Are Singaporeans Considered Native English Speakers?
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Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:
I've already booked my initial TOEFL test which would be at the end of the year.
I don't think I need to sit for the SATs, right?
i am not very sure but i thought SATs is more for the american universities??hey just hope u could give me some advices here..
as i said before, i had applied and wanted by some uk universities but i couldnt make it for their commencement date this year. Now i am currently doing degree in singapore, and with my IELTS i intend to reapply with some hope that i can get into a better uni. For UCAS, i would need to write a personal statement.
So now the question is ,
do u think i should tell them that i am currently doing a degree course in sg, but wishes to study in uk (i would quit the sg degree course once they accept me), or do think i shouldnt include that in my personal statement?
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Originally posted by DylanZuckowski:
i am not very sure but i thought SATs is more for the american universities??hey just hope u could give me some advices here..
as i said before, i had applied and wanted by some uk universities but i couldnt make it for their commencement date this year. Now i am currently doing degree in singapore, and with my IELTS i intend to reapply with some hope that i can get into a better uni. For UCAS, i would need to write a personal statement.
So now the question is ,
do u think i should tell them that i am currently doing a degree course in sg, but wishes to study in uk (i would quit the sg degree course once they accept me), or do think i shouldnt include that in my personal statement?
Indeed. But SATs is an all-rounded exam which has a Mathematics component (as well as Critical Reasoning and more). TOEFL is simply an English Language test which tests one's proficiency in that language.
You brought up IELTS. Under Yonsei UIC guidelines, I can use either the TOEFL, TOEIC or IELTS results to apply. Should I just stick with TOEFL? Or is IELTS better?
On your question, I think you should put in that you would quit your local course if they accept you in. It does show how committed you are to get into their university. I would do that, if I were in your position...
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Originally posted by Casopia-maplesea:
no LAH. u sure MEH? WHERE GOT? dont SCREW ME LAH. OI! WHAT YOU WANT?
AH.. basically this is… AH YAR! right!i dunno, but this is the standard language of students nowadays. u tell me, native language of kids nowadays is:
1.Singlish
2.Englishnot saying its any better in SE asia, in fact its worst in malaysia and indonesia. still rmb once i went to indonesia, GOD, close to everyone i talked to there didnt even understand what i was saying!
I guess the most important thing we as Singaporeans need to learn is know how and when to switch from colloquial Singapore English (or Singlish as what some say) to 'proper' English without the "lahs, lorhs, and leys".
For me, switching isn't a problem and I guess I can still speak proper English, given that I communicate with many Caucasians (with slight concerted effort in doing so) and there is no time where they (or me) make a double-take...
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Originally posted by dangerboi:
Are you stating that the origin of English is in
England? English came from Germany. Half of Britons have German
blood. You're right that Singapore isn't a native english speaking
country. However, you're wrong that english came from England.
English is actually a German language.Show evidence that it is from Germany. Show!
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Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:
Indeed. But SATs is an all-rounded exam which has a Mathematics component (as well as Critical Reasoning and more). TOEFL is simply an English Language test which tests one's proficiency in that language.
You brought up IELTS. Under Yonsei UIC guidelines, I can use either the TOEFL, TOEIC or IELTS results to apply. Should I just stick with TOEFL? Or is IELTS better?
On your question, I think you should put in that you would quit your local course if they accept you in. It does show how committed you are to get into their university. I would do that, if I were in your position...
i did a search on TOEFL few months ago and i realised that they are not regularly offered in singapore.
probably u should contact yonsei and ask them which one do they prefer.. like for example, i spoke to the international office of the uk unis and they told me to take IELTS because it is more recognized by england (since its offered by british council here) and that they wanted to know my english proficiency level.
so therefore in my case, i wouldnt go for SATs as its redundant that i do a mathematics component.
but in case u want to go for IELTS, take the "academic training" test (which is preferred for uni entrance). it will be conducted over 2 days.
and lastly Thank you for your advice! I will add that on my personal statement.
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Originally posted by gorgorlokaychyong:
Show evidence that it is from Germany. Show!
The English language is the language created by tribes that moved to Britain from West Germany around 450 AD. The Germanic languages spoken by these tribes became Anglo-Saxon, or Old English.
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Originally posted by gorgorlokaychyong:
Show evidence that it is from Germany. Show!
English is somewhat derived from German.
That's why English speakers don't find it hard to understand German as much as French. I know, because I learnt German and did not find it hard unlike French. By the way, I started learning both at the same time but I'm much more fluent at German than French. If you don't believe, go learn German. It isn't that hard to pick up, actually.
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Originally posted by DylanZuckowski:
i did a search on TOEFL few months ago and i realised that they are not regularly offered in singapore.
probably u should contact yonsei and ask them which one do they prefer.. like for example, i spoke to the international office of the uk unis and they told me to take IELTS because it is more recognized by england (since its offered by british council here) and that they wanted to know my english proficiency level.
so therefore in my case, i wouldnt go for SATs as its redundant that i do a mathematics component.
but in case u want to go for IELTS, take the "academic training" test (which is preferred for uni entrance). it will be conducted over 2 days.
and lastly Thank you for your advice! I will add that on my personal statement.
TOEFL is actually conducted regularly in Singapore under the TOEFL iBT system. There are numerous tests, but are usually taken up quite quickly and registration is limited to slots.
I understand that pursuant to a law passed in R.O.K in 2010, TOEFL/TOEIC scores are technically not allowed to be used as submission for English Language proficiency, or at least for Korean students. Anyway, I guess there is no harm in submitting more than what is required...
Thanks for your advice on IELTS. I think I'd apply for the TOEFL iBT test first, and then my SATs. I've really got a lot this semester and I think I'd be pretty stretched tight (in terms of my workload) too.
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Originally posted by gorgorlokaychyong:
Fry, do come here to update us whether your application is successful.
Wish you good luck.
Am now in Seoul to recce the different universities.
Went to Yonsei University to check out their Underwood International College entry requirements earlier today. For those that might want to consider Yonsei UIC, this is for your info. The admissions department mentioned that they accept foreign students with the qualifications of one's home country and that they do not need TOEFL/TOEIC certificates. For me as a Diploma holder, I just need to present whatever qualifications I already have (GCE "O"s, Diploma cert and CCA records).
But since I would be going in at 2014, I'm just using this as base info... Tomorrow I'm going to check out Korea University and the others...
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Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:
Am now in Seoul to recce the different universities.
Went to Yonsei University to check out their Underwood International College entry requirements earlier today. For those that might want to consider Yonsei UIC, this is for your info. The admissions department mentioned that they accept foreign students with the qualifications of one's home country and that they do not need TOEFL/TOEIC certificates. For me as a Diploma holder, I just need to present whatever qualifications I already have (GCE "O"s, Diploma cert and CCA records).
But since I would be going in at 2014, I'm just using this as base info... Tomorrow I'm going to check out Korea University and the others...
wow that's great news for u! can save up the money and time spent on the toefl. good luck on your uni application!
on my part i am glad i did the ielts. save me lots of trouble to explain and prove my english proficiency. now things just go smoothly :)
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Uhmm.....
In my opinion Singaporeans are not native English speakers.
Well, it depends on your understanding and definition of "native English speakers", but for me personally, my definition is like this.....
I believe that native English speakers should possess the underlying fundamental cultural building blocks, and the language, English, is the manifestation and crystalyzation of that culture and values, and heritage.
As such,
In my opinion only Anglo-Saxon derived nations are the true native English speakers.
The others like Singapore, India, Kenya, Nigeria, etc all the other countries that use English either due to historical reasons or economic reasons, are NOT native English speakers.
In my opinion those countries, including Singapore, are peripheral countries and peripheral speakers of English language, not the core, and will forever be second-tier periphery, because they do not have the basic fundamental building blocks to support the English language to manifest as a strong representative language which can carry their values, traditions, norms, heritage, philosophy, culture.
In other words,
Harry Potter was made by an Englishwoman author, and would have NEVER come out from Singapore.
Singapore can only scratch the surface, and sometimes mangle badly at that, such as the case with the phenomenon known as "Singlish" which is a pidgin bastardized English, but that is all that Singapore can do. It does not have the capability to perform a deep dive, and do more.
Thusly,
I conclude,
Only Anglo-Saxon countries are the real native English speakers.
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After Lee Kuan Yew dies, english must be removed as dominant language of Singapore.
I propose mandarin and malay as dominant languages.
That anglophile bastard promoted english to serve his own interests, this must be rectified after his death.
Tamil speakers do you agree or do you have other ideas?
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No comment.
Are you FCKPAP ? What happened to your old nickname ? You got banned again..?
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
Are you FCKPAP ?
No, I am not FCKPAP.
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come on....how could we be native when our heritage is not?
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
No comment.
Are you FCKPAP ? What happened to your old nickname ? You got banned again..?
bao bao....dun mix up....2 diff persons....
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What about peranakans like Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Loong? Should they be considered as native english speakers?
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Most native English speakers do not consider us as native English speakers however well you speak the language.
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Originally posted by allkosong:
Most native English speakers do not consider us as native English speakers however well you speak the language.
Not even Lee Kuan Yew?
He can speak english well. It's the only language he knows. Others are for show.
“Harry, you’re the best bloody Englishman east of Suez.”
- George Brown, Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom (1966-68) -
In my opinion if someone can soak up 100% the values, ideas, culture, traditions, of a certain cultural group, he can express the language of that culture and can manifest it as a representative tool and medium of communication; then yes in that case he is a native English speaker.
But most Singaporeans are not.
Harry Potter was written by an Englishwoman named JK Rowling.
Harry Potter would have never been written by Tan Ah Kow.
Because JK Rowling is in possession of deep and strong English language as a manifestation of her thoughts and ideas and imagination and heritage and folklore and mythology.
Tan Ah Kow would be confused because he cannot think of certain words or expressions, because even for "coffee" he is used to saying "Kopi-O" at Singapore hawker centres.
Maybe, Lee Kuan Yew is at the same level as JK Rowling.
But, Lee Hsien Loong, I doubt is at the same level as JK Rowling.
I believe only very few elderly people like those at Lee Kuan Yew's age are capable and are at the same native-level like mastery of English language.
Most people, like Lee Hsien Loong age, and below, they are already not at the same level as JK Rowling.
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
I believe only very few elderly people like Lee Kuan Yew's age are capable and are at the same native-level like mastery of English language like that.
I think those people who studied under the british colonial english schools like Lee Kuan Yew will be more thoroughly anglicised.
Under our current system, you will only produce a half fuck job.
One of the systems will have to go.
The alien one must go.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 1941:
After Lee Kuan Yew dies, english must be removed as dominant language of Singapore.
I propose mandarin and malay as dominant languages.
That anglophile bastard promoted english to serve his own interests, this must be rectified after his death.
Tamil speakers do you agree or do you have other ideas?
Tamil speakers want Tamil and the Tamil dialects.
I rather don't want Mandarin to be the dominant language of Singapore. Why Mandarin and not the true mother tongues (Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Hakka, Hainanese, Foochow etc) of the Chinese people in Singapore ?
Similarly, not only Standard Malay should be the dominant language, but should be the various Malay dialects (Minangkabau Malay, Kedah Malay, Javanese, Kelantanese, North-West Coastal Malay etc) of the Malay people whom came and agglomerated in Singapore. These then are the true mother tongue of the Malay people, not Standard Malay.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Tamil speakers want Tamil and the Tamil dialects.
I rather don't want Mandarin to be the dominant language of Singapore. Why Mandarin and not the true mother tongues (Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Hakka, Hainanese, Foochow etc) of the Chinese people in Singapore ?
Similarly, not only Standard Malay should be the dominant language, but should be the various Malay dialects (Minangkabau Malay, Kedah Malay, Javanese, Kelantanese, North-West Coastal Malay etc) of the Malay people whom came and agglomerated in Singapore. These then are the true mother tongue of the Malay people, not Standard Malay.
Not forgetting the Peranakans should use back their Peranakan language.
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Originally posted by allkosong:
Most native English speakers do not consider us as native English speakers however well you speak the language.
!!! even after the all the "live interviews" on long distance phone calls, o level certs, a level certs, sending all my essays and works to them... ... they don't care a fuck.did ielts in brit council. send the copy to them, then they got no words to say.
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Originally posted by DylanZuckowski:
wow that's great news for u! can save up the money and time spent on the toefl. good luck on your uni application!
on my part i am glad i did the ielts. save me lots of trouble to explain and prove my english proficiency. now things just go smoothly :)
I think I'm still going to do the TOEFL test anyways. The cost for me isn't the issue, the entire paperwork for the university application is, haha!
Anyways, today I managed to cover Hankuk University of Foreign Studies, Korea University and Sungkyunkwan University. The first two have a course in International Studies which is taught in English (along with Yonsei UIC, of course) while SKKU doesn't have International Studies — their closest equivalent is International Economics and the like...
Yonsei UIC doesn't require the TOEFL, and neither does Korea University. These are the two that I'm aiming for though. But they said that entrance to both Yonsei UIC and KU is by document grading, and all documents that might aid my effort would count towards it (it is under a "secret" 200 point system which no one knows how it exactly functions). So I'm going to do my TOEFL and my TOEIC anyways. I have the time too — a whole two years.