Women stayed in caves to take care of the young ones. Research has shown that men has thicker skin than women. Nobody can deny that. I don't see any women go out to hunt for food. That's not their instinct.
Stone age women went out to gather berries as food. And there are many examples in the animal kingdom where the males take care of the young.
Simply, women don't want to stay at homes to be homemaker, because they can't cook, do laundry, and many more. Thus, maids come into picture. Do you see any male maids around? No. If yes, I am worried.
Yes, there are male ones. Not to cook, but to do the heavy chores. I have seen one in a super rich family in the Camden Park area near Bukit Timah.
Just because you have never seen one doesn't mean there isn't any.
First, if women want to work, they have to make sure that the house is being well taken care of by HER, not by other people. If she can't take care of her house well enough, drop the idea of going out to work. However, if women want to work, no problem with that. Men are much more happier that there is an extra income. However, the key issue is whether women can ENSURE everything is alright at home?
The extra income helps in making the house being well taken care of. Maids are there to help in the menial work. True taking care of households require more brains than brawn.
And btw, both men and women have the responsibility of taking care of a house.
Men don't do nothing at home, they do contribute to the family with household chores. You got to choose the right men.
Exactly. Having a maid helps in reducing that. The time and energy spent can be used more productively.
If you can fork out $1k more a month to save 4 hrs a day so as to be more productive, why not? A truly productive person will be able to generate that $1k within a week or less for that extra time saved.
In practical Singapore, $$ talks. Your ideals have to stand aside. It's a no $$ no talk world.
Men's role in the family: Bring $ back home(primarily), take care of the house(secondary)
Women's role in the family: Take care of the house(primarily), bring $ back home(secondary)
Wrong. Bringing back $$ is part of taking care of the house. Both men and women have it as the primary responsibility.
Try taking care of a household without any $$.
Anyway, your ancestors as a female role in the family have been doing it for centuries. Why CAN'T you? You cannot take up such challenges as a 21st century women or women in this era getting weaker? Perhaps both.
Just because ancestors do it, then modern people must do it?
Standing up to people like you is the challenge of elindra as a 21st century woman.
It's alright to engage maids at home, your children will start to treat the maids as their mums. Take care of them, feed them, bathe them and even coach them with their homeworks. What about women's position at home? You are nothing but a child bearer.
If I can employ a maid who can coach in homework, it's a boon.
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Really? Wow, I guess I should be proud that women are the ones changing the world.
I guess we are evolving faster than men according to you then, because you are still stuck in the stone ages.
Just for your reference for most countries the government (which mainly consists of men) are the ones who encourage women to work as there are not enough people out in the work force, it’s the same in Singapore. Cost of living is also up and most people cannot survive on a single income.
Responsibility change with time and need not be a gender defined role.
I can cook, do housework etc but why should I stay at home and be a homemaker? Why should I waste my parents money for giving me a good education and having a degree to stay at home? Oh yes there are male maids around or should I say male servants. The higher class ones are called Butlers. They are just not common in Singapore. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
I think in today’s age it is no longer the woman’s responsibility to take care of the house well. It has to be an equally shared responsibility especially if both parties are working. I will agree with you if the woman stays at home and does nothing and employs a maid. But not if she is working and have a career of her own.
Just for your reference in my family, the women are the ones who run the family business and not the men.
You just said it in your earlier posts that women have to make sure the husband is taken good care off, have a nice dinner for him etc and now you say find a man that can do housework :lol: make up your mind.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Standing up to people like you is the challenge of elindra as a 21st century woman.
I'm only glad that my husband doesn't think like him.Anyway I'm only in this thread only because I'm bored. I've not replied to any of these gender bashing threads for a long long time :P
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Originally posted by elindra:
I'm only glad that my husband doesn't think like him.Anyway I'm only in this thread only because I'm bored. I've not replied to any of these gender bashing threads for a long long time :P
I reply for fun only :)
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WOT~~~
WOT~~~~~
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o.k.. are we talking about real equality here.. or some conjured up concept of supposedly how and what true equality means here ? lol!
Women shouldnt work. hehe...
Being a full time housewife is already like a permanent full time job x3. Why put her through the rigors of more external work related stress ar?
Given that some responsiblities can be shared, but there must also be clear separation of responsibilities, when it involves the welfare of the children at large. Because this often leads to conflicting roles and decisions as both have very strong personalities.
Double standards, double management. Hard to work out.
The only "work" I will accept for the housewife, is perhaps a non-stress job like I dont know, something she dont have to be there and it still can operate. Or manage, e.g Holding Companies sort of work, cause she can manage the assets and future funds.
So..
No MA'AM!
National Organisation for Men Against Amazonian Masterhood !
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To: elindra
Really? Wow, I guess I should be proud that women are the ones changing the world.
Yes. You maybe right. It is the society gives you the opportunity. If not, where during you think your words stand?
I guess we are evolving faster than men according to you then, because you are still stuck in the stone ages.
The world is being created this way, so respect the truth of nature. You can't deny that.
Just for your reference for most countries the government (which mainly consists of men) are the ones who encourage women to work as there are not enough people out in the work force, it’s the same in Singapore. Cost of living is also up and most people cannot survive on a single income.
If the men don't do that, do you think you all women will be satisfied? That's one of the way to keep your women's mouth shut. Why is there not enough in the workforce? Women don't give birth to enough childen. Why? being selfish, want to work for themselves, have their own pocket $. Simple as that. Single income can work. It depends on how much the women spend on their "maintenance" fee.
Responsibility change with time and need not be a gender defined role.
I can cook, do housework etc but why should I stay at home and be a homemaker? Why should I waste my parents money for giving me a good education and having a degree to stay at home? Oh yes there are male maids around or should I say male servants. The higher class ones are called Butlers. They are just not common in Singapore. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
I am glad that you can cook and do housework. What's the quality? Is good enough? Ask your husband, he prefers his mother's food or yours? I am not trying to demoralise you. I would like to take this opportunity to encourage you to carry on and do a better job. You may be right, I don't see them in Singapore. It's not acceptable in an Asian country. Are you being Westernised?
I think in today’s age it is no longer the woman’s responsibility to take care of the house well. It has to be an equally shared responsibility especially if both parties are working. I will agree with you if the woman stays at home and does nothing and employs a maid. But not if she is working and have a career of her own.
Bear in mind, life's never fair. Don't try to strike a balance. It will never be equal. Definitely, it's both responsibility. However, women need to take up more. I have no offence on that. That's on how I personally feel. If one day, a men can do everything like household chores(with or without maid) and bringing back $. what do women do?
Just for your reference in my family, the women are the ones who run the family business and not the men.
Women can run their business. No doubt with that. Everyone can. In your family, who are the homemakers?
You just said it in your earlier posts that women have to make sure the husband is taken good care off, have a nice dinner for him etc and now you say find a man that can do housework :lol: make up your mind.
What I am trying to bring across is that has women done enough for their men? Women who need to find husbands who can do household chores, because women themselves can't do. They need MANPOWER. Fortunately, this does not apply to you, but applies to alot of SG women. Cheers for you.
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To:eagle
Yes, there are male ones. Not to cook, but to do the heavy chores. I have seen one in a super rich family in the Camden Park area near Bukit Timah.
Just because you have never seen one doesn't mean there isn't any.
Heavy chores. Cooking? No. Household chores at home? No. Look MANPOWER here. Men have to do something which women can't or don't want to do.
The extra income helps in making the house being well taken care of. Maids are there to help in the menial work. True taking care of households require more brains than brawn.
And btw, both men and women have the responsibility of taking care of a house.
It is not necessary to have maids, unless you own a big house which requires to you to mop all the floors for more than 1/2 a day.
Exactly. Having a maid helps in reducing that. The time and energy spent can be used more productively.
Yup. Spend $ on other people. Energy is depends on oneself. If women don't want to do household chores, correct their mentality. If women don't know how to, learn from their mothers, or worst send them to maid agency for on job training. If women can't even take good care of their own house, needless to say about their performance in the company.
If you can fork out $1k more a month to save 4 hrs a day so as to be more productive, why not? A truly productive person will be able to generate that $1k within a week or less for that extra time saved.
$ is important. Why you choose to spend your hard earned $ on other people? Time management is needed in this area. Education on time management for women is necessary. That 4hrs being spent on what? Shopping?Manicure?Gossiping?
In practical Singapore, $$ talks. Your ideals have to stand aside. It's a no $$ no talk world.
Wrong. Bringing back $$ is part of taking care of the house. Both men and women have it as the primary responsibility.
Try taking care of a household without any $$.
Yes $ talks, why don't you save up that sum of $? Rather than spending on the Filipino. The more $ you have, the more power you have. In conclusion, women can work, yet when they are back home, taking care of the house is their next task.
Just because ancestors do it, then modern people must do it?
Then what the modern people, is it the right way? Go along with the flow? Think about it. Use your wisdom.
Standing up to people like you is the challenge of elindra as a 21st century woman.
Yes I do agree. Elindra is just being upset for what I have said, and she don't accept the roles of women. Afterall, she's a women. Look at my 5Cs known on women.
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Heavy chores. Cooking? No. Household chores at home? No. Look MANPOWER here. Men have to do something which women can't or don't want to do.
Well, he was BBQ-ing for the CCA outing at the guy's place. Not cook?
It is not necessary to have maids, unless you own a big house which requires to you to mop all the floors for more than 1/2 a day.
Dual income allows for a bigger house.
Yup. Spend $ on other people. Energy is depends on oneself. If women don't want to do household chores, correct their mentality. If women don't know how to, learn from their mothers, or worst send them to maid agency for on job training. If women can't even take good care of their own house, needless to say about their performance in the company.
Appears that you can't understand what's the meaning of leverage.
If one can create a lot of value, one should leave the lower value jobs to others. Think about this. If everyone thinks like you, we wouldn't have corporations or businesses employing people.
$ is important. Why you choose to spend your hard earned $ on other people? Time management is needed in this area. Education on time management for women is necessary. That 4hrs being spent on what? Shopping?Manicure?Gossiping?
That's a big generalisation. 4 hrs spent on shopping, manicure? We aren't even talking about that.
One can easily earn $200 to $400 within 4 hrs. Make it $200 a day for a week and it's $1.4k. Out of that, $1k goes to the maid for the whole month to save 4 hrs everyday for a month. Work out the maths yourself.
If you can't create high value yourself, then there's no point continuing.
Yes $ talks, why don't you save up that sum of $? Rather than spending on the Filipino. The more $ you have, the more power you have. In conclusion, women can work, yet when they are back home, taking care of the house is their next task.
I didn't save up a lot, but I can tell you I can pay up 70% of a HDB BTO direct with my own hard earned cash. My gf earned enough for 50%. Ok we are both only 27 yrs old.
Mathematically speaking, the value we can create and keep per hour makes it much more worth it to hire a maid.
Then what the modern people, is it the right way? Go along with the flow? Think about it. Use your wisdom.
Use it on yourself. Ancient times, is it the right way? Why aren't you out hunting animals for food, but instead typing in this forum? Go hunt!
Yes I do agree. Elindra is just being upset for what I have said, and she don't accept the roles of women. Afterall, she's a women. Look at my 5Cs known on women.
I don't see you accepting the roles of a modern man. As I have mentioned, if you want to accept ancient roles, then you should be out hunting for food now, and have nothing to do with technology or currencies.
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Originally posted by zen_zen:
To: elindra
Yes. You maybe right. It is the society gives you the opportunity. If not, where during you think your words stand?
The world is being created this way, so respect the truth of nature. You can't deny that.
I don't have the patience to quote and unquote you so just make do with my reply in blue.
Yes society gives me the opportunity but it's made up of both men & women
If the men don't do that, do you think you all women will be satisfied? That's one of the way to keep your women's mouth shut. Why is there not enough in the workforce? Women don't give birth to enough childen. Why? being selfish, want to work for themselves, have their own pocket $. Simple as that. Single income can work. It depends on how much the women spend on their "maintenance" fee.
Responsibility change with time and need not be a gender defined role.
Really? Just the women being selfish? Wow, so typical to just blame it all on the women. I don't think I need to pull in the reasons why women were pulled into the workforce and there are more to the falling birth rates than women wanting to spend money but I don't want to waste my time on you.
Yes responsibilities change with time and apparently, you are stuck in time
I am glad that you can cook and do housework. What's the quality? Is good enough? Ask your husband, he prefers his mother's food or yours? I am not trying to demoralise you. I would like to take this opportunity to encourage you to carry on and do a better job. You may be right, I don't see them in Singapore. It's not acceptable in an Asian country. Are you being Westernised?
My husband prefers my food. That one I am 100% sure and I have had many compliments that I am a good cook. I am westernized. I'm not being westernized. I was brought up that women are in no way inferior to men. My parents treated both me and my brother equally.
Bear in mind, life's never fair. Don't try to strike a balance. It will never be equal. Definitely, it's both responsibility. However, women need to take up more. I have no offence on that. That's on how I personally feel. If one day, a men can do everything like household chores(with or without maid) and bringing back $. what do women do?
Well, women are already bringing back the money and also helping out with the household chores is what they are already doing now. It's like if we don't do the household chores and work and take up the greater part of responsibilities we are worthless from your pt of view.
What I am trying to bring across is that has women done enough for their men? Women who need to find husbands who can do household chores, because women themselves can't do. They need MANPOWER. Fortunately, this does not apply to you, but applies to alot of SG women. Cheers for you.
Good grief so now it's what women have done enough for their men? I can go into a thousand things on what men have done for their women?? But that is pointless. Seriously if you want old-fashioned, and ancient roles, please put on your loin cloth and go back out there to hunt.
I can only say I'm glad that my husband does not think like you and encourages me to stay out in the work-force and helps out around the house.
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Originally posted by elindra:
Really? How do you define a woman’s duty?
Historical gender roles no longer applies because the world has changed.
A lot of women are already earning more than their man and I know many couples who switch roles because it makes more sense for the man to stay at home to look after the kids and do the housework because the wife is earning many times more than he is.
So what you are effectively saying is that besides bringing home the bread and butter, she has to do the housework and cook for the husband too.
If this is the case, why even get married at all because you have a man at home who does nothing just because it is his “birth right” because he is born male?
There is less burden on the woman by not getting married at all in this case.
those men are a disgrace....
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Originally posted by zen_zen:
To: elindra
You may be right, however women are living and would like to live in their comfort zones. They don't wish to commit their lives as a women suppose to be. It is women's duty.
What are their topics? Great sales at which outlet? Gossping about others? Manicure/shopping/relaxing themselves/cutting down diet?
I seldom hear them say:"How can I make a better dish for my husband?" "How can I make this home be a sweet one so when my husband come back from work, he will feel great?" "How can I ease my husband's mind when he's working?" "How can I don't make my husband worry for me?"
If SG women really do household chores very hardcore, all slimming centres in SG will have to close down. Morning work, evening chores, night "engaging" activities
If you can understand chinese words, I would like to share more with you.
I hope you get reincarnated as a woman in your next life then you can dedicate your life doing all these bloody chores.Enjoy you bloody fucktard!
And wow! Women not giving birth=selfish!
You wanna try? Maybe you'll think twice about this when you feel the pain of being ripped apart during labour.
I pity your mother. She didn't bring you up well enough to respect her and women in general. I hope you won't tell her to do housework chores even when she's in her 90s.
Men like you should be culled.
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Wat the benefits a family or guys can get from an "educated and independent sg female", seems like we have to pay more and have more responsible to married a sg female. No wonder so many guys r looking for the real independent and educated female from overseas. haha
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Originally posted by zen_zen:
5Cs previously known for MEN
-CAR,CAREER,CASH,CONDOMINIUM & CARD
5CS well known for WOMEN
-CRY when they lost/feel they are losing, CURSE you when you are wrong, CALCULATE your mistakes, CONTROL all your actions & CLIMB onto your head
5Cs should be implement for WOMEN
-COMPLY to Men, CHILDREN-focus(birth,education,love & care), household CHORES, COOK delicious meals & CONTINUE to do the above mention till their last breathe
Please don't hire maids, they are an insult to women.
5cs of typical local boss/manager:
1) Curse you
2) Climb over your head
3) Chores (more work and work and work)
4) Continue (put pressure on you till you burnt out)
5) Chat (behind your back, bad mouth you)
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so which ancient hole does TS crawl out from??